WAKE UP people.
We are living in the most absurd, upside-down, spiritually hijacked era in human history.

The modern State of Rothschild’s False Israel™ — the darling of Dispensationalists, the so-called “prophetic fulfillment,” the supposed home of “God’s chosen people” — is an absolute fraud.

A theological fraud.
A political fraud.
A genealogical fraud.

And every time the modern Church bows to it, it spits in the face of Christ.

Let’s be crystal clear:

The overwhelming majority of those claiming to be “Jews” today — the Ashkenazi — are not from the tribe of Judah. Not from Levi. Not from Benjamin.
They are not Hebrews.
They are not biblical Israelites.
They are white, Eastern European converts — the descendants of the Khazar Empire, a medieval Turkic kingdom that adopted Judaism around the 8th–10th centuries.
That’s it. No Moses. No David. No temple lineage.
They’re as genetically related to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as your local HVAC repairman.

BUT EVEN IF THEY WERE…

Even if they had direct DNA from the biblical priesthood — from Aaron, Moses’ brother and the first high priest of Israel —
THEY ARE STILL CUT OFF FROM GOD WITHOUT CHRIST, according to the Gospel.

“No one who denies the Son has the Father.” — 1 John 2:23
“Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.” — Romans 9:6
“If you belong to Christ, you are Abraham’s seed.” — Galatians 3:29

It doesn’t matter if your bloodline traces to the temple courts.
It doesn’t matter if you speak fluent Hebrew, wear a yarmulke, and quote Torah from memory.
If you reject the Son, you are outside the covenant. Full stop.

There is no path back to the Father that bypasses the Cross.
There is no chosenness apart from the Chosen One.

The Gospel obliterates all of it.
Ethnic pride.
National myth.
Religious cosplay.
Gone.

This isn’t just deception — it’s triple deception.

They’re not biblically Jewish — they reject Jesus Christ, the King of the Jews.

They’re not genetically Jewish — they’re Eastern Europeans with no bloodline to Abraham.

They’re not geographically Jewish — they are squatters on land seized in 1948, propped up by war, banking empires, and propaganda.
Their 8th-century ancestors couldn’t have found biblical Israel on a map if the entire map was Israel.

They are fake Jews — three times over:
Spiritually fake
Genetically fake
Prophetically fake

They are not the people of God — they are the people of Gog.

Triple fake.
Fake lineage.
Fake inheritance.
Fake chosenness.

And the tragic part?

Millions of Christians — especially in the West — are still defending this charade in the name of “blessing Israel,” as if God’s promises were about land deeds and chromosomes, instead of faith in the blood of His Son.

“If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed.” — Galatians 3:29
“If righteousness could be gained through the Law, Christ died for nothing.” — Galatians 2:21

This is not “replacement theology.”
It’s fulfilled theology — the actual Gospel.

Jesus didn’t come to be a sidekick to a modern political state.
He didn’t bleed to reinforce a rabbinic caste system.

He IS the temple.
He IS the covenant.
He IS Israel.

And if you’re not in Him — you’re out.

The Gospel of Christ said:

But Scofield rewrote the whole story.

Click to expand...

I think I'm going to have to get one of these.
Could be fun.
Thank you.

The Gospel of Christ said:

You completely misrepresented what I said. I never called God a liar — I quoted Jesus Christ Himself:
“Immediately after the tribulation... He will gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31

Not before. Not secretly. After. That’s not up for debate — that’s straight from the red letters.

Click to expand...

1. I gave you a link to a thread discussing the rapture. Many scriptures provided for it there.
2. In this thread I provided a logical rebuttal for a non rapture belief.

You have not taken a stab at either of the above two. You have only repeated your opinion.

I remind you, I have provided very sane and logical reasons for a non rapture belief incriminating God as evil, unjust and making Him out to be a liar. Properly debunking this should be high on your priority list.

The Gospel of Christ said:

Twisting someone’s words because the plain text doesn’t support your theory isn’t theology —
it’s emotional manipulation in Scofield pajamas.

You accuse me of “cherry-picking,” but you’re the one skipping over the timeline Jesus laid out plainly.
There is one return, one gathering, and one Gospel — not some divided, theatrical circus where ethnic Jews get a second chance and the Church gets a secret escape hatch.

Click to expand...

More opinion. If you want to discuss, bring scriptures.

The Gospel of Christ said:

You say your doctrine comes from “a logical working brain.”
I say it comes from Scofield’s Zionist-funded notebook, not the Bible.

Yes, the Bible is divided into Old and New — that’s called covenant, not dispensations.
The New Covenant didn’t run alongside the old — it fulfilled it.

“He has made the two one... creating in Himself one new man.” — Ephesians 2:15

Your theology splits what Jesus came to unite.

Click to expand...

You missed the point I made. But good to see you can grasp two different covenants. Now you just need to apply that same thinking to dispensations.

You over react to trivial matters. Believing in dispensations is a Rom 14:5 type disagreement. Completely immaterial disagreement. Unlike my accusation of your non rapture belief incriminating God.

Take the millennium as an example. The seventh dispensation. Do you agree or disagree that there is a vast difference in the way humans will interact with God during this period?

KingJ said:

1. I gave you a link to a thread discussing the rapture. Many scriptures provided for it there.
2. In this thread I provided a logical rebuttal for a non rapture belief.

You have not taken a stab at either of the above two. You have only repeated your opinion.

I remind you, I have provided very sane and logical reasons for a non rapture belief incriminating God as evil, unjust and making Him out to be a liar. Properly debunking this should be high on your priority list.



More opinion. If you want to discuss, bring scriptures.



You missed the point I made. But good to see you can grasp two different covenants. Now you just need to apply that same thinking to dispensations.

You over react to trivial matters. Believing in dispensations is a Rom 14:5 type disagreement. Completely immaterial disagreement. Unlike my accusation of your non rapture belief incriminating God.

Take the millennium as an example. The seventh dispensation. Do you agree or disagree that there is a vast difference in the way humans will interact with God during this period?

Click to expand...

You say I haven’t provided Scripture — but I quoted Jesus Christ verbatim:

“Immediately after the tribulation... He will gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31

That’s not “my opinion.” That’s red-letter eschatology from the Son of God Himself.

You accuse me of skipping your “logical rebuttal,” but I’m not debating logic games —
I’m standing on the Word of God.

Here are a few more Scriptures that destroy the pre-trib rapture fantasy:

1. “At the last trumpet… we shall be changed.” — 1 Corinthians 15:52
Not before the tribulation. Not seven years earlier. At the last trumpet.
Meaning: no trumpets after it. So much for your two-stage return theory.

2. “The Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven… taking vengeance on them that know not God…
when He comes to be glorified in His saints.” — 2 Thessalonians 1:7–10.
Not two separate events. One return. One glory. One judgment.

3. “The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.” — Revelation 20:5–6
If the first resurrection happens after the tribulation and before the millennium,
how is there room for your secret, pre-trib rapture seven years earlier?

4. “We who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.” — 1 Thessalonians 4:15
Again — the coming, not a partial coming, not a secret prequel.

As for your accusation that my belief “incriminates God as evil and a liar” —
that’s blasphemous projection.

I’m quoting Christ. You’re quoting a system born in 1830 from a 16-year-old mystic and a Zionist-funded Bible annotation.

You say this is a Romans 14:5 “disagreement”?
Paul was talking about days of the week, not eschatologies that rewrite the return of Christ and split the Body of Christ into VIP rapture tiers and second-class tribulation leftovers.

You want to talk about the millennium? Sure.

“Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection… they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.” — Revelation 20:6

But that first resurrection happens after the tribulation —
Which means no one is reigning during the millennium except those who endured through it.

So again:
There is one Second Coming,
One resurrection,
One gathering,
One Church.

Not two comings.
Not two peoples.
Not two gospels.

That’s what Jesus taught.
That’s what Paul preached.
That’s what I believe.

You want to debate fantasy timelines?
Go find Scofield’s grave and argue with him.

I’ll stick with Christ.

The Gospel of Christ said:

You say I haven’t provided Scripture — but I quoted Jesus Christ verbatim:

“Immediately after the tribulation... He will gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31

That’s not “my opinion.” That’s red-letter eschatology from the Son of God Himself.

Click to expand...

Your opinion is that there is no rapture. You arrive at that belief because you cherry pick scripture. You quote Matt 24:29-31 but ignore Matt 24:1-28.

The Gospel of Christ said:

You accuse me of skipping your “logical rebuttal,” but I’m not debating logic games —
I’m standing on the Word of God.

Click to expand...

You are most certainly not standing on the word of God.

Scripture says that God is not evil, unjust or a liar. You are pushing a belief that suggests He is.

The Gospel of Christ said:

Here are a few more Scriptures that destroy the pre-trib rapture fantasy:

1. “At the last trumpet… we shall be changed.” — 1 Corinthians 15:52
Not before the tribulation. Not seven years earlier. At the last trumpet.
Meaning: no trumpets after it. So much for your two-stage return theory.

2. “The Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven… taking vengeance on them that know not God…
when He comes to be glorified in His saints.” — 2 Thessalonians 1:7–10.
Not two separate events. One return. One glory. One judgment.

3. “The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.” — Revelation 20:5–6
If the first resurrection happens after the tribulation and before the millennium,
how is there room for your secret, pre-trib rapture seven years earlier?

4. “We who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.” — 1 Thessalonians 4:15
Again — the coming, not a partial coming, not a secret prequel.

Click to expand...

When I get a chance I will repost and discuss these scriptures here - Rapture event - Poll.

The Gospel of Christ said:

As for your accusation that my belief “incriminates God as evil and a liar” —
that’s blasphemous projection.

Click to expand...

Great to hear you say that. Now please explain why you say that.

Take my line and start with ''this line is false, for reasons A, B and C''.

The Gospel of Christ said:

You say this is a Romans 14:5 “disagreement”?
Paul was talking about days of the week, not eschatologies that rewrite the return of Christ and split the Body of Christ into VIP rapture tiers and second-class tribulation leftovers.

Click to expand...

Paul is referencing any immaterial disagreement using days of the week as an example.

The Gospel of Christ said:

You want to talk about the millennium? Sure.

“Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection… they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.” — Revelation 20:6

But that first resurrection happens after the tribulation —
Which means no one is reigning during the millennium except those who endured through it.

Click to expand...

You missed the reason for me mentioning it. Please reread and try again.

The Gospel of Christ said:

So again:
There is one Second Coming,
One resurrection,
One gathering,
One Church.

Not two comings.
Not two peoples.
Not two gospels.

That’s what Jesus taught.
That’s what Paul preached.
That’s what I believe.

You want to debate fantasy timelines?
Go find Scofield’s grave and argue with him.

Click to expand...

Separate topics, not sure why you group them.

The Gospel of Christ said:

I’ll stick with Christ.

Click to expand...

But you are not. You are sticking with your own belief and do not care if it incriminates Him.

Thereby failing terribly at your 'one' job.

2 Cor 5:20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

Garee said:

Catholicism I would suggest they teach the resurrection on the last day under the Sun that some call rapture has occurred. Not understanding the spiritual unseen things of God, they must look to the Pagan foundation of the worldly religions ."Out of sight out of mind"

Christ our God calls them fools (no invisible ruling God in their thoughts) The universal religion "reincarnation" gender confusion or change in creature design .

Suffering Limbo for the younger sinners and Purgatory for the more mature, the doctrine of wondering, wondering, over and over.

Save the Queen mother named after our blessed sister in the Lord Mary teaching she .. alone received the fullness of grace whole cost of salvation the rest of the planet a unknown, unknowable amount continues to suffer and wonder.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth (sola scriptura) have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

The Faith of Christ's labor of love. His repenting comforting love calling back some whose faith was overthrown

There can be differences as oral traditions amongst believers called heresies as long as they do not do despite the fullness of Christ the husband's grace

Click to expand...

See the OP here - PROBLEMS WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH for the items I agree with you on and here - So tired of all the ignorant bashing of Catholics for those I don't.

KingJ said:

Your opinion is that there is no rapture. You arrive at that belief because you cherry pick scripture. You quote Matt 24:29-31 but ignore Matt 24:1-28.



You are most certainly not standing on the word of God.

Scripture says that God is not evil, unjust or a liar. You are pushing a belief that suggests He is.



When I get a chance I will repost and discuss these scriptures here - Rapture event - Poll.



Great to hear you say that. Now please explain why you say that.

Take my line and start with ''this line is false, for reasons A, B and C''.



Paul is referencing any immaterial disagreement using days of the week as an example.



You missed the reason for me mentioning it. Please reread and try again.



Separate topics, not sure why you group them.



But you are not. You are sticking with your own belief and do not care if it incriminates Him.

Thereby failing terribly at your 'one' job.

2 Cor 5:20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

Click to expand...

You said:
"Your opinion is that there is no rapture… You cherry pick Scripture."

False.
I’m not denying a rapture — I’m denying your timing.
I believe what the Bible says: there is a rapture — but it happens after the tribulation, at the last trumpet, and on the Day of the Lord — not in some invisible sneak-away fantasy from Scofield’s imagination.
Cherry-picking? I quoted Jesus Christ Himself, in context:

“Immediately after the tribulation… He will gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31
What did I “cherry-pick”? Be specific. Jesus literally lays out the order of events in that chapter. No secrets. No gaps. No Scofield footnotes.

You said:
“You are most certainly not standing on the Word of God.”
“You’re pushing a belief that suggests He is evil, unjust, or a liar.”

That’s projection, not exegesis.
You’re the one defending a doctrine that says Jesus’ own words don’t apply to the Church, that His warnings were “for the Jews” only, and that His second coming is actually two separate comings.
Let’s be real: your doctrine divides the body of Christ into “rapture elite” and “tribulation peasants.” That’s your injustice — not mine.

You said:
“When I get a chance I’ll discuss these Scriptures…”

Yeah, I bet.
Because you can’t reconcile them with your doctrine.

“At the last trumpet…”
(1 Corinthians 15:52) — not the first, not a secret. The last.
You can’t get “seven years earlier” from last unless you rewrite the Bible.

2 Thessalonians 1:7–10 — shows Jesus’ return as one event: vengeance + glory.
There’s no two-stage divide. Paul never taught it. Scofield did.

Revelation 20:5–6 — “This is the first resurrection.”
If the dead in Christ rise after the tribulation… what on earth rose in your fake, invisible pre-trib rapture?

1 Thessalonians 4:15–17 — “At the coming of the Lord…”
Not a coming. The coming. There is no partial coming in Scripture. That’s fantasy theology.

You said:
“This line is false, for reasons A, B, and C…”

Sure. Let’s try that.
“Immediately after the tribulation…” is false?
Then Jesus is a liar. Want to stand on that in front of the throne?

“At the last trumpet…” is false?
Then Paul is confused. Show me the trumpet that comes after the last.

“This is the first resurrection…” is false?
Then the book of Revelation has no meaning, and “first” doesn’t mean first.

You want reasons A, B, and C?
A — Scripture doesn’t teach two comings.
B — There’s only one resurrection of the righteous.
C — The Church is never promised escape — it’s promised endurance. (Matthew 24:13)

You said:
“Paul is referencing any immaterial disagreement…”

Wrong.
Romans 14:5 is about non-doctrinal disputes — meat, holidays, conscience issues.
Paul isn’t saying we can have contradictory end-times timelines that gut the words of Christ.
If he were, he wouldn’t have spent two full letters (1–2 Thessalonians) correcting false end-times views.

You said:
“Separate topics, not sure why you group them.”

Because Scripture groups them.
The coming of Christ, the resurrection, the gathering, and the millennial reign are all part of one unified timeline — and the Word does not support slicing them up like Scofield’s theological pizza.

You said:
“But you are not sticking with Christ.”

Wrong again.
You’re following Scofield. I’m following the red letters.
You believe Christ comes back halfway, quietly, to evacuate a VIP club before it gets messy — but that’s not what Jesus taught.

He said:
“If they say, ‘He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it… for as lightning flashes from the east to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.” — Matthew 24:26–27

The rapture is not hidden.
The tribulation is not skippable.
And the return of Christ is not for the privileged few.

You want to be an ambassador for Christ?
Then stop defending a doctrine that severs His return in half, denies His own words, and turns the Church into an escapist delusion club.

As for me?
I’ll stand with the Word.
Not Scofield. Not Darby. Not Margaret MacDonald.
The Word.

“Sanctify them by the truth — Your Word is truth.” — John 17:17

KingJ said:

See the OP here - PROBLEMS WITH THE CATHOLIC CHURCH for the items I agree with you on and here - So tired of all the ignorant bashing of Catholics for those I don't.

Click to expand...

Bashing or loving by offering the gospel ?(sola scriptura)

Because the kingdom of God does not come after observing the temporal dying things seen there must be heresies as personal commentaries to what the individual understands when they seek the approval of God according the loving commandment study. 2 Tim 2:15 Called private interpretations every man has a oral tradition or an opinion

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Some celebrate Christmas some not e.t.c. Those oral traditons are not damnable or judgable as long as if they do not do despite to the fulness of Grace the complete cost of salvation

As a oral tradition of Catholicism they teach that a Quen mother of heaven alone received the fulness of grace and the rest of the world an unknown unknowable amount of grace .Therefore after they die they must continue to suffer and wonder .

False prophets false apostles as teachers. No salvation just limbo and purgatory

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

The Gospel of Christ said:

You said:
"Your opinion is that there is no rapture… You cherry pick Scripture."

False.
I’m not denying a rapture — I’m denying your timing.
I believe what the Bible says: there is a rapture — but it happens after the tribulation, at the last trumpet, and on the Day of the Lord — not in some invisible sneak-away fantasy from Scofield’s imagination.
Cherry-picking? I quoted Jesus Christ Himself, in context:

Click to expand...

The rapture in context has always meant a rescue plan. IE pre or mid trib rescue plan. Post is not really a rescue plan. But, yes well done, you can read a dictionary.

You are dancing. I gave evidence of your cherry picking and a link to a thread where the rapture was discussed. I don't feel like starting a new one here when you have shown no effort into disproving it.

The Gospel of Christ said:

“Immediately after the tribulation… He will gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31
What did I “cherry-pick”? Be specific. Jesus literally lays out the order of events in that chapter. No secrets. No gaps. No Scofield footnotes.

You said:
“You are most certainly not standing on the Word of God.”
“You’re pushing a belief that suggests He is evil, unjust, or a liar.”

That’s projection, not exegesis.
You’re the one defending a doctrine that says Jesus’ own words don’t apply to the Church, that His warnings were “for the Jews” only, and that His second coming is actually two separate comings.
Let’s be real: your doctrine divides the body of Christ into “rapture elite” and “tribulation peasants.” That’s your injustice — not mine.

Click to expand...

I feel the point I have made is flying over your head. Please reread and try again.

The Gospel of Christ said:

You said:
“When I get a chance I’ll discuss these Scriptures…”

Yeah, I bet.
Because you can’t reconcile them with your doctrine.

Click to expand...

I gave you a link to a thread that already exists, a thread where we have all already discussed scripture.

The Gospel of Christ said:

You said:
“This line is false, for reasons A, B, and C…”

Sure. Let’s try that.
“Immediately after the tribulation…” is false?
Then Jesus is a liar. Want to stand on that in front of the throne?
“At the last trumpet…” is false?
Then Paul is confused. Show me the trumpet that comes after the last.

“This is the first resurrection…” is false?
Then the book of Revelation has no meaning, and “first” doesn’t mean first.

You want reasons A, B, and C?
A — Scripture doesn’t teach two comings.
B — There’s only one resurrection of the righteous.
C — The Church is never promised escape — it’s promised endurance. (Matthew 24:13)

Click to expand...

Are you being serious?

If I say that you are FAT because you eat too much food. If you disagree, you need to say ''false, I am not fat because I each too much food, I am fat because I never exercise''. What you have done here is as bad as saying...No I am not fat, as the moon orbits earth when the earth orbits the sun and the stars are aligned in the third month of the fifth year when gremlins come out to play".

Please try again. A, B and C are not rebuttals to the very simple, sane and logical arguments raised.

The Gospel of Christ said:

You said:
“Paul is referencing any immaterial disagreement…”

Wrong.
Romans 14:5 is about non-doctrinal disputes — meat, holidays, conscience issues.
Paul isn’t saying we can have contradictory end-times timelines that gut the words of Christ.
If he were, he wouldn’t have spent two full letters (1–2 Thessalonians) correcting false end-times views.

Click to expand...

I cannot believe you would type this. Paul wrote that so that people would not argue on silly matters. Are you really disputing that? He chose days to make his case......one would think that be obvious.....

Disagreeing on the rapture timing is not a Rom 14:5 type disagreement. I like how you threw that in there.....

The Gospel of Christ said:

You said:
“Separate topics, not sure why you group them.”

Because Scripture groups them.
The coming of Christ, the resurrection, the gathering, and the millennial reign are all part of one unified timeline — and the Word does not support slicing them up like Scofield’s theological pizza.

Click to expand...

I have no words. Your mind is clearly on another planet.

The Gospel of Christ said:

You said:
“But you are not sticking with Christ.”

Wrong again.
You’re following Scofield. I’m following the red letters.
You believe Christ comes back halfway, quietly, to evacuate a VIP club before it gets messy — but that’s not what Jesus taught.

Click to expand...

Oh ok, because they in red, got it.

The Gospel of Christ said:

He said:
“If they say, ‘He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it… for as lightning flashes from the east to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.” — Matthew 24:26–27

The rapture is not hidden.
The tribulation is not skippable.
And the return of Christ is not for the privileged few.

You want to be an ambassador for Christ?
Then stop defending a doctrine that severs His return in half, denies His own words, and turns the Church into an escapist delusion club.

Click to expand...

You seem oblivious to the fact that our ambassadorial duties are to the lost who do not know scripture.

They have however got working brains and those working brains will conclude exactly what I have on your belief.

So, instead of playing a game with me on what scripture is valid and what is not, explain to me how YOUR belief does not incriminate God. How my three accusations of it are incorrect.

The Gospel of Christ said:

As for me?
I’ll stand with the Word.

Click to expand...

It is crystal clear that you don't. You are unwilling to defend accusations of your belief. You seem to think you can dance away from them and people will forget.

I will repost them for you, help you focus.


Not believing in a pre or mid trib rapture event incriminates God as evil, unjust and makes Him out to be a liar.

Evil = God abandons His people in the most terrifying period on earth in all of human history Matt 24:21.

Unjust = Scripture is clear that His wrath will fall on earth, thereby..... torturing and killing many indiscriminately, even the righteous.

Liar = You can confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord Rom 10:9 all day and night, for many, it will not get them into heaven according to Rev 14:11.

The Gospel of Christ said:

Not Scofield. Not Darby. Not Margaret MacDonald.
The Word.

“Sanctify them by the truth — Your Word is truth.” — John 17:17

Click to expand...

The devil quoted scripture in Matt 4. All you have proven is that like him, you can also quote scripture.

A Christian has '''one'' job and if you cannot answer my accusations, you fail at it.

KingJ said:

The rapture in context has always meant a rescue plan. IE pre or mid trib rescue plan. Post is not really a rescue plan. But, yes well done, you can read a dictionary.

You are dancing. I gave evidence of your cherry picking and a link to a thread where the rapture was discussed. I don't feel like starting a new one here when you have shown no effort into disproving it.



I feel the point I have made is flying over your head. Please reread and try again.



I gave you a link to a thread that already exists, a thread where we have all already discussed scripture.



Are you being serious?

If I say that you are FAT because you eat too much food. If you disagree, you need to say ''false, I am not fat because I each too much food, I am fat because I never exercise''. What you have done here is as bad as saying...No I am not fat, as the moon orbits earth when the earth orbits the sun and the stars are aligned in the third month of the fifth year when gremlins come out to play".

Please try again. A, B and C are not rebuttals to the very simple, sane and logical arguments raised.



I cannot believe you would type this. Paul wrote that so that people would not argue on silly matters. Are you really disputing that? He chose days to make his case......one would think that be obvious.....

Disagreeing on the rapture timing is not a Rom 14:5 type disagreement. I like how you threw that in there.....



I have no words. Your mind is clearly on another planet.



Oh ok, because they in red, got it.



You seem oblivious to the fact that our ambassadorial duties are to the lost who do not know scripture.

They have however got working brains and those working brains will conclude exactly what I have on your belief.

So, instead of playing a game with me on what scripture is valid and what is not, explain to me how YOUR belief does not incriminate God. How my three accusations of it are incorrect.



It is crystal clear that you don't. You are unwilling to defend accusations of your belief. You seem to think you can dance away from them and people will forget.

I will repost them for you, help you focus.


Not believing in a pre or mid trib rapture event incriminates God as evil, unjust and makes Him out to be a liar.

Evil = God abandons His people in the most terrifying period on earth in all of human history Matt 24:21.

Unjust = Scripture is clear that His wrath will fall on earth, thereby..... torturing and killing many indiscriminately, even the righteous.

Liar = You can confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord Rom 10:9 all day and night, for many, it will not get them into heaven according to Rev 14:11.



The devil quoted scripture in Matt 4. All you have proven is that like him, you can also quote scripture.

A Christian has '''one'' job and if you cannot answer my accusations, you fail at it.

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You said - “Not believing in a pre or mid trib rapture incriminates God as evil, unjust and makes Him out to be a liar.”

False on every level. And shame on you for saying it.

Let’s break it down:
“Evil = God abandons His people…”
No — God doesn’t abandon anyone.
He equips His people. He seals them. He walks with them through fire.

“Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou art with me…” — Psalm 23:4
“I will never leave you nor forsake you.” — Hebrews 13:5
“They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony…” — Revelation 12:11

Your doctrine implies God’s people are too weak to endure tribulation —
but God says His strength is made perfect in our weakness (2 Corinthians 12:9).
You want escape — Jesus promised endurance.


> “Unjust = God’s wrath tortures the righteous…”

There it is — the Scofield shell game.
You don’t know how to separate tribulation (which comes from the world and the Antichrist)
from God’s wrath (which comes after Christ returns).

God’s wrath falls after the rapture — not during tribulation. That’s the point.

“For the great day of His wrath is come…” — Revelation 6:17
“Immediately after the tribulation… He will gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31
“He will repay with affliction those who afflict you… when He comes.” — 2 Thessalonians 1:6–10

Jesus said we will have tribulation — but He never said His people would suffer His wrath. That’s your confusion, not Scripture’s.

> “Liar = Rev 14:11 contradicts Romans 10:9…”

You just said Romans 10:9 is voided by Revelation 14:11 —
but Rev 14:11 is about those who take the mark of the beast —
not believers.

No one accidentally “loses salvation” in Revelation.
They reject Christ, take the mark, and worship the Beast.

There’s no contradiction.
Unless your theology is a disjointed mess of timelines, which — shocker — Scofieldism is.

You keep calling me a cherry-picker while refusing to address the clearest, in-context, chronological words of Christ:
“Immediately after the tribulation… He will gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31
“At the last trumpet…” — 1 Corinthians 15:52
“This is the first resurrection.” — Revelation 20:5–6
“At the coming of the Lord…” — 1 Thessalonians 4:15

Not before. Not secret. Not split.
One coming. One resurrection. One gathering. All after tribulation.
The rest is Scofieldian sci-fi.

You said:
“Explain how your belief doesn’t make God evil.”

My belief exalts God as just, faithful, and true.
Your belief makes Him:

contradict His own Son,

violate His own Word,

and play favorites with a theological VIP lounge.

I believe what Jesus said, in the order He said it.

You believe:
“No no — those are Jewish red letters. We follow Paul. Until we don’t.”
Sorry, I follow both. Because they preached the same Gospel.

You said:
“Your mind is clearly on another planet.”

Correction: my mind is in Scripture.
Your mind is on Darby’s charts and Scofield’s footnotes, trying to perform theological gymnastics to escape the very tribulation Jesus said we’d go through.

“The devil quoted Scripture in Matthew 4…”
Yes, and he twisted it out of context, just like Dispensationalists do when they carve up the Second Coming into two phases, erase Matthew 24 from Church teaching, and pretend Revelation 20 doesn’t say what it says.

You say:
“Christians have one job.”
Correct. And that job is to preach the truth — not Scofield’s escapist fantasy.

Here’s the bottom line:
You want a secret, split return of Christ that’s never once described in Scripture.
You want the Church to vanish quietly, untested, unrefined, unfaithful.

But Jesus said:
“He who endures to the end shall be saved.” — Matthew 24:13
“Take up your cross and follow Me.” — Luke 9:23
“Blessed are those who are persecuted…” — Matthew 5:10

Your doctrine makes God evil for not evacuating His people.
Mine makes Him glorious for empowering them to overcome.

So no — I’m not dancing.
I’m just not playing by the Scofield rulebook.
I’ll stick with the Word.

You said you’re ready to stand before the throne with your view?
Then you better hope Jesus is fine with you calling His own words irrelevant.

As for me?
I’ll take the red letters.
I’ll take the Cross.
And I’ll take the King returning in glory — once, not twice — just as He promised.