The rapture occurs before tribulation IMO because tribulation has a purpose, the purpose of tribulation has nothing to do with the Church. The tribulations is used to finish his discipline of the nation Israel. As I am sure most know the Church is never mentioned during tribulation which would suggest it is not there.
Tribulation seems to be all about Isreals salvation not the Church IMO

Where Does the Bible Teach the Doctrine of the Rapture? | John Ankerberg Show

What scriptural passages teach the doctrine of the Rapture?
Well, there are really three different passages in the New Testament which are the basic foundational passages for the whole doctrine of the Rapture of the Church. The first one is in John 14:1-3. Jesus has gathered with His disciples in the Upper Room. It’s the night before He goes to the cross; and He had just been warning them at the end of Chapter 13 that He’s going to leave them soon and they were really troubled over that. He realized that and so He said to them:

Let not your heart be troubled. You believe in God, believe also in Me. In my Father’s house are many mansions. If it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you, and if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself, so that where I am there you may be also.
Here Jesus was giving a promise to His believers that even though He was going to leave them on the day of His ascension, return to the Father’s house in Heaven, that He wasn’t going to leave them forever; that the day would come when He would leave the Father’s house in Heaven, He would come down toward the earth where they are, that He would come for the purpose of removing them from the earth and taking them back to His Father’s house to live in the mansions or dwelling places which He would be preparing for them while He is away. And it’s very significant to see that He’s declaring what the purpose of it is: “so that where I am, there you may be also.” Very personal note here that in that coming, He would come to take His Bride the Church so that they could be together with Him.

The second key passage is 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, where Paul says to his readers:

Behold, I show you a mystery; we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump. For the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed.
There Paul is emphasizing the fact that there would be an entire generation of Christians who would never experience physical death and the reason they wouldn’t is because the Lord was going to come and remove them from the earth while they’re still alive before they would experience physical death.

So he’s saying not every Christian will die, but everyone will be changed. And he emphasizes that the change will involve a change in their body. They now have a mortal body, which is subject to disease, deformity and death; but when this change takes place, they will receive an immortal body, which will never die again, which will never be subject to disease and deformity.

Paul is also emphasizing here the extreme rapidity of the change in the body of Christians when this event takes place. The change in that body will take place faster than that [snap]—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. So the rapidity of the change in their bodies that will happen at the Rapture of the Church.

But the third and really the most extensive passage on the Rapture is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18:

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. (NKJV)
Jesus is indicating here that the day is coming when He will come out of Heaven, He will bring with Him the souls of those Christians who have already died. When they died, their souls were separated from their bodies; their bodies were buried in the ground and their souls were ushered immediately into the presence of God in Heaven.

In 2 Corinthians 5, Paul says for the Christian “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.” So when they die, their souls leave their bodies, their souls to the presence of the Lord in Heaven, and that’s where they stay in Heaven until Christ comes to Rapture the Church. He will bring their souls with Him out of Heaven down toward the earth. We are told that He will come with the blast of a trumpet, the trump of God, with the voice of the archangel. Apparently there will be a great archangel who will accompany Him as an escort from the Father’s house in Heaven.

And then Paul says when that happens, some intriguing things will begin to transpire here on the face of the earth. The bodies of the Christians who have died will be resurrected from the dead, and the implication is that their descending souls that are coming down from Heaven with Christ will be reunited with their resurrected bodies. But then Paul says those Christians who are alive and still being alive on the earth when the event of the Rapture takes place, that they, together with the resurrected Christians, will be caught up from the earth to meet the Lord Jesus in the air.

Revelation 3:10
Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

The above verse, that is Jesus speaking sounds like the Rapture to me.

Since I started this thread, some of my beliefs have changed slightly.

I've read a few more books, talked to a few more people and been less sure of certain things.

There has been much debate... did I say much? I mean MUCH debate about what and when it is and who it affects.
It seems most people put the timing of it around the tribulation. (But not everyone).

Some people think saved Christians will be gathered up before the tribulation. There are some verses that could support this.

1 Thes 5:9; For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Jesus tells the church of Philadelphia...

Rev 3:10; 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Some people think saved Christians will be gathered up after the tribulation. There are some verses that could support this as well.

Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Rev 2:10; 'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Hmmm... why is Philadelphia kept from the hour of testing, but yet Smyrna has to be tested? Could it be different for different groups of people?

Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

This verses could mean the church has already been raptured, but yet some "new" Christians will get saved during the tribulation.

The fifth trumpet judgement in Revelation speaks of flying scorpion locusts that have the power to cause men great pain and torment for 5 months. But yet they are told not to hurt people
who have the seal of God on them.

Rev 9:4; They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

So again, either the church hasn't been raptured yet, or else these are "new" Christians saved after the rapture.

Now the question for me here is... how do all of these verses about the rapture tie in to something called the "resurrection".

Are they the same thing? Are they different? How so? What IS the rapture? What IS the resurrection?

I used to think everyone agreed on this, but it seems opinions are all over the place.

Some people believe that when you become a Christian, your spirit immediately goes up into heaven. (But of course your body stays here).
They would say only the body is raptured/resurrected at some point in the future, because your soul/spirit is already in heaven.

Some people believe that when you physically die, your spirit immediately goes up into heaven (But of course your body stays here).
Again, much like the people above, they believe your body gets raptured/resurrected at some point in the future, presumably on "the last day".

Some people believe in something called "soul sleep". Both your spirit and your body lie in the ground (or sea, or ashes, or whatever state your body is in)
until the rapture/resurrection. Then both your spirit and your body are called up into heaven at the same time.

As you can see, this ties in quite a bit on your perception of what the resurrection is.

Curtis said:

There is the "first fruits" which the Bible tells us that Jesus is the first fruits. (1 Cor 15:20)
The second phase of this one harvest would be the "main harvest" which would be to us as the "rapture"
The last phase of this "one" harvest" is called "the gleaning" which to us would be the resurrection of the "tribulations saints" at Jesus second coming. When all three of these phases is completed then "the one harvest is complete", and then there will be one thousand years between the Harvest (resurrection) of God's people and resurrection of the wicked.

Click to expand...

Some people believe this has one name, but is multiple events over different time lines.

Yet other people believe our bodies are never resurrected. This is taken two different ways.
1. We never get another body at all. Only our soul/spirit is resurrected.
2. We get a new glorified/spiritual body like Jesus has, and the old body just ceases to exist.


Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

A timing question here... It seems there are people who come out o the tribulation who will rule and reign with Jesus for a thousand years (the millennial reign).
It says "the rest of the dead" don't come to life until the thousand years is over. It says "This" is the first resurrection.

Now I used to think the "first resurrection" meant the "rest of the dead" who come back to life later. But that doesn't make sense with the next verse.

It seems the "first resurrection" are those who will reign with Jesus for a thousand years, so obviously... this can't be "the rest of the dead".
It seems the "first resurrection" are those who were beheaded during the tribulation (because of their faith and testimony)

So this means, that unless the church is raptured previous to these events, ... ONLY... those who come out the tribulation will reign with Jesus during the millennial reign.

On the other hand, if there are multiple resurrections it seems there are at least two, (one for the saved, and one for the un-saved) but possibly more than two?

Great thoughts on this subject BAC, off to church now but look forward to some replies hopefully when I get back.

I always thought the

first Resurrection was for only believers everyone not just those that got beheaded

and the second one was for non- believers,

B-A-C said:

Now I used to think the "first resurrection" meant the "rest of the dead" who come back to life later. But that doesn't make sense with the next verse.

Click to expand...

Besides that, what would we call this resurrection? The pre-first resurrection? The before-the-first resurrection?

B-A-C said:

Since I started this thread, some of my beliefs have changed slightly.

I've read a few more books, talked to a few more people and been less sure of certain things.

There has been much debate... did I say much? I mean MUCH debate about what and when it is and who it affects.
It seems most people put the timing of it around the tribulation. (But not everyone).

Some people think saved Christians will be gathered up before the tribulation. There are some verses that could support this.

1 Thes 5:9; For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Jesus tells the church of Philadelphia...

Rev 3:10; 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Some people think saved Christians will be gathered up after the tribulation. There are some verses that could support this as well.

Matt 24:21; "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.

Matt 24:29; "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Matt 24:30; "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Rev 2:10; 'Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, so that you will be tested, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Hmmm... why is Philadelphia kept from the hour of testing, but yet Smyrna has to be tested? Could it be different for different groups of people?

Rev 7:14; I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

This verses could mean the church has already been raptured, but yet some "new" Christians will get saved during the tribulation.

The fifth trumpet judgement in Revelation speaks of flying scorpion locusts that have the power to cause men great pain and torment for 5 months. But yet they are told not to hurt people
who have the seal of God on them.

Rev 9:4; They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

So again, either the church hasn't been raptured yet, or else these are "new" Christians saved after the rapture.

Now the question for me here is... how do all of these verses about the rapture tie in to something called the "resurrection".

Are they the same thing? Are they different? How so? What IS the rapture? What IS the resurrection?

I used to think everyone agreed on this, but it seems opinions are all over the place.

Some people believe that when you become a Christian, your spirit immediately goes up into heaven. (But of course your body stays here).
They would say only the body is raptured/resurrected at some point in the future, because your soul/spirit is already in heaven.

Some people believe that when you physically die, your spirit immediately goes up into heaven (But of course your body stays here).
Again, much like the people above, they believe your body gets raptured/resurrected at some point in the future, presumably on "the last day".

Some people believe in something called "soul sleep". Both your spirit and your body lie in the ground (or sea, or ashes, or whatever state your body is in)
until the rapture/resurrection. Then both your spirit and your body are called up into heaven at the same time.

As you can see, this ties in quite a bit on your perception of what the resurrection is.

Click to expand...

So, there are scriptures for Pretrib, and there are scriptures for post trib...Has it ocurred to you that it's both. There is a rapture, a catching up of the bride before the tribulation, then at the end of tribulation Jesus returns with His bride, and gathers up the rest of the saints? The bride, as you know, is the one who has made herself ready for the groom...The others will join the wedding party.
Here's the confusion point to the rapture...."The entire church is the bride" If you believe this teaching, then you screw up a whole lot of other scriptures that say otherwise. There is not one single verse in the Bible that says the church is the bride. Yet there are many verses that talk about the bride. Christians need to dig them all up and put them into context. The bride has made herself ready! Yet how many Christians are sitting around waiting for God to make them ready? How many Christians believe, contrary to the Word, that all we have to do to be part of the bride is to get saved?
Listen! Getting saved is simply getting saved. That is our starting point, not our destination. Now...."Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" with fear and trembling, used to describe the anxiety of one who distrusts his ability completely to meet all requirements, but religiously does his utmost to fulfill his duty

B-A-C said:

On the other hand, if there are multiple resurrections it seems there are at least two, (one for the saved, and one for the un-saved) but possibly more than two?

Click to expand...

from what I understand the first Resurrection may happen in stages, but is for all believers and only believers.

....................................... stages
.....................................................................................1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.


....................................................................................................Matthew 27:52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised 53.And having gone forth out of the tombs after His resurrection, they .......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................entered into the holy city and appeared to many.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

Revelation 20:4
Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.


then the second resurrection is for the wicked I think after the 1000 year rule of Christ and all his saints is my understanidng

I know my view changes on revelations, I got to wash a house recently for a penicostal preacher (80+ years old and still preaching) who wrote a book on revelations and we talked about for some time, he gave me a free copy of the book, he seems to be pre-trib all the way. I really dont see how anyone can be 100% certain of the timing of the rapture.

B-A-C said:

Some people believe this has one name, but is multiple events over different time lines.

Yet other people believe our bodies are never resurrected. This is taken two different ways.
1. We never get another body at all. Only our soul/spirit is resurrected.
2. We get a new glorified/spiritual body like Jesus has, and the old body just ceases to exist.


Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

A timing question here... It seems there are people who come out o the tribulation who will rule and reign with Jesus for a thousand years (the millennial reign).
It says "the rest of the dead" don't come to life until the thousand years is over. It says "This" is the first resurrection.

Now I used to think the "first resurrection" meant the "rest of the dead" who come back to life later. But that doesn't make sense with the next verse.

It seems the "first resurrection" are those who will reign with Jesus for a thousand years, so obviously... this can't be "the rest of the dead".
It seems the "first resurrection" are those who were beheaded during the tribulation (because of their faith and testimony)

So this means, that unless the church is raptured previous to these events, ... ONLY... those who come out the tribulation will reign with Jesus during the millennial reign.

On the other hand, if there are multiple resurrections it seems there are at least two, (one for the saved, and one for the un-saved) but possibly more than two?

Click to expand...

There are only "two" resurrections, one for the righteous, and one for the unrighteous.

Act 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust.

The two resurrections happen at different times. The resurrection of the just happens in three phases, but they are just considered "one" resurrection as Jesus is called the "firstfruits". Phase one has already happened when Jesus was raised up from the dead, and we also were raised up together with him, and now sitting in Heavenly places in Christ.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

The resurrection of the "dead" is the resurrection of the "body"

All praises to FATHER AHAYAH YASHAYAH WA RAACH!

backNforth,
Keep teaching TRUTH of scripture!

John 12:38,40 [38]That the saying of Esaias the Prophet might be fulfilled, which hee spake, Lord, who hath beleeued our report? and to whom hath the arme of the Lord beene reuealed? [40]He hath blinded their eyes, and hardned their heart, that they should not see with their eyes, nor vnderstand with their heart, and be conuerted, and I should heale them.

@B-A-C

Greetings,

not sure if you are still interested in this topic and.or are satisfied with all you understand about it.
I shall state quite clearly now that i do not at all profess to be able to fill any gaps [if there are any] and i certainly do not pretend to be your teacher!

regarding your posts here and this in particular...

B-A-C said:

Now the question for me here is... how do all of these verses about the rapture tie in to something called the "resurrection".

Are they the same thing? Are they different? How so? What IS the rapture? What IS the resurrection?

Click to expand...

may i add one other 'dimension'? Redemption.

Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.
Ephesians 1:14

Now it is God who establishes both us and you in Christ. He anointed us, placed His seal on us, and put His Spirit in our hearts as a pledge of what is to come.
2Corinthians 1:21-22 [Berean Study Bible]

Now He which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. [KJV]

see also Ephesians chapter 1

and this magnificent passage [and the words that follow it]

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together.


For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Romans 8: 12-25

(see also 2 Corinthians 5:1-10)

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Titus 2:13 [KJV]
as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
[Berean Study Bible]


Bless you ....><>

I have often wondered about that passage.


Rom 8:17; and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.
Rom 8:18; For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.

This is similar to 2 Cor.

2 Cor 4:8; we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing;
2 Cor 4:9; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;
2 Cor 4:10; always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.
2 Cor 4:11; For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.
2 Cor 4:12; So death works in us, but life in you.

Are we really afflicted? Perplexed? Persecuted? Delivered over to death? ... so that the life of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal bodies.
As you quoted in Romans 8, are we "fellow heirs with Christ"... if we DON'T suffer with Him?

Just a thought.

B-A-C said:

Are we really afflicted? Perplexed? Persecuted? Delivered over to death? ... so that the life of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal bodies.
As you quoted in Romans 8, are we "fellow heirs with Christ"... if we DON'T suffer with Him?

Just a thought.

Click to expand...

Yes B-A-C,
i know and have asked myself that and probably will do

usually we tend to try to make things fit so as to convince ourselves, a bit like when one likens themselves to Job.

I was actually considering what you said as i was posting before.

Godspeed


Bless you ....><>

Greetings my brothers and sisters, I'll jump into the mix and share something I hope will be of value.

Obviously this is one of those topics that people have very strong opinions on but hopefully I can share some light.
I won't tell you what to believe but regardless of which side you are on I think you will find some truth in my statements.

So there are many big events in the Bible that relate to the end times.

There is the concept of the Millennial Rule (which some believe in and others don't)
There is the Pre/Mid/Post and A-Tribulation camp
Then there is the Rapture discussion
There is also the topic of the Anti-Christ,
There is the Nation of Israel and their role in events.
There are the words of Jesus.
There are the words of the Prophets.
Etc,etc

As we think about this very complication topic, let us pray to God for wisdom. Our Lord tells us,
"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."
However let us do so with a humble heart, being married to the truth not our position. For example @B-A-C displayed
great humility when he shared that his position has changed some. I rarely see people humble enough
to listen to the point where they change their position. Thanks brother for serving as a good example for others.

With all of that said, what I have to add is that when you consider your position and all the
concepts above ask yourself, is there internal alignment so that your position on all of those
concepts flows together into one coherent narrative?

I think that this is sound advice. Does your view of the Rapture fit with your view of the Anti Christ?
Does your Pre, Mid , Post, or ATrib view fit with your concept of if there is or is not a millennial Kingdom.
As we seek alignment and internal consistency I think God will show us where we err and can better enlighten us on the truth.
Unfortunately at times it is easy to hold to a position and not realize that it does not fit well with
our other positions in the Bible.

One of the things that wowed people about Jesus was that when he talked, even though some things were mysterious,
when people were enlightened it seemed to bring many concepts that they had in their mind into alignment. He not only
spoke about their present day, but he tied it into the prophets of old and tied it all together so that the truth spoke for itself.

Much Love