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Who was Jesus, before Being Jesus?

B-A-C said:
As usual, I always post from the NASB95 unless otherwise noted.
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Thank you, much appreciated. For the verse in question, it's the same as the NKJV, which is why I used that.

B-A-C said:
I do not recognize Liddell Scott as authoritative in anything scripturally.
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You could have at least provided an alternative...
Just to say that I use the Liddell Scott because I can provide a web LINK, whereas I cannot with Cambridge and Kittles.
 
B-A-C said:
I suppose the question here, would be... who gave a tithe to who? But it was Abram who had the spoils of war, not Melchizedek.
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Abram may have had them, but the King of Sodom owned them and Abram wasn't a king. That's why Sodom brought Abram's King along, to settle what Abram should get, and he wasn't pleased with the results. If anything was given to the King of Salem, why did Sodom directly tell Abram to keep the goods but he wanted all the people back? Because the King of Salem had awarded a tenth of everything (including people) to Abram.

So indeed the question is who awarded a tithe to whom? But the word tithe cannot be used. Like the word "hell" it's useless. Best to say tenth as was written.

But I don't wish to be charged with derailing the thread. I'd just ask that you read the narrative, because one doesn't change the subject performing the action with a pronoun. But it's sure a lucrative slight of hand for the priests who wanted money, no?

B-A-C said:
I see no contradiction here.
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It's a complete contradiction.

Abram didn't give anything of Sodom's to Salem. How could he? He didn't own them. They weren't his to give.

The author of Hebrews bought into the centuries old tradition and flubbed it up.

Tradition kills truth.

Rhema
 
Deep Seeker said:
Who really knows who are the Sons of God? Perhaps God does!
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But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:​
- John 1:12 KJV

I think a person knows if they've received the Holy Spirit or not.
 
B-A-C said:
I've noticed, whenever the Bible disagrees with someone's theoloy, it's always the Bible that's wrong, and never them.
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Never said that Genesis was wrong. Genesis makes perfect sense. Why else did the King of Sodom track Abram down to get his stuff back if he didn't own it anymore?

Hebrews has a couple of major mistakes as a matter of fact, not theology.

So what did Jesus say about any required tithe?

He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers? Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.​
(Matthew 17:25-26 KJV)

The point is, Abram didn't own the stuff he re-captured, and the King of Sodom didn't want Abram to steal his stuff.

How you can pay tithe on stuff you don't own?

But, hey, you're a slave to tradition....
Rhema
 
Rhema said:
I always wondered where they pulled the word "with" from.

(And C'mon BAC, you know you're supposed to list the translation.)

He was in the beginning PROS God.​
- John 1:2 NKJV

C. WITH ACCUS., PROS expresses motion or direction towards an object: (Liddell Scott)

There's just no way that the English word "with" could possibly convey this meaning, just as "beginning" doesn't come close to ARXE, the noun used to identify the cosmic protoplasm from which all physical matter sprang.

The closest approximation would be "at the hand of".

He was suffused through the cosmic protoplasm at the hand of God.​
- John 1:2 NKJV

Truth just cannot be found in bad translations created by biased institutions.

Rhema
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The work of Christ's faith as a labor of His love . . . "let there be": includes using the dying flesh of the Son of mana the good testimony.

The just law or power of faith "let there be" and "it was good" The visible work of the invisible Spirit.

John 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was (came from) God.

The translation. . Word was God, makes no sense. .

Which word was God . . .God ?

The word spoken was let there be

Simply someone trying to develop a trinity rather than the dynamic dual .The Father and Son ministry
 
Deep Seeker said:
Blessings to You my friend.

There is no Begining with The Elohim ! They just are. For indeed, It is stated in Genesis: "Let US create: Not, Let Me create; OR, I will create. .. .
The question is then: Who are The Us?
Jesus gave the answer to that question when He was dying on The Cross.

Father, give Me that which I had with You in The Begining! Hence: "Let US create" .

Here is seen that The Creation of Genesis 1:1 was of God, and His The one called Jesus, Who was to BECOME, The Son Of MAN.
This also opens up a new story!
For who was sent unto The House Of Israel?

Also, who was The One who was sent? It was Abel, THE SON OF THE MAN, Adam! Stop and consider This Statement!
Now insert Abel in place of The One who was to be named, Jesus!

Abel, stand on Your feet, from Your death. I will send You to The House of Isreal. THEN Abel stood up and went to the House Of Isreal. What He was is a Keeper Of Sheep. What Sheep? The Sheep of the House Of Isreal ! Here then is the true story of Who The Son Of Man really was, and Is.

DeepSeeker
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I'm sorry but there is no basis for this poppycock in the Holy Scriptures and your statement proclaims your heresy when you change what is written to what you want to be there.
 

Who was Jesus,​

before Being Jesus?​


Answer:
Who was the WORD,
before being named,
Jesus?
 
Concerning Jesus before becoming Jesus in Isael.
Jesus is called, The Son Of Man.
This then begs the question: Son of what Man? When One reads the genealogy given in Mathew 1; It is seen that Jesus was the descendant of the seed line of David.
However, there is another verse which adds more to This One.
John 20:1 Now on the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, Mary Magdelene came to the tomb early, which it was still dark, and saw that The Stone had been removed from across the entrance to the tomb.

Notice here first this; It was still dark. The New Day had not yet begun. Mary had not yet entered The Cavern. She went to tell Christ Jesus companions what She had seen. She saw only The Stone removed from the Entrance to The Tomb. Who removed It?
NoticeNow going back yo Genesis 1 what took place next.
After The disciples went back to Their homes. Mary remained there outside in White sitting Thereof The Tomb sobbing. While standing outs, one at the head, and One at His feet of where His body had been.
Now read closely what follows. Woman, why are You crying? She said to Them. They have taken away My Lord, and I do not know where They have laid Him.
She then turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but She did not recognize It was Jesus.
Consider closely what had taken place at That Event.

First, Jesus body form was gone. Secondly; She did not recognize that it was Jesus She was talking to. His form had changed! She thought it was The Gardener
There is much to consider here!
First, consider that Mary did not recognize Jesus New Form. Secondly; She thought It was The Gardener. Now going back to Genesis, and considering Adam and Eve; the following is clearly seen.
Here is a picture of Adam and Eve. Adam was indeed, The Gardener. Here, Mary is the symbol of Eve, seeking Her husband, Adam! In Genesis, it was Eve who sinned. Here it is Jesus who took on The Sin of Isreal. Eve listened to Satan; Jesus listened to Elohim. Satan tried to tempt Jesus and failed.
Notice that Mary did not recognize Jesus New form! When She did recognize Jesus, She said to Him, Master!


After this it is stated: On Th First Day of The Week, when it was evening, The Disciples were behind, CLOSED DOORS,; and Jesus appeared to Them; and said, Peace! /he then gave to Them, The Holy Spirit! notice however, that Thomas, The Deceiver, did not obtain The Holy Spirit. Thomas was Satans' worker.

There is indeed much that often does not get considered close enough when reading The Scriptures. What I have written here is by no means all that could be written. I pray that this Message will be of a help to Those who have not considered these events closely.
DeepSeeker
 
B-A-C said:
Hebrews is wrong, Paul is wrong about the rapture, Revelation shouldn't even be here.... I'm starting to wonder if there any part of the
Bible you do like?
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I am a disciple and servant of the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ. To believe in Christ means to obey his Teachings, and His Teachings alone.

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.​
- Mark 1:14-15 KJV

1) If Jesus came preaching the Gospel, then the Gospel is what Jesus preached, and him alone. Jesus didn't leave stuff out, and never said, "Hey, all my teaching gets dispensed with at the resurrection and you should look for some guy named Paul to tell you the real truth, because my twelve are idiots."

If you want to condemn me as a Red Letter Christian, be my guest. I wear the insult proudly.

But no, I am not brainwashed into any religious tradition, no matter where it came from, whether clinging to icons or holy books. I state my views clearly and with supportive reasons for why I believe the way I do.

It greatly helps to dismiss English translations when one learns to read the initial languages.

There are three major errors in the book of Hebrews, but that should be discussed in a different thread if the powers that be permit.

Rhema
 
Deep Seeker said:
When One reads the genealogy given in Mathew 1; It is seen that Jesus was the descendant of the seed line of David.
Click to expand...
No. The text does not say this. The lineage given is of Joseph -

And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.​
- Matthew 1:16 KJV

The genealogy of Jesus stated here lists only Mary. Unless you deny the virgin birth.

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.​
- Matthew 1:18 KJV

I rather think it is important to read what is actually written, don't you?

Rhema
 
Deep Seeker said:
The Holy Spirit! notice however, that Thomas, The Deceiver, did not obtain The Holy Spirit. Thomas was Satans' worker.
Click to expand...
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.​
- Acts 1:5 KJV
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.​
- Acts 2:1 KJV

Scripture is pretty clear that they all were baptized with the Holy Ghost. The Apostle Thomas founded the Church of the East and brought many to Christ in the Parthian Empire. You need to stop your slander.

Rhema
 
B-A-C said:
Jesus always was. There was never a time "before" Jesus.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

John 8:57 So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Some people take this verse to mean Jesus was "created" when the physical universe was created, but that's not what it says.
All it is saying here is... when the physical universe was finally created, Jesus was the firstborn of creation. That doesn't mean He didn't
exist before creation.

Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Rev 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

Micah 5:2 "But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."

Luke 10:18 And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

What year did that happen?
Click to expand...
John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
 
B-A-C said:
Jesus always was. There was never a time "before" Jesus.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

John 8:57 So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Some people take this verse to mean Jesus was "created" when the physical universe was created, but that's not what it says.
All it is saying here is... when the physical universe was finally created, Jesus was the firstborn of creation. That doesn't mean He didn't
exist before creation.

Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Rev 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

Micah 5:2 "But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."

Luke 10:18 And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

What year did that happen?
Click to expand...
"
Luke 10:18 And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

What year did that happen?"

The serpent was in the garden of Eden, so I am assuming the satan and the fallen angels were cast out of heaven to the earth, before God the Father made Adam and Eve ... there must be some timeline for the beginning of humanity? God must have known the outcome of the beginning of sin? There are a lot of blanks here for me, which I would like to understand more : )
 
Jesua888 said:
John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Click to expand...
This is the evidence that I was hoping to find ... fairly new to the scriptures and am enjoying this bible study : )
 
Deep Seeker said:
Blessings to You my friend.

There is no Begining with The Elohim ! They just are. For indeed, It is stated in Genesis: "Let US create: Not, Let Me create; OR, I will create. .. .
The question is then: Who are The Us?
Jesus gave the answer to that question when He was dying on The Cross.

Father, give Me that which I had with You in The Begining! Hence: "Let US create" .

Here is seen that The Creation of Genesis 1:1 was of God, and His The one called Jesus, Who was to BECOME, The Son Of MAN.
This also opens up a new story!
For who was sent unto The House Of Israel?

Also, who was The One who was sent? It was Abel, THE SON OF THE MAN, Adam! Stop and consider This Statement!
Now insert Abel in place of The One who was to be named, Jesus!

Abel, stand on Your feet, from Your death. I will send You to The House of Isreal. THEN Abel stood up and went to the House Of Isreal. What He was is a Keeper Of Sheep. What Sheep? The Sheep of the House Of Isreal ! Here then is the true story of Who The Son Of Man really was, and Is.

DeepSeeker
Click to expand...
Deep Seeker,

In your statement :
"Here is seen that The Creation of Genesis 1:1 was of God, and His The one called Jesus, Who was to BECOME, The Son Of MAN.
This also opens up a new story!
For who was sent unto The House Of Israel?"
I looked for this "Genesis 1:1 was God, and His The one called Jesus Who was to BECOME, The Son of MAN" and could not find it; is this information found somewhere else? Thanks Linda
 
Rhema said:
No. The text does not say this. The lineage given is of Joseph -

And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.- Matthew 1:16 KJV

The genealogy of Jesus stated here lists only Mary. Unless you deny the virgin birth.

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.- Matthew 1:18 KJV

I rather think it is important to read what is actually written, don't you?
Click to expand...
Virgin birth?
 
Deep Seeker said:
When One reads the genealogy given in Mathew 1; It is seen that Jesus was the descendant of the seed line of David.
Click to expand...
No.

The text does not say that. In Matthew 1; it is seen that JOSEPH was a descendant of the seed line of David.

And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.​
- Matthew 1:14-16 KJV

How is this not self evident?

Thanks,
Rhema
 
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