Gerbolski
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Ya I agree they both exist.
Are the Gifts of the Spirit Still for Today? — Tongues, Power, and the Proof of Salvation
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Bill
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May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom
You are absolutely correct with that. There are some people who are called to speak in tongues and some who are not.
I think that it is important to be baptized in the spirit. Because I think being baptized in the spirit makes us complete in the Lord. But there have been many people over the years that have never received the Holy Spirit, and that doesn't make them any less of a child of God than those who do receive the Holy Spirit and the gifts.
No I have taught here many times that the water baptism in the baptism of the Holy Spirit are two separate things. And I have good reason to say that as I was present at the water baptism of a man that I met who wanted to become baptized. And after receiving the water baptism the Lord told me to lay hands on him and to baptize him in the Holy Spirit.
No I'm going to just say this because I know that God works in a lot of strange ways. Not everything is cut in stone.
So even though I do know that the baptisms are two separate things one being the water baptism and the other being the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It doesn't mean that you cannot receive both baptisms at the same time. I think there are a number of cases in the scripture where we can see that the people received both baptisms at the same time. And yet there are also other times where we see the separation in them. As an example you had the followers of John the Baptist that went with Jesus. They had already received the water baptism, it doesn't say it specifically in the scripture but it stands to reason if they're going to be a follower of John the Baptist that they had already received the water baptism. But it's later that they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit as Apostles of Jesus.
And there are many instances in the Old Testament and even in the New Testament, were the concept of the baptism of the Holy Spirit wasn't present. And yet in the Old Testament you have the profits and you have Elijah and all these other people having all Extraordinary gifts of the Spirit. And even in the New Testament there was the two Prophets that were at the temple when Jesus was brought to the temple and speaking to Mary the mother of Jesus. So we can see that the Holy Spirit did touch people even though the understanding of the gifts of the Spirit weren't present at the time.
Going back to speaking in tongues. It's great if you have it it's okay if you don't. It doesn't mean that you're not a follower of Jesus either way.
Gerbolski
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Ya I would agree with that.
Gerbolski
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The tongues thing
1Co 14:19-20
(19) Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
(20) Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
So Paul mentions these things, which finishes with, to be men in understanding.
Then he starts another phrase:
1Co 14:21-22
(21) In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
(22) Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
In verse 21, it speaks of other tongues which was mentioned in the book of Isaiah, and points to the day of Pentecost in the book of Acts.
And then in verse 22, it mentions that tongues are for a sign, it does point back to other tongues but also to tongues in general, for it is written tongues in a general sense in verse 22.
So both other tongues and unknown tongues are for a sign.
And I know that people use the Italicized argument, but do you know how many words are Italicized in the bible ?
If you were to remove them, the bible would not be readable in how we use our English language, and I believe that the KJV people rightly discerned the right words to be used, even the word "unknown" for tongues, for in the Greek language things are said differently then how we say things in English, and they chose the right words, which basically pointed to the exact same thing in the Greek, but saying things how we would say things in English.
Now I am no Greek expert, but I do know this is the case just by simply knowing 2 languages, French and English.
And frankly the bible reveals the bible, for it says:
1Co 14:2
(2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
The bible reveals the bible.
And yes I do expect sarcasm for some people cannot help themselves.
1Co 14:19-20
(19) Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
(20) Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
So Paul mentions these things, which finishes with, to be men in understanding.
Then he starts another phrase:
1Co 14:21-22
(21) In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
(22) Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
In verse 21, it speaks of other tongues which was mentioned in the book of Isaiah, and points to the day of Pentecost in the book of Acts.
And then in verse 22, it mentions that tongues are for a sign, it does point back to other tongues but also to tongues in general, for it is written tongues in a general sense in verse 22.
So both other tongues and unknown tongues are for a sign.
And I know that people use the Italicized argument, but do you know how many words are Italicized in the bible ?
If you were to remove them, the bible would not be readable in how we use our English language, and I believe that the KJV people rightly discerned the right words to be used, even the word "unknown" for tongues, for in the Greek language things are said differently then how we say things in English, and they chose the right words, which basically pointed to the exact same thing in the Greek, but saying things how we would say things in English.
Now I am no Greek expert, but I do know this is the case just by simply knowing 2 languages, French and English.
And frankly the bible reveals the bible, for it says:
1Co 14:2
(2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
The bible reveals the bible.
And yes I do expect sarcasm for some people cannot help themselves.
MedicBravo
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You've provided no evidence other than your "claim" it has happened in your presence and that you "know people who've done it.
Not sorry but there are too many fakers to just believe you or anyone else who claims the same.
I learned this morning that one female "pastor" was using paid actors to pretend to have autism and she would "cure" them.
Gerbolski
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Sure I understand, because you do not know me, and it is true there are a lot of fakers.
Gerbolski
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And we have to be careful how we judge things, because Christ gave a warning, to I believe was the Pharisees, which they were saying that Jesus was casting demons out by Beelzebub, which Jesus gave a very severe warning, via the blaspheme of the Holy Ghost.
That is very severe.
The people who know me, know I am genuine, and that I love the Lord.
There is truly a lot of fakery, and people I think of via that range of things, is the many things which goes on in Bethel and Bill Johnson, and people like Copeland, and such like.
I guess MediBravo, it will be hard to convince you of unknown tongues, but one issue we have not covered is the face to face issue.
1Co 13:10-12
(10) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
(11) When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
(12) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
That is very severe.
The people who know me, know I am genuine, and that I love the Lord.
There is truly a lot of fakery, and people I think of via that range of things, is the many things which goes on in Bethel and Bill Johnson, and people like Copeland, and such like.
I guess MediBravo, it will be hard to convince you of unknown tongues, but one issue we have not covered is the face to face issue.
1Co 13:10-12
(10) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
(11) When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
(12) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
MedicBravo
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Vice versa.
Feel free to go into all of my posts and profile.
I made this avatar picture b/c I know full well of what "certain people" especially the Left will do when they find more about you.
I do not lie.
I do not give misinformation.
IF....by chance Tongues happened to anyone or they were they when it happened, then evidence is needed.
Cellphones are everywhere and that church would verify if it was legit or not.
Even then, everybody lies.
We all know they exist b/c it happened in a time so unremoved from any sense of modern day.
Eye witness testimony still is the most reliable source of evidence and will stand as such in any court.
Gerbolski
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Very strange statement, what does your avatar even prove ?
I do speak in tongues, but not at will, but when I am really touched by him, there are times I do, and are times I do not.
What do you actually want?
You want a video or something ?
And will you receive it, and what if I do not speak in tongues in that moment ?
I have had Skype video conversations with people of other Christian sites, and we have become friends, and they got to know me, would you like to get to know me, maybe we can do private chat, or some video chat ?
I do not trust most people on Christian sites, because there are all kinds on here, some trolls and so on.
Gerbolski
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And I don't to like to be boastful, or have to feel to try to prove something, seeking to be humble.
We can start with a private chat if you want, and go from there, because I have to learn to trust you, and get to know you, because I do not know you.
We can start with a private chat if you want, and go from there, because I have to learn to trust you, and get to know you, because I do not know you.
Gerbolski
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I have not given any misinformation, that is your claim towards me, that is not spiritual discernment.
First and the Last
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1 Corinthians 13:8, "Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away"
Highlights the enduring nature of godly love. This verse contrasts the eternal and unwavering quality of love with the temporary nature of spiritual gifts like prophecies, tongues, and knowledge. These gifts are essential for edifying the church and spreading the gospel, but they are finite and serve their intended roles within the church age.
Scripture also recognize that these gifts will continue until the end of the age when "that which is perfect is come" (1 Corinthians 13:10). This phrase is interpreted as referring to the culmination of God's plan and the return of Christ, (not the finished canon of Scripture) when believers will experience complete understanding and fulfillment in His presence. At that time, prophecies, tongues, and partial knowledge will no longer be needed as they will be surpassed by the perfect knowledge and revelation found in Christ.
In contrast, charity—selfless, sacrificial love modeled after Christ's love—is eternal and foundational to the Christian faith. It persists beyond the temporal expressions of spiritual gifts because it reflects the very nature of God Himself (1 John 4:8). Scripture emphasizes the importance of cultivating this love in all aspects of life, as it transcends the transient nature of gifts and endures throughout eternity. This perspective encourages believers to prioritize love above all else, knowing that it is the enduring mark of a life lived in communion with God and in service to others.
1 Corinthians 13:9, "For we know in part, and we prophesy in part"
Acknowledges the limitations of human understanding and spiritual revelation in relation to the vastness of God's wisdom and knowledge. This verse underscores the belief that while believers receive divine insights and messages through prophetic utterances and spiritual gifts, these revelations are partial and incomplete compared to the fullness of God's truth. This as a reminder of the need for humility and dependency on God's Spirit in interpreting and applying spiritual revelations.
The phrase "we know in part" acknowledges that human knowledge and understanding are finite and subject to our current perspectives and experiences. It emphasizes the ongoing journey of growth and learning in faith, recognizing that our understanding of spiritual truths is progressive and evolving. Similarly, "we prophesy in part" highlights that the prophetic messages received are not exhaustive or complete revelations but are delivered according to God's timing and purpose. Prophecy is a gift of the Holy Spirit intended for edification, exhortation, and comfort within the church community (1 Corinthians 14:3).
1 Corinthians 12:29-30, "Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"
Addresses the diversity of spiritual gifts within the body of Christ, emphasizing that not every believer will have the same role or gift. The church is likened to a body, with each member having a distinct function, and all are necessary for the health and growth of the church. This diversity ensures that the church operates effectively, with apostles, prophets, teachers, miracle workers, those with gifts of healing, and others each contributing uniquely to the mission of the church.
It is important to distinguish between the different types of speaking in tongues mentioned in the New Testament. The Bible teaches that speaking in tongues serves different purposes and contexts. First, there is speaking in tongues as the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit, which is a private and personal experience for every believer baptized in the Holy Ghost. This experience is a sign of the New Birth and is distinct from the spiritual gifts described in 1 Corinthians 12.
The passage in 1 Corinthians 12 refers to the specific gift of tongues used in a public worship setting. This gift, meant for the edification of the church, typically occurs during quiet spiritual moments and requires interpretation. Not all believers will possess this particular gift, just as not all are apostles, prophets, or teachers. This public exercise of the gift of tongues, accompanied by interpretation, is different from the personal prayer language experienced by individuals when they receive the Holy Spirit.
In summary, while every believer is encouraged to seek and receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues as a personal experience, the specific gift of tongues used in church settings for communal edification and requiring interpretation is given according to God’s sovereign will and purpose. This distinction clarifies the different roles of speaking in tongues within the body of Christ, both for individual spiritual growth and for the edification of the church.
Gerbolski
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Well I am glad someone responded on the face to face thing, and no doubt on some points, what you say is good.
Now tongues is not really a sign of the new birth, but it is a sign that you have received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and yes there are type of prayer tongues, and specific gifts of tongues.
So I am glad that someone shared their view on the face to face thing, I will share mine later, after more responses.
Have a good day First and the Last.
First and the Last
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I appreciate your reply, and I’m glad you brought up the distinction between tongues as a sign of Spirit baptism and tongues as a specific gift—there’s definitely overlap in our thinking there. But I do want to circle back for a moment to something foundational that often gets glossed over: what the New Testament actually presents as the normative beginning of the Christian life in the early church.
When we talk about whether tongues are tied to the New Birth, I always think of Acts 2:37. After Peter preached, the people—cut to the heart—asked the apostles:
“Men and brethren, what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37)
If receiving the Spirit automatically and silently happened at mere belief, that would have been the perfect moment for Peter to say, “You’ve believed—so you already have everything you need.”
But that’s not what he said.
Peter responded with the threefold pattern that the early church consistently followed:
Repent,
be baptized in Jesus’ name,
and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
And what defined that moment of receiving the Spirit in the book of Acts?
Not a vague inward assurance but an observable manifestation—speaking in tongues (Acts 2:4; 10:46; 19:6). That’s why the apostles in Jerusalem knew the Gentiles had received the same experience: “For they heard them speak with tongues.”
To me, this doesn’t just highlight an optional experience—it shows the early believers understood Spirit baptism as something recognizable, something confirmable, something that happened, not just was assumed.
And this ties back to something Jesus Himself commanded. Before the Day of Pentecost, He didn’t say, “Go start preaching immediately.”
He said the exact opposite:
“Tarry… until ye be endued with power from on high.” (Luke 24:49)
“Ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you.” (Acts 1:8)
In other words:
“Don’t attempt to step into ministry—don’t even begin the mission—until you’ve received the same power you’re going to carry to others.”
And the moment that power came, they didn’t just feel boldness…
they spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave utterance.
So when someone says tongues aren’t connected to the new birth, I understand the hesitancy—especially in trying to distinguish between personal prayer tongues and the public gift of tongues. But the pattern in Acts shows that tongues accompanied the moment the Spirit first entered someone’s life. It’s not about emotionalism or making tongues the entire focus—it’s simply recognizing the consistent biblical marker that God Himself chose to demonstrate that the Spirit had indeed been poured out.
That’s why I see 1 Corinthians 12–14 not as limiting the universal experience of tongues, but as regulating the public church-service expression of a particular gift of tongues, which is a different category altogether from what happened in Acts 2, Acts 10, and Acts 19.
I’m glad this conversation is open and respectful—I’ll be interested to hear your perspective on the “face to face” part whenever you share it.
Have a blessed day, friend.
Gerbolski
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Yes that is the usual pattern.
The born again experience is as a result of the cross and the resurrection, it is this that saves us, but the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues, is also evidenced with enduement of power from on high for service, it is not the cross and resurrection, but empowerment for service.
When it speaks of sanctification, it never connects this with the Holy Ghost baptism.
And at salvation, we have the Holy Ghost, but at the baptism of the Holy Ghost, you are fully immersed in the Holy Ghost.
On the day of Pentecost, many things happened, they were born again, and also baptized in the Holy Ghost with enduement of power for service.
Once someone is saved, they can be used by GOD to whatever degree, but with the baptism of the Holy Ghost, it is to the degree with enduement of power from on high.
Have a good one, first and last.
MedicBravo
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Validity and merit of a person online is whether they hide behind a fake account or not. I do not.
It matters b/c anyone who knows me on here or other sites I used it and my real name know who I am.
If you're going to 'claim' you have and can on demand then prove it.
Otherwise you, like the rest, have no backing to it.
I have yet to receive proof from anyone. If you did have it, then you'd have shared it and it would be known on some level. If not, then that makes your claim all the more invalid.
I've just met you and as users generally give each other some level of courtesy, I don't know you enough to trust you and you shouldn't on me either.
The only way to escape the trolls and Leftards is to Block and don't respond to them in the first place.
