Jacobs trouble

Dave M

Dave M

Loyal
This one name is only used one time that I am aware of in the bible. Now I know one very popular view of this verse is that it is referring to end times in the tribulation, I wonder how people come to that conclusion. When the entire chapter is dealing with the captivity of Israel in Babylon. I see it pretty straightforward and definatley think it referering to the there captivity in babylon. would love to hear your view on it

thanks

Jeremiah 30:7
Alas! For that day is great, So that none is like it; And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble, But he shall be saved out of it.
 
Well I basically dont know if it applies to "just" the babylonian captivity or to multiple instances which sometimes prophecy can speak to multiple completions of it. It certainly could only apply to the babylonian captivity, but that ended after 70 years and the remnant returned to Israel. And those that stayed in babylon actually drew alot of people in that area closer to God, there was jewish centers of learning set up in that distant land that were actually well respected in that area. Where as when rome disolved the jewish state in AD 60, it was scattered for about 2000 years and they tended to be rejected and despised wherever they traveled. Perhaps that is what is spoken of. And also, scripture speaks of the revived Israel near the end of days that is nearly utterly destroyed before Jesus returns in the clouds with 10,000 of His Holy ones who will save that remnant, and destroy the jewish attackers so badly that a river of blood taller than most men will be flowing from the death of them. I am unsure which instance the passage speaks of. Why is it that you wonder over it?
 
Brad Huber said:
Well I basically dont know if it applies to "just" the babylonian captivity or to multiple instances which sometimes prophecy can speak to multiple completions of it. It certainly could only apply to the babylonian captivity, but that ended after 70 years and the remnant returned to Israel. And those that stayed in babylon actually drew alot of people in that area closer to God, there was jewish centers of learning set up in that distant land that were actually well respected in that area. Where as when rome disolved the jewish state in AD 60, it was scattered for about 2000 years and they tended to be rejected and despised wherever they traveled. Perhaps that is what is spoken of. And also, scripture speaks of the revived Israel near the end of days that is nearly utterly destroyed before Jesus returns in the clouds with 10,000 of His Holy ones who will save that remnant, and destroy the jewish attackers so badly that a river of blood taller than most men will be flowing from the death of them. I am unsure which instance the passage speaks of. Why is it that you wonder over it?
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I hear it mentioned a lot, but I also considered it could be referring to several prophecies as you stated, do not recal anyone every saying that, but I have thought of that as well, good to see someone else say that
 
I will mention things concerning this verse and verses before and afterwards, was just relooking these verses, there will be some commentaries on certain parts of it, that I will mention, but there are very key words mentioned, which brings Jacob's trouble at an exact time frame.
 
Let us start with verse 3.

Jer 30:3
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

Here is a comment on it:

(Jimmy Swaggart)

(While Israel would partially fulfil this after the dispersion into Babylon, still, its total fulfillment awaits the coming Kingdom Age.)
Now our next verses:

Jer 30:4-6
4 And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?

(Jimmy Swaggart)

("And all faces are turned into paleness," refers to Israel's shock when she realizes that she has been played for a fool! The Antichrist is really not the Messiah, but an imposter! Israel has been deceived! Consequently, there seems to be no way out of their dilemma and they face what looks like certain annihilation.)
Next verse:
Jer 30:7
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

So what is this time of Jacob's trouble ?

It will be a time were there is no time like this time. It give trouble to Jacob, which represents Israel, but Jacob (Israel) shall be saved out of it, or at least a portion will be.

So what time is this talking about ?

Jer 30:8
8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:

Many say this is breaking the yoke of the Antichrist off of Jacob.

And concerning the Antichrist, in Revelations it says that he speaks with the mouth of a lion, which points to Babylon, in a figurative way here, and the Antichrist will speak with great authority, even as Nebuchadnezzar did, although with greater authority.

Now what happens after Jacob faces this trouble and gets saved out of the yoke of the Antichrist ?

Jer 30:9
9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

So afterwards, when Jacob gets saved out of his troubles, they will serve the Lord their God but when ?

Ezk 37:24
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

Rev 19:13-15
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

We know that Jesus did not start his reign in Babylonian times and that Jacob did not come to God as a whole at that time.

Christ will reign as king of kings in the millennial reign, which is when Jacob gets saved out of his troubles, completely.

Now some say that sometimes David in certain verses refers to Jesus in a figurative way (which is true of some verses), although others say that both Jesus and David will have some type of reign in the millennial reign, of course Jesus as being the king of kings, but whatever is the case, we know that Jesus will be here for his millennial reign.
 
Gerbolski said:
Let us start with verse 3.

Jer 30:3
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

Here is a comment on it:

(Jimmy Swaggart)

(While Israel would partially fulfil this after the dispersion into Babylon, still, its total fulfillment awaits the coming Kingdom Age.)
Now our next verses:
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I would disagree the Lord has fulfilled everything he said to Israel.
Kings 8-56
“Blessed be the LORD who has given rest to his people Israel, according to all that he promised. Not one word has failed of all his good promise, which he spoke by Moses his servant.
Joshua 21:43
Thus the LORD gave to Israel all the land that he swore to give to their fathers. And they took possession of it, and they settled there.
 
I already can see were this is going, I guess millennial verses, which also talk about Israel do not matter to you, just your doctrine.
 
Gerbolski said:
I already can see were this is going, I guess millennial verses, which also talk about Israel do not matter to you, just your doctrine.
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not sure what versus are you talking about? I believe what the bible says, if the bible says God has fulfilled all his promises he has, do you not believe what the bible says?
 
I am not a one verse Charlie , I believe all verses, and things need to be taken in context, and the bible says to compare the word with the word, and he has more promises to fulfill such as the new heaven and earth, millennial reign and bringing back Israel unto himself, you know the scriptures, because it has been exhausted in other posts, do not pretend you do not know.
 
Jer 30:7-9
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

It is obvious Israel is not serving the Lord today, nor back then, and it is obvious David their king (some say refer to Jesus) is not reigning, nor was he reigning in Babylonian times, and if it literally means David, David was long dead in the Babylonian empire times.

I can go to Isaiah, Ezekiel and many other verses.
 
Jer 31:31-34
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

This speaks of both what happens in the new covenant, but also a promise that he will bring Israel back to himself, this has nothing to do with what you quoted which is the land promise, although within that promise you should read verses before and after and chapters before and after and the book of Judges to get the whole picture.

No doubt you are a replacement theology person, Israel is still Israel, and Gentiles are still Gentiles, Paul shows us that over and over again, and then there is spiritual Israel, which is a different topic.
 
Concerning the New Heavens ands New earth yes it will be believers there, but will there for some reason or another, be still nations ?

Rev 22:1-2
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
 
thanks for the reply, "replacement theology person" what is he replacing Israel with? Israel as a nation have a remnant in them just like every nation has a small remnant that will Come to Christ, he is not finished with any nation. It is all about Christ, not Israel. So not really sure what that means. THe apostles are all Jews, after the return from Babylon God did what he said he would created a new convent and put his law on the hearts of his people who love him and obey him. Christ came and fulfilled this.

There is no Jew or any person that gets saved because of his race or the nation he belongs to. So what is this special treatment so many give Israel, for God show no partiality. Yet so many people do
Gerbolski said:
Jer 30:9
9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
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I believe this was fulfilled in Christ, when he started the church.

Acts 10:34​

So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality,

Galatians 3:28​

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
 
Do you believe in the millennial reign were Jesus reigns for 1000 years ? And notice that it is after Jacob's trouble, that Israel gets saved out of, that king David (Jesus) reigns, and they serve him.

And God will bring a portion of Israel to a place to were they repent, so what is Jacob's trouble to you ?
 
Rom 11:26
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

It says all Israel shall be saved, and it means it, that is every Israelite that survive the great tribulation, all of them shall repent and receive Christ as their Lord and savior, and this happens at the second coming of Christ when Christ begins to reign for 1000 years, this was not true in the time of the 12 disciples, only some Jews were saved, but ungodliness over all was not removed from Jacob, so the statemetnt of all Jews shall be saved in the 12 disciples' time does not fit this true statement, which should not be changed.

All means all, for it says it, now this is still considered a remnant, in the sense of all that survive the great tribulation shall be save, but there will be some that die before hand that will not receive the Lord in this time of Jacob's trouble. And who's ungodliness shall be removed ? Jacob's , Jacob's, Jacob's !!!!!!!
 
Gerbolski said:
Do you believe in the millennial reign were Jesus reigns for 1000 years ?
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yes, and scripture tells us exactly who will reign with him,
1. everyone who has beheaded for there testimony of Jesus and the word of God, we see this happening today.
2. And those who have not worshipped the beast or its image.
3. And those that did not take the mark

Revelation 20:4-6​

Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
 
Gerbolski said:
Rom 11:26
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

It says all Israel shall be saved, and it means it, that is every Israelite that survive the great tribulation, all of them shall repent and receive Christ as their Lord and savior, and this happens at the second coming of Christ when Christ begins to reign for 1000 years, this was not true in the time of the 12 disciples, only some Jews were saved, but ungodliness over all was not removed from Jacob, so the statemetnt of all Jews shall be saved in the 12 disciples' time does not fit this true statement, which should not be changed.

All means all, for it says it, now this is still considered a remnant, in the sense of all that survive the great tribulation shall be save, but there will be some that die before hand that will not receive the Lord in this time of Jacob's trouble. And who's ungodliness shall be removed ? Jacob's , Jacob's, Jacob's !!!!!!!
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Now this is wear we differ for sure, I will get back to this I have to go now, but thanks for the peaceful discussion it is much appreciated. All Israel is a key point I will like to explore later when I have more time, that is a great topic right there, thanks
 
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