“Temporal Salvation!?”

[james1523]

Hello James, your reply is most welcome, I do appreciate your civilized replies.

You did state the following in post # 36.

"Hello DHC. If we are being honest we must admit that there is no sense of losing eternal salvation,
or being cast into the lake of fire for eternity in these passages. That it refers to these things is only
your man-made assumption."

I have made no assumption James, my reading is the simple literal reading.

Galatians 5:7
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

The key words are 'severed' and 'fallen'. Severed means a separation or disconnection.
If you have been severed from Christ then you are no longer in relationship with Christ.
It is a warning James, very abrupt and strong language.

Your assumption is that God conducts an unconditional election!

The scripture declares an election with personal and corporate provisions!

But severed and seprated and disconnected from what DHC? Where is the passage that says this results in them being "unborn again", losing the Holy Spirit joined to their spirit, losing their status as sons and daughters of God, being cast into the lake of fire with the devil and his angels. This is a case of believers being led astray by false teachers, having begun in the Spirit but trying to be perfected by their own efforts, apart from the Spirit. It is a yoke of bondage they have been entangled by, indicating these are genuine believers led astray into finishing their Christian life by their self-effort. According to 1 Corinthians this is building with straw, hay, stubble, but the foundation of Christ remains.

I do believe it is no longer in fellowship with Christ, not relationship. This is proved by the fact that Paul refers to them as brothers and sisters and children of God. If relationship was at all broken Paul would not have referred to them as brethren or children of God.

What part about God saving us because of what Christ did on the cross is not unconditional election?

There is no middle ground - either we are unconditionally elected based upon what Christ did alone (and no merit of our own), or we are conditionally elected based upon what Christ did and we did , in which case we may boast in our good actions which saved us.

We have an unconditional personal and corporate relationship based upon God's unconditional love in Christ Jesus, BUT with conditional fellowship. If we have children, they are always our child no matter what they do or don't do. Just because your child may not talk to you anymore, doesn't mean they are not your child in essence.

 

[Sargento]

HI Chaplain...

By conduct I mean actions or works... and the duty of the regenerated is to resist sin, but his flesh is still under the nature of sin.

Chaplain, there's what we ARE and what we DO... they are different things and sometimes Paul (as others) is talking about the first, and sometimes about the second...
What we ARE is what GOD does, what we do is our duty.



2Cor3:18
"But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit. "

- It's not our works that reveal the glory of GOD, it is our spiritual growth, the inner man (the son of God) ...the glory is in the spiritual man which is the image of Jesus... what weak glory that would be if it was our deeds... he is not talking about DEEDS here, he is talking about SPIRIT, the regeneration which creates sons to the image of God that understands all and knows good from evil (natural man can't).
Not works...



Rom6:12
"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey the lusts thereof: "

- His talking about DEEDS here... we SHOULD not let sin take hover what we do...however the body is his slave (nature).... Paul here is talking about what we DO :



Gal 5:17
"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary the one to the other; that ye may not do the things that ye would. "

Yes, it talks about the carnal nature... but that carnal nature is in our body not in the reborn spirit... that other will exists not in the new creature (the regenerated) but in the body that is still slave of it like we see many times described on the bible.


Rom 6:6
"knowing this, that our old man was crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be done away, that so we should no longer be in bondage to sin; "

Now, here he is talking about the WORK OF GOD in us, not our deeds... in our spirit (the reborn ones) that as already happened, but in the body that will only happen on the last day where death will be finally destroyed, until that it still lives on the body like once lived on our spirits too.

If we already had been regenerated on our bodies we would never sin again because no newly reborn desires to sin... or do they?... but has we see, a fight exists and as long as the sin lives on our body this fight will last... and no matter how many times we loose or win battles, the live in the spirit will always untouched and saint and pure for it is Christ HIM self.

But like I already said before my friend Pauls explains it in detail on the chapter 7 of Romans...

 

[Sargento]

You are very easy to understand, and I had no problem reading your English.
And I agree with you. To those on the "outside", it may seem like a prison...but to us who have been Born Again, it is a love-relationship between servant and Master.

The only thing I was trying to point out is that if we do not remain in a healthy relationship with Christ, if we do not live a lifestyle of repentance from our sin, if begin to fall away from God (something that doesn't not happen right away OR very quickly...sometimes we don't even REALIZE it!), we are not bound against our will to remain in Him. The Scripture that DHC pointed out is quite clear that Paul is very concerned for the Christians' relationships with God. If there was no way for us to fall away or be severed from Christ, then why would there be ANY urgency? Why would we need to read our Bibles, or pray, or grow, and so forth?

I'm not saying we can "lose" our Salvation, but that we can let ourselves grow cold, lukewarm, hard-hearted...thus, severing ourselves from God. IF we do not stay in a healthy relationship with Him. We can't lose it, because no one can take it away from us...but we of our own choice could give it back, or reject it even after accepting it. And I'm not talking about someone who is unstable and wavering in and out...I'm talking about the person described in Hebrews 6, who had the experience and the Holy Spirit and everything, yet chose to reject it. That person severs himself from Christ, with no possible way to come back to repentance. The Apostle Paul would not have told us this if it were not true.
It should be the desire of every Christian to enter into and remain in a love relationship with Christ as our "husband" and we as His "bride". But Satan is still here, and he is still working on us, using the weakness of our flesh to deny Christ and turn away from Him. That is why we should be careful for false doctrines and false teachers and the cunning traps of the Deceiver and the wolf in sheep's clothing, etc....why else would we need to watch out for that?

Honestly, I am of the opinion that, just as we can not begin to understand much less explain the Trinity of God, we can not fully know or understand everything about God and His Salvation, try as we might. But this (what I've said) is what I see from the Scripture.

Hi Blackbear...

Thank you for the "english" feedback.... i try my best.... this next is from the phone so it might come out worse (no google translater)!

About Paul... my friend, the duty of the minister is to correct the church..... not because they can loose salvation, but because the church is here with a purpouse, and if a member starts to forget what is he here for God's discipline will soon came on him, not for death but for correction because he is God's son.

We do not NEED to read the bible or pray so we can be saved.... salvation cames from grace, not sacrifice, but we are here to learn and in fact we naturaly desire to know God.... and if for some reason we get out of path He will bring us back because we are His, however that is not what makes us saved or not but onp His grace.

And like i said no son of GOD is can deny Him, not in his heart.... he can in his actions driven by fear or some other carnal motive (like peter did 3 times) but NEVER in his heart.... that is NOT POSSIBLE... if someone turns away after accepting Christ that only shows that he never was reborn or really accepet HIM.

Remeber the man in Corinthians that slept with his mother? Didn't Paul said that he would suffer in the flesh for that but that his spirit would be saved in the day of the lord?

Works have nothing to do with salvation.... but exortation produces fear in the sons of God (not everyone) and that's why Pauls is constantly telling them to be carefull and to test them selves so that they can see their weak spots (in knowledge of God that produces safety in our hearts) and grow.... not because they could loose something that was not won by them but given when they were still sinners.... aand if He loved us when we were sinners and sons of the devil how much more does He loves us now that we are His sons? If He gave His only son for us when we were naturally his enemys will He abaneon us now that we love Him?

To say that we can loose salvation is to not know the love of our God.

 

[NetChaplain]

It's not our works that reveal the glory of GOD, it is our spiritual growth

Hi Sarg - I believe the primary indicator concerning our level of maturity in the life of Christ is in our yielding to the Spirit, in allowing Him to have His way with us (Rom 8:13) and as this is seen in our lives, it glorifies the Father (Matt 5:16).

 

[Sargento]

Balckbear....

Another exemple:

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 KJVA

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.


In this chapter Paul says that they should be awake because they are sons of light and not sleep like sons of the night (which shows us that being son does not depend on conduct) but than says that we will live with Christ wether we are awake or sleeping.... its our duty, not condition...

 

[B-A-C]

It is possible, that even after you receive faith, it could be lost and your salvation was in vain?

1 Thes 3:5; For this reason, when I could endure it no longer, I also sent to find out about your faith, for fear that the tempter might have tempted you, and our labor would be in vain.

Those in Matthew 7, that cast out demons "in his name". Where did they get the power to do this? Did Satan give them the power. According to Jesus, Satan doesn't fight against himself. ( Matt 12:24-28; )
Did they have the power to do this themselves? I don't think so, read what happened to the sons of Sceva in Acts 19 when they tried to cast out a demon.
So then, if this power came from God, why would he say "I do not know you"?

Gal 4:9; But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?
Gal 4:10; You observe days and months and seasons and years.
Gal 4:11; I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

Paul says if the Galations turn back the the things of the world, his labor would have been in vain.

Why are we told over and over again in the New Testament, be alert, be sober, be watchful. Be careful how you walk. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

All of those verses seem to be the opposite of "you're saved, do whatever you want".

 

[NetChaplain]

"which shows us that being son does not depend on conduct"

I agree that God's grace is unconditional, because the conduct only evinces the grace. If one is born of God, He will be working in the believer and this working will eventually be manifest, as conformation of Christ's life is progressively maintained by God (Phil 2:13).

 

[Sargento]

Hi Sarg - I believe the primary indicator concerning our level of maturity in the life of Christ is in our yielding to the Spirit, in allowing Him to have His way with us (Rom 8:13) and as this is seen in our lives, it glorifies the Father (Matt 5:16).

NetCaplain, my friend...

I cannot agree with you because you take most of Pauls sayings the wrong way....

What Paul is saying in Rm8:13 is the oposite of what you understood.... he is saying that we do not live in a carnal way, in another words, we do not judge by works... we do not consider ourselves or any other person more or less mature in Christ by their conduct...

WE ARE NOT DEBTERS TO THE FLESH.

If we try to get closer of Christ by flesh (works) we shall recieve death, but if we are spiritual and guided (has nothing to do with "allowing " God... if HE rellied on our permition HE would never had saved us) by HIS spirit we no longer go to Him with works or anithing else that comes from flesh....

My friend, I do not know if you've read everything I wrote cause you did not give feedback of all (which I notice but for now did not find it important) but I ask you to read everything carefully and not ignore nothing (Don't get me wrong my friend, I'm not sayng you ignore me).... its just that I have been trying to answer to everithing you say, but you have been "jumping" from verse to verse my friend.... I never get to know were you're at after my answers.


Mtt5:16 Our light should shine so they can see our good works.... what is our good works and what is our light through which they can see our good works?
Jesus is talking about spreading the gospel so that man (regenerated) can see our good works.... because to unregenerated man we only bring death not good works... But like Jesus said, only by this light they can see our good works, without the light they cannot... or do you think that our light is ou works?

The light that we recieve and were we are are good works?

Its about taking Jesus to others so that they reborn and can see God in us and not just man... because no one can recognize a servent of God unless he is reborn..

 

[NetChaplain]

NetCaplain, my friend...
I cannot agree with you because you take most of Pauls sayings the wrong way....

What Paul is saying in Rm8:13 is the oposite of what you understood.... he is saying that we do not live in a carnal way, in another words, we do not judge by works... we do not consider ourselves or any other person more or less mature in Christ by their conduct...

Sarg my beloved Brother - I believe your intents to be sincere and appreciate your manner of address. Though it's difficult for any two Bible-Christians to share accurately what we intend on the internet, it's always worth attempting to understand one another, due to the great value of sharing beliefs, which is fellowship in the Word and is also which the Spirit is highly active in between believers.

I believe many believers misunderstand the contrast Scripture uses to know the difference between regeneration and unregenerate. The mistake is conceiving the contrast is between a carnal Christian and a spiritual Christian, as in the Romans 8 passage, which depicts an unregenerate (live after the sinful nature) and a regenerate (live after the Spirit). Very seldom does Scripture address the differences between a carnal "babe in Christ" (1 Cor 3:1) and one who is mature in Him (Heb 5:14), so nearly all the comparisons are between the saved and the unsaved.

Another similar example is Romans 8:6, which depicts evidences of an unregenerate, which is one who is still "carnally minded." This is not the same as a carnal "babe in Christ" because remaining "carnally minded is death" (v 6) and a believer is no longer under the curse of death (eternal death).

A believer is still carnal in whatever degree because nobody can be completely free of sins affect (indwelling "old man"), but to be carnally minded means to live after the sinful nature, which one born again will not do. All believers are being conformed at varying levels, which given enough life-time would mature in the "image of Christ."

 

[NetChaplain]

To further identify my beliefs, the following material is the basis for all of my doctrinal concepts:

"The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ." (Miles J Stanford, "None But The Hungry Heart", page 25)

 

[Sargento]

Sarg my beloved Brother - I believe your intents to be sincere and appreciate your manner of address. Though it's difficult for any two Bible-Christians to share accurately what we intend on the internet, it's always worth attempting to understand one another, due to the great value of sharing beliefs, which is fellowship in the Word and is also which the Spirit is highly active in between believers.

I believe many believers misunderstand the contrast Scripture uses to know the difference between regeneration and unregenerate. The mistake is conceiving the contrast is between a carnal Christian and a spiritual Christian, as in the Romans 8 passage, which depicts an unregenerate (live after the sinful nature) and a regenerate (live after the Spirit). Very seldom does Scripture address the differences between a carnal "babe in Christ" (1 Cor 3:1) and one who is mature in Him (Heb 5:14), so nearly all the comparisons are between the saved and the unsaved.

Another similar example is Romans 8:6, which depicts evidences of an unregenerate, which is one who is still "carnally minded." This is not the same as a carnal "babe in Christ" because remaining "carnally minded is death" (v 6) and a believer is no longer under the curse of death (eternal death).

A believer is still carnal in whatever degree because nobody can be completely free of sins affect (indwelling "old man"), but to be carnally minded means to live after the sinful nature, which one born again will not do. All believers are being conformed at varying levels, which given enough life-time would mature in the "image of Christ."

NetChaplain...

Sorry for the delay but I do not always have the time... by the way, at weekends I almost never have the time, so if someone addresses to me friday I will probably only reply on the next Monday.

Friend, the differences between a reborn and a natural man are in the understanding which comes from faith... read again more carefully all the passages that you've quoted...

Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

(what is in Christ? Flesh? Works?)


1 Corinthians 3:1
1 But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.

(Little reborn who do not yet understand the difference between good and evil, and are not prepared to understand the wisdom of God other than the basics - the grace of Good)


Hebrews 5:14
14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

(The same as above - solid food is what? Great works? Or the wisdom of the word of God?)



Paul's always talking about the spirit and their understanding NEVER their actions... and in their spirit every regenerated is perfect, a son of God which cannot desire sin and naturally can only desire good, however is is still learning what is evil and what is good...
...when Jesus said "if the SON releases you, you will be truly free" was HE lying? Of course not... but was HE talking about actions or our spirit?... well our actions is obvious that are not free because we sin every day of our life, reborn or not reborn.
No reborn is carnal... he may yet be small and a child (in spirit - the new creature) and have no understanding of good and evil which can lead him to BEHAVE like a carnal and look like one (and thats when a minister should correct him), but no part of him (we are the spirit, not the body) is carnal.


My friend, you have been "jumping" from verse to verse and I have been explaining them all... this is no problem but does not lead to an understanding nor it can because this way we never define anything ... I will now ask you one question and hope that you answer me about what I ask, not other parts of the Bible.

I have been trying to show you that conduct is not a faithful witness to our faith and has nothing to do with being regenerated... what regeneration does to a man is in his spirit not in his body... the transformation is interior not exterior.
Of course the reborn WISHES to do only good (it is his nature now) but he does not always have the power or capacity to do it... but in spite of serving in with is body (like any unregenerate) his spirit serves God... the diference is that the reborn does not accepts that behavior... and in spite of having it (just like any sinner) it comes not from him (the new creature - the spirit) because he is no longer carnal... he sins because God did not give him the power to resist (to teach him) the force that sin has over flesh, but it does not comes from the son of God, and when he sins (by actions) it was by weakness and never by desiring sin....

That is the difference between a reborn and a natural man.

Isn't that (what I've explained above) what Paul is teaching us in Romans 7 ? That a reborn can still serves sin with flesh while serving God with his spirit?
Did he not give that same testimony about himself? And does that mean that he was not mature in Christ????

I think I have some messages from other users to reply but I can't now... I will reply later.

 

[NetChaplain]

Isn't that (what I've explained above) what Paul is teaching us in Romans 7 ? That a reborn can still serves sin with flesh while serving God with his spirit?
Did he not give that same testimony about himself? And does that mean that he was not mature in Christ????

We may be semantically at the same conclusions but having difficulty expressing it. To me the issue isn't being mature but moving towards it, by the Spirit. There will continue to be works of the "old man" (Adamic nature) but the difference now for the believer is that it's never agreeable with his desire, which is what Paul meant by "bringing me into captivity"--against his will, unlike an unregenerate which is agreeable to his will.

 

[spirit1st]

The question is ? If Christ is formed in YOU ? What does this mean ?
If our new spirit He makes us is like our LORD JESUS ? Then How could it sin?

Gal_4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

1Co_2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


2Pe_1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Our new creature , new spirit is made perfectly in the image and nature of our LORD JESUS .

If Our LORD JESUS could sin ? Then of course we too [our spirit] could sin also . But we see clearly our LORD could not sin. He was tempted in all points . Yet without ever sinning. That the creatures He God wants to share His kingdom with and be His family and sons and daughters .

The elect .

Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col_3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:


1Jn_3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
2Co_4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

The inward man is our New Spirit being.


1Pe_3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

Hidden man is our New spirit being He makes those willing to follow Only HIM.

2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Gal_6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

New creature is our New spirit being He makes us

Rom_8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit
He sees if we have the same type mind as our LORd in our Spirit or Not?

Of course at salvation we are just New Born babies as any New birth is . It lacks maturing .


He saw it all at the beginning and knew He would allow all this evil in order to gain a family made like our LORD JESUS to share His vast kingdom with .


Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

He has so much for us . Far beyond anything any of us could dream or even think ?

1Co_2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

This is all so vast and wonderful . None of us can fully understand nor see it all .

 

[NetChaplain]

If our new spirit He makes us is like our LORD JESUS ? Then How could it sin?

Our new creature , new spirit is made perfectly in the image and nature of our LORD JESUS .

Hi S1st - I'm in close agreement here concerning the "new man" which is the believer in his new nature, which is created after Christ (Col 3:10). This is that new part of the believer that "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9), which is the "seed." Because we also still have our "old man" or sinful, nature we will still sin, but not like before--willingly--but rather as, "bringing me into captivity." Before our rebirth, we served sin willingly and without "delighting" in God's will. After rebirth the believer serves sin against his will and serves God with delight (Rom 7:25).

 

[spirit1st]

Our old spirit . the old man is nailed to HIS cross ,Bone forever more. But we still have those old thoughts in our flesh mind . That why our flesh mind must be renewed . Meaning those bad thoughts must be replaced with GOD living words.

Now it is true our flesh nature is sin full . But though our spirit our New creature we can control it and use it for His glory .

Rom_6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Eph_4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Col_3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

Rom_1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son

Rom_8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
It our New creature , New spirit that is the perfect child of GOD . But we still dwell in this weak flesh body .

Eph_2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

It a daily job keeping this weak flesh under control .
That why Paul said I die daily to the flesh . It like taking care of a child ? Always wanting something or needing something .

It almost a full time job .
I LOVE you brother and pray the LORD gives You wisdom and understanding and you walk in your spirit and HIS power .

 

[NetChaplain]

It like taking care of a child? Always wanting something or needing something . It almost a full time job .
I LOVE you brother and pray the LORD gives You wisdom and understanding and you walk in your spirit and HIS power .

I like what you said here. Love too Brother and God's blessings to your Family!

 

[Sargento]

We may be semantically at the same conclusions but having difficulty expressing it. To me the issue isn't being mature but moving towards it, by the Spirit. There will continue to be works of the "old man" (Adamic nature) but the difference now for the believer is that it's never agreeable with his desire, which is what Paul meant by "bringing me into captivity"--against his will, unlike an unregenerate which is agreeable to his will.

Well, you didn't really answer what I asked ... but it's ok.

In that case, do you now agree with me that the difference is in spirit NOT in works?
And that conduct have NOTHING to do with the new creature or with being reborn because conduct is not a real testimonial of one's faith, and that the exterior does not shows the interior (although we should try to bring the inside out)?

It's true that we SHOULD have a good conduct, we should try for it, if anyone should thats us (christians - saved ones - regenerated ones) because we now understand, because we now are alive and can see what the world can't, but even if we don't, even if we live our entire life in sin (works) without a single good deed that does not touch our faith or salvation ( which are GIFTS, not achievements ) and that does not mean that we are not regenerated... that's not where the regeneration is (the outside - conduct - appearance).

Do we agree?

 

[Sargento]

The question is ? If Christ is formed in YOU ? What does this mean ?
If our new spirit He makes us is like our LORD JESUS ? Then How could it sin?

Gal_4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

1Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

1Co_2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


2Pe_1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Our new creature , new spirit is made perfectly in the image and nature of our LORD JESUS .

If Our LORD JESUS could sin ? Then of course we too [our spirit] could sin also . But we see clearly our LORD could not sin. He was tempted in all points . Yet without ever sinning. That the creatures He God wants to share His kingdom with and be His family and sons and daughters .

The elect .

Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Col_3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:


1Jn_3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
2Co_4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

The inward man is our New Spirit being.


1Pe_3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

Hidden man is our New spirit being He makes those willing to follow Only HIM.

2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Gal_6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

New creature is our New spirit being He makes us

Rom_8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit
He sees if we have the same type mind as our LORd in our Spirit or Not?

Of course at salvation we are just New Born babies as any New birth is . It lacks maturing .


He saw it all at the beginning and knew He would allow all this evil in order to gain a family made like our LORD JESUS to share His vast kingdom with .


Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

He has so much for us . Far beyond anything any of us could dream or even think ?

1Co_2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

This is all so vast and wonderful . None of us can fully understand nor see it all .

Hi Spirit1st...

Do you believe in election and predestination?

 

[spirit1st]

Do you believe in election and predestination?

Yes of course He saw it all before He Created the foundations of the earth . the planets that hold us in place.

But He using us to try to get many more to accept His Free gift of salvation . His will is none perish .
still we know from scriptures for sure some will be put in the lake of fire.

2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

He loves mankind . He knows what He can make us to be , if we are only willing?

I was willing. that why my New creature has eternal life. But My flesh is still a sinner , I need to control .

still Salvation is not based on our works . No matter how hard er try ? We will not live in perfect sinless lives. Still we must make that effort if we really LOVE our Lord and hate sin.

That why we are never too look down on others . We are no better . God said ? If we break one law we have broken All.
how then can any person in the flesh think they are better than another ?

Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

I believe we have all been guilty of this . I am sure i have.

2Co_10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

Now i make a effort to not do this. I doubt i do perfect at even this ?

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I not standing up for Sin . I hate sin. I try hard not to ever sin . But i do from time to time.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul knew how hard it was to never ever sin in any way. It takes a daily effort to not sin in thinking or action. But listen , all sin begins in our minds and many times we might not even know we sinned?

It does not have to be sex. It can be a car or home or money or something some one has or we see ? anyway , this is just the way i see it .

 

[Sargento]

Now it is true our flesh nature is sin full . But though our spirit our New creature we can control it and use it for His glory .

Can you control the flesh's nature Spirit1st?

If you can control it, and do not desire to sin, why do you sin every day of your life (like any man does)?
If you do not want to sin, and you can avoid it, why do you do it?

My friend, you cannot control it...

In Rm 6:6 Paul is talking about the spiritual man, because in our spirit we were regenerated and IN OUR SPIRIT we do not serve sin... but in our flesh we do, the flesh is a SLAVE to the sin... that's Paul's conclusion in these explanation at the end of chapter 7...
What Christ gave us was the power to not serve sin IN OUR SPIRIT not in our flesh.... better yet, HE gave us the incapacity to serve sin in our spirit so we could be perfect and saint and really pure like HE is.

Tell me my friend, if that's the gift of Christ (power over sin in the flesh - control of our actions) why do we see atheists and others that do not believe in Christ with so much self control?
Many times they have far better self control of their conducts than any Christian and do good deeds all of their lives... does that mean that they are reborn in spite of being non believers? Of course not....
It would be good if many true Christians had the same self control over sin has many unbelievers do... THAT IS NOT what Christ gave us.
Think about this...

No my friend, we do not serve sin in the same place where we were regenerated... IN SPIRIT not in the flesh... this is what paul refers in Rm 6:6, spirit.

This is the slavery of the Christian's spirit » he DESIRES GOD with all of his heart... he is a slave of Christ because his nature is constrained (CANNOT SIN) to Christ's nature.

This is the slavery of the Christian's flesh (and the unregenerate flesh AND SPIRIT) » it DESIRES SIN with all of his heart ... he is a slave of sin because his nature is constrained (CANNOT DO GOOD) by the sin's nature... the only thing that stops him from doing worse (the unregenerate) is consciousness of good and evil given to men (residing in flesh along with sin) in Eden that tell's him "that's right" and "that's wrong" and causes him to want to hide his true nature ... if it wasn't for this knowledge man and animals would have no difference in behaviour because apart from this difference there's no difference between the natural (the unregenerate) man and an animal... they are the same.

However sometimes God gives us the power to overcome sin, but all in HIS time according to HIS will and plan for our teaching from the father that loves us by the hand of HIS son, our older brother Jesus that guides us through his teaching which includes our falls.