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who are those that came out of the great tribulation????

Sue D. said:
In Revelation 7 -- the 144,00 Jews are sealed and sent into the world to evangelize the Jews who'd not already accepted Jesus Christ as their Messiah. vs 14 "These are those who came out of the great tribulation -- referring to those who are arrayed in white robes vs 13 and 14.
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First, can you give a specific verse were it says they will "evangelize to the Jews".
Second why do you think the ones wearing the white robes from "every nation and peoples" would only be Jews?
Third, were they saved before the tribulation and were in it, or can you specifically prove they weren't saved before the tribulation and got saved after it started?
 
First -- read the chapter for yourself for some of those answers.
--the Jews were dispersed amongst their neighboring countries all those centuries ago.

I can't specificially prove anything -- I simply read Scripture.
 
12,000 Jews - those from the tribe of Judah. The rest are from the other 11 tribes of Israel.
 
If the scriptures tell us that they are those whose garments have been washed, then we know for it is spoken us what those garments are.

If the garments are Holy, then it means that the unclean garments are those of sin.
 
Hekuran said:
12,000 Jews - those from the tribe of Judah. The rest are from the other 11 tribes of Israel.
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And those are the Jews who were sealed to go to evangelize the Jews who were not taken up at the time of the rapture of the Church. We are Now in the time of the Gentiles -- but God has not forgotten about His people the Children of Israel / Jews. And it Has been questioned as to whether others will be saved during this time. But it will mean martydom for those who Do accept Christ as their personal Savior.
 
end times the bible says there is a great falling away,,, and revelation keeps saying no one on the whole earth repents,,,,,,,, so I cant help think those that are standing in front of the thrown are born again belivers that were were already born again before the tribulation begun,, and that they did what Jesus instructs us to endure to the end..

no wear can I find in the bible suggesting great revival at the end of times,,,,, it says many fall away no one repents,

as a matter of fact the bible says God is going to send delusions so people wont even be able to come to him and repent if they wanted.


so I can only come to the conclusion that the people that come out of the great tribulation and are standing before the thrown of GOd were saved before the tribulation not during the tribulation.

another thing to consider is the 144,000 jews that are eveangelizing may not lead anyone to CHrist , look at all the old prophets in the OT most of them preached a message that no one listened to either, will it be diferent at the end??? I dont know,, look at the 2 witnesses does not seems like they lead anyone to Christ either.

So I dont know how anyone comes to the conclusion that those standing before the thrown of God were saved during the tribulation, there is no evidence that I can find in scripture that suggest a revival at end times.
 
A closer look at Matt 24...

Matt 24:36; "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

No one but the Father knows when this will happen, not the angels, not even Jesus...

Matt 24:37; "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.

"the coming of the Son of Man". The phrase "the coming of" would seem to indicate that.. well... He is coming... back. This entire passage is in the context of... He is coming back.

Matt 24:38; "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Matt 24:39; and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matt 24:40; "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:41; "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.

The people saw Noah building an Ark for over 50 years. They thought he was crazy. By the time they realized he wasn't crazy, it was too late.

Matt 24:42; "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Matt 24:43; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Matt 24:44; "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.

Be alert. Be awake, be watchful... Be ready. Jesus is coming like a thief in the night, there won't be any warning. One second he'll just appear.. "in the twinkling of an eye".

Matt 24:45; "Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time?
Matt 24:46; "Blessed is that slave whom his master finds so doing when he comes.
Matt 24:47; "Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
Matt 24:48; ''But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,'
Matt 24:49; and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards;
Matt 24:50; the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know,
Matt 24:51; and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This passage ends with two "slaves", or some Bibles say servants, in the Master's house, taking care of the Master's things.
Verse 47 says these people were "put in charge of all His (Jesus) possessions". Obviously an unbeliever wouldn't be in charge on Jesus's possessions.
Obviously an unbeliever would not say "My master is not coming for a long time". Unbelievers don't realize they have a master. (and it's not Jesus)

Now many people tend to twist the rapture up in these verses, and it may be that they happen simultaneously or very close together.
But I notice they very same day (minute?) that the Master finds a good servants, He will also find a few bad servants, and cut them "in pieces" and
assign him a place with the hypocrites. Why isn't there a 7 year gap (or even a 3 1/2 year gap) between what happens to the good servant and the evil
servant? If the righteous were raptured at the beginning of the tribulation, why does He say "Blessed is" the "faithful and sensible" slave at the same time
He cuts up the evil slave?
 
The Book of Revelation was written to scattered churches at the end of the first century facing great hardships. Jews had been free from the obligation to worship the Roman Emperor, but as Christianity became recognised as a separate entity rather than a Jewish sect from Judaism they were no longer protected from this ruling.

If you read the text in the light of what was going on for the readers at the time, many things make a lot more sense. For example, how the first readers would have understood the references to the Beast coming from out of the sea and demanding worship.

The apocalyptic vision gave assurance to those undergoing tribulation, even martyrdom, that God's plans have not been thwarted and that all who persevere in their faith will be victorious.

Today, we can rest in the same assurance. But trying to map the prophecies onto current events does not look to me like a fruitful exercise.
 
Hekuran said:
The Book of Revelation was written to scattered churches at the end of the first century facing great hardships. Jews had been free from the obligation to worship the Roman Emperor, but as Christianity became recognised as a separate entity rather than a Jewish sect from Judaism they were no longer protected from this ruling.

If you read the text in the light of what was going on for the readers at the time, many things make a lot more sense. For example, how the first readers would have understood the references to the Beast coming from out of the sea and demanding worship.

The apocalyptic vision gave assurance to those undergoing tribulation, even martyrdom, that God's plans have not been thwarted and that all who persevere in their faith will be victorious.

Today, we can rest in the same assurance. But trying to map the prophecies onto current events does not look to me like a fruitful exercise.
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who are those that came out of the great tribulation????:eyes:
 
PloughBoy said:
who are those that came out of the great tribulation????:eyes:
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In the first place, those who persevered in their faith through persecution from the Roman Empire. And secondly those in every age who have suffered for the name of Jesus and remained faithful.
 
Hekuran said:
In the first place, those who persevered in their faith through persecution from the Roman Empire. And secondly those in every age who have suffered for the name of Jesus and remained faithful.
Click to expand...

that does not line up with what scripture says, it clearly says these are the ones coming out of the great tribulation

“These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 “Therefore they are before the throne of God,
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore;
the sun shall not strike them,
nor any scorching heat.
 
Dave M said:
that does not line up with what scripture says, it clearly says these are the ones coming out of the great tribulation
Click to expand...

Some people believe "some" of this happened in 70ad. But it's MUCH harder to line that up with scripture.
Many of the reasons it couldn't have been 70ad are covered in...

Amillennialism

Over the years, there have been a lot of debates over when the rapture will happen (for some even if there is a rapture). Will it happen pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib? Everyone has an opinion, but only one of these can be correct. Another less popular subject, that rarely comes up here on...
www.talkjesus.com www.talkjesus.com
 
Dave M said:
that does not line up with what scripture says, it clearly says these are the ones coming out of the great tribulation

“These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 “Therefore they are before the throne of God,
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore;
the sun shall not strike them,
nor any scorching heat.
Click to expand...
I don't see a contradiction between this passage and my earlier description.
 
Is not "Day of The Lord" & Jacob's Trouble" and "The Great Tribulation" most likely the same event. I got that picture just by reading the Bible from front to back on multiple occasions. and some events that is taken in Heaven, That the Bible by snap shot as a Puzzle that has been put together in your "spiritual mind" by The "Spirit of GOD" and the unveiling Of "Jesus Christ"! "Let this mind be in you as it is was in Christ Jesus" Do not the Bible say; we have the mind of Christ. Then why are we divided?

(Phil. 2).
1Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

5In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6Who, being in very nature a God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature b of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

If one has the whole "Word of GOD" in them, and another has only parts, how can they be of one mind. How can they have the same "JOY"? How can they have the same goal? And if One has the whole story and another has only certain events, How can they have the same mind, and another say, you do not need all of that, then how can they come to the same conclusion. Is there not "One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism" and Only, One Way", to get there?
 
PloughBoy said:
Is not "Day of The Lord" & Jacob's Trouble" and "The Great Tribulation" most likely the same event. I got that picture just by reading the Bible from front to back on multiple occasions. and some events that is taken in Heaven, That the Bible by snap shot as a Puzzle that has been put together in your "spiritual mind" by The "Spirit of GOD" and the unveiling Of "Jesus Christ"! "Let this mind be in you as it is was in Christ Jesus" Do not the Bible say; we have the mind of Christ. Then why are we divided?

(Phil. 2).
1Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

5In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6Who, being in very nature a God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature b of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

If one has the whole "Word of GOD" in them, and another has only parts, how can they be of one mind. How can they have the same "JOY"? How can they have the same goal? And if One has the whole story and another has only certain events, How can they have the same mind, and another say, you do not need all of that, then how can they come to the same conclusion. Is there not "One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism" and Only, One Way", to get there?
Click to expand...

Friend,

The scriptures literally teach us to do good and harm none.
 
twcstp111 said:
Friend,

The scriptures literally teach us to do good and harm none.
Click to expand...
But in a more excellent way, The Command is "Let The WORD of GOD dwell in you Richly" It does not say: "Blesseth is the man that do good and harm none" it says: Blesseth is The man who meditates in HIs Word Night And Day" "Moralistic Therapeutic Deism" is Not going to get it.
 
PloughBoy said:
But in a more excellent way, The Command is "Let The WORD of GOD dwell in you Richly" It does not say: "Blesseth is the man that do good and harm none" it says: Blesseth is The man who meditates in HIs Word Night And Day" "Moralistic Therapeutic Deism" is Not going to get it.
Click to expand...

The Word of God teaches us exactly to do good and harm none. If we let Him in, He comes in for exactly this: be good, and wrong none.


1 John 3:7
Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous.
 
Dave M said:
i dont see that the Great tribualtion has happened yet, as I see the book of revelation mostly as a prophecy yet to be fufilled
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Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

This specific great tribulation will be "such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world".. "nor ever will" again afterwards.
There have been dozens of atrocities way worse than the sacking of Jerusalem in 70ad. Ever heard of World war I, or World War II,
Or the civil war?

Even currently Jerusalem has less than 1,000,000 people. Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia
In 70ad, It is thought to have a population of about 50,000 people. There were 7million Jews killed in WWII alone.
Not even close to the worst tribulation.
 
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