B-A-C said:

It is much the same in the US. It's "mostly" a denominational thing, but not always

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It is sad brother, The body of Christ the one true Church, is born again believers worldwide, every denomination would agree, but then follow their denominational path. First if you want to become a pastor you get your qualification through your denominational path.

I had a conversation with saved soul recently, the persons pastor was adamant 'the church' is the congregation of saved and lost souls, they were a flock of sheep and goats in his pen, but they as a group of saved and unsaved soul, are not and cannot be the ekklesia, only those who are born again are the true church.

Shalom

Sue D. said:

Since the Holy Spirit indwells each born again believer -- and they Do go to a church somewhere -- the Holy Spirit Will be in that church -- so is there any reason To feel the need To 'invite' the Holy Spirit into a church?

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Greeting Sue,

You are correct, I believe, the Holy Spirit dwells in each born again soul, He cannot dwell in a nine regenerated soul.

The Spirit in the church, is the spirit in each believer, as one body, when two or three, born again souls, come together, in my name, I am there in the midst of them, Jesus confirmed.

Why are some places of worship more spirit filled than others, two elements here I thing

1 - the number of saved souls, they are the ones with the spirit indwelling.

2 - the strength of the spirit, or amount of the Holy Spirit in each believer.

The spirit is in each believer, is each believer growing in the spirit, groaning for the spirit, or just asking for it?

Another area I feel restricts the spirit, is the number of unsaved souls in place of worship, and the number who are saved but the Spirit in them is dormant.

One thing seems clear, every denomination has the same issues, some more than others, which is dependant on the items mentioned above.

Another thing that seems evident is the church today, is not like the early Church where believers saved souls came together, and their numbers increased daily.

Shalom

Greeting Pearl,

Flollowing on from the post just submitted and considering your comments of the tug and war between traditionalist worshippers and born again worshippers. I experienced this in the first place of worship I attended, though there can be this pull in directions, what we do not know is how many where not born again from above, but for sure the Good Lord knew.

This is the problem when pastors believe the flock of saved and lost souls he is caring for are the ekklesia, the body of Christ.

Bless you.

Sue D. said:

What exactly is meant by a church Wanting

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Greeting Sue,

A misunderstanding of the true church I think Sue, the Holy Spirit is already dwelling in every born again regenerated soul as you right point out.

It is the spirit within that needs to grow in each soul, not a top up like a new delivery.

A plant started as a seed, the seed is Jesus. It is in us the moment we are truly saved, it needs feeding and watering to grow, we need to feed on The Word and drink the living waters.

None born again souls cannot grow until they have the spirit in them.

Born again souls have the spirit, but sometimes it stays there like water in a pond, un.oved. Others know blessings come by making the plant grow, making the wheat grow, so there is a great harvest, we are servants, we are to serve. Each will receive their reward sister, the good servants help grow the crop, the bad servants not only have a bad crop, they pull down the benefits of the faithful.

The spirit in each soul has to increase, we have to decrease, he has to increase, in every saved soul, not just a few, the spirit is already in every believer, it is not like fuel in a car, it is there, it is sufficient, we need the Lord to bless the spirit in us, not ask for more from him.

Bless you

PloughBoy said:

sad, I thank GOD, He has taught me how to read my Bible... My prayers LORD, you teach me your ways and How to read my Bible, and may your blessed Spirit guide me into your Righteousness, and not my own

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Amen brother

PloughBoy said:

And everywhere you go the "Spirit of GOD" goes with you. For it is in YOU, forever and ever and ever more. For when you enter a building the Spirit of God enters that Building and when You walk out, It walks out too! He will never leave you, But it will leave a building. But you, your GOD, cannot lie! Their god can, but yours, never. For this is Our GOD, and we are known of HIM. and we are HIS People, Created before the Foundations of The World. Predestinated to be created into The Image of His Only begotten SON and to be Glorified to share in a "Inheritance" that will be Manifested at The Coronation Table"!

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Right on target brother.

Our bodies are the Temple of God, when two or three, regenerated souls come together, Jesus is in the midst, the. Church is formed, that is the ekklezia as we know brother.

The ekklesia is not a building, the ekklesia is not a co gregarious of lost and saved souls. The ekklesia is the Body of Christ, souls washed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

The unsaved are confirmed by our Lord, if God is not your Father, the devil is.

In His Peace and Love

" Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing." (John 15:4-5)

My opinion is that people will seek 'another Jesus' to fulfill what they think is best and lead others down a road of confusion. The pastor at my church has said on two occasions when reciting the Lord's Prayer "Our Father and Mother in heaven". I thought I had imagined it, but it was confirmed at a later date. We also have an LGBTQ couple in the congregation. I'm not a member of the church per se, but it's about a five minute walk or so away.

I feel that if we prefer to do things our way, we will at some point grieve the Holy Spirit, and may lose its influence altogether. If you have a Spirit filled pastor who genuinely seeks the will of the Father, hang onto that person and support their efforts. Cheers

You hit the nail on the head Shutterbug.

Many want a Jesus that fits their thoughts and ways. They want Jesus to be like them.

They should know and follow the real Jesus, the Christ, learn from him, grow to like him.

There are two roads, only one leads to life.

B-A-C said:

I suspect, like the people in Matt 7:21-23; and the five foolish virgins, and the goats, and five of the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3, many churches aren't nearly so "engaged" with Jesus as they think they are.
I would say these churches are the ones showing disrespect to Jesus.

God used Jonah to call out Nineveh, God used Samuel to call out Saul, God used Jonathan to call out David, Paul said to remove the wicked from among you. I believe God is OK with us calling them out.
It's my opinion, the reason some churches are in the mess they're in, is because no one stood up for Biblical standards.

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I apologize for being a bit harsh, I was feeling the sadness of Jesus (Jesus Himself through me) while reading all the stuff about His bride, and His words and His sadness just flowed through me.

Brad Huber said:

I apologize for being a bit harsh, I was feeling the sadness of Jesus (Jesus Himself through me) while reading all the stuff about His bride, and His words and His sadness just flowed through me.

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Actually I didn't take it that way. .. and I do agree too much bad stuff is said about the church these days.

Brother-Paul said:

Greeting Sue,

You are correct, I believe, the Holy Spirit dwells in each born again soul, He cannot dwell in a nine regenerated soul.

The Spirit in the church, is the spirit in each believer, as one body, when two or three, born again souls, come together, in my name, I am there in the midst of them, Jesus confirmed.

Why are some places of worship more spirit filled than others, two elements here I thing

1 - the number of saved souls, they are the ones with the spirit indwelling.

2 - the strength of the spirit, or amount of the Holy Spirit in each believer.

The spirit is in each believer, is each believer growing in the spirit, groaning for the spirit, or just asking for it?

Another area I feel restricts the spirit, is the number of unsaved souls in place of worship, and the number who are saved but the Spirit in them is dormant.

One thing seems clear, every denomination has the same issues, some more than others, which is dependant on the items mentioned above.

Another thing that seems evident is the church today, is not like the early Church where believers saved souls came together, and their numbers increased daily.

Shalom

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The churches I've been in -- the pastor preaches Assuming that there non-born again people in the congregation.

Sounds Almost like 'emotionalism' is anticipated during a church service. Re: the Amount of the Holy Spirit in each believer.

The number of unsaved souls in the service? The churches I've been in -- pastor preaches / teaching to help the people in congregation grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. People bringing unsaved friends / relatives is Wonderful. Hopefully people in the congregation will interact with them. They will choose to come back to hear / learn more.

Is church supposed to be a place where our emotions are 'lifted up'? Where tongues are Welcomed? I don't believe so.

Sue D. said:

Is church supposed to be a place where our emotions are 'lifted up'? Where tongues are Welcomed? I don't believe so.

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What kind of church would that be?

Our God is emotional. Jesus wept. The angels rejoice.
God gets angry. God is jealous. Jesus called the Pharisees a brood of vipers and sons of hell.
David danced before the Lord. There are songs in heaven people will sing they can't sing here.
We are called the bride of Christ. Jesus reprimanded a church is Revelation 2 because they "lost their first love".

You don't feel emotion when someone you love hugs you? A grand-child, and husband, a long lost friend?
If you don't feel something when the Spirit moves in you... if it doesn't bring you to tears sometimes....
if it doesn't convict you sometimes...

We have tongues every week at my church. I couldn't imagine it being any other way.
The Bible says to speak in tongues in church, why would you NOT do what the Bible says?

Brad Huber said:

I have mentioned this before on the site and in other venues. The biggest fault of the body of Christ is how they have gotten away from utilizing the Holy Spirit as it was intended. Its why many will believe a lie, because they dont use the Holy Spirit to fact check things. And the gifts of the Holy Spirit are ignored in most churchs.

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The Holy Spirit's role = at the moment of salvation -- the Holy Spirit comes to indwell the person and gives them a spiritual gift. Those gifts are given to a person to help the church run more smoothly.

Look at 1 Corinthians 12 , Romans 12 and Ephesians 4:11 +. regarding the spiritual gifts.

Sue D. said:

The churches I've been in -- the pastor preaches Assuming that there non-born again people in the congregation.

Sounds Almost like 'emotionalism' is anticipated during a church service. Re: the Amount of the Holy Spirit in each believer.

The number of unsaved souls in the service? The churches I've been in -- pastor preaches / teaching to help the people in congregation grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. People bringing unsaved friends / relatives is Wonderful. Hopefully people in the congregation will interact with them. They will choose to come back to hear / learn more.

Is church supposed to be a place where our emotions are 'lifted up'? Where tongues are Welcomed? I don't believe so.

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Greeting Sue,

You are viewing the church as the building or the people in the building, saved and lost souls.

The church, that is the ekklesia, is the Body of Christ. It is the born again from above, washed and regenerated souls, not a mixture of saved and lost souls.

Many people talk of 'my church', pastors encourage members of their denomination to bring people to their church.

We do not have a church, we are part of one true church, the body of Christ, the ekklesia, Saved Souls worldwide, regardless of age, sex, colour or tongue.

When Christ Returns in Glory, for His Church, His Bride, He is returning for those who are His, the washed and regenerated, sealed, born again souls, the rest will be left behind.

You yourself mentioned the Holy Spirit is in the people, that is correct, we agree, the Holy Spirit is in the truly, saved souls, but He is not in the lost souls until they repent and accept Jesus into their hearts.

Shalom

There is both the 'Church' -- body of believers AND the church Building or the place where the people get together to worship.

Sue D. said:

Is church supposed to be a place where our emotions are 'lifted up'? Where tongues are Welcomed? I don't believe so.

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The church Sue is the born again believers only, they are part of the worldwide, ekklesia, the bride of Christ, the body of Christ, the spiritual stones. But not in, as they are called, a baptist church, a protestant church, a penticostal church, a methodist church, no, no, they are denominational names.

The 'CHURCH' the 'ekklesia' are saved souls worldwide, regardless of age, sex, colour or tongue, and excluding denominational named groups. Denominations are man made, as a result of so many errors in the RCC. We should look back at the early church,

The first Christians met daily in the temple and ate together in one another’s homes, Acts 2:46. The Christians were united and met regularly at Solomon’s Porch, an area of the temple, Acts 5:12.

They didn't meet for their emotions to be lifted, their emotions would be lifted because they came together as saved souls and worshiped the Lord with Praise and Thanksgiving.

A church as it is called today is not a church, the building is a House of Prayer and Fellowship, not a church.

A church as it is today, is not born again and unborn again souls, it is the body of Christ, the Saved Souls.

Shalom

Sue D. said:

There is both the 'Church' -- body of believers AND the church Building or the place where the people get together to worship.

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Sorry Sue, Not according to scripture there isn't.

The Church, the building as I included earlier is only called a church because the RCC named it so. There is nothing in all scripture that says the building is a church.

The church, the ekklesia, which is in scripture is the body of born again from above saved souls who have been washed and regenerated and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

They can meet in any building, a purpose built one, a house of Prayer and Fellowship (not a church), they can meet in a house, a flat, even a cow shed, the place doesn't matter and the building is never a church. Only as stated above the saved souls are the true church, the ekklesia, the Body of Christ.

This is the big issue, taking what is done today and not how it was, also not understanding scripture regarding the word Church.

B-A-C said:

The Bible says to speak in tongues in church, why would you NOT do what the Bible says?

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Can you confirm the verse that says this please B-A-C

Are you referring to 1 Cor 14:4

The gift of speaking in tongues was one of many given to believers to aid in the building up of the body of Christ, which is the Church. Speaking in tongues for edification Speaking in tongues in itself can benefit a person. Paul states: “He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself.

This verse does not say what you refer to, maybe you have another verse in mind brother.

Shalom

Brother-Paul said:

Sorry Sue, Not according to scripture there isn't.

The Church, the building as I included earlier is only called a church because the RCC named it so. There is nothing in all scripture that says the building is a church.

The church, the ekklesia, which is in scripture is the body of born again from above saved souls who have been washed and regenerated and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

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Well the Bible does mention the temple and the synagogue. Jesus called this "my Father's house".
Luke 2:49; John 2:16; for example.

Also the Bible does say there are unsaved people "in the church", that need to repent. ( Rev chapters 2 and 3 )

Brother-Paul said:

This verse does not say what you refer to, maybe you have another verse in mind brother.

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1Cor 14:26; What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.
1Cor 14:27; If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret;
1Cor 14:28; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.

1Cor 14:22; So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.

1Cor 14:12; So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the edification of the church.
1Cor 14:13; Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.

1Cor 14:23; Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?