So the thing is, no one would pass Gods judgement of their heart and mind....
Unless they are sinless.
So your argument here is null and void.
You can do nothing, BUT
- Thread starter Dave M
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So the thing is, no one would pass Gods judgement of their heart and mind....
Unless they are sinless.
So your argument here is null and void.
I would urge you not to get too caught up in these matters.
I can understand from your postings you might even be a bit hurt for example by Rad's insistence of not knowing if we have salvation or not or will pass go and collect 200$ after death.
But i can tell you the only antidote to these matters is faith. And God may even be testing Rad, in ways he may not even be ready to discover, and such has influenced his beliefs. (I have seen this before).
A friend of mine was worried for decades about Jesus warning of false salvation, and it caused him a lot of depression. When i told him its real simple: they lied, and they knew all along they were not born again, etc, i could tell it lifted a large burden off of him to realize that.
Basically just as worrying about your life wont add one more day to its length, so worrying about your salvation wont save you.
You cant abide in Jesus and bear fruit, and not be saved.
But if you bear bad fruit you get cut off. Its real simple no need to argue about it
KingJ
Loyal
Sure, but unless we repent of our sins Luke 5:32, James 4:8 and pass God's judgement of heart and mind Jer 17:9-11 we will never be 'gifted' salvation.
There is a fine line between love and actions.
Love is not merely a feeling. It is a combination of will and action. Feelings may accompany love, but biblical love is demonstrated by what we choose to do. Jesus said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15).
KingJ
Loyal
And you say you are not a Calvinist? That is a 5 point Calvinist statement.
You are confusing being sinless with being equally accountable.
- God judges people according to their deeds. Romans 2:6 says God will render to every person according to their deeds. It does not say He treats every sinner identically.
- God considers the light and knowledge a person has received. Luke 12:47-48 teaches that the servant who knew his master's will receives a greater punishment than the one who did not know it. So knowledge and accountability matter.
- God judges the heart and mind. Jeremiah 17:10 says He searches the heart and tests the mind to give each person according to their ways and deeds.
- God is impartial and just. Romans 2:11 says there is no partiality with God. That means He judges each person justly, not that every person must be sinless to be judged differently.
Hannah1
Active
That`s the same thing
But what does "belief in him" mean to you, in Luke 6:46 Christ says " Why do you call me Lord, Lord, but not do the things i say", and in Matthew7:23 Christ says "whoever hears these sayings of mine and does them, i will liken him to a wise man that built his house upon a rock", and in Matthew 25:31-46, "The Sheep and the Goats" ,Christ divides people into those saved and condemned on the basis of their acts of compassion to those in need, those that possess riches are condemned, Luke 6:24 and the poor are blessed Luke 6: 20, we are told we must deny ourselves, take up our Cross and follow Christ , Matthew 16:24-26, and that if we do not hate our lives, John 12:25 and the lives of those around us, Luke 14:26-27, then we cannot be his follower. Whether you believe that works are a prerequisite for Salvation or that faith inspires works which lead to salvation, the teaching is clear, you cannot claim to be a follower of Christ and not do the things he says.
And my point about not knowing whether youre saved or not is predicated on the fact that none of us can know the mind of God, none of us can know with certainty our fate, salvation or condemnation, for none of us know just how much God requires from each of us, for if "much is expected from whom much is given to", Luke 12:48, then how do we know just what that expectation is?.
The Judgement of Salvation or condemnation is Gods alone for he alone knows ALL the facts and his judgement is perfect and Just, all we can do is to try our best with what we've been given to follow Christs teachings and commandments and to try to second guess Gods judgement is futile as it is based on our own sinful nature.
We cannot "earn" our Salvation, for we are ALL wretched sinners and our salvation is based on Gods Grace, Mercy and Forgiveness, but for all the reasons i've given above God requires each of us to reach a certain lever before that Grace and forgiveness is granted, we dont know what that level is but do know that Gods judgement will be both just and final.
I cant really say it any other way, we are NOT saved by our works, we are saved by Gods grace, Forgiveness and Mercy, but to receive Gods Grace and forgiveness we must give our lives in following Christ words and teachings, to lose our lives in his service, only then will Gods Grace be granted, Matthew 16:24-25, and it is no coincidence that shortly after saying those words in Matthew 16:27 Christ says , " For the Son of Man will come in the glory of his Father with his Angels , and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS".
Please see the reply i've given above
I agree, we are ALL wretched sinners, dependent on Gods Grace, Mercy and Forgiveness for our Salvation, but, if we profess to believe in Christ, to be his followers then we must obey his commandments and teachings, see references in previous post, and that level of adherence that God requires from each of us depends on what we've been given, a level only God knows, so none of us can be assured of our Salvation and ALL of us must try with all of our being to follow the words and teachings of our professed Lord and Saviour. Luke 6:46-49.
Were the "Goats" in Matthew 25:31-46 "forgiven for the rest they didnt do"?. Was the Rich man in "Lazarus and the Rich Man" Luke 16:19-31 forgiven "for the rest he didnt do", will those that do not " deny themselves, take up their cross.... and lose their lives in Christs service be forgiven, for what they didnt do ?, were those that "Prophesied in Christs name, cast out Devils in his name and done many wonderful works in his name" forgiven for "the rest we cannot do"?, Matthew 7:21-23, "For sure we ALL need forgiveness, ALL are dependent on Gods Grace and Mercy for our Salvation, but all of must "Hunger and thirst after Righteousness", to do the will of God, Matthew 5:6 and to try our hardest to build our lives on the solid rock of the Christ we profess to be our Lord and Saviour.
If you read the Gospels you'll see Christ requires far more from his followers than the 10 Commandments, but i agree we follow his teachings and commandments because we love him and because we love our fellow man, we treat others as we'd want to be treated. But that Love must be an all consuming Love, Christ has a hold on our lives and expects us to give our All for him. None of us will reach that state of perfection, but it seems to me that its in the gap between whats expected of us and what we actually achieve that we will slip into Damnation.
We should do our best, but none of us will, and the difference between what God expects of us and what we actually do , for all the references i've given in my previous posts, has everything to do with whether we are saved or condemned.
KingJ
Loyal
So much evil in Calvinism and your statements.
Calvinists (and you) make a meal of sin. As if sin is the problem with us. It is not. The problem with mankind is a love of sin.
If you read Luke 16:19-31 you will see that sinners in Hades were separated from each other. One camp in fire loved sin, the other camp in paradise hated it.
Paul emphasizes this truth in Rom 12:9 and Rom 7:15.
Rom 12:9 Love must be genuine and sincere. Hate that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
KingJ
Loyal
Losers? Its not a winners and losers situation.
It is repentant and unrepentant.
Calvinism teaches that God has preselected certain individuals for salvation.
I don't feel you properly read posts or grasp the gravity and error of your statements and Calvinism.
Ask AI how monstrously evil God would be if the god of Calvinism was the real god. And then ask AI how the prophets in scripture defined God.