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The Land God promised Abraham

Dave M

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Joined
Oct 2, 2015
Messages
4,937
I often hear people say God has not given all the land to Isreal yet that he promised Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. And that is just one reason lots of people like to separate the church and Isreal claiming he is not finished with Isreal.

I have been bothered by the idea people think God has two households or two flocks of people since I see only one flock of people.

So what does scripture say about God's promise to Abraham, Issac and Jacob

Joshua 21:43
Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there.

Kings 8-56
“Blessed be the LORD who has given rest to his people Israel, according to all that he promised. Not one word has failed of all his good promise, which he spoke by Moses his servant.
 
I often hear people say God has not given all the land to Israel yet that he promised Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. And that is just one reason lots of people like to separate the church and Israel claiming he is not finished with Israel.

I have been bothered by the idea people think God has two households or two flocks of people since I see only one flock of people.

So what does scripture say about God's promise to Abraham, Issac and Jacob

Joshua 21:43
Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there.

Kings 8-56
“Blessed be the LORD who has given rest to his people Israel, according to all that he promised. Not one word has failed of all his good promise, which he spoke by Moses his servant.
Hello @Dave M,

Israel does not currently occupied all of the land promised. Though they did in Solomon's day I believe. They will do so eventually though. God has not finished with Israel.

There is much to be occupied in the New Heaven and the New Earth, and we read in Scripture of three spheres of blessing. 'The Earth', 'Far above all heavens', 'The New Jerusalem', and they will be occupied by different callings I believe. 'Israel as a redeemed nation', 'The Bride the Lamb's wife', and 'The Body of Christ' - all the redeemed of the Lord.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Hello @Dave M,

These are the references for each sphere of blessing:-

(1) The Earth. - (Matthew 5:5).
(2) The Heavenly City. - (Hebrews12:22-23).
(3) Far above all. - (Ephesians 4:10 & Ephesians 2:6)).
These three spheres of blessing correspond to three distinct callings :
(1) The Earthly Kingdom. - (Matthew 6:10).
(2) The Bride. - (Revelation 21:9,10).
(3) The Joint-Body. - (Colossians 1:24-26; Ephesians 3:3-6).

* These three spheres of blessing, each with its special calling, have associated with them three groups of people in the New Testament. The first sphere of blessing is exclusive to ISRAEL according to the flesh; the second to faithful believers from among both `JEW AND GREEK', while in the third sphere the calling is addressed to `YOU GENTILES'.

(1) Israel according to the flesh.(Romans 9:3-5)
(2) Abraham's seed (includes believing Gentiles) - (Galatians 3:3,7,9,27-29).
If, at the end of Galatians 3:28, we `shut the book', we may `prove' that the blessed unity indicated by the words`neither Jew nor Greek' refers to the 'Church which is His Body'. If, however, we keep the book open, we see that such is not the sequel, but that this new company are `Abraham's seed', and the hope before them `the promise' made to Abraham. Yet we must remember that 1 Thessalonians and Galatians were both written before Acts 28, and therefore before the revelation of the Mystery. The hope then of 1 Thessalonians 4 belongs to the same calling as that of Galatians and cannot constitute the hope of the Mystery.​
(3) The One New Man. - (Colossians 3:11; Ephesians 2:15; Ephesians 3:6).

(1) Kingdom on earth. - HOPE. Matthew 24 and 25.
(2) Abraham's seed. - HOPE OF ISRAEL . 1 Thessalonians 4.
(3) Far above all. - HOPE. Colossians 3:4.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
I often hear people say God has not given all the land to Isreal yet that he promised Abraham

One of the things some preachers forget, is the promise was to "all" of Abraham's descendants. That would include Ishmael.
Yes Canaan was specifically promised to Isaac's line (the Jews). But most of the rest of the middle east could apply to the Arabs/Palestinians.

Gen 12:7; The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land." So he built an altar there to the LORD who had appeared to him.
Gen 15:18; On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, "To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates:

Deut 11:24; "Every place on which the sole of your foot treads shall be yours; your border will be from the wilderness to Lebanon, and from the river, the river Euphrates, as far as the western sea.
Josh 1:4; "From the wilderness and this Lebanon, even as far as the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and as far as the Great Sea toward the setting of the sun will be your territory.

Gen 17:8; "I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."
Gen 37:1; Now Jacob lived in the land where his father had sojourned, in the land of Canaan.
 
I often hear people say God has not given all the land to Isreal yet that he promised Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. And that is just one reason lots of people like to separate the church and Isreal claiming he is not finished with Isreal.
God did give all the land in the middle east from Nile to Euphrates to Abraham, but here's the catch: that was to Abraham's descendants. When it came down to Jacob the grandson though, all he got was the strip of Holy Land from the Mediterranean Sea to Jordan River. What about the rest? Well, that was given to Ishmael - the Arabs!
 
The first sphere of blessing is exclusive to ISRAEL according to the flesh;

HI complete thanks for your response

I am not finding any scripture that states this, as a matter of fact, what I find is the opposite,

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Matthew 21
42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.This is from the Lord,and it is marvelous in our eyes’k?
43 Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.


I can not help but think of this verse when I read what you have said, it seems to give a false hope to peopl who live in the flesh with our christ, I am sure you are sinere and beleive it with all your heart, so know I respect you and am just trying to see how you can see these things that way

Galatians 1 6-8
6I am amazed how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—
7which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ.
 
HI complete thanks for your response

I am not finding any scripture that states this, as a matter of fact, what I find is the opposite,

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Matthew 21
42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:‘The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.This is from the Lord,and it is marvelous in our eyes’k?
43 Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.


I can not help but think of this verse when I read what you have said, it seems to give a false hope to peopl who live in the flesh with our christ, I am sure you are sinere and beleive it with all your heart, so know I respect you and am just trying to see how you can see these things that way

Galatians 1 6-8
6I am amazed how quickly you are deserting the One who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—

7which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ.
'For all the promises of God
in Him are yea, and in him Amen,
unto the glory of God by us.'
(2 Cor. 1:20)

Hello @Dave M.

Thank you for replying.

Israel will inherit the land promised to them, for God's promises are 'Yea' and 'Amen' (2 Corinthians 1:20).

'And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer,
and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is My covenant unto them,
when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the gospel,
they are enemies for your sakes:
but as touching the election,
they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.'
For the gifts and calling of God
are without repentance.'

(Rom 11:26-29)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Israel will inherit the land promised to them,

when you say Isreal I think you mean a natural-born Jew, so again I find this is the opposite of what scripture teaches. Clearly, this scripture teaches us that it is based on faith and not skin that will receive the promise.

Rom 4:13 Clearly, God’s promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God’s law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith. (NLT)

Rom 2:28 For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision.



It says all isreal will be saved, I think you actually think that means the flesh-born Jew, and I would also, except when we look at scripture to define scripture we find out that is not the case.

Ephesians 3:6 "This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus."



Romans 9:6-8

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Complete I do appreciate your replies
 
when you say Israel I think you mean a natural-born Jew, so again I find this is the opposite of what scripture teaches. Clearly, this scripture teaches us that it is based on faith and not skin that will receive the promise.

Rom 4:13 Clearly, God’s promise to give the whole earth to Abraham and his descendants was based not on his obedience to God’s law, but on a right relationship with God that comes by faith. (NLT)

Rom 2:28 For you are not a true Jew just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the ceremony of circumcision.



It says all isreal will be saved, I think you actually think that means the flesh-born Jew, and I would also, except when we look at scripture to define scripture we find out that is not the case.

Ephesians 3:6 "This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus."



Romans 9:6-8

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Complete I do appreciate your replies
'And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written,
There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer,
and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:
but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.'
(Rom 11:26)

Hello @Dave M,

I believe that Israel as a nation will be born again in a day. They will see Him Whom they have pierced, and will mourn for Him. They will come to repentance. It is a redeemed Israel who will inherit the land. God will forgive their sins, and will fulfill the purposes He has for that nation, and they will receive the promises made to them. ' For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance' (Romans 11:29).

Thank you Dave, I appreciate your responses too.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris
 
when you say Isreal I think you mean a natural-born Jew, so again I find this is the opposite of what scripture teaches. Clearly, this scripture teaches us that it is based on faith and not skin that will receive the promise.
First of all by biblical definition, "Israel" refers to the Northern Kingdom of ten tribes, commonly represented by the most prosperous one, Ephraim; this kingdom was disinherited for their worship of pagan idols, and all Samaritans in the NT were remnants of Ephraim. Yeshua called it "Lost House of Israel". "Jews" on the other hand refers to the Southern Kingdom of Judah, consisted of Judah, Benjamin and some Levites.

The Holy Land was given to the original twelve tribes of Israel and divided among them, which was recorded in details in the book of Joshua; however, as I mentioned, that was a PROPHETIC PICTURE of what was to come. Forty years in the wilderness is a prophetic picture of a follower's spiritual journey, and the Promised Land is the kingdom of heaven. In the NT this is NOT talking about that tiny strip of land in the Middle East anymore, Paul was using this familiar concept to demonstrate the intangible concepts of spiritual journey and the kingdom of heaven.

If you have read the Torah, you would know that nobody made it into the Promised Land except Joshua and Caleb, all who came out of Egypt, including Moses, eventually perished in the wilderness, all who followed Joshua and Caleb into the Promised Land were the next generation born in the wilderness. What this means is that your old fleshly body will continue to toil in the soil, eat earthly manna for food and perish at the end, only your born-again spiritual life can enter into the kingdom. Again, this is NOT limited to Jews, but all God's people who are red-pilled by the Holy Spirit and brought out of the darkness of Egypt.
 
I often hear people say God has not given all the land to Isreal yet that he promised Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. And that is just one reason lots of people like to separate the church and Isreal claiming he is not finished with Isreal.

I have been bothered by the idea people think God has two households or two flocks of people since I see only one flock of people.

So what does scripture say about God's promise to Abraham, Issac and Jacob

Joshua 21:43
Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there.

Kings 8-56
“Blessed be the LORD who has given rest to his people Israel, according to all that he promised. Not one word has failed of all his good promise, which he spoke by Moses his servant.
Hi Dave,

I know we often don't see things the same way, but, if you'll permit me I can show you that not only has the land not been given to them, but that it is that land that is the inheritance of both Christ and the Christian. Let me start off by saying I agree with you that there are not two plans or destinies, one for Israel and one for the Church. There is one plan.

There are a few things to keep in mind. The land in the passages you referenced above ws given to Israel under a conditional covenant. The promise to Abraham was unconditional. So, Israel going into the land doesn't fulfill the promise to Abraham.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. (Gal. 3:17-19 KJV)


Here Paul says that the Law cannot disannul the promise. The promise is fourfold. God promised to give Abraham, the land, to make him the father of a great nation, to make him the father or many nations, and that all the nations would be blessed through him. This promise was unconditional.

10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
(Gen. 22:10-18 KJV)

Because Abraham obeyed God, God swore an oath to Abraham. This is the promise. It's unconditional. Paul argues that Israel later inheriting the land cannot break this promise.

We are told plainly, that Abraham was promised that land, and we are told plainly that he never inherited it.

For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. (Gen. 13:15 KJV)

Acts 7:2–5 (KJV 1900): Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran, 3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee. 4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell. 5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

This land promise was made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and to their Seed, which Paul tells us in Gal 3:16 is Christ. Neither, Abraham, Isaac, nor Jacob, ever inherited that land. that means that the only way that God can fulfill this promise is through the Resurrection.

For me to go into all of this will require a lot of space here. Instead of posting multiple long posts I'm going to link to an article or small booklet I've written on this very subject. It's kind of long, but it has plenty of Scripture to document what I've said. There is also historical evidence to show this was the early Christian understanding. Here's the link, The Kingdom of God, a Biblical Perspective. I do encourage you to read it. I believe it will answer many of your questions.
 
Hi Dave,

I know we often don't see things the same way, but, if you'll permit me I can show you that not only has the land not been given to them, but that it is that land that is the inheritance of both Christ and the Christian. Let me start off by saying I agree with you that there are not two plans or destinies, one for Israel and one for the Church. There is one plan.

There are a few things to keep in mind. The land in the passages you referenced above ws given to Israel under a conditional covenant. The promise to Abraham was unconditional. So, Israel going into the land doesn't fulfill the promise to Abraham.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. (Gal. 3:17-19 KJV)

Here Paul says that the Law cannot disannul the promise. The promise is fourfold. God promised to give Abraham, the land, to make him the father of a great nation, to make him the father or many nations, and that all the nations would be blessed through him. This promise was unconditional.

10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. (Gen. 22:10-18 KJV)

Because Abraham obeyed God, God swore an oath to Abraham. This is the promise. It's unconditional. Paul argues that Israel later inheriting the land cannot break this promise.

We are told plainly, that Abraham was promised that land, and we are told plainly that he never inherited it.

For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. (Gen. 13:15 KJV)

Acts 7:2–5 (KJV 1900): Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran, 3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee. 4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell. 5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

This land promise was made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and to their Seed, which Paul tells us in Gal 3:16 is Christ. Neither, Abraham, Isaac, nor Jacob, ever inherited that land. that means that the only way that God can fulfill this promise is through the Resurrection.

For me to go into all of this will require a lot of space here. Instead of posting multiple long posts I'm going to link to an article or small booklet I've written on this very subject. It's kind of long, but it has plenty of Scripture to document what I've said. There is also historical evidence to show this was the early Christian understanding. Here's the link, The Kingdom of God, a Biblical Perspective. I do encourage you to read it. I believe it will answer many of your questions.
Bingo, you nailed it. There's the Book of the Law and there's the Book of the Covenant. God's promise to Abraham was an unconditional covenant, exactly as you said, but this covenant was formerly ratified at Mount Sinai, but less than 40 days it was BROKEN because Israelites committed spiritual adultery by worshiping a golden calf. When Moses came down and saw that, he literally dropped and broke the first set of stone tablets. Later he went up Mount Sinai again to ask for forgiveness, this time he received the Book of the Law, which was conditional like a contract. They got all kinds of rules and regulations, they had to sacrifice animals to cover their sins, and there were all these blessings for their obedience and curses for their disobedience. Since they failed to uphold the Covenant, the Law was given as a bandaid until Yeshua came to ratify the New Covenant, prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
 
Hi Dave,

I know we often don't see things the same way, but, if you'll permit me I can show you that not only has the land not been given to them, but that it is that land that is the inheritance of both Christ and the Christian. Let me start off by saying I agree with you that there are not two plans or destinies, one for Israel and one for the Church. There is one plan.

There are a few things to keep in mind. The land in the passages you referenced above ws given to Israel under a conditional covenant. The promise to Abraham was unconditional. So, Israel going into the land doesn't fulfill the promise to Abraham.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. (Gal. 3:17-19 KJV)

Here Paul says that the Law cannot disannul the promise. The promise is fourfold. God promised to give Abraham, the land, to make him the father of a great nation, to make him the father or many nations, and that all the nations would be blessed through him. This promise was unconditional.

10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. (Gen. 22:10-18 KJV)

Because Abraham obeyed God, God swore an oath to Abraham. This is the promise. It's unconditional. Paul argues that Israel later inheriting the land cannot break this promise.

We are told plainly, that Abraham was promised that land, and we are told plainly that he never inherited it.

For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. (Gen. 13:15 KJV)

Acts 7:2–5 (KJV 1900): Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran, 3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee. 4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell. 5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child.

This land promise was made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and to their Seed, which Paul tells us in Gal 3:16 is Christ. Neither, Abraham, Isaac, nor Jacob, ever inherited that land. that means that the only way that God can fulfill this promise is through the Resurrection.

For me to go into all of this will require a lot of space here. Instead of posting multiple long posts I'm going to link to an article or small booklet I've written on this very subject. It's kind of long, but it has plenty of Scripture to document what I've said. There is also historical evidence to show this was the early Christian understanding. Here's the link, The Kingdom of God, a Biblical Perspective. I do encourage you to read it. I believe it will answer many of your questions.

@Butch5
we may disagree on a few things, but Jesus is Lord and savior and I know we agree on that !! thanks for the link it looks very interesting, and I am following most of what you wrote and hold on to your hat I seem to agree with it so far :) ................Love how you said salvation gets you into the kingdom,,,, always enjoy your perspective on things. This is thing is really put together well and easy to follow along
 
@Butch5
we may disagree on a few things, but Jesus is Lord and savior and I know we agree on that !! thanks for the link it looks very interesting, and I am following most of what you wrote and hold on to your hat I seem to agree with it so far :) ................Love how you said salvation gets you into the kingdom,,,, always enjoy your perspective on things. This is thing is really put together well and easy to follow along
Thanks! I appreciate it. My perspective is different because after many years of studying the Bible and Early church history, I've seen the original faith and where things have changed. I've also seen how everything pertains to Israel. In modern Christiamity Israel is almost an after though. It's all about the church. Some even say God is done with Israel. However, that's so not the case. God is not done with Israel. I mean, Christians are saved under the New Covenant, right? If we look at Jeremiah 31, God says through the prophet that the days are coming when He will make a "new covenant" with the houses of Judah and Isrsel. Jesus instituted that covenant with the bread and wine. So, we are actually saved under a covenant that God made with Israel. He didn't make a covenant with the Gentiles. That's why Paul, when speaking to the Gentile Christians at Rome, told them that they were grafted into the natural olive tree. It's all about Israel. We, as Gentiles have been given the opportunity to participate in those promises.
 
Thanks! I appreciate it. My perspective is different because after many years of studying the Bible and Early church history, I've seen the original faith and where things have changed. I've also seen how everything pertains to Israel. In modern Christianity Israel is almost an after though. It's all about the church. Some even say God is done with Israel. However, that's so not the case. God is not done with Israel. I mean, Christians are saved under the New Covenant, right? If we look at Jeremiah 31, God says through the prophet that the days are coming when He will make a "new covenant" with the houses of Judah and Israel. Jesus instituted that covenant with the bread and wine. So, we are actually saved under a covenant that God made with Israel. He didn't make a covenant with the Gentiles. That's why Paul, when speaking to the Gentile Christians at Rome, told them that they were grafted into the natural olive tree. It's all about Israel. We, as Gentiles have been given the opportunity to participate in those promises.
Hello @Butch5,

When salvation was sent to the Gentiles at Acts 28:28: salvation, though formerly 'of the Jews '(John 4:22), was now independent of Israel. Believers, both Jew and Gentile are now saved by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and not grafted into Israel's Olive Tree, which ceased to exist when Israel failed to acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah, in the land (as recorded in the gospels): and failed to acknowledge Christ Jesus the risen Lord( as recorded in the book of Acts) among the Jews of the dispersion. The day is yet to come when they will again become 'My People', though now back in the land.

The letters written by Paul to the Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, were written following Acts 28, and contain the revelation of God made known to Paul, concerning the Hope and Blessings which apply to this company of believers, who are independent of Israel, in both calling and inheritance. (see Ephesians chapter 1, and compare). This is the Church which is His Body,the fulness of Him that filleth all in all (Ephesians 1:22-23).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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not grafted into Israel's Olive Tree, which ceased to exist when Israel failed to acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah

Hello complete

The branches broken off the olive tree are the natural-born Jews that did not believe, there were plenty of Jews that believed and were still part of the olive tree. WE gentiles that believe are grafted in and share Jesus Christ with the natural Jew that believes in making us all one in Christ, But Paul warns us of also being broken off if we become proud. The root is Jesus Christ himself that supports us, that works through us.

Sister in Christ what scripture do you see that teaches the olive tree ceased to exist??

Romans 11:17-24

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

thanks
 
Hello @Butch5,

When salvation was sent to the Gentiles at Acts 28:28: salvation, though formerly 'of the Jews '(John 4:22), was now independent of Israel. Believers, both Jew and Gentile are now saved by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and not grafted into Israel's Olive Tree, which ceased to exist when Israel failed to acknowledge the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah, in the land (as recorded in the gospels): and failed to acknowledge Christ Jesus the risen Lord( as recorded in the book of Acts) among the Jews of the dispersion. The day is yet to come when they will again become 'My People', though now back in the land.

The letters written by Paul to the Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, were written following Acts 28, and contain the revelation of God made known to Paul, concerning the Hope and Blessings which apply to this company of believers, who are independent of Israel, in both calling and inheritance. (see Ephesians chapter 1, and compare). This is the Church which is His Body,the fulness of Him that filleth all in all (Ephesians 1:22-23).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Hi Chris, I'll have to respectfully disagree. Paul goes to great lengths to make the point in Romans 11 and Galatians 3 that believers are grafted into Israel (Romans 11) and that they are the seed of Abraham ( Gal. 3) by being "in Christ" Which makes them heirs according to the promise. The promise is the land that God promised Abraham. If you read the article I linked to I go into great detail on how this all works out. There is plenty of Scripture and church history to support this.
 
No Child of The LIVING GOD, wants The Planet, that is called Earth. or the dirt in it. :pensive: Although we "Inherit All, The seen and the unseen"that is and what is and what that is too come. Neither Did "ABRAHAM" wanted the place called Earth or live in it!.

"By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he left, not knowing where he was going. By faith he lived as a stranger in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; for he was looking for the city which has FOUNDATIONS, whose architect and BUILDER IS GOD.":pensive:

13All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen and welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. 15And indeed if they had been [k]thinking of that country which they left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, A HEAVENLY ONE. THEREFORE God is not [l]ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.:pensive:

No Child of GOD desirers anything on Planet EARTH even The "Millennium Rule".:pensive: But The HEAVENLY JERUSALEM That Rules from The Sky, That Holy CITY is another thing. But When GOD The FATHER, DESTROYS It ALL and MAKE Everything Brand New!:pensive: And The NEW JERUSALEM shall be there too. No more Oceans, no more Cars, no more Time, no more age, no more sickness, no more Doctors, no lawyers, no governors, no Presidents, no congress, no more sleep! All brand new, "No eyes have seen, Nor ears have heard, No minds have imagine. No More "SPECULATIONS"! N0 More LIES!, No more Prophets, No more Preachers, No more Ministers, No more Churches and NO MORE DENOMINATIONS!

So enjoy it now as much as you please, all of it, even the recorded books written by men and women, to influence, many minds.


But Be sure of this:
"Not One Stone, will remain":pensive:


"The one who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son"

…"And again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.” Therefore, stop boasting in men. All things are yours"!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Hello complete

The branches broken off the olive tree are the natural-born Jews that did not believe, there were plenty of Jews that believed and were still part of the olive tree. WE gentiles that believe are grafted in and share Jesus Christ with the natural Jew that believes in making us all one in Christ, But Paul warns us of also being broken off if we become proud. The root is Jesus Christ himself that supports us, that works through us.

Sister in Christ what scripture do you see that teaches the olive tree ceased to exist??

Romans 11:17-24

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

thanks
Hello Dave M,

I do not have a verse to give you. My reason for saying that the Olive tree ceased to exist, or, was 'cut down', is because Israel itself ceased to exist as a nation in AD70, being scattered among the nations, and the Olive Tree, in Romans 11, was being used symbolically by Paul of Israel's religious privileges (Judges 9:8-9 / Romans 11:17), which then, being Lo-ammi ('not my People'), were in abeyance.

Remembering:-
'For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down,
that it will sprout again,
and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Though the root thereof wax old in the earth,
and the stock thereof die in the ground;
Yet through the scent of water it will bud,
and bring forth boughs like a plant.'
(Job 14:7-9)

Within the love of Christ our Saviour
our Lord and Head.
Chris
 
Hi Chris, I'll have to respectfully disagree. Paul goes to great lengths to make the point in Romans 11 and Galatians 3 that believers are grafted into Israel (Romans 11) and that they are the seed of Abraham ( Gal. 3) by being "in Christ" Which makes them heirs according to the promise. The promise is the land that God promised Abraham. If you read the article I linked to I go into great detail on how this all works out. There is plenty of Scripture and church history to support this.
Hello @Butch5,

Yes, believing Gentiles during the Acts period were grafted into the Olive Tree of Israel (symbolic of Israel's religious privileges). They were indeed the seed of Abraham, and therefore heirs according to the promise. At the end of the Acts period an important change took place, for salvation was sent to the Gentiles, and salvation was no longer of the Jews only. ( Please read the previous post).

I have downloaded your booklet, and will read it, thank you. I have not been able to do so yet, because I have had vertigo, and unable to concentrate on anything requiring focus.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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