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Can Salvation Be lost?

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Judas was chosen to do just as our Sovereign God planed. Nothing more nothing less.
It was about 35 years ago my osas view started changing along with some other Bible views.
I dont often stay in the osas battles as it becomes a circus of yes no yes no . Although it is a subject I enjoy :)
 
Reba1 said:
one place is 1 John 2:19
Click to expand...
NO incorrect - yet another OSAS misreading of scripture to support a doctrine not taught in scripture
1John 2:
18 Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour.
19 They [gnostics] went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, that it might be plain that they all are not of us. [those who preached another gospel]
20 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all know. 21 I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and know that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also.
24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you will abide in the Son and in the Father.
25 And this is what he has promised us, eternal life.

these verses are parallel to 2Peter 2 and Jude where people came into the churches to preach other gospels - this is not about saints leaving the body of Christ because they were not "truly" saved.
2Peter2:
1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
Jude 1:
3 Beloved, being very eager to write to you of our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
4 For admission has been secretly gained by some who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly persons who pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
 
Thank you for posting the passage . I have not yet figured out how to copy and paste in the tablet.
Verse 19 says what it says

Many people claim they are saved when there aren't like in verse 19.
Personally I am much more comforted trusting in His Grace then trusting in myself.
We see different things in His Word. I think I read you were once RCC. You understand Christianity differently today then at that time. I was once more Pentecostal then Christian , better to a Christian with Pentecostal leanings. I hope and pray to continue to grow in Him. I was as much saved as a Pentecostal ,about 65 years ago although I often doubted MY salvation. Knowing I have been bought by His blood I belong to Him not to me.
 
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Reba1 said:
Thank you for posting the passage . I have not yet figured out how to copy and paste in the tablet.
Verse 19 says what it says
Many people claim they are saved when there aren't like in verse 19.
Personally I am much more comforted trusting in His Grace then trusting in myself.
We see different things in His Word. I think I read you were once RCC. You understand Christianity differently today then at that time. I was once more Pentecostal then Christian, better to a Christian with Pentecostal leanings. I hope and pray to continue to grow in Him. I was as much saved as a Pentecostal ,about 65 years ago although I often doubted MY salvation. Knowing I have been bought by His blood I belong to Him not to me.
Click to expand...
But verse 19 does not state that - it is about anti-christs; people of another gospel challenging the faith and doctrine of the original Pentecostal church with alternative doctrines - we read of this danger in Galatians and 1Corinthians 15.
Stop reading into the scriptures what is not there.
A false claim by fans of OSAS is that not believing in OSAS disciples are in constant fear of losing their salvation and seek to confirm salvation through good works.
Perfect love casts out all fear - there is no lack of confidence or hope in my walk in the Spirit and in my love to serve God and the gospel. As long as I have my eyes fixed on the end prize the salvation of my soul and a
continuing love of righteousness I will overcome until the end.
As for good works every Christian is obligated to do these as disciples regardless of OSAS or not. In fact we are commanded to be zealous of good works.

Disciples, believers, Christians lose their salvation not because they were not "truly" saved but because they forgot to be doers of the Word and let their love for God and the gospel wane and lapse.
Hence the gospels and the epistles contain many many warnings about these perils of departing or falling away from faith.
 
Reba1 said:
Many people claim they are saved when there aren't like in verse 19.
Personally I am much more comforted trusting in His Grace then trusting in myself.
We see different things in His Word. I think I read you were once RCC. You understand Christianity differently today then at that time. I was once more Pentecostal then Christian , better to a Christian with Pentecostal leanings. I hope and pray to continue to grow in Him. I was as much saved as a Pentecostal ,about 65 years ago although I often doubted MY salvation. Knowing I have been bought by His blood I belong to Him not to me.
Click to expand...
Rev 2:1 To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: These things saith he who holdeth the seven stars in his right, who walketh midst the seven golden lampstands:
2:2 I know thy works, and thy toil and patience, and that thou canst not bear evil men, and didst try them that call themselves apostles, and they are not, and didst find them false;
2:3 and thou hast patience and didst bear for my name’s sake, and hast not grown weary.
2:4 But I have this against thee, that thou didst leave thy first love.
2:5 Remember therefore whence thou art fallen, and repent and do the first works; else I come to thee, and will move thy lampstand out of its place, except thou repent.
2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
2:7 Who hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches. To him that overcometh, to him will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.
 
Reba1 said:
Judas was chosen to do just as our Sovereign God planed. Nothing more nothing less.
It was about 35 years ago my osas view started changing along with some other Bible views.
I dont often stay in the osas battles as it becomes a circus of yes no yes no . Although it is a subject I enjoy :)
Click to expand...
That may be, but again, it shows God's people can be lost
 
Greetings folks,

may i lend a hand here?

Does anyone recall some sort of reference to people being lost?

Let us imagine [parable style] that a group of people are lost in a wilderness [don't have to imagine too hard] and of course we were at least once in that position. I mean lost lost.... totally no idea and simply doomed to perish.

Along comes a person equipped with a light and looking healthy. Even has some food and first-aid kit. The person assures you that he can save you... as in, lead you home... as in, out of the lost condition they are in in the wilderness.

GREAT!!!! YIPPPEEE!

and off they all start.
Now, along the way there are some treacherous looking paths and some hard going. Even a few savage critters and the occasional bandit.
It takes days, they are told, perhaps even weeks, to get out of the wilderness, depending on what happens and how many need time to be encouraged to go on, etc.

After a while, someone starts complaining. Then another starts throwing doubt in. Everyone is getting a pecking order with new found bravery and personal character traits creeping in.

Then, one day, one or two decide they don't trust the person anymore... they stop believing that this person offers 'salvation' because they figure that they know better or they are simply too afraid to go on and face any other obstacles NEEDED to overcome in order to reach their destination... being getting home and safe. Perhaps they stopped feeling safe? Lost confidence? Listened to the doubts and fears too much? Devised a plan to do better or was it those people they met along the way who were telling them all about a different way to go?

Others did likewise and stopped following the person who was leading them to safety. When the group came to a place where the person was going to lead them through even more desolate land and they saw other green and well watered areas that looked so much better, there were those who chose that more pleasurable looking land to set up camp and so the group, dwindled in numbers as it was, walked on. it was tough going and only those who trusted the person leading them, continued on. The person had promised them that he would get them home.

.... sorry, i am not a very good story teller....

in fact, i am feeling tired and
 
Butch5 said:
No one said He would disown anyone. People can turn away. As I said, it's clear in Scripture. Jesus said some believe for a while and in times of temptation turn away. It was the teaching of the church for 1500 years. The early Christians actually argued against the idea that one couldn't be lost. In the post to Reba I showed where Judas was lost. The OSAS idea only dates back in the church to the 1500's. However, it dates way back in history among Pagan groups. It was popular among Gnostic groups. Gnostics were groups that took Greek philosophy and mixed it with Christianity.
Click to expand...
You can't dismiss the very words of Jesus in the parable of the sower: "the seed sown on good soil is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and produces a crop—a hundredfold, sixtyfold, or thirtyfold.” these are those of us that are once saved always saved.
 
Br. Bear said:
Greetings folks,

may i lend a hand here?

Does anyone recall some sort of reference to people being lost?

Let us imagine [parable style] that a group of people are lost in a wilderness [don't have to imagine too hard] and of course we were at least once in that position. I mean lost lost.... totally no idea and simply doomed to perish.

Along comes a person equipped with a light and looking healthy. Even has some food and first-aid kit. The person assures you that he can save you... as in, lead you home... as in, out of the lost condition they are in in the wilderness.

GREAT!!!! YIPPPEEE!

and off they all start.
Now, along the way there are some treacherous looking paths and some hard going. Even a few savage critters and the occasional bandit.
It takes days, they are told, perhaps even weeks, to get out of the wilderness, depending on what happens and how many need time to be encouraged to go on, etc.

After a while, someone starts complaining. Then another starts throwing doubt in. Everyone is getting a pecking order with new found bravery and personal character traits creeping in.

Then, one day, one or two decide they don't trust the person anymore... they stop believing that this person offers 'salvation' because they figure that they know better or they are simply too afraid to go on and face any other obstacles NEEDED to overcome in order to reach their destination... being getting home and safe. Perhaps they stopped feeling safe? Lost confidence? Listened to the doubts and fears too much? Devised a plan to do better or was it those people they met along the way who were telling them all about a different way to go?

Others did likewise and stopped following the person who was leading them to safety. When the group came to a place where the person was going to lead them through even more desolate land and they saw other green and well watered areas that looked so much better, there were those who chose that more pleasurable looking land to set up camp and so the group, dwindled in numbers as it was, walked on. it was tough going and only those who trusted the person leading them, continued on. The person had promised them that he would get them home.

.... sorry, i am not a very good story teller....

in fact, i am feeling tired and
Click to expand...
Brother, "those who trusted the person leading them, continued on" were the one's who had faith, trust, and rest in their commanding officer: they were once saved always saved.
 
JerryfromMass said:
You can't dismiss the very words of Jesus in the parable of the sower: "the seed sown on good soil is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and produces a crop—a hundredfold, sixtyfold, or thirtyfold.” these are those of us that are once saved always saved.
Click to expand...
You can try to claim that, but the point is that some believed for a while and turned away. The question in the op is can salvation be lost. The passage clearly shows it can be.
 
I personally don't like the phrase "lose your salvation".
It's almost viewed like a set of car keys. Dang it - where did I put that salvation again? I must've left it in my other jacket.
Salvation doesn't accidentally get "lost". It isn't usually one sin or one mistake that causes you to get "un-saved".

No, it's a deliberate turning your back of God. It's a lifestyle of sin, and choosing to go back to that over God.
You don't have to fear or dread accidentally "losing" your salvation on an accident.
It's a conscious choice, a deliberate action. I choose sin over you Jesus.

Matt 5:29; "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matt 5:30; "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.
Matt 18:9; "If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.
Mark 9:43; "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
Mark 9:45; "If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell,
Mark 9:47; "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell,
 
Butch5 said:
You can try to claim that, but the point is that some believed for a while and turned away. The question in the op is can salvation be lost. The passage clearly shows it can be.
Click to expand...
No, Jesus clearly says in Matthew 13 some are once saved always saved. You can quit now.
 
B-A-C said:
I personally don't like the phrase "lose your salvation".
It's almost viewed like a set of car keys. Dang it - where did I put that salvation again? I must've left it in my other jacket.
Salvation doesn't accidentally get "lost". It isn't usually one sin or one mistake that causes you to get "un-saved".

No, it's a deliberate turning your back of God. It's a lifestyle of sin, and choosing to go back to that over God.
You don't have to fear or dread accidentally "losing" your salvation on an accident.
It's a conscious choice, a deliberate action. I choose sin over you Jesus.

Matt 5:29; "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
Matt 5:30; "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.
Matt 18:9; "If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.
Mark 9:43; "If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,
Mark 9:45; "If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life lame, than, having your two feet, to be cast into hell,
Mark 9:47; "If your eye causes you to stumble, throw it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into hell,
Click to expand...
Brother, you have clearly stated the proposition that those who fall away were never truly saved: "it's a deliberate turning your back of God. It's a lifestyle of sin, and choosing to go back to that over God. You don't have to fear or dread accidentally "losing" your salvation on an accident. It's a conscious choice, a deliberate action. I choose sin over you Jesus." These are those that don't truly appreciate the gift of eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ. They were never truly saved.

Someone truly once saved always saved understands the precious gift they've received and they hold tightly to it forever.
 
JerryfromMass said:
Seed sown on good soil.
Click to expand...

What about the other soils?

Luke 8:9; His disciples began questioning Him as to what this parable meant.
Luke 8:10; And He said, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND.
Luke 8:11; "Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.
Luke 8:12; "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.
Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:14; "The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.
Luke 8:15; "But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.

In verse 12, there are those who were never saved.
In verse 13, we have those who were saved and believed "for a while".. but then fell away.
In verse 14, we have those who started to bear fruit, it isn't like they had no fruit at all... but they went back to "riches and the pleasures of life" and their fruit never matured.

In verse 15, we had good soil.
 
B-A-C said:
What about the other soils?

Luke 8:9; His disciples began questioning Him as to what this parable meant.
Luke 8:10; And He said, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND.
Luke 8:11; "Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.
Luke 8:12; "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.
Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:14; "The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.
Luke 8:15; "But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.

In verse 12, there are those who were never saved.
In verse 13, we have those who were saved and believed "for a while".. but then fell away.
In verse 14, we have those who started to bear fruit, it isn't like they had no fruit at all... but they went back to "riches and the pleasures of life" and their fruit never matured.

In verse 15, we had good soil.
Click to expand...
And the good soil produced those that are once saved always saved.
 
JerryfromMass said:
Someone truly once saved always saved understands the precious gift they've received and they hold tightly to it forever.
Click to expand...

Deu_32:15 "But Jeshurun grew fat and kicked—You are grown fat, thick, and sleek—Then he forsook God who made him, And scorned the Rock of his salvation.
Jdg_2:12 and they forsook the LORD, the God of their fathers, who had brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods from among the gods of the peoples who were around them, and bowed themselves down to them; thus they provoked the LORD to anger.
Jdg_2:13 So they forsook the LORD and served Baal and the Ashtaroth.
Jdg_10:6 Then the sons of Israel again did evil in the sight of the LORD, served the Baals and the Ashtaroth, the gods of Aram, the gods of Sidon, the gods of Moab, the gods of the sons of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines; thus they forsook the LORD and did not serve Him.
1Ki_9:9 "And they will say, 'Because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and adopted other gods and worshiped them and served them, therefore the LORD has brought all this adversity on them.'"
2Ki_17:16 They forsook all the commandments of the LORD their God and made for themselves molten images, even two calves, and made an Asherah and worshiped all the host of heaven and served Baal.
2Ki_21:22 So he forsook the LORD, the God of his fathers, and did not walk in the way of the LORD.
1Ch_10:7 When all the men of Israel who were in the valley saw that they had fled, and that Saul and his sons were dead, they forsook their cities and fled; and the Philistines came and lived in them.
2Ch_7:22 "And they will say, 'Because they forsook the LORD, the God of their fathers who brought them from the land of Egypt, and they adopted other gods and worshiped them and served them; therefore He has brought all this adversity on them.'"
2Ch_12:1 When the kingdom of Rehoboam was established and strong, he and all Israel with him forsook the law of the LORD.
Isa_54:7 "For a brief moment I forsook you, But with great compassion I will gather you.
Jer_22:9 "Then they will answer, 'Because they forsook the covenant of the LORD their God and bowed down to other gods and served them.'"
 
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