“Clearing up the Fallacies about going to Heaven”

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

It’s a strange thing to go to a funeral and hear the preacher tell you, "that’s not sister so and so in the in the casket, that’s just her shell, she has made her home going, she’s in heaven smiling down on us, she’s with the Lord now".

Then fifteen minutes later he’s talking about the resurrection from the grave.

That’s strange because if she’s in heaven then what is there left of her to be raised in the resurrection?

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

Most professing Christians believe that the saved will go to heaven at death. But they have little or no idea about what they will do in heaven.

What does the Bible teach is the reward of the saved?

The belief in "going to heaven" at death is not only held by most professing Christians. People all over the world, of many religions, hold to a belief in some kind of afterlife—some type of "reward" or blissful life after death.

Shocking as it may seem, neither Jesus nor any of his followers taught that the righteous go to heaven when they die! The "reward" Jesus promises His faithful followers are not heaven; it includes ruling with Christ on the earth.

Rev.3:20-21

20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me".

What door is this that Jesus is standing at and knocking on?

This is the door to your mind!

21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne". To he that overcomes the cares of this world, will he grant to sit with him in his throne.

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

Now let’s go and see what throne he will sit on.

Luke:1:26-33

26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end".

Jesus was promised the throne of David, which sits on this earth in Jerusalem, Jesus was to rule over the house of Jacob forever, which is the house of Israel.

1Chron:29:26-27

26 "Thus David the son of Jesse reigned over all Israel.

27 And the time that he reigned over Israel was forty years; seven years reigned he in Hebron, and thirty and three years reigned he in Jerusalem".

In Jerusalem! So don’t look to go up, look to go over.

jiggyfly · Nov 29, 2011

ozell said:
Rev.3:20-21

20 "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me".

What door is this that Jesus is standing at and knocking on?

This is the door to your mind!

Have you got any scriptures that indicate that Jesus is referring to "the door of your mind"?

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

jiggyfly said:
Have you got any scriptures that indicate that Jesus is referring to "the door of your mind"?

I have a lot, I'm not sure if you can receive them

pay attention

Jesus is in heaven and we are here, we must ask oursleves how does the Lord sup with us?
How is he with you?

try this one

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Luke 22:19
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

where is the memory or remembrance located?

surely this you will understand

Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

lets move on.

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

Note the admission of this secular encyclopedia:

"The dominant view in the early church seems to have been that until the return of the Lord upon the clouds of heaven to raise the dead, those who had died were asleep, and that they would be suddenly awakened to be given their new bodies, after which they would reign with Him on earth for a thousand years"

"Heaven," The New International Encyclopedia, 1st edition).

The early Church of God, which Jesus Christ established, did not teach the concept of "going to heaven"—an idea that did not become accepted until long after the Apostles had died.

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

Jesus’ desire is to dwell on earth!

Psalm 132

1 Lord, remember David, and all his afflictions:

2How he sware unto the LORD, and vowed unto the mighty God of Jacob;

3Surely I will not come into the tabernacle of my house, nor go up into my bed;

4I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids,

5Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob

David said that he will not sleep until he finds a habitation for the God of Jacob.

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

Psalm 132

11The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it;

Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne.

12If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore.

13For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
14This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

Where has the Lord chosen for his habitation?

Zion.

This is just another name for Jerusalem.

Jerusalem is where the Lord says he will dwell forever.

Psalm 122

1I was glad when they said unto me, Let us go into the house of the LORD.

2Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem.

Why are our feet standing in the gates of Jerusalem when speaking of the house of the Lord?

Because that’s where the house of the Lord will be.

3Jerusalem is builded as a city that is compact together:

4Whither the tribes go up, the tribes of the LORD, unto the testimony of Israel, to give thanks unto the name of the LORD.

5For there are set thrones of judgment, the thrones of the house of David.

For there are set thrones (plural) of judgment.

jiggyfly · Nov 29, 2011

ozell said:
I have a lot, I'm not sure if you can receive them

pay attention

Jesus is in heaven and we are here, we must ask oursleves how does the Lord sup with us?
How is he with you?

try this one

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Luke 22:19
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

where is the memory or remembrance located?

surely this you will understand

Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

lets move on.

So you think that Jesus lives in our minds???

RJ · Nov 29, 2011

jiggyfly said:
Have you got any scriptures that indicate that Jesus is referring to "the door of your mind"?

He does not believe in following forum rules and providing scripture to support a Biblical point!

RJ · Nov 29, 2011

ozell said:
It’s a strange thing to go to a funeral and hear the preacher tell you, "that’s not sister so and so in the in the casket, that’s just her shell, she has made her home going, she’s in heaven smiling down on us, she’s with the Lord now".

Then fifteen minutes later he’s talking about the resurrection from the grave.

That’s strange because if she’s in heaven then what is there left of her to be raised in the resurrection?

Are you stating a Biblical point?
What would you say to this:
Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits in the place of honor at God's right hand. Colossians 3:1

Is not have been raised pass tense?

james g · Nov 29, 2011

In Philippians 1:23 the Apostle Paul used the word "depart" as describing death. By this he did not mean that he would cease to exist. Depart means "to depart." Did he mean to depart to the grave with Christ? Of course not, for Christ is not in the grave; He is in heaven. II Corinthians 5:8 makes the meaning of departure even clearer when it says, "We are confident . . . and willing ... to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord" The word "present" means "to be at home with." The death of a Christian, therefore, is pictured as a ship pulling up anchor and setting sail for home; in other words, the death of a Christian means "going home."

In the resurrection it is the body that is raised, not the soul and spirit. The Scriptures clearly state that the soul is absent from the body, present with the Lord; and that the souls and spirits are fully awake and aware of things round about them. A perfect illustration of the above truth is found in Revelation 6:9, 10: "When he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: and they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" Here we see the disembodied souls, alive, and reasoning with God. The Apostle Paul says, "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain" (Phil. 1:21). "To live" meant that Paul had perfect fellowship with the living Christ. If death were the end, why would Paul say, "and to die is gain?"

gdemoss · Nov 29, 2011

Ozell,

if things are as you say then I honestly ask:

Why do I lay up my treasure in heaven if I am never going there? (Matt 6:20)

Why did Jesus tell this man to sell his stuff so he could have treasure in heaven if he is never going to be there? (Matt 19:21)

Why is my reward great in heaven if I will never be there? (Lk 6:23)

Why is our citizenship in heaven if we are never going there? (Phil 3:20)

Why is there in heaven a better and enduring substance (Heb 10:34)

Why are there things reserved for us in heaven (1 pe 1:4)

What does it mean to be absent from the body and present with the Lord? Paul is absent from his body, is he present with the Lord or not?

ozell · Nov 30, 2011

=gdemoss;189824]Ozell,

if things are as you say then I honestly ask:

Why do I lay up my treasure in heaven if I am never going there? (Matt 6:20)

Why did Jesus tell this man to sell his stuff so he could have treasure in heaven if he is never going to be there? (Matt 19:21)

Why is my reward great in heaven if I will never be there? (Lk 6:23)

Why is our citizenship in heaven if we are never going there? (Phil 3:20)

Why is there in heaven a better and enduring substance (Heb 10:34)

Why are there things reserved for us in heaven (1 pe 1:4)

which one of these verse say that you go to heaven?

What does it mean to be absent from the body and present with the Lord? Paul is absent from his body, is he present with the Lord or not

lets read th rest and not stop where pastors tell us

2 Corinthians 5 (King James Version)

1For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7(For we walk by faith, not by sight

8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

when?

9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

when the Lord returns

ozell · Nov 30, 2011

james g said:
In Philippians 1:23 the Apostle Paul used the word "depart" as describing death. By this he did not mean that he would cease to exist. Depart means "to depart." Did he mean to depart to the grave with Christ? Of course not, for Christ is not in the grave; He is in heaven. II Corinthians 5:8 makes the meaning of departure even clearer when it says, "We are confident . . . and willing ... to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord" The word "present" means "to be at home with." The death of a Christian, therefore, is pictured as a ship pulling up anchor and setting sail for home; in other words, the death of a Christian means "going home."

In the resurrection it is the body that is raised, not the soul and spirit. The Scriptures clearly state that the soul is absent from the body, present with the Lord; and that the souls and spirits are fully awake and aware of things round about them. A perfect illustration of the above truth is found in Revelation 6:9, 10: "When he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: and they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" Here we see the disembodied souls, alive, and reasoning with God. The Apostle Paul says, "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain" (Phil. 1:21). "To live" meant that Paul had perfect fellowship with the living Christ. If death were the end, why would Paul say, "and to die is gain?"

whe Jesus died and rose was his soul, spirit, body in the tomb when Mary came or was all of him gone?

Jesus is our example.

also

Jesus said

Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

according to the bible a soul can die

eddieb · Nov 30, 2011

when Jesus rose from the dead he came back thru his tomb, his napkin or garment or whatever it was was neatly folded. we share in the blessings of God by adoption meaning, thru Christ Jesus. not some different thing than what Christ got. the bible says first the dead in christ are raised then the living,
there are alot of very common beliefs spoken of by christians and in churches that simply do not line up with scripture. even preached on.
i dont know if when we die we go to "heaven" or if we wait until Christs return in a box while our bodys rot. i dont know becaue i havent died yet, however i think by the above scripture my belief is known.
it also says in scripture things like the meek shall inherit the EARTH, and in revelations the new heaven and new earth and how the new heaven (new jerusalem) comes down from the sky to the earth. according to the written Word of God heaven will be here on earth. and yes i do acknowledge being caught up in a twinkeling of an eye.
psalms 37:34 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt you to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, you shall see it
simply ask yourself why did God make the earth in the first place. I believe its His place to have a people and interact with them. I mean why would he make it and then abandon it? all he does/makes is good.
the bible also states some tombs have already burst forth. I also think a lot of these common beliefs that dont line up with scripture are based on "feel good" and not truth. either way, in a box or looking down from heaven after death, im gonna live forever and ever.

ozell · Nov 30, 2011

RJ said:
He does not believe in following forum rules and providing scripture to support a Biblical point!

what rules are you claiming I'm breaking and my post are always supported by the word of God.

the problem is the lack of understanding you and Jiggy have and the witch hunt you 2 are on.

ozell · Nov 30, 2011

eddieb said:
when Jesus rose from the dead he came back thru his tomb, his napkin or garment or whatever it was was neatly folded. we share in the blessings of God by adoption meaning, thru Christ Jesus. not some different thing than what Christ got. the bible says first the dead in christ are raised then the living,
there are alot of very common beliefs spoken of by christians and in churches that simply do not line up with scripture. even preached on.
i dont know if when we die we go to "heaven" or if we wait until Christs return in a box while our bodys rot. i dont know becaue i havent died yet, however i think by the above scripture my belief is known.
it also says in scripture things like the meek shall inherit the EARTH, and in revelations the new heaven and new earth and how the new heaven (new jerusalem) comes down from the sky to the earth. according to the written Word of God heaven will be here on earth. and yes i do acknowledge being caught up in a twinkeling of an eye.
psalms 37:34 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt you to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, you shall see it
simply ask yourself why did God make the earth in the first place. I believe its His place to have a people and interact with them. I mean why would he make it and then abandon it? all he does/makes is good.
the bible also states some tombs have already burst forth. I also think a lot of these common beliefs that dont line up with scripture are based on "feel good" and not truth. either way, in a box or looking down from heaven after death, im gonna live forever and ever.

thanks for your input and it makes sense to me because it lines up with the word of God

lets look at Job and what he said

Job 14:13-15

King James Version (KJV)

13O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!

14If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. 
15Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

Job tells us that he must wait in the grave until Jesus wrath be past.

the wrath of Jesus has not come yet.

Job is dead and not in heaven.

ozell · Nov 30, 2011

RJ said:
Are you stating a Biblical point?
What would you say to this:
Since you have been raised to new life with Christ, set your sights on the realities of heaven, where Christ sits in the place of honor at God's right hand. Colossians 3:1

Is not have been raised pass tense?

lets read it the way it is written to get a biblical fact

leta read the BIBLE

Colossians 3

1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

let me ask you questions

where do it say there that we are going to heaven?

when does Jesus appear?

and when he appear where is he coming?

when you quote soemthing make sure you know what you are talking about.

is Paul taking to dead Colossians or living colossians?

Paul is telling these gentiles about the future and there spiritual walk.

read it again

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