Question needs A Christian Answer

[Uncle Steve]

I didn't say donate it! I said that you would give it to GOD meaning that GOD would show you how to run the house, even if it mean that your husband would have to move in it if he didn't want to change his evik ways. Or you could live there, & you would be free to worship without persecution.ect...

 

[Maureen]

Thank you Faith4Bride
I cannot take much more of this 'doormat' talk.

Jesus was no doormat, even going to the cross, how couragous was that, it would have been easier for him to call 10,000 angels and be freed.

Now Jesus in us does not make us doormats sister.
We are strong, as He is strong,
we are couragous as He is couragous.

I do thank you for your words of uplifting, I sure need all the comforting words I can muster up from any which way.
My Lord has many of these words, that is how I survive the pit falls of life.

When my husband has an opinion, sometimes it would differ from mine, obviously because I walk with Jesus, he doesn't, we would discuss it, and he would normally have his way, I am not rebellious, I could not be a child of God and be so.

Stuff like the 'telephone' lies, no I totally refused to tell lies, and he would only expect that of me, he knows I honour Jesus, if I didn't he's the first to say 'and you call yourself a Christian' he has done, the odd time I have failled, but repented.

so I pray this is understandable to you sister, I can't be battling in this it was only a simple question I began this thread with, nothing to do with husbands vs wives.

 

[Maureen]

I didn't say donate it! I said that you would give it to GOD meaning that GOD would show you how to run the house, even if it mean that your husband would have to move in it if he didn't want to change his evik ways. Or you could live there, & you would be free to worship without persecution.ect...

Oh steve sorry
don't go there, I've been there before, hubby did put me in it awhile back, not long after Uncle died in fact, he said he couldn't live with me being a Christian, that he'd have a better life without me and told me to move into it, this was all written down and given to me after he'd been out and had much alcohol.

I stayed there for a week, and my wee dog of 14yrs 4months took very ill, to which I rang him, and he took us to the vet she had to be put down, I broke my heart and I still hurt for her, I have tears even as I write this.
He told me to come back home, and all has been well since it.

My son now lives there he has put much into in to make it his home, my prayer is that he will get to keep it for himself, he escaped from a 2nd wife and had only been re married over a year, she really is demon possesed, I tried with her myself holding out the hand of friendship, but she belongs to the cult J.W. there was no way of reaching her, you've no idea how I did try.
she admitted to my own daughter once she was a demon while they were drinking, my daughter doesn't drink they were having drinks in son's house.

I only want the house for him to keep, don't care if I never see a penny for it, and Jesus knows all about it.
His will be done.

 

[Uncle Steve]

AMEN, sister. Just keep up the prayers. I see this law suit might be the anwser. Don't try to understand GOD, just know that HE's there & HIS angels are protecting you.He loves you & knows your every need .

 

[Maureen]

This one is in His hands, Lord and Master.

I will leave the desision with my husband, in my heart I don't want to sue this solicitor, but he did make the error, that is all I can find to say regards him.

 

[Janette]

Victor...

Ok...

To look at this through Christian eyes, we need to step away from the legal matters and deal with the family and relational matters. We must also look at the original intentions of your uncle.

You say your uncle wanted you to inherit his house.
We will assume that is true.

As far as we know, Victor didn't care whether or not you got the house, but we assume he was doing his job as solicitor in good faith and that he made an *honest* mistake in using your husband as Witness on the will.

We also know that your other relatives want some part of the house.

We cannot be sure of God's opinion on this matter but we can be certain that this *will* turn out as God intends for it to turn out.

----

Keeping all of that in mind, how does suing *Victor* help you get the house?

If you take Victor to court, you may in fact win a settlement since his professional error has probably cost you a good bit of money. But what does that accomplish?

It will ruin Victor as a solicitor.
It will make Victor your enemy - or at least severely strain things.
It will *not* put you in any better standing towards getting the house.
It probably won't get a settlement value equal to the worth of the house.
It certainly won't eliminate the need to fight over this estate in court.

....

So other than a desire to "get back" at Victor for making such a costly mistake, I can find no reason to take him to court. If I were in your place, I would not sue him.

---------------------

And that brings us to the rest of the family:

I don't know how it works in your country, but here in the USA, if someone dies without a will, or with a contested will, then everyone who wants a piece of the inheritance must prove to a judge why they should get a cut of the estate.

As such, I would keep things with Victor very jovial, because he is probably your single best witness regarding your uncle's condition and intention before his death.

Victor may be able to testify that your uncle was of "sound mind and body" when he wrote the will, and he may be able to testify that your uncle did willingly intend to change his will to give the house to you. He may even be able to garner sympathy from a judge by asking that you not be held responsbile for his professional error regarding the signatures.

But if you take Victor to court for his mistake instead of showing him mercy, how willing will he be to testify for you when you need him?

Let that mistake go and do not sue Victor.

But if I were in your place (and I was in a similar place a decade ago) and my family wanted to hover like vultures over the estate of my lost loved one whom they could never bother to even visit, then by all means, I'd defend it from them in court.

We cannot know the purposes of God. If you are meant to have that house, it will come to you before this is over. If you are not, then it will go where it is needed and you will *still* be provided for and inspired to prosper in every way.

But as wise as any of us might be to offer you advice from afar, the best thing for you to do is fast and pray and seek the Lord's wishes in this.

God bless you,
Janette

 

[pebosworth]

i have given a lot of scriptures above, and that is what we walk by. we must remember that God can handle all situations and can deliver us out of everything and shift circumstances for our good, we are to submit in faith and fear of God.

please give scripture about husbands and wives to back up your postion because in that we learn truth.it is easy to say things but they must have support in the word of God.

as far as doormats we absolutly in every single situation always to be doormats- ALWAYS. We are to be stepped on, and hated, and persecuted and crucified and we are to take up that cross willingly every single day. We are to put our flesh down, and pick up a cross everyday in every single solitary situation. If we are hit we are to turn the other cheek, we are to bless those who curse us, we are to do good to those who spitefully use us, we are to forgive always and love always. If someone steals our cloak we offer also our coat, we are to put the old man under always. We are not to defend our flesh or ourselves, we are not to resist the evil man. We are to be doormats until nothing of us is left and all that remains is Jesus CHrist in Us.

We are never given the right to an opinion ever in the word of God, we are to conform our mind to the mind of CHrist and stand in faith for His will to be done. We are not to force what we beleive is His will to be done, but we are to pray and stand in faith for it to be done. We are never ever given any authority to " allow" or " disallow" our husbands to do anything.

The gospel is that we died and CHrist lives in us, we take up our cross and put the old man under so CHrist can be manifest in our mortal flesh. We walk by faith and not physical force and we partake of His promises by faith so we can partake of the divine nature.

If our husband gives us a say then we obey him in that, if he does not give us a say we have none but always our say should be Gods say in quietness and meekness in proper postion.

We are never called to be anything more than a doormat to this world, and in the kingdom of God we are kings and priests will all dominion and autority which we use and wield by prayer and faith.

Please can you tell me where in Scripture it says that we are allowed to sin if our husbands tell us to sin. And where it says we should allow our husbands to sin? Also please show me where it says that we should obey our husbands above God's word?

 

[pebosworth]

Faith4Bride, here are some scriptures that tells me that we should not sin, no matter what and that we should always put God first. (I'm sure that includes even our husbands or God would have said otherwise):

1 Corinthians 10:31 "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God."
(Is sinning glorifying God? Sorry but not even our husbands can make us sin.)

1 John 2:6 "Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did."
(Jesus never sinned, he had to honour his mother and father - which is one of the 10 Commandments - but he still didn't sin doing it and I bet you that not even his parents could have made him sin!)

1 Peter 1:15 "But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do."
(Once again, being Holy is what we should be, not obeying the ways of the unsaved - I don't see any exceptions for wives.)

Colossians 2:20-22 "Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: ' Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!'? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings."
(We should not submit to the principles of this world! Therefore if our husbands asks us to go against God's will, then why should we? We would only be disobeying God!)

Paul said in Galatians 4:12 "I plead with you, brothers, become like me, for I became like you."
(Just like we are suppose to be like Jesus, so we are suppose to imitate Paul. Did either of them put up with sin? They rebuked those that sinned. They stood up for what was right. They opposed the proud!)

Galatians 6:1 "Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted."
(We should not tolerate sin, let alone sin).

James 4:4 "Anyone who chooses to become a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God."
(If our husbands are unsaved and they want us to sin and we obey, then we are an enemy of God.)

James 4:7,8 "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double minded."
(Here it tells us to submit ourselves to God, so who should we submit to first?)

Luke 17:3 "If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him."
(Once again, not only should we NOT sin, but we should not tolerate sin.)

Proverbs 21:3 "To do what is right and just is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice."
(Being a doormat or submitting to our husbands is not as important as doing what is right.)

Proverbs 6:16-19 "There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up dissension in the community."
(God hates sin, there is no excuse to sin, even if our husbands tell us to)

Romans 12:2 "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."
(Aren't our unsaved husbands still of this world? We should be renewed, not be of this world).

Romans 6:6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
(Once again, we should not sin. I don't see any exceptions here for wives with unsaved husbands or anyone for that matter).

You see, what you are saying doesn't make sense to me. Yes God asks us to submit to our husbands, but when we look at other scriptures we will see that this comes second to God, and second to sinning and doing what is right. No one can tell us what to do with our lives. We are accountable for our lives and what we do with it, no one else. So on Judgment day we cannot blame anyone else but ourselves. We are responsible for our own actions. I'm sorry, but no one, not even my husband (saved or not) can tell me to sin against God.

How can we obey man and God? How can we say we love God when we choose our husbands over Him? How can we love God if we continue to sin?

God says we mustn't take revenge but he doesn't say we should allow sin. God hates sin and so should we.

Most important of all: Matthew 12:30 "He who is not with me is against me."

I choose to be with God, not against God. If my husband is against God I will not follow his ways.

Hate evil, hate sin and do not be a part of it!

Proverbs 7:13 "To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behaviour and perverse speech."

1 John 3:6 "No one who lives in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him."

Romans 1:32 "Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."

Yes, we must submit to our husbands, but not if it causes us to sin or go against God's word. I still remain firm in the fact, that God must come first! Even above our husbands.

God gave us a mouth, He gave us a mind and most importantly of all He gave us that are saved the Holy Spirit's guidance. We should stand up for what is right and be examples to others by doing what is right. God never said we can't give our opinions or be a part of the decision making in our families and marriages. Jesus spoke up, why shouldn't we?

I think your understanding of submission is a bit wrong. God never told us to be submissive in a way that will make us sin, disobey God, be abused, be stupid, not speak or do anything that is obviously wrong or unwise.

 

[pebosworth]

Oh one more thing...

Being a doormat and being persecuted are two totally different things. Firstly being a doormat means people can walk all over us and tell us what to do. Persecution means that we are mocked, insulted, etc. for Christ's sake not any other reason. So, in order to be persecuted we need to stand up for Christ and what we believe, if not then we are just being doormats!

 

[Maureen]

Oh Hallelujah
I knew the Holy Spirit had me say the right things, I wasn't being argumentive, not at all, just taking my stand for what is right in God's eyes.
I will not grieve the Holy Spirit that is an unforgivable sin.

Thank you all.
To quote Janette'
I don't know how it works in your country, but here in the USA, if someone dies without a will, or with a contested will, then everyone who wants a piece of the inheritance must prove to a judge why they should get a cut of the estate.

As such, I would keep things with Victor very jovial, because he is probably your single best witness regarding your uncle's condition and intention before his death.

Victor may be able to testify that your uncle was of "sound mind and body" when he wrote the will, and he may be able to testify that your uncle did willingly intend to change his will to give the house to you. He may even be able to garner sympathy from a judge by asking that you not be held responsbile for his professional error regarding the signatures.

But if you take Victor to court for his mistake instead of showing him mercy, how willing will he be to testify for you when you need him?

If I was going on what Faith4Bride is pushing, I'd HAVE to sue Victor, as it's what my husband wants, I don't want to, I think it's wrong, and I've said in my head all the things you listed, but mostly, what would it gain me? Victor's money, that's what it would gain, I don't want that man's money, he made a genuine mistake so am I going to now tramp upon his head, we all can make a mistake, it's not done on purpose.

The best thing is, this whole matter is directed at ME and not my husband, so I have the last say with the Lord Jesus, as to what decision is to be made, husband will be very angry at me for not sueing Victor, I know he will he has already told me not to be so stupid as I did mention I didn't want to do it.

I agree with you Janette, fully, thank you for all you've written, I have printed it out, in the hope that it will soften my husband's heart in this matter, I know the Lord Jesus will turn it to whatever He wants it to be for my best interest, He see's the bigger picture.

Fasting and Praying, think perhaps it is called for, I do need to seek His face, I know we need to always be doing so, but you know when things are heavily laid upon you, He is the only answer, and has the only answer to them.

Thank you again, and also to you Pebosworth,
much scripture there in dealing with sin, and the way we must honour Jesus, He must be lifted up in all our ways, before our unsaved husband too, I know it is right, how else would we walk right, if we walked with the unsaved and did as they do, as you said the Lord Jesus spoke out, when people were wrong, and actions were wrong against God, differant senario when your husband is saved, as he too knows the ways of Jesus, my 'conversation' so far has given my husband food for thought, and no arguements pursued.

Thank you all for rallying round, and giving me help, I know it is inspired by our dear Lord Himself, I thank you.

 

[Faith4Bride]

pebo- i have given scritpures that show by command and by example to us of everything i have said. while you have given nothing that applies to husbands and wives or authorities and heads that God gave us.

it is amazing to me not that you refuse to obey, but that you assume that you have control over your husband to rule his life and stop him from sinning. Please show me a scripture that says that YOU can and should stop your husband from sinning. Or that you should rule over him.

now in all the scriptures you gave, you forget one thing

obeying your husbands in everything- in all things- even if they obey not the word, is a command of GOD given to women so when you do not do this you are not obeying GOD not men and that is not holy and is sin.

there isnt alot of room left for honest agruement when a command says in all things, always, in everything as unto the Lord.

As far as opinions go, i do not have a problem with wives having opinions, i have opinions, however if my husband did not give me place and right to say or do those opinions then we have no right to them because we are in subjection under them not the other way around.


As far as being a doormat, we certianly are to be, willingly.

we are told to bless those that curse you do good to those who spitefully use you.

if someone hits you on the cheek turn the other to him also

if someone asks you to walk a mile, walk two

if someone steals your cloak give him also your coat.

resist not the evil man

return not evil for evil

love your enemies as yourself

none of these are about perseuction but a godly life.

none of them give any place to ourselves but put down ourselves and put love and faith and gentleness and meekness and patience first.

as far as everything else, i have scripture that commands us to obey our husbands in ALL things.

I have scritpural examples of this that had to do with a sin, and put someone in danger of a further sin but how the fruit was Gods deliverance.

you do not need listen to the word of God if you do not want to but all you have given me is your opinions and what is right to *you*.

you seem to want to talk about being holy, until it comes to obeying commandments that tell you to obey in all things and submit to the head that God gave you.

there is one more thing we should all keep in mind

the word of God also tells us to submit to our husbands * as unto the Lord*

so when we rise up against them, speak against them, disobey them, think we can correct and lead them, we are doing that to the Lord

 

[Maureen]

'if they obey not the word' to quote
but it goes on....'they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;'

do you see the word 'Conversation' written?
if we don't speak up for Jesus, we then sin ourselves, our husband is not responsible for our actions, we are, and will judged accordingly.

I don't read those scriptures as being a 'Doormat' as you see it, I see them as being very courageous as was Jesus Himself.

There's no need to keep going over these same areas over and over, you obviously see it differantly from us and Jesus, for that matter, do you really believe He would have us follow sin and satan who is the master of it? Really?

The Bible is for God's people, we cannot understand it without the leading of the Holy Spirit, unbelievers do not have the presence of His Holy Spirit, they are lead by satan, therefore the Bible is speaking to God's people,


1 Corinthians 7:14
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.

Paul was writing to a particular people here, who thought because they had become Christian that their spouse would make them unholy again, it's not that we can 'sanctifiy them ourselves we cannot' it was to let them know their unbelief would not harm them who believe.

It is directed to the believer again.
As it all is.

You seem to have your head buried in the sand, Faith4Bride, and won't come up.
I will carry on as I have been lead by the Holy Spirit, to stand for Jesus, I will not sin, because of my husband or anyone elses leading, I stand for Jesus, He is first, and He knows it.

 

[pebosworth]

I don't want to argue about this, it's obvious you are not understanding what we are saying. I never said we mustn't submit to our husbands, I never said we must disobey them or disrespect them. I will not sin because someone tells me to sin and thats final. Not my husband and certainly not you because I have to stand before God one day and I cannot put the blame on anyone else because I am responsible for my own actions.

I disagree with you about being a doormat. It is not a doormat we are meant to be. We are told to not take revenge and we are warned we will be persecuted, why? How can we be persecuted if we don't stand up for Christ. That doesn't make sense. Persecution comes because we make a stand. Turning the other cheek etc. means to not take revenge, it doesn't mean be a doormat. But like I said I'm not going to argue about this anymore.

I know the meaning of submitting to my husband, and if I don't I know God will convict me not you. I think you have gone too far forcing your opinion on others. Who said you are right? I will first seek the counsel of the Holy Spirit before anyone else. If I am wrong, then I will come back and admit it, but until then please forgive me for not agreeing with you.

it is amazing to me not that you refuse to obey, but that you assume that you have control over your husband to rule his life and stop him from sinning. Please show me a scripture that says that YOU can and should stop your husband from sinning. Or that you should rule over him.

That is uncalled for. That is judgmental. No where did I say I refuse to obey, nowhere did I say that I have control over my husband. In fact, my husband agrees with every word I have written here 100% because I passed it by him first! I merely said, that I will not sin because my husband asks me to and that I stand firm in!

 

[pebosworth]

while you have given nothing that applies to husbands and wives or authorities and heads that God gave us.

By the way, the scriptures I gave doesn't mention husbands or wives deliberately! The whole point is that God doesn't exclude husbands and wives when it comes to the rest of the Bible. There are a few verses, literally a few, that speak of marriage and submission, but the rest of the Bible tells us a whole lot more. We can't forget about the rest of the Bible. Everything should work in conjunction with each other. So obviously when God says "do not sin" then we should not sin, even if we are to "submit to our husbands". You can't pick which one suits you best to obey over the other. They all work together. Sin is sin. God hates sin. Those verses I quoted showed how we should live so even as wives submitting to husbands we should still not sin, we should still glorify God. It's obvious then that our submission is limited, because God comes first and we should obey God above anyone else!

 

[Faith4Bride]

'if they obey not the word' to quote
but it goes on....'they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;'

do you see the word 'Conversation' written?
if we don't speak up for Jesus, we then sin ourselves, our husband is not responsible for our actions, we are, and will judged accordingly.

I don't read those scriptures as being a 'Doormat' as you see it, I see them as being very courageous as was Jesus Himself.

There's no need to keep going over these same areas over and over, you obviously see it differantly from us and Jesus, for that matter, do you really believe He would have us follow sin and satan who is the master of it? Really?

The Bible is for God's people, we cannot understand it without the leading of the Holy Spirit, unbelievers do not have the presence of His Holy Spirit, they are lead by satan, therefore the Bible is speaking to God's people,


1 Corinthians 7:14
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.

Paul was writing to a particular people here, who thought because they had become Christian that their spouse would make them unholy again, it's not that we can 'sanctifiy them ourselves we cannot' it was to let them know their unbelief would not harm them who believe.

It is directed to the believer again.
As it all is.

You seem to have your head buried in the sand, Faith4Bride, and won't come up.
I will carry on as I have been lead by the Holy Spirit, to stand for Jesus, I will not sin, because of my husband or anyone elses leading, I stand for Jesus, He is first, and He knows it.

*CONVERSATION* is

the word * conversation* here is
anastrophē (Strong's G391
1) manner of life, conduct, behaviour, deportment

it is not words or what we say to them. in fact the word here for WORD in " without the word" means all words of any kind so we see by the actual meanings of these words that when it says if they obey not the word, it does not only mean the written word of God, but any word spoken to them or anyword whatsoever that includes anything we could say but conversation here has nothing to do with speech. here is the word for

*WORD*
logos (Strong's G3056
1) of speech

a) a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea

b) what someone has said

1) a word

2) the sayings of God

3) decree, mandate or order

4) of the moral precepts given by God

5) Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets

6) what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim

c) discourse

1) the act of speaking, speech

2) the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking

3) a kind or style of speaking

4) a continuous speaking discourse - instruction

d) doctrine, teaching

e) anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative

f) matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law

g) the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed

2) its use as respect to the MIND alone

a) reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating

b) account, i.e. regard, consideration

c) account, i.e. reckoning, score

d) account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment

e) relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation

1) reason would

f) reason, cause, ground

3) In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.

.

i understand that you do not see what i am saying maureen and that is ok, i have given an abundance of scritpure to back up what i am saying here and it is now for the Lord to begin to put it all in line with you, and bring you examples, and open your heart to the word of God in this area, and show you how this could be and lead you by the Holy Spirit but respectfuly my head is stuck in the word of God.

i pray peace and faith for you and your husband, i am joyous for he and you and all the blessings God has for you both.

 

[sevenworth]

I am Pebo's husband. I am a man of God, I seek after Him in every thought of my mind, and every move of my body.

I have read this entire thread top to bottom, and I'm truly amazed at some of the things that have been said. That some women have decided to be submissive to the point where it leads them into sin is inconceivable, to put it mildly.

Its evident that somewhere along the way the plot has been lost.

That some of you would choose to put a simple man before the Most High God, the Alpha and Omega, the Great I AM, is beyond my comprehension.

I would rebuke my wife if she agreed with any wickedness that I in my sin would bring into being. This I promise, because I love her and deeply care for her salvation.

Faith4Bride, there is really only one scripture that you should require to put this whole debate to rest: "You shall have no other gods before Me." Exodus 20v3 NIV. What you are doing is blatantly disobeying this first commandment. You make a god of your husband when you place him higher on your agenda than the Lord of Lords.

If one scripture seems to contradict another, its a clear case that either or both scripture(s) has/have been misinterpreted. I call you, sister, to truthfully seek the Holy Spirit in this. The basis for the Christian faith is the law, the very first of these laws calling on our unfailing devotion to ONE God, bar everything.

The same God that set up the marriage bond between a man and a woman WOULD NOT, in any sense, condone that He should take second place in the lives and hearts of EITHER party. Thinking that this is right is blatantly in contradiction of God's perfect law. And it is perfect.

This topic also serves to scare people from the faith. On many occasions I have seen how people, particularly women in relationships, shy away from faith-situations that call for them to be doormats to thoughtless, faithless men. In persuing this conversation, you are facilitating and fostering a false representation of how God intended for relationships to exist.

I will call now that my wife takes no further part in an excersise that aims to mislead the general populace. It is UP TO HER to make a decision on how to respond to my call, and I know she will consult HER One and Only God before making a decision. I would expect nothing less from a God-fearing wife like her.

 

[Faith4Bride]

I don't want to argue about this, it's obvious you are not understanding what we are saying. I never said we mustn't submit to our husbands, I never said we must disobey them or disrespect them. I will not sin because someone tells me to sin and thats final. Not my husband and certainly not you because I have to stand before God one day and I cannot put the blame on anyone else because I am responsible for my own actions.

I disagree with you about being a doormat. It is not a doormat we are meant to be. We are told to not take revenge and we are warned we will be persecuted, why? How can we be persecuted if we don't stand up for Christ. That doesn't make sense. Persecution comes because we make a stand. Turning the other cheek etc. means to not take revenge, it doesn't mean be a doormat. But like I said I'm not going to argue about this anymore.

I know the meaning of submitting to my husband, and if I don't I know God will convict me not you. I think you have gone too far forcing your opinion on others. Who said you are right? I will first seek the counsel of the Holy Spirit before anyone else. If I am wrong, then I will come back and admit it, but until then please forgive me for not agreeing with you.



That is uncalled for. That is judgmental. No where did I say I refuse to obey, nowhere did I say that I have control over my husband. In fact, my husband agrees with every word I have written here 100% because I passed it by him first! I merely said, that I will not sin because my husband asks me to and that I stand firm in!

"I know the meaning of submitting to my husband, and if I don't I know God will convict me not you"

i absolutly completely agree! it is God who will teach us and lead us all, that is why i have not been seeking to convict any but to prove the truth by the word of God and let God do the rest. The point I am trying to make is that i have given scriptures but none of those scriptures have been addressed what so ever and they are what should be being looked at, not what you or i or anyone thinks seems right unto them because i am postive we both have been right when we werent sure we were, and we have been wrong when we were sure we were right but God is faithful to sort it out and we should refer always to the word of God.

"That is uncalled for. That is judgmental. No where did I say I refuse to obey, nowhere did I say that I have control over my husband"

you said before "And where it says we should allow our husbands to sin? "

 

[Faith4Bride]

sorry you said
"And where it says we should allow our husbands to sin? "

this is what i was referring to that you believe my comment was judgemental.- i do not judge because you do not agree with me on how to submit to husbands, my comments were about you thinking that you have anyplace at all to ALLOW or DISALLOW your husband to sin.- what your husband does in sin is between him and the Lord and if he is gonna sin you have no right to allow or stop him, that is an act of authority that we do not have.( this is outside of the conversation about what obeying them in a sin) that was my problem and if you find it judgemental i apologize i am only trying to tell the truth of the sin in that.

i will say this, we disagree on the doormat stuff which is fine, i would only like to add that i believe that being a " doormat" is the couragous thing to do, that is what steps out and that is what gets persecuted.

 

[Maureen]

lead you by the Holy Spirit but respectfuly my head is stuck in the word of God.

Respectfully also, I have been walking in the Holy Spirit from the very day I was saved, I praise and thank Jesus for Him.

Peace to you also sister.

Sevenworth,
spoken like a true Male Christian Soldier.

 

[Faith4Bride]

Respectfully also, I have been walking in the Holy Spirit from the very day I was saved, I praise and thank Jesus for Him.

Peace to you also sister.

Sevenworth,
spoken like a true Male Christian Soldier.

i can tell you have sister that is why i am thankful we can have these discussions and that we both can be sure in confidence that God will lead us both in truth and we can have fellowship in these ways even when we disagree.