A different take on being led by the Spirit and the Law

[B-A-C]

In the sermon on the mount, Jesus says many things got harder in the New Testament.

Matt 5:17; "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
Matt 5:18; "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.
Matt 5:19; "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:20; "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus says the law didn't go away. He also says the commandments still affect our position in the kingdom of heaven.
Finally He says, we have to be more righteous than the Pharisees. (not to worry, they weren't all that righteous)

Under the old testament law, it was OK to hate people, but you couldn't kill them. Under the New covenant, they amount to the same thing.

Matt 5:21; "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.'
Matt 5:22; "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Under the old covenant, you didn't always have to be reconciled with someone you havv sinned against, but under the new covenant...

Matt 5:23; "Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Matt 5:24; leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.

You're not even supposed to come to the altar until you make things right... as right as you can.
Under the old covenant, you couldn't commit adultery, but there isn't a lot said about "lust = sin" in the old testament. Under the new covenant...

Matt 5:27; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';
Matt 5:28; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matt 5:29; "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Even looking at a woman lustfully is the same thing as adultery. Something to keep in mind if you have a problem with pornography or
adult romance novels, or even most soap operas.
Under the old law you could get divorced, "If you didn't find favor" with your wife. Under the new covenant, there is only two reasons
you can get divorced, here is one of them...

Matt 5:31; "It was said, 'WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE';
Matt 5:32; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Under the old covenant, you had to keep your vows. Under the new covenant we are told not to make vows, but to keep our word (promises)

Matt 5:33; "Again, you have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FALSE VOWS, BUT SHALL FULFILL YOUR VOWS TO THE LORD.'
Matt 5:34; "But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
Matt 5:35; or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is THE CITY OF THE GREAT KING.
Matt 5:36; "Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
Matt 5:37; "But let your statement be, 'Yes, yes' or 'No, no'; anything beyond these is of evil.

Under the old covenant, if someone did something to you, you were allowed to take matters into your own hands and "pay them back".
However under the new covenant...

Matt 5:38; "You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'
Matt 5:39; "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.
Matt 5:40; "If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.

... to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

Under the old law, you could hate your enemies. Not so, under the new covenant.

Matt 5:43; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
Matt 5:44; "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Matt 5:45; so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Matt 5:46; "For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Matt 5:47; "If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Mat 5:48 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

In the old testament, when you fasted, most people wore sack-cloth and ashes, everyone knew they were fasting, but in the new testament...

Matt 6:16; "Whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do, for they neglect their appearance so that they will be noticed by men when they are fasting. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.
Matt 6:17; "But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face
Matt 6:18; so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

Under the old law, you couldn't eat certain kinds of animals and certain kinds of meat (Roman Catholics still follow some of this), but under
the new covenant God says...

Acts 10:12; and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air.
Acts 10:13; A voice came to him, "Get up, Peter, kill and eat!"
Acts 10:14; But Peter said, "By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean."
Acts 10:15; Again a voice came to him a second time, "What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy."

In the old testament you were allowed to take revenge on people who did you wrong, but in the new testament...

Rom 12:19; Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord.

There are many more passages like these, I will include more soon. But the point here is... people think when you are led by the Spirit, you aren't
under the law of the old testament, ... they are right... we are under new rules.

Gal 5:18; But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
So how do you know if you are being led by the Spirit?

Gal 5:22; But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23; gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24; Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25; If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

How do you know if you aren't being led by the Spirit?

Gal 5:16; But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
Gal 5:17; For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
Gal 5:18; But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
Gal 5:19; Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20; idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
Gal 5:21; envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

... to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

In the old testament, you were supposed to keep the 600 plus commandments of the Talmud, the Torah.
You were supposed to confess your sins to a priest, then sacrifice an animal (an expensive, perfect animal). But as long as you did that,
you could always go sin again, and then have the priest sacrifice another animal for you.

God saw right through this.

Prov 21:3; To do righteousness and justice Is desired by the LORD more than sacrifice.

Isa 1:11; "What are your multiplied sacrifices to Me?" Says the LORD. "I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams And the fat of fed cattle; And I take no pleasure in the blood of bulls, lambs or goats.
Isa 1:12; "When you come to appear before Me, Who requires of you this trampling of My courts?
Isa 1:13; "Bring your worthless offerings no longer, Incense is an abomination to Me. New moon and sabbath, the calling of assemblies—I cannot endure iniquity and the solemn assembly.
Isa 1:14; "I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts, They have become a burden to Me; I am weary of bearing them.
Isa 1:15; "So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; Yes, even though you multiply prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood.
Isa 1:16; "Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; Remove the evil of your deeds from My sight. Cease to do evil,

God doesn't want sacrifices, He wants His people to quit doing evil deeds.

Jesus said...

Matt 12:7; "But if you had known what this means, 'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,' you would not have condemned the innocent.

Many Christians are quick to point put we aren't under the Talmud anymore... and so we aren't.
But we are told to keep the commandments over a dozen places in the new testament. That's a lot more times than we are told
we aren't under the law anymore.

Matt 5:19; "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 19:17; And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Matt 22:40; "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."
Mark 10:19; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
Luke 1:6; They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.
Luke 18:20; "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
John 14:15; "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
John 14:21; "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
John 15:10; "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
1 Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
1 Thes 4:2; For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
Tit 1:14; not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.
1Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1Jn 3:22; and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
1Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1Jn 5:2; By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
1Jn 5:3; For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
2Jn 1:6; And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.
Rev 12:17; So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 14:12; Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

So it's true... if we are being led by the Spirit... "IF"... we aren't under the "old law" anymore.
But we are still under the new covenant.

 

[Sue D.]

The New Testament is God's Grace. A born-again believer Will have the Holy Spirit indwelling them and they Will have the inner desire to obey God's Word. The Ten Commandments per se will be written in our hearts.

 

[Brother-Paul]

That is the best scripture based explanation I have read on this topic B-A-C.

May the Spirit of God continue to guide you, may the readers of this thread be truly Blessed, and may God receive the Glory.

In Jesus Name Amen

 

[B-A-C]

The New Testament is God's Grace. A born-again believer Will have the Holy Spirit indwelling them and they Will have the inner desire to obey God's Word. The Ten Commandments per se will be written in our hearts.

Yes. Some things are harder, but we have more help! We have the Holy Spirit, the saints of the OT didn't have.
We have God's laws written on our hearts, which the Jews of the OT didn't have.
We have the love of Christ manifested for us on the cross. The people of the OT hadn't seen this yet.
We have grace, as long as we are repentant. The Jews of the OT have to be "perfect" or make a sacrifice.

Rom 8:3; For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,

This is what the law could not do. It could not empower us (help us) to overcome the desire to sin.

Heb 10:1; For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.

Also we don't give imperfect sacrifices done by imperfect men to God, Jesus has given the perfect sacrifice from a perfect Man (Who is also our High Priest).

 

[B-A-C]

One of the other things that changed between the covenants was circumcision.

Gen 17:10; "This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11; "And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you.

Jesus Himself was circumcised.

Luke 2:21; And when eight days had passed, before His circumcision, His name was then called Jesus, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb.

But Paul preaches adamantly against circumcision. Almost the entire book of Galatians is about this.

Gal 2:3; But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
Gal 2:7; But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised
Gal 2:8; (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles),
Gal 2:9; and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
Gal 6:12; Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.
Gal 6:13; For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.

Gal 5:2; Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Gal 5:3; And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
Gal 5:6; For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Gal 5:11; But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.
Gal 6:15; For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

1 Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

 

[Sue D.]

Circumcision Does have medical / cleanliness benefits.

 

[B-A-C]

There was a survey done here on TJ a while back about not being under the law anymore.
The question was asked, so then is it OK to lie, cheat, steal, murder, and commit adultery now?

I expected 99% or 100% of people here to say no, but (somewhat amazingly) almost half said
it's OK to do these now because "We aren't under the law anymore".

 

[newname]

There was a survey done here on TJ a while back about not being under the law anymore.
The question was asked, so then is it OK to lie, cheat, steal, murder, and commit adultery now?

I expected 99% or 100% of people here to say no, but (somewhat amazingly) almost half said
it's OK to do these now because "We aren't under the law anymore".

I have heard ppl say that too. Like even murder and you don't even say sorry and you're still saved. Uhmmmmm
Then I'm like: God first had 600 laws for the Jews but now with the gentile believers all of a sudden He's like: oh yeah sure, no problem m8. Cause some also say: yeah those things Jesus said was only for the Jews.

 

[Sue D.]

The purpose Of the law was to tell 'us' that those things were not allowed. And the Levitical laws - cleanliness laws -- etc. were to set the Children of Israel apart from the rest of the people groups around them.

We Are under grace now because of the cross. Those 10 commandments have been replace by "you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart , soul and mind. And love your neighbor as yourself."

And, it's Also true that when a person Has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior -- that the Holy Spirit comes to indwell them immediately. The inner compulsion For evil won't be there. We will no longer feel a bondage to do those things. God's Word in our hearts takes away the slavery. That does Not mean we'll no longer feel temptations To do the wrong thing. But being Tempted is not a sin. It Does mean we have a choice as to go ahead or Not to.

The Holy Spirit Does do a good job of 'pricking' our conscience. He's sort of sitting on our shoulder and telling us that we really should Not be doing 'such and such'. We will have the choice of either listening To the Holy Spirit and feeling good inside. Or Not listening and suffering the consequences of our actions. And the negative consequence Might just be a very guilty conscience that is hard to live with -- we Will want to confess our wrong doing / ask forgiveness and feel better inside. The negative consequence might be an accident that injures ourselves or others. Or a messed up relationship that might or might not be fixed.

And, it's Not okay to go ahead and sin Anyway -- OSAS gets a bad name because they feel it's simply a fire escape -- going ahead and sinning cause you're going to heaven no matter what.

 

[B-A-C]

This does defy the idea of .. grace only.

 

[B-A-C]

Then I'm like: God first had 600 laws for the Jews but now with the gentile believers all of a sudden He's like: oh yeah sure, no problem m8. Cause some also say: yeah those things Jesus said was only for the Jews.

But all of Paul's letters were to the Gentiles. (possibly Hebrews was written by him).
Paul was specifically chosen to go to the Gentiles.

Acts 9:15; But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel;
Acts 13:46; Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.
Acts 13:47; "For so the Lord has commanded us, 'I HAVE PLACED YOU AS A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES, THAT YOU MAY BRING SALVATION TO THE END OF THE EARTH.'"
Acts 15:12; All the people kept silent, and they were listening to Barnabas and Paul as they were relating what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles.
Acts 22:21; "And He said to me, 'Go! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'"
Acts 26:17; rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
Rom 11:13; But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry,
Rom 15:16; to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, so that my offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
Gal 1:16; to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood,
Eph 3:1; For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—
1Tim 2:7; For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Colossians, 1 & 2Thessalonians, Titus, 1 & 2 Timothy were all specifically written to Gentiles.

 

[B-A-C]

Paul repeated at least 9 of the 10 commandments.

Rom 7:7; What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."
Rom 13:9; For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Eph 4:28; He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with one who has need.
Eph 6:2; HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER (which is the first commandment with a promise),
2Cor 6:16; Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
1Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1Cor 6:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Eph 4:25; Therefore, laying aside falsehood, SPEAK TRUTH EACH ONE of you WITH HIS NEIGHBOR, for we are members of one another.

The only verse I could find about the Sabbath in all of Pauls writing was...

Col 2:16; Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—

1Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Thes 4:2; For you know what commandments we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus.

So even what Jesus said was only for the Jews (it wasn't).. we know for sure the things Paul said were for the Gentiles.

 

[B-A-C]

the Holy Spirit comes to indwell them immediately. The inner compulsion For evil won't be there. We will no longer feel a bondage to do those things.

This is half correct. We are no longer in bondage to sin. We don't have to sin (we do sometimes, because we choose to)
However, the desire to sin doesn't entirely go away. Show me in the Bible where it says this?

Gal 5:17; For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you want to.

Rom 7:18; For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
Rom 7:19; For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

Paul acknowledged that he still wanted to sin sometimes. He called this "walking in the flesh".

1Cor 9:27; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Even Jesus Himself had to force Himself to go against "self-will".

Luke 22:42; saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."