State of the Dead

[gotime]

Death: Just might be one of the most misunderstood subjects today. To many it is shrouded in mystery and evokes dreaded feelings of fear, uncertainty, and even hopelessness. Others believe that their deceased loved ones are not dead at all, but instead live with them or in other realms! Still others confused about the relationship between the body, spirit, and soul. But does it really matter what you believe? Yes ... absolutely! Because what you believe about the dead will have a profound impact on what happens to you in the end-times. There’s no room for guessing, so this study guide will give you exactly what God says on this subject. Get ready for a real eye-opener!

Q1. How did we get here in the first place?
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Answer: God made us from dust in the beginning.

Q2. What happens when a person dies?
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Answer: The body turns to dust again, and the spirit goes back to God, who gave it. The spirit of every person who dies—whether righteous or wicked—returns to God at death. E.g. if I take some nails and wood and make them into a box then I have a box. But if I take the nails out again then I have what I originally had just wood and nails.
Q3. What is the “spirit” that returns to God at death?
Jam 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Job 27:3 All the while my breath [is] in me, and the spirit of God [is] in my nostrils;

Answer: The spirit that returns to God at death is the breath of life. Nowhere in God’s entire book does the “spirit” have any life, wisdom, or feeling after a person dies. It is the “breath of life” and nothing more.
Q4. What is a “soul”?
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Answer: A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. God’s Word teaches that we are soul’s.
Q5. Do souls die?
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead [man]: and every living soul died in the sea.

Answer: According to God’s Word, souls do die! We are souls, and souls die. Man is mortal (Job 4:17). Only God is immortal (1 Timothy 6:15, 16). The concept of an undying, immortal soul foes against the Bible, which teaches that souls are subject to death.

Q6. Do good people go to heaven when they die?

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Act 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Job 17:13 If I wait, the grave [is] mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness.

Answer: No, people do not go either to heaven or hell at death. They go to their graves to await the resurrection day. Note that King David will be saved in God’s kingdom, However, he is in his grave now, where he awaits the resurrection.

Q7. How much does one know or comprehend after death?

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.
Ecc 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do [it] with thy might; for [there is] no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
Psa 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Answer: God says that the dead know absolutely nothing!

Q8. But can’t the dead communicate with the living, and aren’t they aware of what the living are doing?

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens [be] no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Job 14:21 His sons come to honour, and he knoweth [it] not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth [it] not of them.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.

Answer: No, the dead cannot contact the living, nor do they know what the living are doing. They are dead. Their thoughts have perished (Psalm 146:4).

Q9. Jesus called the unconscious state of the dead “sleep” in John 11:11-14. How long will they sleep?

Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens [be] no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Answer: The dead will sleep until the great day of the Lord at the end of the world. In death humans are totally unconscious with no activity or knowledge of any kind.

 

[gotime]

state of the dead cont.

Q10. What happens to the righteous dead at the second coming of Christ?

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

Answer: They will be rewarded. They will be raised, given immortal bodies, and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. There would be no purpose in a resurrection if people were taken to heaven at death.

Q11. What was the devil’s first lie on earth?

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,

Answer: Satan told Eve that sin would not bring death. “Ye shall not surely die,” he said.

Q12. Why did the devil lie to Eve about death? Could this subject be more important than many think?

Answer: It is one of the cornerstones of the devil’s king-dom. He has worked powerful miracles down through the ages through people who claim to receive their power from the spirits of the dead. (Examples: Magicians of Egypt—Exodus 7:11; Women of Endor—1 Samuel 28:3-25; Sorcerers—Daniel 2:2; A certain damsel—Acts 16:16-18.)

A solemn Warning
In the end-time Satan will again use sorcery—as he did in Daniel’s day—to deceive the world (Revelation 18:23). Sorcery is a supernatural agency that claims to receive its power and wisdom from the spirits of the dead.

Posing as Jesus’ Disciples
Posing as godly loved ones who have died, saintly clergymen who are now dead, Bible prophets, or even the apostles or disciples of Christ (2 Corinthians 11:13), Satan and his angels will deceive billions. Those who believe the dead are alive, in any form, will most assuredly be deceived.

Q13. Do devils really work miracles?

Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles,
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Answer: Yes, indeed! Devils work incredibly convincing miracles (Revelation 13:13, 14). Satan and his angels will appear as angels of light (2 Corinthians 11:14) and, even more shocking, as Christ Himself (Matthew 24:23, 24). The universal feeling will be that Christ and His angels are leading out in a fantastic worldwide revival. The entire emphasis will seem so spiritual and be so supernatural that only God’s elect will not be deceived.

Q14. Why will God’s people not be deceived?

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.

Answer: God’s people will know from their earnest study of His book that the dead are dead, not alive. Spirits of the dead do not exist. Therefore, God’s people will reject all miracle workers and teachers who claim to receive special “light” or work miracles by contacting the spirits of the dead. And God’s people will likewise reject as dangerous and false all teachings that claim the dead are alive in any form, anwhere.

Q15. Back in Moses’ day, what did God command should be done to people who taught that the dead were alive?

Lev 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood [shall be] upon them.

Answer: God insisted that wizards and others with “familiar spirits” (who claimed to be able to contact the dead) should be stoned to death. This shows how God regards the false teaching that the dead are alive.

Q16. Will the righteous people who are raised in the resurrection ever die again?

Luk 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Luk 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Answer: No! Death, sorrow, crying, and tragedy will never enter into God’s new kingdom.

Q17. Belief in reincarnation is expanding rapidly today. Is this teaching biblical?

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any

Answer: Almost half the people on earth believe in reincarnation—a teaching that the soul never dies but is instead continually reborn in a different kind of body with each succeeding generation. This teaching, however, is contrary to scripture.

The Bible says
After death a person: returns to dust (psalm 104:29), Knows nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5), possesses no mental powers (Psalm 146:4), has nothing to do with anything on earth (Ecclesiastes 9:6), does not live (2 Kings 20:1), waits in the grave (Job 17:13), and continues not (Job 14:1, 2).

Satan’s Invention
We learned in questions 11 and 12 that Satan invented the teaching that the dead are alive. Rein-carnation, channelling, communications with spirits, spirit worship, and the “undying soul” are all inventions of Satan, with one aim—to convince people that when you die you are not really dead. When people believe that the dead are alive, “spirits of devils, working miracles” (Revelation 16:14) and posing as spirits of the dead will be able to deceive and lead them astray virtually 100 percent of the time (Matthew 24:24).

 

[gotime]

state of the dead last

Some popular objections answered.

Q1. Didn’t the thief on the cross go to paradise with Christ the day He died?
Answer: No. In fact, on Sunday morning Jesus said to Mary, “I am not yet ascended to my Father.” John 20:17. This shows that Christ did not go to heaven at death. Also note that the punctuation of the Bible is not inspired, but added by men. The comma in Luke 23:43 should be placed after the words “today” rather that before, so the passage should read, “Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.” Or, “I’m telling you today—when it seems that I can save no one, when I myself am being crucified as a criminal—I give you the assurance today that you will be with me in paradise.” Christ’s kingdom is set up at His second coming (Matthew 25:31), and all the righteous of all ages will enter it at that time(1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) and not at death.

Q2. Doesn’t the Bible speak of the “undying,” “immortal” soul?
Answer: No, the undying, immortal soul is not mentioned in the Bible. The word “immortal” is found only once in the Bible, and it is in reference to God (1 Timothy 1:17).

Q3. At death the body returns to dust and the spirit (or breath) returns to God. But where does the soul go?
Answer: It goes nowhere. Instead, it simply ceases to exist. Two things must be combined to make a soul: body and breath. When the breath departs, the soul ceases to exist because it is a combination of two things. When you turn off a light, where does the light go? It doesn’t go anywhere. It just ceases to exist. Two things must combine to make a light: a bulb and electricity. Without the combination, a light is impossible. So with the soul; unless body and breath are combined, there can be no soul. There is no such thing as a disembodied soul.

Q4. Does the word “soul” ever mean anything other than a living being?
Answer: Yes, it may mean also (1) life itself, or (2) the mind, or intellect. No matter which meaning is intended, the soul is still a combination of two things (body and breath), and it ceases to exist at death.

Q5. Can you explain John 11:26, which says, “And whoso-ever liveth and believeth in me shall never die”?
Answer: This refers not to the first death, which all people die (Hebrews 9:27), but to the second death, which only the wicked die and from which there is not resurrection (Revelation 2:11; 21:8).

Q6. Matthew 10:28 says, “fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul.” Doesn’t this prove that the soul is undying?
Answer: No, it proves the opposite. The last half of the same verse proves that souls do die. It says, “but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” The word “soul” here means life and refers to eternal life, which is a gift (Romans 6:23) that will be given to the righteous at the last day (John 6:54). No one can take away the eternal life that God bestows. (see also Luke 12:4, 5).

Q7. Doesn’t 1 Peter 4:6 say the gospel was preached to dead people?
Answer: No, it says the gospel “was” preached to those who “are” dead. They are dead now, but the gospel “was” preached to them while they were yet living. Past and present tense.

Q8. What about the souls crying out from under the altar in Revelation 6:9, 10? Doesn’t this show that souls do not die?
Answer: No. This cry was figurative, as was the cry of Abel’s blood (Genesis 4:10). The word “soul” here means people (or living beings) who had been slain for their faith. Surely no one believes that souls who die literally lie under the alter, nor do people believe that the righteous beg God toe punish their enemies. Rather, the righteous beg for mercy for their enemies, as Christ did on the cross (Luke 23:34).

Q9. Doesn’t the Bible say Christ went and preached to lost souls in hell between His crucifixion and resurrection?
Answer: No, the Bible passage in question 1 is 1 Peter 3:18-20. The preaching was done “by the Spirit” (verse 18) in Noah’s day – to people who were then living (verses 19, 20). The “spirits in prison” refers to people whose lives were in bondage to Satan. (See Psalm 142:7; Isaiah 42:6,7; 61:1; Luke 4:18.)

Thouugh i am aware these are not all the objections they are the bigger ones used blessings to you all.

BY Amazing Facts

 

[rlowe]

Q6. Do good people go to heaven when they die?

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Act 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Job 17:13 If I wait, the grave [is] mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness.

Answer: No, people do not go either to heaven or hell at death. They go to their graves to await the resurrection day. Note that King David will be saved in God’s kingdom, However, he is in his grave now, where he awaits the resurrection.

Then how do you explain not only Elijah but Moses coming down from heaven to talk to Jesus in the sight of Peter, James, & John?
I know Elijah went straight up to heaven without dying, but I know Moses did die.
-

 

[rizen1]

I was wondering, is this article yours.

 

[gotime]

Then how do you explain not only Elijah but Moses coming down from heaven to talk to Jesus in the sight of Peter, James, & John?
I know Elijah went straight up to heaven without dying, but I know Moses did die.
-

This is a good thing you brought this up thanx. If you read the stories of the BIble and the things to come there is always a real life story somewhere to illistrate. Moses is a representation of those who in the end will die and be risen again at the resurrection while Elijah is an example of those who in the end will be still living when Jesus comes back to raise the dead and give the reward of eternal life.

The transfiguration is an example of this if you remember Jesus told His disciples Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

although they are dead now and Jesus has not yet established His kingdom but they did see it.

Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

here is the moment they saw the kingdom of God. we many when they think of the kingdom of God they think of a city or building but this was never so with God the kingdom is the People, without people there is no Kingdom. So here we see the kingdom which is made up of Jesus our GOd in His gloriouse form and those who are saved through death eg Moses and those who are saved from death Elijah.

It may also be noted that we are given a picture of the fight over humanity with Moses.

Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Satan will paint us in the worst light he can But we have a merciful Saviour who is able to save us amen.

We do know there are others in heaven as well eg Enoch and those who were raised with Jesus and went to tell of Him.

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Answere: yes there are people in heaven but this does not change the Biblical way of life though some have gone for various reasons some as examples of what to come some as a type of firstfruit with Jesus. We must remember that the Bible as seen in post says that the dead do not speak to us or have anything to do with us now and that predomonantly we all die and wait in the grave for the glorious resurrection when Jesus comes back. one must take in the whole Bible to get an accurate picture thnx for briging this up blessings

 

[gotime]

I was wondering, is this article yours.

I have done much study into this area but i must be honest this is not all my work. although I personally have come to this conclusion through much study I often can not express my way easily in written form. I was not gifted with great written skill so I have used othere peoples way of putting it so that its easier to understand. blessings

 

[rizen1]

It would be good to post their names to give them credit.

God bless

 

[gotime]

It would be good to post their names to give them credit.

God bless

Thanx I would have but I was under the impression that we are not allowed to advertise in any way that is why I Did not it is done by an organisation.

 

[rizen1]

You could put there names,
no links allowed unless permitted by Chad ( administrator ).

God bless you

 

[aksd]

Gotime, would like your views on Luke 16:19-31 - the Rich Man, Lazarus & Abraham. Weren't all three in their respective places able to talk and understand and remmember the days on earth and also the coming times?
How do you account for Jesus' promise to the thief on the cross in Luke 23:43 "Today you will be with me in paradise"?

 

[gotime]

Gotime, would like your views on Luke 16:19-31 - the Rich Man, Lazarus & Abraham. Weren't all three in their respective places able to talk and understand and remmember the days on earth and also the coming times?
How do you account for Jesus' promise to the thief on the cross in Luke 23:43 "Today you will be with me in paradise"?

Q1. Didn’t the thief on the cross go to paradise with Christ the day He died?
Answer: No. In fact, on Sunday morning Jesus said to Mary, “I am not yet ascended to my Father.” John 20:17. This shows that Christ did not go to heaven at death. Also note that the punctuation of the Bible is not inspired, but added by men. The comma in Luke 23:43 should be placed after the words “today” rather that before, so the passage should read, “Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.” Or, “I’m telling you today—when it seems that I can save no one, when I myself am being crucified as a criminal—I give you the assurance today that you will be with me in paradise.” Christ’s kingdom is set up at His second coming (Matthew 25:31), and all the righteous of all ages will enter it at that time(1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) and not at death.

It is clear here that the comma is in the wrong place first of all remember that Greek does not have this gramma so its is purely a guess second Jesus did not raise till sunday so how could the theif be in heaven with Him on frieday. Third HE had not gone, proved by what Jesus said to mary "I have not yet ascended to my Father".

it should read I tell you today, eg today I tell you.

As for Luke 16:19-31
One must remember that this is a parable and a parable does not need to be factual. a parable is designed to illestrate a point in words that the herers could understsand if they listened with an open heart.

This parable in fact is not a unique one of the time there was a saying exactly the same used by the pharasees of the time, however there was one difference they told it with the rich man going to heaven not Lazarus. Jesus was making the point that our life if sucsessful does not mean we are holy and just because someone is sick or poor does not mean they are bad. He was not talking about hell or heaven or the stae of the dead He was simply useing a parable of the time to direct the people to the truth of life and sin.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

"Jesus answered him (the criminal), 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'" (Lk 23:43)

The study notes for that verse in my Bible say that paradise is a state of bliss between death and resurrection. Apparently, Jesus' human spirit went to paradise immediately after his death. Yet, there are verses (2 Cor 5:8, 2 Cor 12:2 & 4, Heb 4:14, etc.) that indicate that paradise and heaven are one and the same place. Huge gray area here, in my opinion.

SLE

 

[gotime]

"Jesus answered him (the criminal), 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.'" (Lk 23:43)

The study notes for that verse in my Bible say that paradise is a state of bliss between death and resurrection. Apparently, Jesus' human spirit went to paradise immediately after his death. Yet, there are verses (2 Cor 5:8, 2 Cor 12:2 & 4, Heb 4:14, etc.) that indicate that paradise and heaven are one and the same place. Huge gray area here, in my opinion.

SLE

I know what you are saying here but there is a problem the idea you just mentioned is derived from Man's ideas. I would prefer to just take what the Bible actually says and when you do this there is in fact no grey area on this issue. The bible is clear what happens at death if you read my origional post therefor this Idea of a paradise being bliss between heaven and death made up by man with no scriptural backing is against what GOd says in His word.

There is no grey area if you take only the word of GOd and not man's additions or ideas based on no Bible evidence. Like you said there are verses that show they are one and the same heaven and paradise so im going to go with the word of GOd and not man. blessings

 

[aksd]

Gotime, thanks for your efforts to explain, but I am not convinced and beg to differ.
Accepting your contention about grammar and commas in Greek, isn't you interpretation as subjective as mine - in that you want to place the comma where it is convenient for you and I accept it where it is found in my Bible - translated, studied and used by various scholars down the ages. So who or what determines the right interpretation from the wrong?
Again, about the premises laid down by you for considering parables, if it were to be accepted that Jesus used 'non-factual' illustrations for teaching, it would also mean that He told a 'lie' even if it were to be in a very limited sense of the word.
Satan Tells lies, Jesus tells 'small lies' who decides the difference?
Secondly, does this then give us - His disciples, also the right to use 'limited lies' - where does that end? Who decides what is the limit of this?
So consider the implications of this line of reasoning and where it can lead.

 

[gotime]

Gotime, thanks for your efforts to explain, but I am not convinced and beg to differ.
Accepting your contention about grammar and commas in Greek, isn't you interpretation as subjective as mine - in that you want to place the comma where it is convenient for you and I accept it where it is found in my Bible - translated, studied and used by various scholars down the ages. So who or what determines the right interpretation from the wrong?
Again, about the premises laid down by you for considering parables, if it were to be accepted that Jesus used 'non-factual' illustrations for teaching, it would also mean that He told a 'lie' even if it were to be in a very limited sense of the word.
Satan Tells lies, Jesus tells 'small lies' who decides the difference?
Secondly, does this then give us - His disciples, also the right to use 'limited lies' - where does that end? Who decides what is the limit of this?
So consider the implications of this line of reasoning and where it can lead.

Im sorry I really don't see what your getting at Jesus did not tell a lie. It would have been clear to all who herd that He was using their own parable. remember it was a popular saying of the time so it would have been clear what Jesus was getting at if they wanted to know. it is false aplication to say that this would have been a lie when Jesus used what was common to them as a ground to teach a spiritual truth that they were yet to understand. Im sorry but your statment about it being a lie is false because a parable is in its basic form an illestrated lesson which can be anything that gets a lesson accros, wether based on fact or not. The only way it could be considered a lie is if a parable had to be factual and we know it dosent because of the nature of a parable and its purpose.

Let me illestrate: If you come up to me and say Jesus or GOd is not real so we can live and do what we want. then I reply a man who didnt believe in GOd lived life for himself and trampled on otheres and when he died he faound himself in a spiritual relm. when he was approached by another spirit who began to abuse him verbaly. when this man came to realise that this spirit was someone who he had done wrong to in the first life he realised that even though GOd does not exist it is better to do right to others even in the first life and he regreted it.

Now I know this is not really well thought out lol but will do for my point. The point is God does not exist is a lie, however my reply is not a lie I have simply used your own saying to make a point that we should be good to one another even if you don't believe in GOd. the reply is in now way a statment about GOd same as what Jesus said. its all in your understanding of what a parable is and what its for.

about the comma one must remember im basing this decission on a number of factors one of which is the clear Bible teaching that when we are dead there is nothing! we do not go anywhere. we are dead full stop! (read my "state of the dead post" in Bible studies). so when you take this clear Bible teaching into account then we clearly see that Jesus would have been lieing if he actually ment that frieday he would be in heaven/paradise. which is made more clear as i mentioned by the fact that Jesus Himself said to Mary on sunday two days after the promise that He had not been to heaven/paradise yet.
THis is not just my way of thinking its the only way that fits with the rest of the Bible teaching. Jesus laid in the grave from frie sundown till sunday, the theif on the cross will be in paradise but only when Jesus comes the second time with all of us together.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

read "state of the dead post " this will help you understand why I veiw this way.

 

[Word of Life]

Thank you Gotime. Good article with good scriptural teaching showing us what happens at death.

Also identifying the Firstfruit and the first resurrection is a vital and important key to opening up the Bible truths, which I would encourage others to seek and find for themselves and allow God to reveal His truths to you, through His Word.

People have a choice to follow man's doctrine or God's Word.

2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Laudite]

Q1. Didn’t the thief on the cross go to paradise with Christ the day He died?
Answer: No. In fact, on Sunday morning Jesus said to Mary, “I am not yet ascended to my Father.” John 20:17. This shows that Christ did not go to heaven at death. Also note that the punctuation of the Bible is not inspired, but added by men. The comma in Luke 23:43 should be placed after the words “today” rather that before, so the passage should read, “Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.” Or, “I’m telling you today—when it seems that I can save no one, when I myself am being crucified as a criminal—I give you the assurance today that you will be with me in paradise.” Christ’s kingdom is set up at His second coming (Matthew 25:31), and all the righteous of all ages will enter it at that time(1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) and not at death.

It is clear here that the comma is in the wrong place first of all remember that Greek does not have this gramma so its is purely a guess second Jesus did not raise till sunday so how could the theif be in heaven with Him on frieday. Third HE had not gone, proved by what Jesus said to mary "I have not yet ascended to my Father".

it should read I tell you today, eg today I tell you.

Ok, so dude, Greek is a declinate language. This doesn't mean let's slap punctuation where we feel like it and hope it works. What english conveys with punctuation and word order Greek (and many other indo-european languages) use word endings to convey agreement and grammatical usage. In fact, its significantly more determinate than word order and punctuation- there is no doubt in the greek, the today is contained within the indirect statement- and therefore cannot modify the main verb. Today isn't when he's saying, its when being in paradise takes place.
Second, you seem confused as to what the ascension is. Christ died, he went missing for 3 days, (he at least descended into hell and conquered satan) then he returned to earth for a while, after which he would ascend into heaven as was prophesied. When Jesus said I am not yet ascended he didn't mean nope, haven't been around heaven in the last few days- he meant that he was returned from the dead to demonstrate the victory over death and was fulfilling the prophecy.

 

[DeaconBob3]

The Heb. Sheol (which see) is the equivalent for Hades and is likewise the subterranean abode of all the dead until the judgment. It was divided into two departments, paradise or Abraham's bosom for the good, and Gehenna or hell for the bad.

In the NT, as will be seen above, the term Hades is of comparatively rare occurrence; in our Lord's own discourses it is found only three times, and on two of the occasions by way of contrast to the region of life and blessing. From a consideration of the various passages the following may be a just conclusion: "It seems as if in the progress of God's dispensations a separation had come to be made between elements that originally were mingled together, so that Hades was henceforth appropriated, both in the name and in the reality, to those who were reserved in darkness and misery to the great day; and other names, with other and brighter ideas, were employed to designate the intermediate resting place of the redeemed. These latter pass immediately upon death into the presence of their Lord (John 14:2-3; Phil 1:23).

Luke 16:19-31, which sets forth the account of the rich man and Lazarus (and which, strictly speaking, is not a parable), indicates a difference in Hades after the ascension of Christ. Before this far-reaching event it seems clear that Hades was in two compartments, the residence respectively of saved and unsaved spirits. "Paradise" or "Abraham's bosom," both common Jewish terms of the day, were adopted by Christ in Luke 16:22 and 23:43 to designate the condition of the righteous in the intermediate state. The blessed dead, being with Abraham, were conscious and "comforted" (16:25). The dying thief was on that very day to be with Christ in "Paradise." The unsaved were separated from the saved by a "great chasm fixed" (16:26). The rich man, who is evidently still in Hades, is a representative case and describes the unjudged condition in the intermediate state of the wicked. As to his spirit, he was alive, fully conscious, in exercise of his mental faculties, and also tormented. It is thus apparent that insofar as the unsaved dead are concerned, no change in their abode or state is revealed in connection with the ascension of Christ. At the sinners' judgment of the great white throne, Hades will surrender the wicked. They will be judged and cast into the lake of fire (Rev 20:13-14; see Lake of Fire ). However, with regard to the state of the righteous and the present location of paradise, Christ's ascension has evidently worked a drastic change. The apostle Paul was "caught up to the third heaven . . . into Paradise" (2 Cor 12:1-4). Paradise, therefore, now denotes the immediate presence of God. When Christ "ascended on high" He "led captive a host of captives" (Eph 4:8-10). Since it is immediately added that He "descended into the lower parts of the earth," evidently the paradise division of hades, He set free the saved spirit denizens of the underworld. Thus during the present church age, the redeemed who die are "absent from the body . . . at home with the Lord." The wicked, by contrast, are in hades. Both are awaiting resurrection: one the resurrection to life and the other the resurrection to condemnation. See Intermediate State; Gehenna; Lake of Fire .
M.F.U.

BIBLIOGRAPHY: A. T. Pierson, The Inevitable Alternative (n.d.); W. E. Clark, The Gates of Hades (1927); J. J. Muller, When Christ Comes Again (1956), pp. 65-76; T. F. Glasson, Greek Influence on Jewish Eschatology (1961); J. H. Gerstner, Jonathan Edwards on Heaven and Hell (1980); W. G. T. Shedd, The Doctrine of Endless Punishment (1980).
(from The New Unger's Bible Dictionary. Originally published by Moody Press of Chicago, Illinois. Copyright © 1988.)

 

[denise04]

th rich man

yees, but the rich man we imeadetly to hell and lazreath to heaven your soul cant just lay in the grave, tbible clearly says after you die you go straightto heaven or hell until judgement day.