@Waring Read At Your Own Risk Of Freedom

Rom 4:25 Jesus was delivered for “our offences,” and was “raised” again “for our justification.”

Sometimes it’s best to present knowledge as simple as possible. I’ve chosen to give little information at this time on the subject of sin without debating it. Viewers understand little by little God’s truth is being presented; and they understand what it means to be free in Christ.

Jesus has made Believers free in our hearts and in our minds from sin; only if we believe the principle of what Jesus has done on the cross (Joh. 8:31, 32).

What “offences” has Jesus delivered believers from?

G3900 (offences)
paraptōma
From G3895; “a side slip” (lapse or deviation), that is, (“unintentional”) “error”or (wilful) “transgression”: - fall, fault, offence, “sin,” trespass.

Jesus has delivered us from all “sins” of unintentional slip-ups, as well as, willful transgression of sin.

G1347 (justified)
dikaiōsis
From G1344; “acquittal” (for Christ’s sake): - justification.
verb (used with object), ac·quit·ted,ac·quit·ting.
to relieve from a charge of fault or crime;declare not guilty:
They acquitted him of the crime. The jury acquitted her, but I still think she's guilty.
to release or discharge (a person) from anobligation. to settle or satisfy (a debt, obligation,claim, etc.).

What has Jesus justified us unto?

We have been made Rightoues in Christ after our acquittal from sin. However, after Jesus has given His life for us, many that say they believe in Him has spoken agianst what he's done and still say, they believe they are guilty of sin. Once a believer is acquitted, they can never be charge again for sin (double jepordy). This is why God has said, He will not remember man’s sins. We've been acquitted!!!!!

Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will “I remember no more.”

Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

bibleguy said:

Yes, we could not live without His mercy (Gr. "ἔλεος", Heb. "חֶסֶד").

But, it's clear that God's ἔλεος does not extend to all people.

Rather, it extends to those who love God in obedience to Torah commands (Dt. 5:10).

And, it's proper for us to make correct judgements (1 Cor. 11:13; Jn. 7:24; Ac. 4:19; 1 Cor. 5:12; 1 Cor. 6:3; 1 Cor. 10:15).

And, it's proper for us to use Scripture to set forth a judgment of rebuke, correction, and training (2 Ti. 3:16).

But of course, it's not my job to judge the secrets of another person's heart....that's the Lord's job.

blessings...

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We are all free to rely on the understanding that we or humanity holds. I can only trust that God's got me, whatever I do, and He alone is righteous whatever He does with me. It is no mere human, you or I or any other, that I am counting on. I can only count on the One: God/Jesus who is more than mere human like all of us or the rest of humanity.

regibassman57 said:

@bibleguy,
A forced choice affects a person who is tempted to do something pleasurable; but because they know they will be punished or die, they reconsider their actions. Not because they love God, but because they are fearful of God’s wrath.

This is different than a free choice. A free choice gives Grace to do as you please without being punished or die if you sin one time. Grace give a person the freedom, with time, to make choices right or wrong without the law immediately condemning them. And if the law doesn't see the person's error, God will.

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Hello,

I don't think your underlying premise is valid.

You wrote: "Not because they love God, but because they are fearful of God’s wrath."

My response: You appear to be assuming that a person who fears God's wrath does not love God. Right?

If so, then that's unbiblical.

After all, we who love God (Dt. 6:4-5) should ALSO fear God (Dt. 5:29), for that is knowledge (Pr. 1:7) and wisdom (Pr. 9:10), and is inspired by the Holy Spirit (Is. 11:2).

And, who said the law immediately condemns faithful people who sin one time?

Again, that's unbiblical. The Torah makes provision for the sin of the people (Lev. 16:34) without "immediately condemning them" to be "punished or die".

So, it's clear that you have an incorrect conception of the nature of the life and times of ancient Israel.

We had grace then (Ex. 33:13) and we have grace now (Eph. 2:8).

We had mercy then (Dt. 5:10) and we have mercy now (2 Ti. 1:2).

We had Torah then (1 Ki. 2:3) and we have Torah now (Jer. 31:33; Heb. 8:10; 10:15-16).

We had risk of immediate death then (remember Uzzah?) and the risk of immediate death now (Ac. 5:5).

We exercised our will then (Dt. 30:19; Jos. 24:15), and we exercise our will now (Jn. 7:17; 2 Ti. 3:12).

blessings...

@bibleguy,
The reason Israel broke the covenant is because they loved darkness rather than light. They loved the idols and the world more than they loved God. They rejected Jesus Christ because of their own traditional lust and worldly love of self. Priests were sinning because of their own lust.

No, they did not love God, they loved the world and they didn’t believe Jesus because they were blinded through their lust of the world. Why were they blinded? because they loved evil and broke the Covenant of God.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

What a man exercises is what they become. Israel didn't exercise Righteousness, but sin. All Israel was not wrong, but because the covenant was with Israel as a whole, all Israel suffered.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

The law is no respect of person. The law fit the crime.

The family members that died because of the parents’ sins were cursed and died also. This was the Mosaic Law. What did the families that died do wrong? Jonathan and David were partners, I believe David and Jonathan had fellowship and were close. Why did Jonathan die?

regibassman57 said:

@bibleguy,
The reason Israel broke the covenant is because they loved darkness rather than light. They loved the idols and the world more than they loved God. They rejected Jesus Christ because of their own traditional lust and worldly love of self. Priests were sinning because of their own lust.

No, they did not love God, they loved the world and they didn’t believe Jesus because they were blinded through their lust of the world. Why were they blinded? because they loved evil and broke the Covenant of God.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

What a man exercises is what they become. Israel didn't exercise Righteousness, but sin. All Israel was not wrong, but because the covenant was with Israel as a whole, all Israel suffered.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

The law is no respect of person. The law fit the crime.

The family members that died because of the parents’ sins were cursed and died also. This was the Mosaic Law. What did the families that died do wrong? Jonathan and David were partners, I believe David and Jonathan had fellowship and were close. Why did Jonathan die?

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Hi again!

You wrote: "The family members that died because of the parents’ sins were cursed and died also. This was the Mosaic Law. What did the families that died do wrong? "

My response: What families are you referencing?

blessings...

@bibleguy,
This was the Mosaic Law:
After Israel took Jericho and Achan stoled an accursed thing (garment and other things). (Jos.7) Israel as a whole suffered in war. Many other stories.

Scripture teaches us,
Jer 31:28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
Jer 31:29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
Jer 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eats the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

This was the Mosaic Law.

@bibleguy,
Lest you say something about Jonathan, I know Saul and Janathan died in war, but they lost the war because of Saul disobedience.

regibassman57 said:

@bibleguy,
This was the Mosaic Law:
After Israel took Jericho and Achan stoled an accursed thing (garment and other things). (Jos.7) Israel as a whole suffered in war. Many other stories.

Scripture teaches us,
Jer 31:28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
Jer 31:29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
Jer 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eats the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

This was the Mosaic Law.

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No! Even in ancient Israel, the son does not bear the iniquity of the father (Eze. 18:20).

And, of COURSE nations suffer (as a whole) when particular individuals sin.

That's still true today!

No difference.

Moreoever, Jer. 31:31-33 places the SAME TORAH directly into the New Covenant.

Thus, it makes no sense for you to pretend that Jer. 31:28-30 contradicts that same Torah!

You gotta give us a CONSISTENT interpretation, my friend.

blessings....

@bibleguy,
I didn't interpret Jer. 31:28, 29. I looked up the thoughts of the commentary of "Gill, Henry, Barnes and Clarke.
These verses say the children of the parents were punish and died because of the sins of the parents. I know it's clear.

This is another choice New Covennat believer have. And God is not destroying or punishing families because one person's sin as Achan's. And as far as nations suffering God is not doing it; man is destroying man. The reason Israel lost the battle after fighting and retreating several time is because of Achan's sin. God Himself punished Israel as a whole becaue of one man's actions. After Achan and his family were killed, Israel was told to go and take the victory because sin was no longer in their camp.