Sue D. said:

Folks -- this is NOT a church group -- this is a Forum. Big difference. Sounds like our interaction Here is being compared to being at church.

And, yes, we All need growth and maturity.

But Talk Jesus is Not a church group -- we come from a variety of religious backgrounds as do lots of people going to church.

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Dear Sue

The ekklesia, the church, the only one in scripture, is the born again souls, living souls and saints in heaven are the ekklesia.

So when two or three or more come together, who are born again from above, washed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit, they are, the church, the ekklesia. That is accordinary to scripture and is not anyone's opinion.

Now the two or three or more saved souls that come together in Jesus Name, can be, any age, male or female, regardless of skin colour or, tongue or denomination.They can also come together in any place or building; a house, a cow shed, a hall, a tent, a flat, a barn, any building, any where, even on a forum. BUT, the Church the ekklesia, is ONLY the born again Spirit regenerated souls.

This is according to God's Holy Word, The Bible.

Over the years the building came to be called the church, as stated previously, this was done by the RCC, they introduces the word, kuriakon for the word church, you will not find this anywhere in scripture, it is not there, so it is wrong to call the church building a church, unless you want to agree with a RCC introduced error!

Next the congregation, it is only a church, an ekklesia, if there are two or more born again from above, regenerated souls, the ekklesia is only saved souls. To call a congregation of saved and unsaved souls a church is wrong and is against the scriptures.

To sum up...
A BUILDING of any description is not a church, the church in scripture, is the ekklesia. To call a building a church is against scripture, it is misleading others by following tradition, note tradition introduced by the RCC not by Jesus. What is the answer, simple, don't call a building a church, it is a place of worship, a place of fellowship.

A CONGREGATION is as we know a group of people coming together, but they are not all the church, only the born again, regenerated souls, are the church, the ekklesia. What is the answer, carry on meeting together as before just preach the Truth, don't mislead lost souls in thinking they are the ekklesia because they will think they are saved.

A CHURCH one final consideration. We cannot say, My Church, come to my church, welcome people to our church. WHY? Because we do not have a church!

There is only one word for church in scripture it is ekklesia. The ekklesia is the Body of Christ, saved souls, worldwide, the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, of which Christ is its Head.

To some not saying my church is a big issue, saying go to church is a big issue, because it has become what people do and say today, not what Jesus said. The difference we are discussing is not huge, but is scripture based we are to just understand and accept what scripture says is a church, we need to adjust our thinking to what is right according to The Word and not mislead others. We are right in the way we come together, in fellowship, in prayer, in rejoicing and giving thanks. We are wrong in the understanding of the church, the ekklesia, if we call the church building a church, and or call a congregation of saved and lost souls a church.

The church, is our Lord's, we are just spiritual stones of the ekklesis, the born again from above believers.

In His Love.

Sue D. said:

Maybe we should stop 'picking each other to death'.

I'll get off my soap box -- have to leave shortly.

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Sue,

You may feel some are picking each other to death, no names mentioned so I will only reply regarding my own posts.

What I have written has been a key up by confirmation of errors by the RCC, and by not just backing up what I have said with scripture, but also backed up what I have said by confirming the original word for church, the ekklesis, and what it meant in the Greek form.

If you do not think what I have put is correct, please state so, and include scripture and translations to confirm your thoughts. I have spent at of time in prayer and in study before adding the details I have, I have prayed, 'Lord I do not want to be accused of attacking the true church as Paul did, ease reveal the Truth in The Word, regarding the ekklesia to us' On Jesus Name Amen.

I still say sister, if you disagree, please confirm with scripture and translated Greek as you feel led. But not based on what you think is right because that is what we do today. You know I keep saying, always will, when reading and studying scripture, look back at the culture and the time of the early Church, as we know and is well documented in history, many errors were introduced by the RCC, look at the time of Jesus, the culture, the time, the language spoken.

I say these things in his love

Please also read my post before this one.

Bless you

B-A-C said:

What do these verses have to do with OSAS? You are stamped by the Spirit. Ok... the stamp can be taken away.

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John 15,
God is the lump, the root, Jesus is the branches, we are grafted in, we are fed by the sap from the root to the branches, free grace, but we are to bare fruit or we will be CUT OFF and thrown in the FIRE and burnt.

That seems pretty clear to me.

Shalom.

Sue D. said:

And the person who is a Wonderful person all their lives -- all the good works you'd want to observe -- Surely THEY will be in heaven. Except for one thing. That really good person has Not acknowledged their person need for a Savior. Has not been repentant because they honestly do not see that they Have sinned. So -- That person dies and guess where They end up. In hell / lake of fire and brimstone.

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So true sister, it doesn't matter if a person is, a good person that does not go to a place of worship, or a good person who does, if they are not born of spirit and water, if they are not washed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit they will NOT SEE, they will NOT ENTER the Kingdom of Heaven.

This is why Sue, they must not think they are part of the ekklesia, the church, until they are born anew from above. They are part of a congregation, yes, but not part of the church. They should not be frightening off, no, no, it is case of letting then know the truth with love.

Let me put it another way, they are welcomed into the fellowship, into the congregation, but to be part of the body of Christ, the ekklesia, the true church, they must be saved, they must be born again from above.

It is important they know it is not the fellowship that says this, but that it is God's Word. It is also important they know all of John 3:1-21 the end is as Important as the beginning.

In His Love

Shalom

@Brother-Paul -- I'm certain not going to approach anyone who comes to church and share with them they are not really part of the body of Christ until they get saved. Church membership is Not a criterian for attending a church.

Generally speaking -- a person comes to church -- maybe just moving into a community -- maybe never been to church before -- but at least 'new' to that particular church. We Should be welcoming them -- maybe a 1st time visitors' packet.

Maybe they approach the pastor about wanting to join the church. The pastor should be sharing about the church -- Sunday School classes -- nursery facilities -- groups at the church. What ever would be pertaining to their age group. Encourage them to take part. As they come back -- make sure they feel welcome. Offer to guide them to their age-appropriate class.

Sunday School / Bible study time Should be centered on God's Word. There should be prayer first. Welcoming a new person to the class.

The pastor's sermon should be centered on God's Word. There should always be a plan of salvation shared. A time for a person to approach pastor with questions before / after a church service.

Encouraging the congregation to be reading God's Word on their own. To approach with questions any time they want. Outside of the service.

As they hear the Word -- the Holy Spirit will be talking to them. Hopefully they will be open to the Holy Spirit's working and acknowledge their personal need and accept.

But it sounds like you'd approach a new person and let them know that they are welcome to be here, but they can't become part of the group until they get saved. That approach just does not sit right.

Brother-Paul said:

You may feel some are picking each other to death, no names mentioned so I will only reply regarding my own posts.

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I know this isn't addressed to me... but still.
One thing I noticed over and over again, there are people who say something is a certain way or at least should be a certain way.. often without Bible support.
It's like they've been brainwashed by hearing the same thing over and over again until it's so ingrained in them nothing can change it.
Then if you bring up Bible that oppose those beliefs, you're a Bible thumper/legalist that is out to get them.

It's much like the liberal political tactics in the US right now.... love and tolerance as long as you agree with us, but if you don't you're a racist/bigot.

Sue

You are totally missing the point, I say that in love.

You are accepting the RCC word for church which IS NOT in scripture. Kuriakon.

You are not accepting the church of Jesus Christ, the ekklesia, which IS ONLY the born again, washed and spiritually regenerated souls.

You are accepting the lost and saved is the church, so you are not accepting the scriptures.

The coming together, encouraging one another in Christ is all right Sue and all scripture based. Lost souls are welcomed into your congregation, they are part of your congregation, but are not part of The church, the ekklesia, until they are born again from above. If they are told they are part of the church, they are being told an untruth.

You are talking of people joining 'your church' Sue, You do not have a church sorry. The only church in scripture comes from the word ekklesia, it is the only word used for church. Ekklesia is the born again souls, the saints on earth and the saints in heaven. Not a mixture of saved and lost souls, only the saved souls, regardless of age, sex, colour or tongue, regardless of where they live. The saved souls are the church, the ekklesia.

If you do not accept that, you are choosing not to accept the scriptures, you are choosing to accept instead what many do today, you are choosing to accept a change made by the RCC which has no scriptural backing

Posted in love

B-A-C said:

I know this isn't addressed to me... but still.
One thing I noticed over and over again, there are people who say something is a certain way or at least should be a certain way.. often without Bible support.
It's like they've been brainwashed by hearing the same thing over and over again until it's so ingrained in them nothing can change it.
Then if you bring up Bible that oppose those beliefs, you're a Bible thumper/legalist that is out to get them.

It's much like the liberal political tactics in the US right now.... love and tolerance as long as you agree with us, but if you don't you're a racist/bigot.

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There are some as you know brother, who are so fixed in their views the trumpet call would not move them. As for myself, I admit I have replied and have repeated myself, that is because a person as come back at a different angle, so I have made plain with scripture and translated Greek what the scriptures say. I have also invited a person to confirm with scripture and if required by translation if they disagree, that has not happened, I would be the first to step back and reconsider any genuine message which confirms something in scripture not already considered, but there are some who are as you say, set in their views brother and repeat their stance with no scripture based reason to back up their view.

Posted in love

Brother-Paul said:

You are talking of people joining 'your church' Sue, You do not have a church sorry. The only church in scripture comes from the word ekklesia, it is the only word used for church. Ekklesia is the born again souls, the saints on earth and the saints in heaven. Not a mixture of saved and lost souls, only the saved souls, regardless of age, sex, colour or tongue, regardless of where they live. The saved souls are the church, the ekklesia.

If you do not accept that, you are choosing not to accept the scriptures, you are choosing to accept instead what many do today, you are choosing to accept a change made by the RCC which has no scriptural backing

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Hi Paul. I agree 'ekklesia' was used to define The Church, the bride of the Lamb. Words are sometimes used in ways they weren't intended to mean, but used to define an association such as a particular body of faithful people, and the whole body of the faithful. What do you call your gathering place for spiritual fellowship?

Silly question: is not the pointing device included with many computers called a mouse? Why do you suppose that would be despite it not having whiskers or fur? Cheers

Shutterbug said:

Hi Paul. I agree 'ekklesia' was used to define The Church, the bride of the Lamb. Words are sometimes used in ways they weren't intended to mean, but used to define an association such as a particular body of faithful people, and the whole body of the faithful. What do you call your gathering place for spiritual fellowship?

Silly question: is not the pointing device included with many computers called a mouse? Why do you suppose that would be despite it not having whiskers or fur? Cheers

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Greeting my friend,

What are the most important things our Lord tells u?,

One has to be the ekklesia, the true church, the only one in scripture, it is I believe, one of the most important things he tells us about.

Why is church so important? Because it is the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, it is His!

Therefore I see this as Extremely important. Am I wrong to think this?

If something is shown to be scripturally incorrect should we accept it? I think not, especially something as important as the Body of Christ, His Church.

Calling a building, a church, is totally against scripture, it is RCC interference and is misleading. Now there are many on here who do not agree with a lot the RCC does or preaches, understandably. Here we find a change made by the RCC which is proven as incorrect and confusing. Even worse if I may say, to take a Word our Lord uses, and introduce another word with the same meaning has to be the work of satan. Should we accept that, I think not, others will need to search their hearts.

There is only one church, the ekklesia, which is the Body of Christ, with Christ as the head.

Many today still accept the errors of what the church is, it is not a building, it is not a congregation of lost and saved souls. But not places or worship accept the errors, there are many places of worship changing, they are now calling the place of worship they come together in, the Fathers House, not a church. If I may confirm here I am not a member of their fellowship but I praise the Lord and pray He will bless them for seeing the Truth and adjusting.

What Does Jesus Say?

Unless you are born again (from above) you shall NOT see the Kingdom of God, you shall NOT enter the Kingdom of God. John 3:1-21 should always be read in full, the start and the conclusion are equally important.

If the Truth in The Word is not preached correctly, how will the congregation know the Truth? If the congregation are preached the errors they will never know.

We don't go to church, we don't have a 'my church', the congregation is part of the fellowship and can be saved and unsaved souls, but the church, the ekklesia, is ONLY the born again from above, washed, and spiritually regenerated souls,

When Christ returns for His Church, He will not return for a building, he will not return for a congregation, he will, as he said he will, return in Glory for His bride, the born again souls, because they are His, they are His church.

In his love

Shutterbug said:

Silly question: is not the pointing device included with many computers called a mouse? Why do you suppose that would be despite it not having whiskers or fur? Cheers

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Silly question indeed my friend.

When I was younger I danced the Gay Gordan's! Gordan was a nice man married to a nice lady. What is Gay Gordan today?

I ask for a plate of chips, I was given a plate of pieces out of a computer.

Selwyn Hughes who wrote the devotions, Every Day with Jesus, said as long time ago, the devil is always causing humans to change the labels, these days even more so.

So with 2000 years of label changing are we to accept everything we hear and read? Only if it is in the Bible I think.

If scripture gives us 7 letters to the churches and tells us all are wrong, some worse than others, is there not a warning there, that says, search the scriptures and get right with God. Don't accept handed down explanations check it out with scripture, If you find errors, item incorrect with scripture, items that have been passed down through the generations, that are found to be incorrect, what shall we do? Brush them under the carpet and carry on as we are?

I cannot my friend,

Bless you

There is both the "Church" -- the body of born again believers made up of all born again believers throughout the entire world -- and the Local body of believers.

And, yes, we Do comment about the church 'we' go to. In the United States -- it's usually a building with indoor restrooms / air conditions, heating. Usually a kitchen.

Now -- in Other countries and maybe some in This country -- we Do have groups of believers mixed in with non-believers who meet under bridges or in parks or where ever.

There is a small gathering of people who meet at the Church Under the Bridge in Austin.

So -- are we supposed to go back to the way things were done in the New Testament? What conditions did the people live in back then. Is your thought process such that "'it was good enough back then, it can be good enough Now?"

Where Should the present-day body of believers meet? How are we to follow though with the great commission if we stay in our 'little group' of born again believers who meet 'somewhere'?

On one of these threads the subject of 'church planting' came up. It is referring to those who start Bible study groups and eventually start a church with it's own pastor. That's what my sister and her husband did for 40 years in Brazil as missionaries. They were able to start several churches in various parts of one of the cities. The plan is to be reaching people with the Gospel unto Salvation. They meet in a group and probably grow in numbers.

Back years ago -- the city I was growing up in -- John Deere's was expanding rapidly. As the city's population was growing -- people who had been going to the main church started Bible studies in the various areas of town that were growing. There were 4 churches started in those outlying areas of that growing city. It's called 'church planting'.

Dear Sue,

I do apologise if I have not explained clearly enough, but to me, it does appear sadly you are set in your thoughts. I have referred to scripture and tried to explain, I have confirmed the Greek meaning of the only word for church, you have not accepted it, I have confirmed the RCC introduction of a word for church which is not in scripture, you still see the church in today Mode.

I have explained the word for ekklesia from scripture and translation regarding a congregation you choose to accept what we do today not what scripture says.

I have tried to explain the importance of looking at the early Church following Pentecost, you instead compare USA today, you miss the point regarding the church our Lord tells us about in each situation.

What I have shared in from scripture Sue, not my thoughts, but from scripture.

I can only pray, that one day you will understand what Jesus said about his church in scripture.

I do say these things in love, but it would be wrong to keep repeating them on hear.

We go in peace sister

Shalom

Many may argue, But i believe, either you are in Christ or you are not. Either you are a child of GOD or you are a child of the evil one. Either it is yes or it is no. Either you are in the Body of Christ or you are not, Either you are a Sheep or a goat. Either you are a people of God, or you are not. Either you are a enemy of God or you are not. Their is not such a thing, One foot in and one foot out! "Either You is or you you ain't"! No matter what you think! For The Father would not let His children be ignorant of their true Brothers and Sisters, who are in Christ. "The Letter killeth and the Spirit giveth Life"! So do not let those "Nominals christians" blind yours eyes, and darken your minds, by casting the dirt into the air.

"The church is not the "Solid Rock" for in which We stand, For it is "Jesus Christ" The "Solid Rock" that we Stand, and all other ground is sinking sand! They promote "church", they promote men, the promote women, they promote programs, they promote buildings made by the hands of men. We promote "Jesus Christ" and Him Alone! We are the strange ones, they are the honorable ones, role models unto this world, examples in how to build a outstanding dying and decaying world that is to be admired, with all its delicacies, And on that faithful day when that kingdom shall fall and crumble, the whole world will mourn.
( Revelation 18)NKJV
“The kings of the earth who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning, standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’

I still say: Our God is a Conditional GOD, A Covenant GOD! who is Immutable.

(Hebrews 6)NASB
"For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear an oath by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, “INDEED I WILL GREATLY BLESS YOU AND I WILL GREATLY MULTIPLY YOU.” And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise. For people swear an oath by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath serving as confirmation is an end of every dispute. In the same way God, desiring even more to demonstrate to the heirs of the promise the fact that His purpose is unchangeable, confirmed it with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to hold firmly to the hope set before us. This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and reliable and one which enters within the veil, where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek." "OSAS" confirmed!

I will say this, [To be a good "Theologian" you have to a have mind of "Lawyer", knowing "The LAW" of GOD!]
(Romans 3)ESV
There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin."

PS. I thank God for the LAW of GOD, If it was not for the LAW of GOD, i would not have known, I needed a "SAVIOR"! who name is "Jesus"!

I did say a lot, but a lot to be admired, by" The Precious Ones"
(Psalms 116)BSB
"How can I repay the LORD
for all His goodness to me?
I will lift the cup of salvation
and call on the name of the LORD.
I will fulfill my vows to the LORD
in the presence of all HIS People." [ not all people BUT HIS People] For there is a difference.

" For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;" "They are not all HIS people who are the descended from HIS people"

Shalom, The New Jerusalem.

The Truth will be revealed

He then stated, “And I say also unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18)

Jesus is the rock, his church is the ekklesia, the born again regenerated souls worldwide

Shalom.

Colossians 1:
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ at Colos′sae:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father.
9 And so, from the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding,
10 to lead a life worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God.
11 May you be strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy,
12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in light.
13 He has delivered us from the dominion of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Brother-Paul said:

The Truth will be revealed

He then stated, “And I say also unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18)

Jesus is the rock, his church is the ekklesia, the born again regenerated souls worldwide

Shalom.

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Bishops' Bible of 1568
And I say also vnto thee, that thou art Peter, and vpon this rocke I wyll buylde my congregation: And the gates of hell shall not preuayle agaynst it.
Coverdale Bible of 1535
And I saie to ye: Thou art Peter, & vpo this rocke wil I builde my cogregacion: and ye gates of hell shal not preuayle agaynst it.

Tyndale Bible of 1526
And I saye also vnto the yt thou arte Peter: and apon this rocke I wyll bylde my congregacion. And the gates of hell shall not prevayle ageynst it.

[And the most earlier Manuscripts reads as follows; "Petros," "Petra", and "congregation" " Petros" would mean 'stone' and "Petra" would mean Rock.]

And I say also unto thee, That thou art [Petros], and upon this [Petra] I will build my [congregation]; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.[transliterated].

Jesus has "Called out" HIS "congregation" meaning [His people from the world]. 'come out from among'.
Jesus has "Ecclesia" HIS "assembly" meaning [His people from the world]. 'come out from among them'.

From Genesis to Revelations, He have continue to call out a special People He had made, to come out from among the surrounding world, HE GAVE THIS GROUP CERTAIN LAWS TO OBEY, And He establish HIs name with them as "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" The God of The Hebrew people. [Called out from among the people of the other nations [world].

Saying the same thing,

I think Jesus was trying to tell Peter, do not get the "Big head". Lording over The flock of GOD!
Most of us know this Truth, It is only a reminder. Like the" LORD Supper" should be. Do this, so you will not forget who I AM. For many have forgotten, although they go to church and are partakers of the Lord's Supper but they still have forgotten who HE is. And how He has dealt with HIS people in a systematic order. Which He still is dealing with us, per se prophecy. That must be fulfilled, which is frightening in such a way HE had to tell us to "fear not", for HE knows it will be, fearful events that must take place. Before the end will be.

The Church that has most nonelects don't want God's elects (Holy Spirit is in every God's elect when saved) near them because it convicts and makes them guilty. You will not be popular.