Deep3Sheep said:

May I write you not just recent events with my mom, but little about her background?

Anyway...

My mom has a narcissistic mother herself. For me my grandmother is also very toxic and energy vampire in a way, although I still love her still. But I prefer not to speak to her daily over the phone, because you never know in what mood is she or what she is going to say next.

Anyway...

My mom as a child felt abandoned and abused by her mom. She was raised by her grandmother (fathers) side mostly. Her grandmothers sister was also helping to raise my mom.

As far as I can remember myself, she always told me all the hurt she went through with her mom. Her grandmother actually adopted her father, so they weren't actually related and when she got to know this, she felt even more alone.

Her grandmother held some sort of christian beliefs or values, they went to church, but all my mom sees that all the beliefs are for sheep because they are all fake in nature, all because she does not have any faith since she thinks then you are under mind control and brainwashed because she sees people who proclaim faith, but they aren't true christians. Those people are two faced.

As her grandmother said to those old ladies who came and worshiped an image of Jesus that they pray to God, but believe in Satan.

Same time her grandmother did some sort of witchcraft too, like with new moon she said and did something to remove moms salt wart permanently.

Anyway...

As you get it, my mom always has said- she is not a sheep and never will be!

Alongside with my grandmother, she has a new trigger- and it is me, because I am born again christian. She carelessly uses words like I am such a fool and stupid who does not think for herself who believes in something that does not exist, in her words the end time prophecy is pure fairytale. My experience with God is not real, I am crazy, he does not exist.

The Bible is made up by men so they can control you. She says!

When she hears the name Jesus Christ, she beats me!

I do see the spiritual warfare behind it, but you know. God has told me two things, He will not save her and He does not know such a smart person as I am.

When you are born again, you see things better and abstain from certain things to be more filled with the Holy Spirit. Even such thing as caffeine, but for my mom it is a trouble and she hates to drink coffee alone and is happy if someone else is going to drink coffee with her. She needs company! Yet she needs to be alone by herself. She is quite easily getting angry at me because of my changes.

She feels that I betrayed her and I do not care about her. I just love God with everything I have and I fear him, but my mom sees that I am stubborn in my life changes, I cannot be so stiff, like true to God.

I'd like to end this message with this that my moms friend saw she is healing now, because she opens up with her pain to many more souls. I see a never ending cycle what concerns her mom. She is not healing, but is more frustrated more than ever, because of her past with her mom and now the present problem is me, because I serve God not man. Yet I love my mom as well and am grateful for the gift of life she gave me.

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I am truly sorry for you. I grew up with npd mother. I know it all. they almost killed me. chilled today, but still need to watch what i say. The meanness spills out.
There is a good christian ministry counselling she is called Shaneen Meghji.
you can find her on youtube.
She talks and evidence a lot of the spirits behind npd. In depth.
And plenty of good advice.
Then we have the more secular but highly educated Dr Ramani. Rebecca Mandeville for scapegoats. Christian x psychotherapist Dr Les Carter.
He worked with victims of npd for years.
You can find them all on the tube
you can not change them
they think they don`t have a problem
your mother obviously took after traits that is common
take care of yourself, don`t give them anything they can use, and always protect yourself.
Limit contact if you have to, it is possible to still be kind and helpful but to have that boundary
Get up, leave, change subject, tell them that is not nice and then do it
basically do not let them start
grey rock helps
if you haven`t educate yourself on the topic
it might be wrong but right to a certain line to negotiate if you do this for me like stop being mean say x I do this. Or you get this. In work places that is how they deal with them
it is not you. They built a false self and they think it is cracking at every minute. So they rage. abuse.
but in the end you have to protect yourself, and kids.
My mother believes when she dies the light bulb just goes. but she has started to ask strange questions about life after death. She is 80 next year. They often get worse by age.
we can try here and there. and pray. It is a personality disorder. They need deliverance I believe before anything can happen. Think of the entities they have invited in.
You can never do enough be enough for a npd. That is in their nature. sorry. If not that then they will use something else. She needs deliverance. There are self deliverance prayers you might be able to pray in her presence or close by vicinity. check www.catholicexorcism.org check deliverance prayers for laity. they are strong and effective.
They have done studies on criminals in prison their brains compared to normal brains, turned out their centre for empathy in the brain was either non exsistent or peanut size, and the frontal lobe severly lacking kind of half to a normal brain and the back as well. So their reasoning skills and logical skills does not work well which is frontal lobe. Added to that stuck at a toddlers level emotionally. Add more never developed empathy and developed a false self. as defence. all they do is for defence as nothing under the surface. It is truly sad. But they need proper treatment but they do not get it as they do not believe there is anything wrong. as if they are not perfect it cracks. and what is under it is huge amount of shame and inferiority.
also check Sam Vaknin proffessor and self proclaimed npd. He now teaches others.

also it is very common to be drawn to and they drawn to you or pinpoint you when you have been through this other npd people or worse psychopaths or other cluster b as it is called they have a radar and can see immediately. so make sure you get help to work through all this. Check Dr Ross Rosenberg. He explains it. also make sure to know the red flags and let them earn your trust. but one in six is those people so we cannot give people benefit of doubt.

Sam Vaknin talks about how a npd need to be broken down to totally alone and nothing left to turn into borderline personality disorder which is treatable. good prognosis. but still, they have to want it. I have seen my own mother have dot pupils and freezing like taken over. She has also made strange statements about church. out of the blue. another has said "you believe in him.. that won`t help you".. before turning back normal. think about it npd and cluster b`s all resemble devil traits

Jesus is right you are smart and there is nothing wrong with you never was. He loves you fully. you could pray he binds her npd and her evil treatment.

Deep3Sheep said:

May I write you not just recent events with my mom, but little about her background?

Anyway...

My mom has a narcissistic mother herself. For me my grandmother is also very toxic and energy vampire in a way, although I still love her still. But I prefer not to speak to her daily over the phone, because you never know in what mood is she or what she is going to say next.

Anyway...

My mom as a child felt abandoned and abused by her mom. She was raised by her grandmother (fathers) side mostly. Her grandmothers sister was also helping to raise my mom.

As far as I can remember myself, she always told me all the hurt she went through with her mom. Her grandmother actually adopted her father, so they weren't actually related and when she got to know this, she felt even more alone.

Her grandmother held some sort of christian beliefs or values, they went to church, but all my mom sees that all the beliefs are for sheep because they are all fake in nature, all because she does not have any faith since she thinks then you are under mind control and brainwashed because she sees people who proclaim faith, but they aren't true christians. Those people are two faced.

As her grandmother said to those old ladies who came and worshiped an image of Jesus that they pray to God, but believe in Satan.

Same time her grandmother did some sort of witchcraft too, like with new moon she said and did something to remove moms salt wart permanently.

Anyway...

As you get it, my mom always has said- she is not a sheep and never will be!

Alongside with my grandmother, she has a new trigger- and it is me, because I am born again christian. She carelessly uses words like I am such a fool and stupid who does not think for herself who believes in something that does not exist, in her words the end time prophecy is pure fairytale. My experience with God is not real, I am crazy, he does not exist.

The Bible is made up by men so they can control you. She says!

When she hears the name Jesus Christ, she beats me!

I do see the spiritual warfare behind it, but you know. God has told me two things, He will not save her and He does not know such a smart person as I am.

When you are born again, you see things better and abstain from certain things to be more filled with the Holy Spirit. Even such thing as caffeine, but for my mom it is a trouble and she hates to drink coffee alone and is happy if someone else is going to drink coffee with her. She needs company! Yet she needs to be alone by herself. She is quite easily getting angry at me because of my changes.

She feels that I betrayed her and I do not care about her. I just love God with everything I have and I fear him, but my mom sees that I am stubborn in my life changes, I cannot be so stiff, like true to God.

I'd like to end this message with this that my moms friend saw she is healing now, because she opens up with her pain to many more souls. I see a never ending cycle what concerns her mom. She is not healing, but is more frustrated more than ever, because of her past with her mom and now the present problem is me, because I serve God not man. Yet I love my mom as well and am grateful for the gift of life she gave me.

Click to expand...

Ask your mother if she believes a Cadillac electric car magically "self-designed" itself into being. If she says "no", then patiently explain that a living cell is far more complex than a mere electric Cadillac and, life is far more complex than a living cell and, the universe is far more complex than life. You can see where this is going. . .

Richard Aberdeen said:

Ask your mother if she believes a Cadillac electric car magically "self-designed" itself into being. If she says "no", then patiently explain that a living cell is far more complex than a mere electric Cadillac and, life is far more complex than a living cell and, the universe is far more complex than life. You can see where this is going. . .

Click to expand...

I suggest reading up on narcissistic personality disorder and the effects it has

Because a narcissist, and those who have narcisstic traits-there is a gliding scale- from a few traits to mid range to full blown disorder, and often they overlap with other disorders, and it does not matter a lot (unless seeking help,which they rarely do) to be fully diagnosed as their victims suffer the same and the behaviour is the same. you can not reason with them and they do live in a fantasy, that they then created for you both and the moment you do not live up to it the abuse occur. They can not change, their minds are too damaged and they believe they do not do anything wrong. The only thing is they learn manipulation better if they ever,rarely come to therapy. There are different types. Many are covert and seem so vulnerable and nice. Until you are alone. What causes it? 50% is genetic, and 50% environment. I have seen the genetic aspect with my own brothers kids, included environment but the genetic aspect was there.
telling what you said to a npd they ignore you and continuing.

They gaslight a LOT, and manipulate a lot especially truth and reality. They do emotional and verbal abuse a lot, but do not mistake that physical abuse sooner or later occur. They destroy your life. Especially your sense of self, your mind, your peace, your self esteem, break you down to NOTHING. after they finally leave you are totally empty, they FEED on you(as so many do even if they are not npd for other reasons) and give little in return only when it benefits them. they do not know love, neither do they have any self. It was never created. they are like a vampire, hollow.

check christian ministry Shaneen Meghji she talks about all of this and do christian counseliing. She talks a lot about the spirits behind narcissism. Think about it they live up to everything satan stands for and invite it in. Pride is a big one as well as jezebel.

A narcissist(and many alike) only feel good when you feel down. ALL they do is for control. Because they do not have a own self they feel that any moment reality can crack so they need control and therefore abuse. This is also why they rage and abuse for nothing and the cycle becomes very unpredictable with you walking on eggshells.

MANY kids grow up like this. And many times the narc manage to take care of you physically and the house and work. Thus it becomes hidden and they are masters at playing well so noone ever suspect only when the door close. they have plenty of people around they fool this way and they act soo nice to them so when you come to them you are shamed and not believed. this is how they play. always.

You could say they are very close to satan and have invited the spirits in.

Deep3Sheep said:

I do see the spiritual warfare

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May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

First thing I have to tell you this phrase you wrote does not come from God.

"I do see the spiritual warfare behind it, but you know. God has told me two things, He will not save her and He does not know such a smart person as I am."

You stay here that God has told you that he will not save her. And secondly he States that he does not know such a smart person as you are.

That is something that the devil will tell you. God will never say that I can guarantee you that.

As long as a person is alive on the planet, that person can be saved and in some situations it's even more. The automatic statement of saying that he will not save her is BS.

Also this is something that the devil will use saying that you are the smartest person there is, because it feeds the ego. This is not something that God speaks like. Because I can tell you if you think you're smart there's always someone else. So don't think that way just get that completely out of your head.

-----------------
Going forward :

"I'd like to end this message with this that my moms friend saw she is healing now, because she opens up with her pain to many more souls. I see a never ending cycle what concerns her mom. She is not healing, but is more frustrated more than ever, because of her past with her mom and now the present problem is me, because I serve God not man. Yet I love my mom as well and am grateful for the gift of life she gave me."

This is perfect. This is how God works right here. Especially the last line, where you say I love my mom as well and I'm grateful for the gift of life she gave me. This is how God speaks to us this is how we should speak to God. Full of compassion and love.

What needs to be done between you your mom and your grandmother especially if your grandmother is still alive. First of all pray, pray a lot for them. Jesus teaches us that we need to go out and preach the word. Those who are the followers of Christ need to preach even if it's to your own parents and your grandparents. And it's not only in preaching but it's in our prayer because you need to also prepare yourself as well as preparing them it's like preparing the soil in the Earth for a farmer to sow the seed of faith. Because this is where it starts, this is where the initial Spark of the Holy Spirit comes to them. Through faith through prayer. And once the seed has been planted in them then you need to continue praying because it's through prayer that God Waters us on the inside. Waters us through Jesus because Jesus is the Water of Life.

When your mother gets to a certain point, baptism is important. But it will depend on where she's at and maybe she will need to do this first, for your mom not only to forgive her mom, but also to receive forgiveness for whatever transgressions has been done between the two of them. Once the forgiveness and the receiving of forgiveness has been completed., salvation will be in their grasp

She most likely need deliverance, when possible.

A real narcissist or psychopath their brains are different, they don`t think they have done anything wrong, so get them to repentance .. most cases not from the heart, at least. If it would be, they should be utter desperate and lost everything kind of senario. They are very much like Saul, and Jonathan. That hard. It is a matter of brain issue. Literally. All I`m saying, it takes a lot more. They do not own empathy. Or care.

I know, for God everything is possible, yes i believe it, but I have also lived with a npd family and my monther is 80 years old next year, and she has NOT changed. The court psychologists said she has not empathy care or compassion. As a whole. If there is some or she feign some at times I don`t know. She can be nice when she wants to. But I have to watch what I say, because it is turned against me. I am trying to describe the disease. I treat her well. Being nice regardless. For someone that has, and are living it, I know what it takes, what this is, and it is NOT just normal behaviour or something one can easily change. NOT.

AND before you say something they tried to kill me on several occasions. I should not have been here had God not saved me. My body took a huge strike however. All I am trying is to illustrate that this is a serious disease of the mind.

Shaneen Meghji comes in on this, christian consellor and talks about the spirits behind this.

What I am trying to say is, there is a difference between normal selfish sin with true narcissistic personality disorder. Regular church habits and saying sorry does NOT fix it
A narcissist as mentioned uses fake apologies, and fake religious words. this tricks hopeful believers into thinking real change is happening. Only to find out when they have been further abused, or worse, it was not.
well meaning christians sometimes push for reconciliation too fast. they forget that safety and clear boundaries also are important.
There are 3 different types of narcissists according to christian counsellor Kris Reese.
Ignorant, arrogant and malignant
The ignorant narcissist is typically unaware of their destructive behaviours. They are likely emotionally immature and have not been taught properly.
This doesn`t excuse their behaviour but there is some hope here, with a big IF attached. Think of these ignorant narcissists as children.

Arrogance is another level up. The narcissist recognises their wrongdoing, yet continues to make decisions that only work in their favour.
Arrogance isn`t limited to the overt narcissist. Arrogant simply describes the lack of care that a that a person has regarding their actions.
This narcissist likely knows exactly what they`re doing and doesn`t care unless it impacts them.
The malignant narcissist is the most troublesome of all. The narcissist is solidified in their beliefs that life is all about them and they will trample anyone in their way and they don`t care who it impacts. These people are highly abusive and derive pleasure from hurting others.
They will stop at nothing to lie and manipulate to get what they want.
While many people in narcisstic relationships jumps to the assumption that their narcissist is malignant, please understand that this is a very, very small percentage of the narcs out there.
Lets look at how likely your narc is to change

There is hope IF
their life is impacted in a negative way
there`s a risk that they`ll loose something that`s important to them, for ex your love, time, affection, money,companionship etc
they are ignorant or arrogant narcs

Remember narcs are very self centered individuals. They only care about what is in it for them.
This is where your boundaries can prove helpful
They will often fall in line, albeit reluctantly, if there is a great risk of loss for them
Just keep in mind that any behavioural changes may just be temporary. If they find someone or something else to meet that need, they will likely ditch you in a heartbeat.
The longer and the more grounded they are in their ways, the less likely they are to see the error of them.
Just keep in mind if YOU are using or relying upon this narc for unmet needs this will all backfire.
Does that mean that only low level narcs have a hope of changing? of course not. Despite popular psychology , I believe all things are possible with God. God can redeem anyone at any time, and that includes the narc- the ignorant, the malignant and the arrogant.
But here`s what I don`t want you to get hung up on- hope for the sake of hope.
what do I mean?
Yes, put your hope in God, but that does NOT mean that you tolerate toxic behaviour, all in the name of hope. That would be an acceptance and enablement of evil on your part.
Think of narcssism as you would any other sin, if someone in your life is sinning against you and unrepentant, do not slap a hope label on it and say you believe they can change.
In Matthew 7:15 Jesus tells us that we will know them by their fruit. Yes the scripture was referring to identifying false prophets, but I believe it also pertains to people in general.
We can easily be fooled by somebody`s words, but their actions will show us who they are.
A tree struggling to bear fruit, may need some pruning and extra TLC. But a tree refusing to bear fruit needs to be treated as such.

can a narc change assessing their willingness to transform

So what are you dealing with?
Is this someone who is struggling? who see the error of their ways and wants to change? this will likely be a very bumpy road ,but there is hope there.
Is this someone who is dealing with a lower level of npd and willing to see where they`re going wrong, even if its just a little at a time? then there`s hope there.
If you`re struggling to be in a relationship with a narcissist , a good support system is necessary. If you need a christian counsellor check out faithcounselling
Narcissits don`t outgrow narcissism. they grow into it. their traits get worse without Gods intervention and serious boundaries. And they are masters in making you believe what they say despite what they do.
krisreece.com/can a narcissist change
check out her blog about 4 steps to escape gaslighting

there you have it folks