Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

They the saved souls

1 Corinthians 14:2
For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

Saved soul

1 Corinthians 14:23
If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?

The whole church being the born again souls

If outsiders or unbelievers enter... they are not the church, only the saved souls is the ekklesia.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

God has appointed, in the ekklesia, the church, the born again....

1 Corinthians 14:4
The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.

builds up the church, builds up the believers, the born again from above souls, they are the ekklesia, the church

B-A-C said:

1Cor 14:26; What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
1Cor 14:27; If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret;
1Cor 14:28; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.

1Cor 14:22; So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.

1Cor 14:12; So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the edification of the church.
1Cor 14:13; Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

1Cor 14:23; Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

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Sorry for the delay, I wanted to pray, go back, and restudy the scriptures.

Let us look at the scripture in more detail rather than verse knapping.

I have included the original words and meaning from the Greek.

The section of scripture is referring first and foremost to, The Brethren, which are the brothers in Christ, the saved souls.

The section is also referring to the church, note the ekklesia, the only word for church in all of scripture.

The discussion then moves to tongues, tongues being translated from word to mean, an article e.g. the tongue and also a foreigner, different tongue.

We see in verse 26, Brethren, which we looked at earlier, same work meaning The Brother's in Christ, the born again, the saved souls. What do the brethren, what do the saved souls do?
They 'come together', they have doctrine, psalms, tongues, revelation, etc. Let all things be done to edify. To build the church in worship, to build the congregation oF saved souls in worship, with psalms, doctrine, etc.

Verse 28, we have let him keep quiet in the ekklesia, in the church. Ekklesia, being (G1577)
Ekklesia is the Greek word translated in NT as "church."
It comes from ek, meaning "out from and to" and kaleo, meaning "to call," and has to do with a group of people called out from one place and to another, as an assembly or a congregation.
Greek Ekklēsia, (“gathering of those summoned”), those who are born anew, called out, from sin to righteousness, from the world and sin, to God, through Jesus to righteousness.
Therefore the righteous which includes those currently living and the Saints.

1Cor 14:20-40
20 Brethren, [G80 Brother a Saved souls) be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues (G2084 a foreigner) and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues (G3588 & G1100 a definate article tongue) are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church (ekklesia) be come together into one place (not a building now called a church but anywhere, place or building),
and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned (G2399 ignorant or ignoramous), or unbelievers (G571 faithless), will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not (G571 faithless), or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
26 How is it then, brethren? G80 Brothers) when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue (G1100), let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church (G1577 ekklesia); and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches (G1577 ekklesia's saved souls and saints) of the saints.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: (G1577 ekklesia) for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

In His Love

Brother-Paul said:

Right on target brother.

Our bodies are the Temple of God, when two or three, regenerated souls come together, Jesus is in the midst, the. Church is formed, that is the ekklezia as we know brother.

The ekklesia is not a building, the ekklesia is not a co gregarious of lost and saved souls. The ekklesia is the Body of Christ, souls washed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

The unsaved are confirmed by our Lord, if God is not your Father, the devil is.

In His Peace and Love

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(Geneva Bible 1587) Psalms 133
A song of degrees or Psalme of Dauid. "Beholde, howe good and howe comely a thing it is, brethren to dwell euen together.
It is like to the precious oyntment vpon the head, that runneth downe vpon the beard, euen vnto Aarons beard, which went downe on the border of his garments:
And as the dew of Hermon, which falleth vpon the mountaines of Zion: for there the Lord appointed the blessing and life for euer."

Nicodemus couldn't see the Truth, he saw things in the flesh, he saw things in his day.

That is, I feel, what we have today. The RCC changed the early church, they moulded it the way they saw things, the way they felt it should be, just like the Pharisee's before them. No one in those days could argue, they accepted it, few had sufficient knowledge, and even if they did they needed the scriptures. So sadly the RCC could preach anything, but eventually God who is patient, stepped in and the reformation happened.

They were the once that caused the confusion with their own, not scriptural addition of the word church, using kuriakan for church building. It is not in scripture, not anywhere. the only word church (G1577 ekklesia's saved souls and saints)

A group of people coming together is not a church, only a group of born again regenerated souls are the church, the ekklesia.

Any group of saved souls can come together, in a house, in a garden, in a park, in a garage, in a shed, in a purpose made building, but the place or the building is not a church, it is against scripture, it is an insult to think it or say it, it is as defiling the body of Christ, which is the ekklesia.

If 100 people who are born again come together, they are the church, the ekklesia. If 101 come together and only 100 are saved souls, there is the ekklesia of 100 whose Father is God, and one lost soul whose father is the devil. If the world could just see this Truth, if the one person that came to the church, the group of saved souls and was told they are not part of the body of Christ unless they are born again, wouldn't the person say, as we see in Jesus time... 'What do I have to do to be saved. Then there would be 101 members of the ekklesia.

We do not have a church, we do not have the ekklesia, as a saved soul we are part of the ekklesia, as a lost soul we are not.

But we must never take our eyes off the fact, the ekklesia, the body of saved souls, including all the saints, alive now or in heaven, is what the ekklesia, the church is, and that includes all saved souls in all the world, white, red, black, yellow, olive or any other human colour on this earth, or in space.

In His Peace and Love

Brother-Paul said:

Nicodemus couldn't see the Truth, he saw things in the flesh, he saw things in his day.

That is, I feel, what we have today. The RCC changed the early church, they moulded it the way they saw things, the way they felt it should be, just like the Pharisee's before them. No one in those days could argue, they accepted it, few had sufficient knowledge, and even if they did they needed the scriptures. So sadly the RCC could preach anything, but eventually God who is patient, stepped in and the reformation happened.

They were the once that caused the confusion with their own, not scriptural addition of the word church, using kuriakan for church building. It is not in scripture, not anywhere. the only word church (G1577 ekklesia's saved souls and saints)

A group of people coming together is not a church, only a group of born again regenerated souls are the church, the ekklesia.

Any group of saved souls can come together, in a house, in a garden, in a park, in a garage, in a shed, in a purpose made building, but the place or the building is not a church, it is against scripture, it is an insult to think it or say it, it is as defiling the body of Christ, which is the ekklesia.

If 100 people who are born again come together, they are the church, the ekklesia. If 101 come together and only 100 are saved souls, there is the ekklesia of 100 whose Father is God, and one lost soul whose father is the devil. If the world could just see this Truth, if the one person that came to the church, the group of saved souls and was told they are not part of the body of Christ unless they are born again, wouldn't the person say, as we see in Jesus time... 'What do I have to do to be saved. Then there would be 101 members of the ekklesia.

We do not have a church, we do not have the ekklesia, as a saved soul we are part of the ekklesia, as a lost soul we are not.

But we must never take our eyes off the fact, the ekklesia, the body of saved souls, including all the saints, alive now or in heaven, is what the ekklesia, the church is, and that includes all saved souls in all the world, white, red, black, yellow, olive or any other human colour on this earth, or in space.

In His Peace and Love

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And is it amazing, of a movement in this century called: "Church Planters". going around planting churches. That don't even sound right! Alarms and my Cow Bell detector would go off, ding, ding ding! Every time i heard those words, grouping together. "Church Planters". It just did not sound right to me. Paul did not go around planting churches. When he heard that the Gospel of Jesus Christ had reach a region, The Apostles travel there to see, and when certain regions had problems. he heard of those problems. He travel there or and wrote a "epistle" [a letter] to those areas concerning their problems concerning the new Faith, a new religion that the world had entered. A brand new religion called "The Way" not "Christianity"! THE NAME CHRISTIANITY CAME YEARS LATER, around the year "100 AD". Jesus died around 38 AD. You also have to love the Lord God with all of your mind, stop and meditate in His Word, the word of Truth.

Shalom

PearlB said:

Ah yes, but in my experience, especially in the traditional denominations, there is a mix of born again believers and mere church-goers. And not all clergy are born again.

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Oil and water do not mix

Brother-Paul said:

This verse does not say what you refer to, maybe you have another verse in mind brother.

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on orderly worship
1Cor 14:39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.
40 But all things should be done decently and in order.

I do not know first hand what "Christian" faith and worship is like in the U.S.A. - but as an outsider I see a great deal of confusion from a deteriorated legacy from Azusa Street and the old AOG.
Unfortunately, this has now contaminated us here in Australia where many Pentecostal churches that came out of the 1920s (Smith Wigglesworth) and the 1950s (Oral Roberts) have deteriorated into becoming charismatic
faith and praise worship through emotionalism and pumping out loud gospel music. And alas a great emphasis on the deceitful prosperity gospel with credit card swiping, with the false doctrine of OSAS as the offered reward
for membership of these happy clappy feel good places of worship.

Another of their many wrongdoings is throwing off true Pentecostal faith for a charismatic doctrines that are against scripture and orderly worship as laid out by Paul the apostle.
Thus the Bible evidence of praying in tongues (praying unto God) is trashed with unscriptural claims that tongues is one of the gifts and some have it, and some do not. So many are deceived into believing they are born new again
by the Holy Spirit when in fact they have not received the indwelling Holy Spirit.

But all is not lost for when a vineyard no longer produces fruit God moves and plants another.

Downunder said:

I do not know first hand what "Christian" faith and worship is like in the U.S.A. - but as an outsider I see a great deal of confusion from a deteriorated legacy from Azusa Street and the old AOG.
Unfortunately, this has now contaminated us here in Australia where many Pentecostal churches that came out of the 1920s (Smith Wigglesworth) and the 1950s (Oral Roberts) have deteriorated into becoming charismatic
faith and praise worship through emotionalism and pumping out loud gospel music. And alas a great emphasis on the deceitful prosperity gospel with credit card swiping, with the false doctrine of OSAS as the offered reward
for membership of these happy clappy feel good places of worship.

Another of their many wrongdoings is throwing off true Pentecostal faith for a charismatic doctrines that are against scripture and orderly worship as laid out by Paul the apostle.
Thus the Bible evidence of praying in tongues (praying unto God) is trashed with unscriptural claims that tongues is one of the gifts and some have it, and some do not. So many are deceived into believing they are born new again
by the Holy Spirit when in fact they have not received the indwelling Holy Spirit.

But all is not lost for when a vineyard no longer produces fruit God moves and plants another.

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So, "a little leaven will leaven the whole whole lump" [and how often have many has said]
Song of Solomon 2:15
Catch for us the foxes--the little foxes that ruin the vineyards--for our vineyards are in bloom.
(Ezekiel 13)BSB
"This is what the Lord GOD says: Woe to the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit, yet have seen nothing. Your prophets, O Israel, are like foxes among the ruins. You did not go up to the gaps or restore the wall around the house of Israel so that it would stand in the battle on the Day of the LORD.…"

B-A-C said:

1Cor 14:26; What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
1Cor 14:27; If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret;
1Cor 14:28; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.

1Cor 14:22; So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.

1Cor 14:12; So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the edification of the church.
1Cor 14:13; Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

1Cor 14:23; Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

Click to expand...

The key word in that passage would be "IF" anyone speaks in a tongue, Then.....

Of all the churches I've been to None has had anyone speaking in tongues -- except the one Pentecostal church I tried for a couple of weeks.

Continuing with the 1 Cor. 14 passage --
vs 18 "I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all;

vs 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five works with my understanding, that I may teach others, also, than ten thousand words in a tongue."

And we also find in Acts 2: The day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

vs 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, As the Spirit gave them utterance."
It was the working of the Holy Spirit in the individual.

vs 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language."

vs 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, "Look, are not all these who speak Galileans ?" vs 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born."

Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
5:21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight.

Jeremiah 23:1 “Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture!” declares the LORD.

Sue D. said:

Of all the churches I've been to None has had anyone speaking in tongues -- except the one Pentecostal church I tried for a couple of weeks

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Fortunately there are still Bible obedient Pentecostal churches that do things by the book -
Where all members (the elect) are baptised in water and baptised in the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence (the sign) of praying in tongues as Jesus foretold.
And where additionally the three voice gifts of the Holy Spirit are operated when the church comes together as outlined in 1Corinthians 14:

26 What is it then, brethren? When ye come together, each hath a psalm, hath a teaching, hath a revelation, hath a tongue, hath an interpretation. Let all things be unto edifying.
27 If any speaketh in a tongue, let it be by two, or at the most three, and in turn; and let one interpret:
28 but if there be no interpreter, let him be silent in church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29 And let prophets speak by two or three, and let the others discern.

So a person will speak in tongues and this is followed by the gift of interpretation up to a maximum of 3 times
then after this there can be up to 3 gifts of prophesying

The presence and work of the Holy Spirit in the body of Christ when we assemble together for communion and worship and teaching of doctrine.

I hope you won't be disappointed when there are others Besides Pentecostals in heaven.

There are Also Bible-obedient Baptists

Sue D. said:

I hope you won't be disappointed when there are others Besides Pentecostals in heaven.
There are Also Bible-obedient Baptists

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1. if you were Bible obedient then you would be the same as first century Pentecostal church in the NT - yes Pentecostal with gifts and these signs shall follow them that believe ...
2. pentecostals are not going to heaven, but rather we are going to meet our Lord and God in the air at the marriage feast and then come down to Jerusalem - so if Baptists are going up to heaven you might be asking
"where has everybody gone?"

@Downunder -- I hate to possibly disappoint you, but I'm as born-again as you are. You are referring to the rapture -- I'll be going up right along with you. The marriage feast will be in heaven, not in mid-air. You'll be right there in heaven with me and all the other born again believers.

The Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts as He sees fit. And there are Lots of spiritual gifts besides that of tongues.

Sue D. said:

The Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts as He sees fit. And there are Lots of spiritual gifts besides that of tongues.

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Yes there are 9 (nine) gifts of the Holy Spirit that are active and of effect in the Spirit-filled church - the body of Christ
1. wisdom
2. knowledge
3. faith
4. healing
5. working of miracles
6. prophecy
7. discerning of spirits
8. kinds of tongues
9. interpretation of tongues

therefore if your church really really wants the presence of the Holy Spirit in the life of your church then these 9 gifts would all be present.

@Downunder -- will add a couple to your list -- found in Romans 12:6 + "ministry, teaching, exhorting , giving , leading, and mercy..."

Your list was from 1 Corinthians 12 -- was just looking further in that passage. vs 28 "And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after That miracles, then gifts of healings, helps administrations, varieties of tongues, " the chapter closes with "And yet I show you a more excellent way. Chapter 13:1 "Thought I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not Love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

The passages continues on to say " but have not love, I am nothing." All these gifts amount to nothing if we do not have love. And the passage continues with vs 4 and following describing love.

The other passage in Ephesians 4 : 11 and following " and He , Himself, gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, vs 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ."

There Might be a tendency to dwell on certain gifts and pass by some of the others.

Brother Paul said:

five were confused and thought because they were part of churchianity that they were really His (Romans 8:9) but in truth He told them "I never knew you!"

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I don't believe Jesus tells the 5 foolish virgins I "never" knew you.
Also they did have oil (the Spirit) at one time. They just ran out.

Sue D. said:

The other passage in Ephesians 4 : 11 and following " and He , Himself, gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, vs 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ."

There Might be a tendency to dwell on certain gifts and pass by some of the others.

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There is a difference between the fruit, the gifts, and the "appointing" of the Spirit.

1Cor 12:1; Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware.
1Cor 12:4; Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

Php 1:16; the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel;
1Tim 2:7; For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
2Tim 1:11; for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher.

1Cor 12:28; And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles,
then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

Acts 20:28 ; "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

But a healthy church won't have "some" or "a few" of these. They will have all of these.
Imagine a football team with no running back, or no wide receiver. Imagine a baseball team with no catcher and no second base player.