Do you believe women could be a pastor?

[Templedweller]

Yes I believe they can

 

[HappyCat]

There is no need to thank me, Ushalk. If the Bible says it, then it is so. Too many people try to change things around to go with "the times," and as good as it seems to be able to slip in new meaning twisted here and there to make us feel better and get away with more, the fact is that God's Word stays the same.
Faithful Son, leave it to me to make a point whenever, whether it's a right time or not. It does drive me nuts though, even when capitalization is not done in the Bible. One time I was reading the Bible and wondering who the man was who I was reading about. It was Jesus!!! I actually felt horrified, and that was the time when I realized that He is not just anybody, and should be lifted up in any way possible.

:shock: It's my night night time! Goodnight, and God bless you!

 

[ushalk]

yes you are so right happy cat. there are so many false teachings in this world today. it is so very sad to see that man has belittled God to money and fornication and so many other garbage ideas. i hope and pray that the lord will show us our error and open our hearts to the false things that are in so that we can push them out and let him in.

thank you faithful son. i did not know that.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Re: Women being pastors

Cody,

I think you need to look into the background behind Paul's letters to Timothy. Paul had sent Timothy to assume leadershiop of the church at Ephesus and straighten out their theology and their worship practices. Many Ephesian Christians had been drawn into Gnosticism and false asceticism. In addition, Jewish Christians were seperating themselves from the Gentile believers. Also,they had just been rescued from a culture that featured wild orgies as part of its temple worship and , as we all know, old habits are hard to break.

To expand on my earlier post, I do not believe that Paul intended his teachings on worship practices and church administration contained in 1 & 2 Corinthians and 1 & 2 Timothy to reach beyond the first century churches of Asia Minor (Ephesus, Corinth and their immediate areas). I believe that he was writing letters to and about those churches only and that his purpose was to correct situations in those churches that desperately needed correction at that time.

Therefore, in my opinion, the teaching on women being silent in church should be looked upon only in an historical context as something that was needed in those specific churches at that specific time, not as something to be applied to the entire church for all time.


SLE

 

[Cody]

I disagree, he tells them why he gave that rule, mentioning Adam and Eve. Therefore I don't believe this is just to one or a couple of churches, but to every church.

1 Timothy 2:11-14
11 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." KJV

 

[Stylez4Christ]

I disagree, he tells them why he gave that rule, mentioning Adam and Eve. Therefore I don't believe this is just to one or a couple of churches, but to every church.

1 Timothy 2:11-14
11 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." KJV

That scripture has nothing to do with church order or in ministrys, it has to do within a family household its verse 10-15 , plz don't use the few verse. Is like in the 1900s into the 1950s where allot of family household such as being modest and the wife would work around the house why'll the husband work at a job we don't see allot of that no more I think some mainstream pentecostal or the Amish if you know what I am talking about the Amish

 

[willb]

That scripture has nothing to do with church order or in ministrys, it has to do within a family household its verse 10-15 , plz don't use the few verse. Is like in the 1900s into the 1950s where allot of family household such as being modest and the wife would work around the house why'll the husband work at a job we don't see allot of that no more I think some mainstream pentecostal or the Amish if you know what I am talking about the Amish

He is not using a few verses, its what the bible says. The bible is the final authority not our beliefs, the bible says women cannot teach men so how can they be pastors.

 

[Abigail]

I disagree, he tells them why he gave that rule, mentioning Adam and Eve. Therefore I don't believe this is just to one or a couple of churches, but to every church.

1 Timothy 2:11-14
11 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." KJV

You seem to be missing the part where it say according to LAW.
We, however, are not in law, we have become new creations according to grace. You can't have both.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35
33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, [as the LAW SAYS. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

 

[Faithful Son]

What is the Law according to you sister? To me, the law is the ten commandments in Exodus, otherwise, I don't know of any other law. The ten commandments never said that about woman.

 

[Abigail]

What is the Law according to you sister? To me, the law is the ten commandments in Exodus, otherwise, I don't know of any other law. The ten commandments never said that about woman.

Well, it's not rabinical law which is what Paul is refering to here.

 

[Stylez4Christ]

He is not using a few verses, its what the bible says. The bible is the final authority not our beliefs, the bible says women cannot teach men so how can they be pastors.

I still disagree because that verse has nothing to do with ministry, notice what the last verse says but see now where dose it say anything about women not teaching the word of God no where in the bible, where dose it says women cant be a pastor? No where..:embarasse

You seem to be missing the part where it say according to LAW.
We, however, are not in law, we have become new creations according to grace. You can't have both.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35
33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, [as the LAW SAYS. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Hahahahahaha here you go ... No, stop pulling out scripture! That is not the hold thing that is also a few verse. Look closer to 1 Corinthians 14 again it has nothing to do with not being a pastor! That not even what Pual says! Plz look at it again closly and I think people are against gender over women:embarasse:shock:

 

[Abigail]

I still disagree because that verse has nothing to do with ministry, notice what the last verse says but see now where dose it say anything about women not teaching the word of God no where in the bible, where dose it says women cant be a pastor? No where..:embarasse

Hahahahahaha here you go ... No, stop pulling out scripture! That is not the hold thing that is also a few verse. Look closer to 1 Corinthians 14 again it has nothing to do with not being a pastor! That not even what Pual says! Plz look at it again closly and I think people are against gender over women:embarasse:shock:

1 corinthians 14
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

In the last days their will be men and women prophesying, why? to edify the church. ok, got it.

 

[Stylez4Christ]

1 corinthians 14
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.

In the last days their will be men and women prophesying, why? to edify the church. ok, got it.

Nope, missing something

 

[Abigail]

Nope, can't find anything but (edited by LLJ)

Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.

which i could say as verse out of context to mean that law is for the instruction of unbelievers and grace is for the instruction of saints.

So, you'll just have to tell us.

 

[Stylez4Christ]

This is going to be funny but nope wrong answere as nothing to do with tongues

 

[Chad]

I still disagree because that verse has nothing to do with ministry, notice what the last verse says but see now where dose it say anything about women not teaching the word of God no where in the bible, where dose it says women cant be a pastor? No where..:embarasse

Hahahahahaha here you go ... No, stop pulling out scripture! That is not the hold thing that is also a few verse. Look closer to 1 Corinthians 14 again it has nothing to do with not being a pastor! That not even what Pual says! Plz look at it again closly and I think people are against gender over women:embarasse:shock:

You really need to study more often and let the Holy Spirit guide you. This is not the first time you've been against what Scripture has taught us by defending your own understanding. This is wrong and not welcomed here. Its an insult to GOD to just respond with self understanding instead of the teachings of the Holy Spirit in spirit and truth (the WORD).

I have aready stated my beleifs that yours are outdated, not according to grace but according to law (as Paul also stated)
Yes, I think your ways are prejudised against women who are equal partners of the blessings.
I honestly have no reason to listen to you since it's all one sided with you and no reasonable talk is possible.
Also, thank you to all the "real men" in this thread. :hugs:

Cody I honestly get the feeling from you (oh no I said feeling) that you are working from a jealousy that all men and no women are not in a leading positions , but that is in the catagory of envey and not of the kingdom.

Also. if the prophetess would stop being killed off in word and deed then maybe some good would come to the Lord's people on earth. No matter who carries the Word it's all a part of the whole bodies inheritance and I see a few squeeky wheels quellshing it for everyone. JMHO

Scripture is never outdated and we are called to abide by the Scripture. It is GOD's creation, His plans and His unique gifts to each individual. Therefore, if GOD wants man to be pastors and women to teach in other areas, so be it. Will you argue continually and accuse others for being "outdated" and jealous? Let's not spit on others out of anger or frustration. Instead, let the Holy Spirit speak.

Read the article I posted on page 2, read it carefully.

1 Timothy 2:11-14
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

(below is a general summary from an article at gotquestions.org)

Paul restricts women from spiritual teaching over men including pastoring.

Some objections to 1 Timothy 2:11-14

• Paul's restriction is due to women being uneducated in first century

If education was a qualification for ministry, the majority of Jesus' disciples likely would not have been qualified

• Paul only restricted the Ephesian women from teaching

The city of Ephesus was known for its temple to Artemis, a false Greek / Roman goddess. Women were the authority in the worship of Artemis. However, the book of 1 Timothy nowhere mentions Artemis, nor does Paul mention Artemis worship as a reason for the restrictions in 1 Timothy 2:11-12

• Paul is only referring to husbands and wives, not men and women in general

There is nothing in the context that would indicate a switch to husbands and wives in verses 11-14.

• Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Priscilla, Phoebe, etc. - women who held positions of leadership in the Bible

The two most prominent women in the times of the Kings were Athaliah and Jezebel - hardly examples of godly female leadership.

Book of Acts 18, Priscilla and Aquila are presented as faithful ministers for Christ. Priscilla is nowhere described as participating in a ministry activity that is in contradiction to 1 Timothy 2:11-14. Priscilla and Aquila brought Apollos into their home and they both discipled him, explaining the Word of God to him more accurately (Acts 18:26).

The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11-14 makes the "reason" perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with "for" and gives the "cause" of what Paul stated in verses 11-12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because - "Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived." That is the reason. God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a "helper" for Adam. This order of Creation has universal application to humanity in the family (Ephesians 5:22-33) and the church.

Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3-5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This logically would include women serving as pastors / preachers. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with how God has gifted them.

 

[Abigail]

You quote this scripture

1 Timothy 2:11-14
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.


and ignor this scripture

1 Corinthians 14:33-35
33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, [as the LAW SAYS. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

My point exactly.

But since the owners of forums are the dictators then I must find another outlet for my misbegotten whatevers.

 

[Chad]

You quote this scripture

1 Timothy 2:11-14
11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.


and ignor this scripture

1 Corinthians 14:33-35
33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, [as the LAW SAYS. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

My point exactly.

But since the owners of forums are the dictators then I must find another outlet for my misbegotten whatevers.

You can take your ungodly attitude somewhere else. Your obviously not humble nor polite. This is the second time in this thread you've insulted someone. Your not welcomed here any longer.

The Scripture you quoted clearly states women should not teach, yet your point is that they can? GOD is not the author of confusion, and you are confusing very much.

 

[Stylez4Christ]

:embarasseNo no I am not against the scripture. You miss understood what I said. I'm saying that she shouldn't be taking that scripture out. Watch now look..



1 Corinthians 14:34-36 Old KJV
34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

I wonder why no one use verse 36? Hmmmmm, something fishy about that :embarasse and that why I said stop pulling out verse.

After this chauvinistic statement Paul exclaims "What?" Paul is almost beside himself when he reads back this statement from the letter written to him. Paul is not the one making the statement. Paul is quoting from the letter. The fact Paul exclaims, "What? came the word of God out from you?" shows that the statement came from the Corinthian church, and they were claiming to exclude the women from speaking based on the Law, which they claimed was the word of God.
Of course when you recognize that Paul did not teach the Law but Grace, you realize Paul would never use the Law to prove anything. The author of this statement about women remaining silent used the Law as the basis of this practice. "But they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law." Paul would never use the Law to enforce any behavior. Paul taught that the Law was nailed to the cross (see Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14), so why would he appeal to the Law to ban women? Paul did not agree with the statement but questioned it.
In response to this ban on women, Paul says, "Let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command" (14:37). Paul taught and wrote that the women in Corinth could prophesy with their heads covered (ch 11). He also wrote, "For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged " (14:31). All can prophesy. That includes women!
Paul taught the equality of women and men. He recognized cultural behaviors such as the ones in Corinth, (example: head covered), but he also says, "In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman" (11:11). He differentiates between cultural norms and equality in the Lord. His famous statement in Galatians should remove all doubt as to whether or not Paul was a "woman hater" as some have claimed.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Gal 3:28)
This show that we are in one in Christ, we are equal


1 Timothy 2:12-15.
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
This is not dealing with "church" authority but authority in the "home." The context proves it. Paul uses Adam and Eve as the example of authority. What relationship did Adam and Eve have? They were husband and wife, not pastor and sheep. Since there is no Greek word for husband and wife, the word "man" and "woman" is also translated "husband" and "wife", and based on the context these words should have been translated as such.




I am here to say is not against women to preach because he not a women hater because I show a scripture that he not against women and I am also here to say is enough with the man made tradition for women to not be a Pastor, Evangelist, Minister, A Deaconess, Prophetess, or so on everyone has a calling by the willing of God!


There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (Gal 3:28)
This show that we are in one in Christ, we are equal

I believed that women sort of not preach over men but accept I believed they like for example like preach like Salvation or lift up someone or preach about Jesus but men stuff no I kind think male should the samething over females but I believed women could do that but that dose not mean women can't be a Pastor I believed is important for pastoring the women because some womenn don't feel confortable by talk to a male pastor just to give a good point there )

 

[Cody]

Galations 3:28
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." KJV

This verse is not talking about rules in church or house at all. This verse is talking about salvation.

Also, prophesying doesn't always mean to preach. In 1 Chronicles 25, you can find women were prophesying in song.