Hekuran said:

I raised this in post 6. Exodus 21:22-25 accords a different value to the life of a pregnant woman and to the unborn child. One is compensated as life, the other property.

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Plus this is obviously a situation where the child was not purposely killed, but while striking a pregnant woman, and the unborn child is killed as the result of the violence on the woman. In most abortions, its something done to get rid of an UNWANTED child conceived from lust, they want the pleasure but not the responsibility of raising a child, so they murder the child, because they have CHOSEN to believe its just a lump of flesh until its been born.

I'm not sure abortion, from a biblical perspective, has anything to do with the mother? Only the life of the baby. So the means of conception isn't relevant. I don't know of where the Bible actually defines the start of life. If you think the Bible doesn't forbid birth control, then life begins sometime after fertilization. I suspect at the first heartbeat, but that's not biblical.

bangorme said:

I'm not sure abortion, from a biblical perspective, has anything to do with the mother? Only the life of the baby. So the means of conception isn't relevant. I don't know of where the Bible actually defines the start of life. If you think the Bible doesn't forbid birth control, then life begins sometime after fertilization. I suspect at the first heartbeat, but that's not biblical.

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Well, I am trying to follow you, your thinking, whether you are siding, with the 'finite' mind concerning the womb and life or you are siding with the "Infinite GOD" the One that is "Incomprehensible" concerning "Life" and all that is "created" and exist.... by a "finite" mind of a mere mortal. But when i read the words that is recorded in the "Jeremiah" let alone some more entries in the Biblical Text of " The Holy Wit". So now let us exam, what is recorded in "JEREMIAH" what GOD, The "TETRAGRAMMATON" said:


New King James Version (Jeremiah 1)
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet TO THE NATIONS.”
New American Standard Bible
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

[ A child is alive before it is formed in the womb! Before you come from between your Mama's legs, you are A Living Being].

Now who are we going to believe, The WORD of GOD, or The "Scientific data" coming from a "finite" mind, that cannot comprehend the "Incomprehensibility" of A "Infinite" GOD.

And what did he say, "JESUS";
Berean Study Bible (Hebrews 10)
"Therefore, when Christ came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, BUT A BODY YOU PREPARED FOR ME."

Now let's go little back into history, when it was said and known that;
"Theology" was The Queen of all sciences and "Philosophy" was her handmaiden" and the modern day world have even jumble that historical quote. " The actual quote meant: "by the time the sciences had gotten there, Theology had been there and gone!" quick note: Not, this modern day religion that many called "Theology"

"For the LION has come out The Thicket"!

Now what to you think now? I hope that help. About the beginning of Life. And if you need more, Chrck the Book of "JOB" out.

Good points Plough. I looked at the verse you provided from Jeremiah. However, I'm not familiar with the concept of a "Prophet." I'm not sure then if God's pronouncement was specific to him, Prophets in general, or everyone.

bangorme said:

Good points Plough. I looked at the verse you provided from Jeremiah. However, I'm not familiar with the concept of a "Prophet." I'm not sure then if God's pronouncement was specific to him, Prophets in general, or everyone.

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For HE is "GOD" so HE cares for "You" just as HE cares for The "Prophet", and this is also a very small thing to HIM, but precious and very important to HIM, "For HIS eyes is on The Sparrow, so you know, HE watches over you"

(Matthew 6)
English Standard Version
"Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?"

And in (Matthew 10) ASV it says:
29Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? and not one of them shall fall on the ground without your Father: 30but the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows

For you are of more value than many sparrows. ........................... [before you got into your mother's womb, GOD knew you then, for HE is the One who place you there] For Jesus historical "Maternal Grand mothers" engage in the act of "incest" and another one, engaged in the act of "Prostitution' for this is how HIS body arrived into HIS mothers womb, Travel down through 42 Generations, to be delivered from between Mary's legs.

The True GOD according to The Holy Scriptures, must always be in The equation and not the "imagination"

The Genealogy of Jesus (Matthew 1)BSB
…16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 17In all, then, there were fourteen generations from Abraham to David,fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ. 18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about:"

The Genealogy of Jesus
(Ruth 4:18–22; Luke 3:23–38)

(Matthew 1)BSB
1This is the record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

2Abraham was the father of Isaac,
Isaac the father of Jacob,
and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers.

3Judah was the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar,
Perez the father of Hezron,
and Hezron the father of Ram.a

4Ram was the father of Amminadab,
Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
and Nahshon the father of Salmon.

5Salmon was the father of Boaz by Rahab,
Boaz the father of Obed by Ruth,
Obed the father of Jesse,

6and Jesse the father of David the king.
Next:
David was the father of Solomon by Uriah’s wife,

7Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
and Abijah the father of Asa.b

8Asa was the father of Jehoshaphat,
Jehoshaphat the father of Joram,
and Joram the father of Uzziah.

9Uzziah was the father of Jotham,
Jotham the father of Ahaz,
and Ahaz the father of Hezekiah.

10Hezekiah was the father of Manasseh,
Manasseh the father of Amon,c
Amon the father of Josiah,

11and Josiah the father of Jeconiah and his brothers
at the time of the exile to Babylon.

12After the exile to Babylon:
Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,

13Zerubbabel the father of Abiud,
Abiud the father of Eliakim,
and Eliakim the father of Azor.

14Azor was the father of Zadok,
Zadok the father of Achim,
and Achim the father of Eliud.

15Eliud was the father of Eleazar,
Eleazar the father of Matthan,
Matthan the father of Jacob,

16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary,
of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

17In all, then, there were fourteen generations from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ.

And if by Chance you have read your Bible From "Genesis to Revelation" you see so clearly the Characters the families and each person that is listed in the genealogy of Christ. clear into His birth and His Coronation back into "Eternity" and HE sits right back down on The Right Hand of The FATHER!

It is amazing How GOD The FATHER prepared His Body. That came out of Mary's womb as "The HOLY SPIRIT" plays the Whole story in your mind, as it is "Written in THE BOOK! In Which has been"ANOINTED" by "GOD"

New King James Version (Hebrews 5)
"Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me."

Everyone For there is only ONE Creator.

"The "Calvinistic" view is, that most people view of "GOD" is, too small. For HE is "BEYOND" a "FINITE mind can "conceived" or even "Imagine' for that mind is incapable to attempt to even do so. For is a "GREAT GOD" "THE TETRAGRAMMATON"

For it is Impossible to Describe HIM, with a "Finite mind" and The POWER HE HAS, For this GOD is BEYOND POWER, for HE CREATES POWER. For HE is "GOD" Wooooooo, Help Me JESUS! Help me to Tell it, just like it is. It is what it is

K9Buckeye said:

Thanks in advance.

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There is no place in the bible that condones punishing the innocent for the sins of the guilty.