“Temporal Salvation!?”

[spirit1st]

It simple ? We do not always walk and live fully in our Spirit . We miss church , We do not read the bible , we do not pray . We get caught up in things of life? many reasons .
But the Bible is very clear .

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


I found if we fast so often? We will walk and live lots more in our inward man .

Jesus said we would fast after He left this world in the flesh. The disciples fasted lots .

It not taught much in churches today.

But the bible tells us we BREAK every yoke . anything that might hold us back from serving Him Perfectly .

Then we would not be sinning or doing anything that displeases our LORD JESUS.

All the answers are in the bible for us and we should share anything He has revealed to us.

Listen we hurt ourselves many times by the junk we allow to be recorded in our minds . It there until we die or leave the flesh I should say .

We make things much harder on our own selves many times?
We fill our minds with junk . Then wonder why we have all this evil thoughts.

 

[Sargento]

Spirit1st... hummm


My friend, that does not sound predestination... it sounds prediction.

Our "wiling" is a GIFT from HIM... if someone is not willing is because HE did not give it ti him...

He wants every man to be saved? Then why does HE condemn them?
Why does HE requires faith for salvation making a distinction of the believer from the non believer???

If you loved a son of yours and wanted to save him from eternal death would you do this??? Or would you save him EVEN AGAINST HIS WILL OR DOUBTS?
And if you have all the power in heaven and earth and the ability (GOD could, or couldn't HE?) to convince your son that death is a bad decision wouldn't you do it?
And is not the love of GOD for his sons far greater than ours???? If evil man would save their children no matter what how much more would GOD do? Or does HE loves us less???

The secret in this is that not all men are sons of GOD... and the word of GOD is for HIS sons.

My friend, if HE wanted to save all man HE would just save all man... what's stopping him?? ... actually, HE would not have condemn us in the first place, and that because of the sin of ONE ONLY MAN (Adam).

God is not a man my friend... HE has a plan and HE is making it happen, not just watching.

 

[Sargento]

It simple ? We do not always walk and live fully in our Spirit . We miss church , We do not read the bible , we do not pray . We get caught up in things of life? many reasons .
But the Bible is very clear .

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


I found if we fast so often? We will walk and live lots more in our inward man .

Jesus said we would fast after He left this world in the flesh. The disciples fasted lots .

It not taught much in churches today.

But the bible tells us we BREAK every yoke . anything that might hold us back from serving Him Perfectly .

Then we would not be sinning or doing anything that displeases our LORD JESUS.

All the answers are in the bible for us and we should share anything He has revealed to us.

Listen we hurt ourselves many times by the junk we allow to be recorded in our minds . It there until we die or leave the flesh I should say .

We make things much harder on our own selves many times?
We fill our minds with junk . Then wonder why we have all this evil thoughts.

Yes.. WALK... Paul is talking about conduct, and our obligation to resist the will of sin... so what my friend?

I was hoping that you answer my questions... my friend, do not get me wrong, but I'm starting to think that I'm talking alone here because I can't get no one to answer any of my questions... instead everyone rambles somewhere else.
It's ok, but that way it's impossible to discuss something effectively because we can't define a direction ... it's always changing!!

If we do not understand something or something shakes up what we consider to be the truth or our confidence we should not look somewhere else, we should explore it until understand it because we love the truth (don't we?) and want it to prevail above lie.

 

[spirit1st]

listen GOD puts Faith in All mankind so they can be saved. But It does die in some.

He made it possible for all . But we know from scripture not all accept .

Also we dwell in sin filled bodies that desire to sin . So everyone on earth sins at times.
Some sin because they like sinning. others try there best not to sin.

Listen in the first place we all lie at times. Telling stuff we believe is truth . which is not always truth.

Every child of GOD will see things differently as they grow in the LORD and Truth.

But i do believe if we could walk and live though our NEW Spirits mind ? We would not sin even in the flesh.

I know the LORD did it. But can we ? I kind of doubt any of us could live totally though our New spirits mind .

Rom_8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit,

1Co_2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


I know in my life time , to this point I have not lived 100% without sinning. Now it also true I have not lived by my Spirits thinking 100% either .Is it possible anyone other than our LORD has ? I really cannot say. But It appears Paul could not and i am sure He knew more and was closer too the LORD than I am .

This appears some may be able too ?

1Co_7:32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:

Of course Our LORD had a perfect body . NONE of us do .

 

[spirit1st]

I just want to be clear about this. I can only tell about my life since I was born again . And I have made lots of mistakes . I have argued with the LORD a few times . Thinking I knew best , when in fact I Never knew best.

I have Not lived a perfect life in my flesh mind or body.

But The Bible says we will not full fill the lust of the flesh if we live though our spirit man. And so I believe if we could live always though our Spirit mind we could live sinless lives.

But i do not know anyone or any church that obeys the bible 100% . That not too say , someone else does know people or churches are are in perfect agreement obeying the LORD 100%

 

[Sargento]

Spirit1st...

If GOD puts faith in all mankind, and what HE did for one HE also did for all so what differs one man before other so that one is saved and another one is condemn? Their own virtues? Self justice?

Well in that case, if the difference between both is their selves and their own virtues them just as the condemn owes condemnation to himself so does the saved owes salvation to himself NOT Jesus ... because what Jesus did for one HE did for all, so the difference that makes him not go to hell is himself and his virtues.

Some will be saved, and some not... if the difference is not in what God does it can only be in what men does!!! And so, consequently, man is saved by works.

Every child of GOD will see things differently as they grow in the LORD and Truth.

No, every child of GOD grows into Christ... into precisely the same understanding for all of them are guided by the same spirit not themselves individually ... that's why Paul said that "we have the mind of Christ".
That is why that whoever rejects a servant of GOD rejects GOD himself... and that's why the whoever the servants of GOD forgive GOD will also forgive, but who they do not forgive GOD does not forgive either for all of sons of GOD judge equally with the same mind.
Each and everyone of the sons of GOD thinks like GOD, however they do not yet all know the same because they're learning in the hands of Christ until Christ gives them growth until all of them are grown man like Christ himself ... that's is why all sons of GOD can understand the gospel, and they all understand the same, the TRUTH which is not subjective.

But i do believe if we could walk and live though our NEW Spirits mind ? We would not sin even in the flesh.

But i do believe if we could walk and live though our NEW Spirits mind ? We would not sin even in the flesh.

I know the LORD did it. But can we ? I kind of doubt any of us could live totally though our New spirits mind .

Rom_8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit,

1Co_2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


I know in my life time , to this point I have not lived 100% without sinning. Now it also true I have not lived by my Spirits thinking 100% either .Is it possible anyone other than our LORD has ? I really cannot say. But It appears Paul could not and i am sure He knew more and was closer too the LORD than I am .

This appears some may be able too ?

1Co_7:32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:

That is an illusion my friend... I'm sorry but you're wrong.
Just be desiring sin you have already sinned ... sin enslaves flesh so it desires sin.

Because the carnal mind {is} enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. {the carnal...: Gr. the minding of the flesh}
Romans 8:7

Of course Our LORD had a perfect body

Perfect Body??
Where did that come from??
Was HE not tempted? Did he not felt fear? DID HE NOT DIE? Perfect in what?

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as {we are, yet} without sin.
Hebreus 4:15

He had a body EXACTLY like ours... and on his flesh lived exactly the same nature that lives in ours, SIN. But like us (reborns) HE was not the flesh.

That's his precisely why HE can understands us, because HE went through the same!!! However HE was the first to reborn holy and HE now takes care of us according to HIS wisdom and the father's plan.

But The bible says we will not full fill the lust of the flesh if we live though our spirit man. And so I believe if we could live always though our Spirit mind we could live sinless lives.

Like I said before... what you could do (if it was possible - it isn't) would be to not sin IN ACTIONS, however your flesh would still be slave to sin and desire sin (WHICH IS A SIN JUST BY IT SELF)... what you do or not do has nothing to do with what you are (in this case I'm talking about your flesh).

Sure, if flesh wishes to sin and you resist is obvious that you are not doing it's will... to resist is your obligation ... however, just by wanting it (desiring sin) the sin is already consummated (like Jesus said)
Nonetheless we should bring the new creature outside e resist sin.... BUT IF WE DON'T WE ARE STILL SAVED because that is not the reason of our salvation.

But i do not know anyone or any church that obeys the bible 100% . That not too say , someone else does know people or churches are are in perfect agreement obeying the LORD 100%

Every reborn does... we are spirit like our father, not flesh, and we obey 100% without a single flaw... the son of GOD is UNABLE of sin.
Our obedience is not carnal but spiritual (just like ourselves), nor GOD want's carnal obedience which HE considers ... our god testimonial (in actions) are toward man so that no man find in us motive of scandal, not towards GOD.

But we are all as an unclean {thing}, and all our righteousnesses {are} as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Isaías 64:6


God attempts to our spirit not body, HE judges the heart not works... the value of a deed is the heart that made it ... to HIM our GOOD works are filthy rags... however they are useful unto men, so, as sons of GOD it is our duty to have a good conduct so no one has nothing to accuse us with in truth.


{This is} a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Tito 3:8


Thats what Elihu (he was wise) toth Job:

Look unto the heavens, and see; and behold the clouds {which} are higher than thou.
If thou sinnest, what doest thou against him? or {if} thy transgressions be multiplied, what doest thou unto him?
If thou be righteous, what givest thou him? or what receiveth he of thine hand?
Thy wickedness {may hurt} a man as thou {art}; and thy righteousness {may profit} the son of man.
Job 35:5-8

Our works are not for God but for man....

 

[NetChaplain]

In that case, do you now agree with me that the difference is in spirit NOT in works?

What is in the spiritual will manifest in the physical (works), that is, what we do and say reveals what and who we are; for what is in our heart (mind) will be revealed in what we say; "For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" (Matt 12:34), and what type of person we are (unregenerate or regenerate) will manifest in what we do; "For every tree is known by his own fruit" (Luke 6:44).

That which is physical does not determine that which is spiritual but reveals the spiritual, because it's that which is spiritual which determines the physical.

 

[spirit1st]

Your mixing old testament with the new.

The old was in part .The new is the fulfillment.


Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

No Christian desires sinning. We hate Sin just like our Father GOD does.

It about controlling the flesh .Filling our flesh mind with God living words.

I am not going to make excuses for you or me or anyone else. I am not going to confess we must sin. I going to confess we are trying hard not to sin.
Our words will come true in our lives.

Of course we are in the LORD [Our spirit being] and there is no sin in HIM.

our flesh is always a sinner it true. The question is ? Can we keep it from sinning ?
The answer is in GOD living word . We can accept that as truth or not?

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.


Nothing to argue about . We can agree it truth or Not?

Then the Question becomes ? Can we walk and live 100% in our spirit 100% of the time?
Then I can only tell my testimony , I have Not been able too .

It not about our flesh parts. It only about our Spirit man . How much we feed it and protect it by protecting what we allow our flesh mind to see or think or accept .

The battle field is our flesh mind.
We must be careful what we watch and listen to and live.

It records everything bad and good.

Of course Faith does not work by it self . It takes a action of some kind . Just having faith is worthless. Unless we do something to get it to work?


Jas_2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

We do two to get Salvation .
We confess with our mouth and believe in our heart [Spirit]

You know once I broke my ankle very bad . I said LORD , are You going to heal this or not? He said , You going to walk in faith or not?
I said yes LORD and had to take three very painful steps before I was healed .
It still looked bad , but was healed . I had no more pain and was able to work the next day on a roof ,that was deep pitched . I think 7/12 or 6/12 pitch

I think we agree on lots of stuff . But it ok if we do not agree in everything to me.

Gal_5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Rom_12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

He gave all faith so they could accept His free gift.

1Jn_2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

But we must accept His gospel and Him as Lord from our heart [Spirit]

He made it possible for all mankind to gain His Free salvation.

Then it up to us to reject or accept ?

2Th_3:2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

He gave it to them , they lost it some how?

Heb_11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[Sargento]

What is in the spiritual will manifest in the physical (works), that is, what we do and say reveals what and who we are; for what is in our heart (mind) will be revealed in what we say; "For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" (Matt 12:34), and what type of person we are (unregenerate or regenerate) will manifest in what we do; "For every tree is known by his own fruit" (Luke 6:44).

That which is physical does not determine that which is spiritual but reveals the spiritual, because it's that which is spiritual which determines the physical.

Chaplain...

Matt 12:34 cannot be evaluated be anyone but a spiritual man... this is not about appearance ... Jesus also said:

This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with {their} lips; but their heart is far from me.
Matt 15:8

What comes out of one's mouth can only reveal his heart to someone that is guided by the Spirit... is not the words it self because they do honor God many times although the heart does not, but a wise (the one who is guided by God) man through those words can see the heart.
What comes out of your mouth is indeed what is in your heart, but almost never is exposed.

In Luke 6:44 is talking about fruit, not works... read carefully:

For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. {grapes: Gr. a grape}
Lucas 6:43-44

If fruits are actions is this true?

Haven't you seen bad men doing good deeds (even bad man loves their children at least), or have you never seen good men doing bad deeds (everyone sins everyday)??? So how can it be that a good tree cannot bring forth a corrupt fruit???

My friend, just like the new creature (the son of GOD) is spiritual, so is the tree and so is the fruit.
Christ is talking as almost always spiritually.


If fruits are actions which of these two is a good tree?

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men {are}, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess (Christ did not say it this was a lie).
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as {his} eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified {rather} than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Luke 18:10-14

If fruits are actions was Paul a good a good tree?

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 7:25

And Peter when denied Jesus 3 times?

My friend, are you reading and considering what I say and have been explaining? It's starting to seem you don't.
FRUITS ARE NOT ACTIONS.

 

[NetChaplain]

Haven't you seen bad men doing good deeds

I think we might be misunderstanding one another as you mentioned. The above quote concerns what I've stated, unbelievers cannot do good deeds which can be a benefit to themselves. One cannot love as Christ loves without Him, confirming what Paul said, that there's nothing good one can do for self if it's not out of a godly love. (1 Cor 13:3)

 

[spirit1st]

The bible talks about fruit in different way ?

But the fruit of God spirit which we all have in our spirit is this .

Gal_5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Rom_8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

 

[Sargento]

I'm going to answer three post in this one and I expect your answers to my questions.

Spirit1st...

You did not answer my question:
If GOD puts faith in all mankind, and what HE did for one HE also did for all so what differs one man before other so that one is saved and another one is condemn? Their own virtues? Self justice?

Your posts suggests that this is what you believe... is it?

I saw all your post and we have many things to talk about... I even started to answer it but then I erase it all...we will get there, but to avoid enormous and endless posts lets keep it simple, one thing at a time because I've been answering and explaining many of you questions and bible quotes but have not been having much of you regarding to my questions.
We will talk about everything you've posted, but one thing at a time...

I've asked you a simple question ... you can of course quote verses but I want to hear FROM YOU...i 'm not asking for verses, just you understanding of God.



NetChaplain...

I think we might be misunderstanding one another as you mentioned. The above quote concerns what I've stated, unbelievers cannot do good deeds which can be a benefit to themselves. One cannot love as Christ loves without Him, confirming what Paul said, that there's nothing good one can do for self if it's not out of a godly love. (1 Cor 13:3)

You have not been answering any of my questions.

I have been trying to make you aware of your error, and you have not given me any feedback... just quotes from the bible which I have been explaining one by one... will you start do answer me or do we have to go through all the Bible verse by verse first?
I do not mean to be rude but I see no other way of getting your attention... why do you run from answering me?




Spirit1st...

The bible talks about fruit in different way ?

But the fruit of God spirit which we all have in our spirit is this .

Gal_5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Rom_8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Yes.. the fruit is IN OUR SPIRIT, not in our flesh....
Gal 5:22 - Do those things live in your flesh? See Romans 7:18 .
Rom 6:22 - Is your flesh free from sin? Or enslaved by sin? See Romans 7:25 .
Rom 8:23 - What is the current state of the body then? If it will be redeemed how do you think it is now? See Romans 7:24 .

I ASK YOU BOTH, NETCHAPLAIN AND SPIRIT1ST:

Jesus said the good tree CANNOT deliver a bad fruit ( Matt 7:18 )... but Paul said that he could not do good, evil however he could and would ( Romans 7:19 ).

ARE THESE FRUITS WORKS?

 

[spirit1st]

If GOD puts faith in all mankind, and what HE did for one HE also did for all so what differs one man before other so that one is saved and another one is condemn? Their own virtues? Self justice?*

2Th_2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


2Ti_2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

I believe some love darkness they hate the truth .

We plant seeds of truth . That our works . That why our LORD said ? there works do fellow .

Meaning even after we leave these bodies , the seeds we planted in others will grow in some.

Rev_14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.


Works many churches preach may not even be of GOD?

Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Joh_6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[Sargento]

If GOD puts faith in all mankind, and what HE did for one HE also did for all so what differs one man before other so that one is saved and another one is condemn? Their own virtues? Self justice?*

2Th_2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


2Ti_2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

I believe some love darkness they hate the truth .

We plant seeds of truth . That our works . That why our LORD said ? there works do fellow .

Meaning even after we leave these bodies , the seeds we planted in others will grow in some.

Rev_14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.


Works many churches preach may not even be of GOD?

Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Joh_6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Is this you answer to my question Spirit1st?
I can't see no answer here TO MY QUESTION, just rambling ...

It's a simple question Spirit1st- to who do saved people owe the difference that makes them not condemned like the ones that are condemned?

 

[spirit1st]

It appears You must have a different answer to these two questions ?

You appear to reject the ones I have shown as truth ? Then reveal the ones You have accepted as Truth ?

 

[spirit1st]

I thinking maybe Your mind not the same as the LORD mind / Maybe your only seeing what you want to see and even them Not sharing it with us/

These answers were as i see it . Not trying to make you or anyone else believe anything. All I can do is reveal what i believe to be truth .

Hope you find what your looking for ?

 

[Sargento]

Spirit1st, I cannot draw any conclusion from your "answer"... I still don't know where you're at concerning to what I've asked.

I'm not asking for truth or lie, I'm not saying you're right or wrong (yet) because you have not even taken a side ... you have not assumed anything yet... If I can't have an answer I can't say that it's right or wrong, truth or lie!!
You showed me quotes and some comments, but what does it have to do with what I've asked you???

If you consider that an answer at least make a conclusion so I can understand where you're at.
The question is:

Since you say that God gave faith to all man and made no exceptions to who do saved people owe the difference that makes them not condemned like the ones that are condemned?

THE QUESTION IS "TO WHO?".

 

[james1523]

The bible talks about fruit in different way ?

But the fruit of God spirit which we all have in our spirit is this .

Gal_5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Rom_8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Amen, the word fruit is used to mean different things in scripture. It can mean the human virtues (loev, joy, peace etc) which result from the Holy Spirit in our life. Fruit can refer to the visible result of our Christian work (namely, those individuals who are saved or built up in Christ as a result of our Christian work), and re: "first-fruits", we ourselves are like fruit to God, that He can pick,"eat" and enjoy (c.f. Jesus cursing fig tree).

 

[spirit1st]

Listen Sarg . I believe the bible and I do not care about our carnal thinking. I reveal what i believe the scriptures mean and try to reveal the best scriptures to reveal the truth .

It appears No answer i post is anything you understand or accept as Truth or can see ?

It ok with me if you feel I am not answering your question. because in my eyes I have !

Why are you here and what not reveal what you think about life and scriptures and the things you feel you understand or would like to share with others?

 

[NetChaplain]

That's okay Sarg, we just do not understand one another enough to correspond for now. I do just want to include this passage though: "I will show you my faith by works" (Jam 2:18). This is not intending to produce faith by works, but manifest faith by works, because "faith without works is dead" (non-existent faith). Thus, faith will produce works--no works, no faith. (every ant produces work)

God's blessings to your Family!