I am a believer and also a realist. Here is what we know for sure happens when we die. Our Spirit leaves our flesh,and then we really do not know. Unless someone comes back from the dead to tell us. lol We are told what happens later,but never tells us where we go to wait for this to happen. But what the heck,I will tell you what I think happens just for consideration. ( Eph 2:4-8) When I die my Spirit goes inside of the glory of God seated upon our waiting place,( Eph 2:4-8)at the end God pours us forth from where we are seated already in him to bear new flesh and the rest is history.

Sue D. said:

@Brother-Paul -- well -- not everything got it's start with the RCC. They Do have a lot of false beliefs. Wow -- I don't know Where the cartoon thing about Peter standing at the pearly gates came from. Probably the good works concept.

Well --it Is true that Jesus Christ Is preparing a place for believers in heaven John 14:1-6. Any funeral I've gone to --the message of salvation has been presented. Would you Rather that a preacher would preach a 'fireie gates of hell' sermon at a funeral?! I Could see a pastor sitting down with the family as a result of an accident or fatal illness or whatever and attempting to share salvation with them. I could see the pastor sitting down in the ER trying to comfort the loved ones -- back years ago when my father-in-law passed away -- he'd had friends but had the mouth of a nasty sailor. The hospital chaplain simply said that he'd made his peace with God before dying. I , personally, highly doubt it. I Might be surprised to see hi m in heaven someday. But I kind of doubt it. My husband was actually performing some of the service. What he Did was present a sweet plan of salvation to every one there. There was no point in lambasting anyone - especially a dead person. A funeral is supposed to be a gentle saying good bye.

Now - for a Believer -- it can be a time of rejoicing. They, after all Are with their Savior.

@ B.-A-C -- Jesus Christ will be ruling with righteous justice. He will be the authority figure.

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Greeting Sue,

It is not what is said, it is the way it is said or put.

Of course a person wouldn't preach the gates of hell at a funeral, that is silly talk, but in remembering a persons life it is easy to add in ... God is creating a place in heaven with many rooms, the New Jerusalem will come down to earth as scripture tells us, God with man, as it was in the beginning, Emmanuel God with us.

I never said the person goes to heaven when they die, or a room is prepared for this deceased person, I also did not mis lead the living into thinking they will go to heaven as a room is created for all when they pass away.

Let us never forget the preaching is to those still alive not the person who has died. So any lies, scriptural mis truths, are misleading the people who are alive, not the dead.

The truth is in most cases we do not know if a person accepted Christ before the last breath, so we shouldn't preach knowing they are saved because we don't know, but we also don't preach the gates of hell as you put it. We should be mindful of the person who has died but also mindful what ever we say is to the living not the dead.

I feel you are probably talking as a pastor's wife where more often than not the funeral may be for a saved soul or church goer. I was covering a broader spectrum when I started what I said prior to this post. There are many funerals and crematorium services held in city after city, daily, where the passage from John's Gospel is said/preached to all as if they all go to heaven when they die.

We must not twist scripture in any way to make it fit a situation, for compassionate reasons or any other. Would you say to a lost soul no worries God has created a place for you when you die, a room a mansion in heaven, or course you wouldn't, so why preach scriptural incorrect items to the living about a lost soul who has died?

It is not what is said, it is the way it is said or put, but what ever we say must be scriptural correct at all times, or don't say it.

Shalom

Sue D. said:

Well --it Is true that Jesus Christ Is preparing a place for believers in heaven John 14:1-6.

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John 14:1-6
Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know." 5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?" 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

v1 starts with a comforting message, then states 'you' believe in God believe also in me. Ask most people if they believe in God they will say yes, but are they born from above through Jesus? So the general comforting statement is accepted.

At the funeral of my in laws, though they had not accepted the Lord, I also included John 3:1-7 to ensure there was nominal understanding with the scriptures.

v2 is so often preached at funerals and crematorium on it's own.

It is sad, it is misleading the living, we cannot mis lead the dead, we all have to our last breath to repent and accept Jesus as our Lord and Saviour.

But note here, Jesus says he is preparing a place (for s saved soul) not that it is prepared.

v3 Jesus says, if Jesus prepares a place (for the saved soul) he will come again and receive us unto himself. He will come again, He will come again and receive us unto Himself. That does not say we go to heaven when we die. Our spirit does, but we do not.

v4 gives further clarification, this message is for the saved souls, those in Christ and Christ in them.

Then after Thomas' question Jesus concludes in by, He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, no one comes to the Father except through him.

Although by concludes the way, these verses must be read or preached in context with The Word as a whole. No where in scripture does it say we go to heaven when we die. V3 above also confirms, Jesus will come again and receive all saved souls unto himself, he knows his sheep, his sheep know him,

V1 Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.

Christ will come again, the New Jerusalem will come down from heaven onto the new earth, we will be with our Lord forever, on the new earth, in the New Jerusalem, which is full of rooms/ mansions which will be completed prepared for us and our new glorious bodies

Thanks be to God.
Father, Son and holy spirit, in Jesus Name, Amen

Nicola jane said:

absolutely fabulous cant wait but much work to be done in the meantime souls to be saved the great commission we are all so blessed x just my little bit x

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So true Nicola,

We are not saved to go to heaven, we are not saved so that there will be no more pain, suffering or crying, we are saved to become disciples for our Lord. When on earth our Lord covered the Holy Land and surrounding areas, why no further, because he I initially came as a Jew, to the Jews, as their promised messiah, he fulfilled prophesy, he told them of their errors and pointed them to the Father, but they failed to listen, they failed to accept he was the son of the living God, 'is he not Joseph's son' they said. Christ fulfilled all scripture and created a way for Gentile's to come to God, which infuriated them even more. God's will must always be done, it is his will, through Jesus, who gave the Great Commission, that we, his disciples shall go forth in His Name, sharing The Truth in The Word.


Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

Bless you

I believe we go to the hereafter's version of a mudroom in order to get cleaned up and presentable before being permitted to be face-to-face with God, the almighty. That mudroom is otherwise known as purgatory.

@Struggling Christian -- we should stick with God's Word -- there Are belief systems that teach purgatory, but it's not found in Scripture. This - here and now- is where a person takes care of their personal sin situation. Actually, it was taken care of at the cross. The blood of Jesus Christ was shed on the cross for you and I and every one else. 'we' need to recognize our need For salvation, repent of our sins -- tell God the Father Through Jesus Christ that we are sorry for sinning -- believe that Jesus Christ is God's Son - that we want Him to be our Savior. There's no other way To be 'saved'. Thank Him For His salvation -- Amen. We will have a desire to be reading God'sWord and talking to Him in prayer. We are to be growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Because of 'this' -- there is no need For a mudroom / purgatory. And, besides, there isn't one , Anyway. In John 14:6 Jesus Christ is telling us that "He is the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father, but by Me." Jesus Christ Is the Truth.

Jesus Christ became the 'mudroom' for us at the cross of calvary -- His blood being shed on the cross for our sins.

@Brother-Paul -- John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that who so ever believes on Him, will not perish but have everlasting / eternal life." As a person hears God Word - the Holy Spirit works through His Word -- they will realize their need For accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. That person either accepts or reject's the salvation that God makes available -- Then upon Accepting -- a person becomes a disciple of Jesus Christ. A by-product Of our salvation Is eternal life in heaven -- being in heaven -- more accurately -- the future home in the New Jerusalem is the absence of pain, suffering -- all of those positives. No more inner guilt -- sorrow.

And, yes, as a Jewish person -- He Did come for His people - the Jews and then salvation was extended to the rest of the world -- Gentiles. Salvation is provided for All - - not everyone will accept God's salvation.

I Was a pastor's wife for a few years, many years ago. Every pastor / pastor's wife - knows that some funerals are Not easy to reside over. And sometimes its due to the age, circumstances of their deaths. And sometimes it's because the person's life gave no indication Of their salvation. And because "by their fruits, we will know them." A person's life Will reflect the presence of the Holy Spirit residing within them.

There was a pastor and family who had just accepted a call to pastor a particular church. They were barely even unpacked when one of their congregation passed away. He said it was hard to do that funeral because he literally had no clue as to who the person was. He got to know him/ her through talking with the family members and getting the particular of the death. The aim should Always be to share plan of salvation -- when a person is dead and gone -- they are In eternity. It's for the Living that the funeral is given. Scripture is meant to Comfort Through God's plan for Our salvation.

No pastor should Ever 'lie' at a funeral service or before or after. The person who died did not live in a bubble. A funeral is to be remembering remembering their lives. -- in a positive way. And a pastor will always meet with the family before hand. Talk about the person who passed. It's part of the mourning process. They plan the service -- what songs to sing- what will be said - or Not said.

And, just to clarify -- we Can know that a person is a believer or not. And while alive in the here and now -- we Can know that we're a believer or not. There's no need to have to Doubt about it.

IF a non-believer was sitting at their computer reading 'this' , he/ she Could 'right now' talk to God about their need For His salvation accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. Thank Him For their salvation and there would never be any need To question 'Am I really saved or not".

Brother-Paul said:

I would think the idea started with the RCC, Peter sranding at the Pearly Gate checking people into the heavenly city. A bit like the other false beliefs, those saved will be sat on clouds strumming harps,to be sat on clouds playing harps they would be in the first heaven, the air from earth to the edge of our atmosphere! It's Crazy yet people believe these lies.

For years it has been (wrongly) preached that we go to heaven when we die, false stories to believers who know no better, false stories to those greiving the loss of a loved one, including the lie they have gone to heaven, and that God has created a place in heaven for them, a mansion! Yet the person died is a lost soul! Lie upon lie, from the master of lies satan himself, the deceiver of souls.

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Meanwhile the Christian's real hope, the Resurrection is relegated to the sideline.

Our Real hope -- anticipation -- is in Christ. In this present time And the future.

Sue D. said:

@Struggling Christian -- we should stick with God's Word -- there Are belief systems that teach purgatory, but it's not found in Scripture. This - here and now- is where a person takes care of their personal sin situation. Actually, it was taken care of at the cross. The blood of Jesus Christ was shed on the cross for you and I and every one else. 'we' need to recognize our need For salvation, repent of our sins -- tell God the Father Through Jesus Christ that we are sorry for sinning -- believe that Jesus Christ is God's Son - that we want Him to be our Savior. There's no other way To be 'saved'. Thank Him For His salvation -- Amen. We will have a desire to be reading God'sWord and talking to Him in prayer. We are to be growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Because of 'this' -- there is no need For a mudroom / purgatory. And, besides, there isn't one , Anyway. In John 14:6 Jesus Christ is telling us that "He is the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father, but by Me." Jesus Christ Is the Truth.

Jesus Christ became the 'mudroom' for us at the cross of calvary -- His blood being shed on the cross for our sins.

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I understand all that. It's also my understanding that protestant denominations dropped some books of the bible that did speak of purgatory. Yes, I believe that repentant Christians are forgiven for their sins and that, when they die, they will be saved. However, I also believe that we retain a sinful nature and that we must be cleansed as nothing unclean can be in the presence of God, right? We have free will. I don't believe that, when we die, we're suddenly brainwashed into no longer liking some of our Earthly, sinful pleasures. So, it's my belief that we need to unlearn some of what we've learned and, by our own free-will, reject such Earthly, unholy thoughts. Once we have done so, then we will be purified and ready to meet the almighty face-to-face.

Now, if I'm wrong and we instantly meet God when we die, that's ok with me!

Sue D. said:

Jesus Christ became the 'mudroom' for us at the cross of calvary -- His blood being shed on the cross for our sins.

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It's not about being forgiven, it's about being pure enough to be in the presence of God, or so I believe.

Several have asked, what happens after believers meet the Lord in the air? Here is my understanding. The Greeks had a concept of Parousia. As I understand it this word means presence or arrival. I understand that in ancient times when a king or worrier would return home victorious the people would go out to meet him and accompany him back to the city. It was usually a celebratory time. The word Parousia is often used of Christ's return. I believe it is this concept that we are seeing when the dead are raised and everyone meets the Lord in the air. The believers are going out to meet their victorious king and accompany Him back to the city, Jerusalem.

Upon our salvation -- God sees us through the blood of Jesus Christ -- justified -- just as if we hadn't sinned. We'll never be pure enough without the blood of Christ in this life time.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace we are saved, through faith, and it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man / woman should boast. -- nothing we can do while here on earth will add or subtract for / against our salvation. It's through the shed blood of Christ that we are made pure.

Butch5 said:

Meanwhile the Christian's real hope, the Resurrection is relegated to the sideline.

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Do you believe that Christians are in a state of limbo (dead) upon their death or do believe that they are conscious but in another realm? Is it possible that we are alive in another realm before we are eventually resurrected to live on Earth?

Struggling Christain said:

I understand all that. It's also my understanding that protestant denominations dropped some books of the bible that did speak of purgatory. Yes, I believe that repentant Christians are forgiven for their sins and that, when they die, they will be saved. However, I also believe that we retain a sinful nature and that we must be cleansed as nothing unclean can be in the presence of God, right? We have free will. I don't believe that, when we die, we're suddenly brainwashed into no longer liking some of our Earthly, sinful pleasures. So, it's my belief that we need to unlearn some of what we've learned and, by our own free-will, reject such Earthly, unholy thoughts. Once we have done so, then we will be purified and ready to meet the almighty face-to-face.

Now, if I'm wrong and we instantly meet God when we die, that's ok with me!

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We don't instantly meet God when we die. The Scriptures are pretty clear on that. Take John's words for example.

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
(Jn. 3:13 KJV)

John wrote about 60 years after the Resurrection and at that time said no man has ascended up to heaven. We also have Paul's words.

I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;1 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen (1 Tim. 6:1 KJV)

Paul says no man has seen not can see the Father.

Struggling Christain said:

I understand all that. It's also my understanding that protestant denominations dropped some books of the bible that did speak of purgatory. Yes, I believe that repentant Christians are forgiven for their sins and that, when they die, they will be saved. However, I also believe that we retain a sinful nature and that we must be cleansed as nothing unclean can be in the presence of God, right? We have free will. I don't believe that, when we die, we're suddenly brainwashed into no longer liking some of our Earthly, sinful pleasures. So, it's my belief that we need to unlearn some of what we've learned and, by our own free-will, reject such Earthly, unholy thoughts. Once we have done so, then we will be purified and ready to meet the almighty face-to-face.

Now, if I'm wrong and we instantly meet God when we die, that's ok with me!

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There are a number of books that were dropped from Scripture because they did not meet the standards that were set for accepting or rejecting books. That criteria can be found by Googling it. There was one verse that suggested that, yes.
But it does not agree with the rest of Scripture. And yes, we Do retain a sin nature. And as a believer, the Holy Spirit Does convict us as we Do sin during any given time -- we simply acknowledge that to God - ask forgiveness -- and continue living. As a believer -- we won't Want to continue sinning. The Holy Spirit helps us live a more Godly life. All of that happens once a person Has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. We don't have to be afraid of dying with unforgiven sins in our lives.

We are either with Christ upon our death or waiting for judgement day as non- believers. No purgatory. As a believer we will be with Christ -- where ever He is -- we will be. Our physical body will die Or be taken up at the time of the rapture of the Church. Which is another subject.

Struggling Christain said:

Do you believe that Christians are in a state of limbo (dead) upon their death or do believe that they are conscious but in another realm? Is it possible that we are alive in another realm before we are eventually resurrected to live on Earth?

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I believe that when a person dies, they are dead. I don't believe they are in another state or in limbo, etc. I believe they are dead. After many years of studying this subject that is the conclusion I have come to. When I look at the creation of man in Gen 2:7 I see a man created from the dust of the earth. That is what a man is. God then breathed something of Himself, the breath or spirit (same word) of life into that man and that man became a living soul. From this I conclude that a living soul consists of the man, body of dust, and the breath or spirit of God. These two components together form a soul. We are told in Scripture that when a man dies, the breath or spirit (which is of God) returns to God and the body returns to dust. Since the breath or spirit of life and the man, the body, have separated, the soul no longer exists. The breath or spirit of life, which is of God, returns to Him, the body returns to dust, thus there is nothing left to live on after death

Butch5 said:

I believe that when a person dies, they are dead. I don't believe they are in another state or in limbo, etc. I believe they are dead. After many years of studying this subject that is the conclusion I have come to. When I look at the creation of man in Gen 2:7 I see a man created from the dust of the earth. That is what a man is. God then breathed something of Himself, the breath or spirit (same word) of life into that man and that man became a living soul. From this I conclude that a living soul consists of the man, body of dust, and the breath or spirit of God. These two components together form a soul. We are told in Scripture that when a man dies, the breath or spirit (which is of God) returns to God and the body returns to dust. Since the breath or spirit of life and the man, the body, have separated, the soul no longer exists. The breath or spirit of life, which is of God, returns to Him, the body returns to dust, thus there is nothing left to live on after death

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Do you believe that some "near-death" experiences are valid?

Sue D. said:

We are either with Christ upon our death or waiting for judgement day as non- believers. No purgatory. As a believer we will be with Christ -- where ever He is -- we will be. Our physical body will die Or be taken up at the time of the rapture of the Church. Which is another subject.

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Greetings Sue

When we die our body goes into the ground, returns to the dust of the earth. A saved souls spirit goes to be with the lord, we are not with the Lord in heaven, except in spirit.

When Christ returns in Glory, the rapture will take place, at the twinkling of an eye, the dead in christ will be raised up and meet the Lord in the air and we will be with the Lord forever. But this will not occur until, there has been a falling away and the man of sin is revealed. Therefore it will not be pre Tribulation, the earliest could be is mid-trib, but seems more likely at the point of Christ's return in Glory when the devil is defeated.

The saved souls are raised to judgement for what they have done for the Lord, the great commission makes this clear. They receive eternal life with Jesus.

The lost souls, who didn't opt the free gift of salvation are raised to judgement for all theirs sins this life. They receive eternal condemnation. The wages of sin is death.