• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 13,000 members today

    Register Log In

A passing grade

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:3)

Loyal
A while back we did a thread on monergism vs synergism vs autogism.

Fancy word that simply mean 3 points of view.

pertaining to Salvation --
God does it all - monergism (Mono = God alone)
Man does it all - autogism (auto = self)
Both have a shared responsibility in the end result - synergysm. (synergy = two sources)

This is probably the biggest thing that divides the church today is these points of view.
These idealogogies are called by many names. Calvinism, Armenianism, and Wesleyism if you are inclined to attach a particular teaching to a man.

There aren't really many Christian churches that beieve in autogism. Virtually none claim to believe in it anyway.
The biggest problem with this, is if man can do it alone... what do we need Jesus for? And yet many people in the world say, I don't need Jesus because "I am a good person".
In fact this is mostly a non-Christian view.

Monogism is a big part of Calvinism. God does it all. There are different levels of Calvinism, but at the heart of it it always goes back to God does it all.
In Calvinism nothing I do really matters. None of my righteousness depends on me, All I really have to do is believe in Jesus, He does the rest.
The biggest problem with this then becomes... I can live however I want, do whatever I want, sin all I want, and I never "lose" my salvation, because none of it depends on me anyway.
Generally people who believe this, believe we are saved by grace.. "alone", and by faith.."alone". (two alones? hmmm)

There is a large part of Calvinist who would say ... well if you're doing those things you never were saved... well OK, but you're basing their salvation on their actions.. "works".
These people would say something like "if you were really saved, you wouldn't live like that". They agree that murderers, adulterers, homosexuals and child molesters
who are still doing those things are not saved. But again, you are basing their salvation on what they are doing rather than grace alone and/or faith alone.

The Bible says even the demons believe, but they aren't saved. So if it's faith alone... why aren't they saved? James 2:19;
James in chapter 2 goes so far as to say is is NOT by faith alone, but by faith and works.
Matt 7:21-23; talks about people who do things in Jesus's name (obviously they believed in Him) but yet they are not saved. Why not if it truly is grace/faith alone.
The phrase "grace alone" does not appear in the Bible anywhere, yet you hear it quoted often. The only verse in the Bible that has "faith" and "alone" in it says we
are not saved by "faith alone". ( James 2:24; )

You have parables like the sheep and the goats which seem to say... it doesn't matter if you believe in Jesus or not, if you don't help people in need you aren't saved.
Another parable is the talents, two good servants invested themselves, one lazy servant did nothing, yet all started out with something given to them.
Yet another parable says the master waters and fertilzes the tree, He comes around looking for fruit by finds none. Guess what happens to the trees that refuse to bear fruit.

John says if we say we know Jesus but don't keep His commandments you're a liar and the truth is not in you. ( 1 John 2:4; )
Jesus asks people why do you call me Lord and not do what I say? ( Luke 6:46; )
Paul says what matters is keeping the commandments. (1 Cor 7:19; )

Some people believe the teachings of Jesus don't matter anymore, yet Jesus said...
Matt 24:35; "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

Jesus's word and teachings will still matter even after the earth passes away. In fact Jesus gives the great commission.. "after" He was resurrected.

Matt 28:18; And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Matt 28:19; "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Matt 28:20; teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."


Jesus didn't just say go to Israel, He said go to ALL the nations. He didn't just say tell them to believe in Me, He said teach them to do the things I commanded.
Remember He said this AFTER He was resurrected, not before.

Jesus, Peter, James, Paul and John all say we need to keep the commandments. That's most of the apostles that wrote in the Bible plus Jesus.

.. to be continued ...
 
Loyal
There are quite a few passages about testing in the new Testament

God allows all of us to be tested.

He allowed Satan to test Job.

Satan was "allowed" to test Peter. (Peter didn't do so good on that specific test) but He made up for it later in life.

He allowed Satan to test Jesus.

...and... he allowed Satan to test Adam and Eve.

In fact most of life is a test... we are tested almost everyday.

Jas 1:2; Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
Jas 1:3; knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.

Jas 1:12; Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

IF... "if" IF... we persevere in these trials.... we can be "approved" and receive the crown of life.

1 Pet 1:6; In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
1 Pet 1:7; so that the proof of your faith , being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1 Pet 1:8; and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
1 Pet 1:9; obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

It is these tests, that "prove" our faith. The faith that "obtains the salvation of your soul".

Heb 11:17; By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;

We will all go through thousands of tests in life. These tests will reveal your heart to you and to God. (mostly us, He already knows your heart).
How we handle these tests determine where we will spend eternity.

God tells us all "don't eat of the fruit" every day. But do we do any better than Adam and Eve?

2 Cor 13:5; Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you— unless indeed you fail the test?

================================================================================================
The question was asked - why does God test us? The answer is obvious. James 1:12; and 1 Pet 1:9; give a pretty good answer.

So do we have to pass all of the tests all of the time?

It depends on who you talk to, Some believe we have to be 100% perfect. The problem with this is, it doesn't allow for grace.
Only legalism, People who believe this are right back in the old testament when there was no grace.

A teacher once told me, she had 3 kinds of students, a LOT of the first type, a LOT of the last type, but only a few in the middle.
The first type are very good students, they mostly get A's and B's. She said in 15 years of teaching, no one has ever gotten "straight A's" in her class.
The second type live on the edge, they get all kinds of grades, but mostly C's. Some try hard, but still just get C's. Some don't try hardly at all but still manage to get C's.
The last type, are usually kids that don't care and don't try. She doesn't believe any students she ever had were stupid or dumb, but she had many that didn't try or didn't care.
They of course get mostly D's and F's.

I don't think we have to get straight A's. But I don't think all F's is going to cut it either. Some teachers give students that don't care or try a passing grade anyway,
but they aren't doing these students any favors.

A basketball coach (who also was a Christian) told me something similar. My best players don't make all their shots. In 12 years of coaching, I've never had a player
that shot 100%. Most of them don't even make half of their shots. ... but they try to... and that's the secret. They try to.
They make not make all their shots, but ever they ever stopped trying, they wouldn't hardly make any of them. If they ever stopped caring, they wouldn't win many games.
He says it's easy to tell the ones that don't really care within a game or two, they don't stay on the team very long.

Maybe the test of life is simply to see if we will try. Maybe it's not about passing every test with an A.
 
Loyal
Synergism don't believe God does it "all". But it doesn't believe we can do it without God either.
It's not works alone... but it's not faith alone either. It is us trying to do the best we can.

Heb 11:7; By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
Heb 11:8; By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Heb 11:17; By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
Heb 11:21; By faith Jacob, as he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.

Heb 11:24; By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter,
Heb 11:25; choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin,
Heb 11:26; considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.

Heb 11:31; By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient, after she had welcomed the spies in peace.

By faith... Noah built an Ark, Rahab hid the spies, Abraham "sacrificed" Isaac, Moses left Egypt, etc....
Our actions are what prove our faith. The outcome of our test are what proves our faith.

1 Pet 1:6; In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,
1 Pet 1:7; so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Jas 2:22; You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

Jas 2:24; You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
 
Loyal
Matt 25:21; "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'
Matt 25:23; "His master said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful slave. You were faithful with a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.'


These two verses are identical, but the Master is speaking to two different people. "Well done!" Wouldn't we all like to hear Jesus say that to us.
But it's hard to tell someone "Well done", if they haven't DONE anything.
 
Top