DO THE NEW BIBLES MAKE JESUS A LIAR?

[DougE]

You appear to be more knowledgeable than all previous scholars yet deem your knowledge an opinion.
What I have shared is based upon the work of many more knowledgeable than myself who have gone before me and is not my opinion.

With all due respect then you are conveying their opinion
The only thing that can be definitively said is one manuscript says "yet" and the other doesn't

then there is no point to your posting this thread or many like it in TalkJesus.

I fail to understand your reasoning
How does me saying it has to be decided which Bible is chosen have to do with the pertinence of my postings?

May I ask if you have studied any of these things you post about

Yes I have

how familiar you are with Greek and Hebrew and early Church history?

Why would that be necessary?

You post as if you have some authority on the subject you write about yet pass off any attempt at Bible Study by others as of no value while exhibiting no actual learning yourself.

Haven't we had a Bible discussion?

It is good to share concerns about what differences there are in different translations and version of the Bible. However, you make your concerns of no effect if you then render them your mere opinion and written basically, each to their own.

I have merely cited verses, and point out the differences, and how it impacts doctrine
It's not my opinion that there are missing words or verses, seeing there are missing words and verses, which you can read for yourself
It would be my opinion if I asserted why there are missing words or verses, which I dont.
I can only assert that one manuscript has the word or verse, and the other doesnt

could you please give some indication what proof of that you base that statement upon?

"but it could also be a possibility "yet" was removed"​

Proof?????
If a word isnt there in a verse in one Bible and it is there in another, it was either added or removed. There are no other possibilities

 

[DougE]

then there is no point to your posting this thread or many like it in TalkJesus.

I just got what you are saying I think
I said people have to decide which Bible to use
I am only making them aware that there are some substantial differences in Bibles
I cant make them chose one over another, its up to them if they are even interested in thinking about it

 

[joestue]

I just got what you are saying I think
I said people have to decide which Bible to use
I am only making them aware that there are some substantial differences in Bibles

Nothing in life is that simple


One account says saul fell on his sword.

Another account says 2 of davids servants found saul wounded and killed him. They boast about killing saul so david kills them.

Whats the truth? Its hard to say for sure but it looks like saul attempted to kill himself and failed. Davids servents find him and put him out of his misery, then decide to lie to david about it and they tell david they killed saul. So, did david do the right thing in killing his servants? Why not just call them out on their boasting?


And you know whats even more interesting? You will probably go looking for what i just said, fail to find it, and decide i must be completely wrong because the one account you could find refers to them as armor bearers or swordsman, not servants.


So, its just, uh, pointless, to even try to have a conversation.

You can decide all you want what bible to read, but it will not help you to get on your own knees and Jesus what to do with your remaining time on this earth

 

[DougE]

Nothing in life is that simple


One account says saul fell on his sword.

Another account says 2 of davids servants found saul wounded and killed him. They boast about killing saul so david kills them.

Whats the truth? Its hard to say for sure but it looks like saul attempted to kill himself and failed. Davids servents find him and put him out of his misery, then decide to lie to david about it and they tell david they killed saul. So, did david do the right thing in killing his servants? Why not just call them out on their boasting?


And you know whats even more interesting? You will probably go looking for what i just said, fail to find it, and decide i must be completely wrong because the one account you could find refers to them as armor bearers or swordsman, not servants.


So, its just, uh, pointless, to even try to have a conversation.

You can decide all you want what bible to read, but it will not help you to get on your own knees and Jesus what to do with your remaining time on this earth

We arent given enough for a firm explanation
I will integrate the two accounts to explain how I see it

Saul was wounded in battle

[1 Samuel 31:4 KJV] "Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it." **********That didn't kill him and he was still barely alive

[2 Samuel 1:6 KJV] "And the young man that told him said, As I happened by chance upon mount Gilboa, behold, Saul leaned upon his spear; and, lo, the chariots and horsemen followed hard after him."
[2 Samuel 1:9 KJV] "He said unto me again, Stand, I pray thee, upon me, and slay me: for anguish is come upon me, because my life [is] yet whole in me."
[2 Samuel 1:10 KJV] "So I stood upon him, and slew him, because I was sure that he could not live after that he was fallen: and I took the crown that [was] upon his head, and the bracelet that [was] on his arm, and have brought them hither unto my lord." ********** Saul says he his still alive after trying to kill himself. The young man deliverd the death blow

[1 Samuel 31:5 KJV] "And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise upon his sword, and died with him.

 

[DougE]

You can decide all you want what bible to read, but it will not help you to get on your own knees and Jesus what to do with your remaining time on this earth

[Hebrews 13:21 KJV] "Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen."
[Philippians 2:13 KJV] "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure."

You have to have all of God's word to do his will

 

[KingJ]

[John 7:8 KJV] "Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come."
[John 7:8 NIV] "You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come."" ********** Jesus said he wouldn't go to the feast YET, but the NIV removes yet ****** [John 7:10 KJV] "But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret." ********* Jesus did go to feast. The NIV makes Jesus a liar because he told them he wasn't going.

What I find interesting is the NIV has a footnote saying "Some manuscripts not yet". If some had yet, why did they decide to omit it? By the way, if not yet was in other manuscripts, this rules out saying a scribe added it.

You are simply making a reading blunder. If John intended to portray Jesus as lying, why would the same passage immediately clarify that Jesus did go to the feast, “but as it were in secret” (John 7:10)? The context explains both the timing and manner of His 'going', so there is no contradiction to begin with.

 

[DougE]

You are simply making a reading blunder. If John intended to portray Jesus as lying, why would the same passage immediately clarify that Jesus did go to the feast, “but as it were in secret” (John 7:10)? The context explains both the timing and manner of His 'going', so there is no contradiction to begin with.

John wasnt trying to make Jesus a liar. The new Bibles have done that by using a different manuscript
The verse is dependent on the word yet
KJV says I go up not yet
The new Bibles say I am not going up at all
Thats not a reading blunder thats making Jesus saying two different things and since he did go to the feast the new Bibles have made him a liar

 

[joestue]

You have to have all of God's word to do his will

So here you telegraph your intentions and motives...


You preach a dead religion that relies on "the correct book" rather than the correct Spirit of God.

 

[KingJ]

John wasnt trying to make Jesus a liar. The new Bibles have done that by using a different manuscript
The verse is dependent on the word yet
KJV says I go up not yet
The new Bibles say I am not going up at all
Thats not a reading blunder thats making Jesus saying two different things and since he did go to the feast the new Bibles have made him a liar

You are assuming “I am not going up” can only mean “I will never go at all,” but John himself explains what Jesus meant. John 7:10 says He went “not openly, but as it were in secret.” The context is about timing and manner, not deception.

Also, if removing “yet” automatically makes Jesus a liar, then you would have to conclude John himself wrote a contradiction into his own Gospel only two verses later, which makes no sense. There is no contradiction, only you making a reading blunder.

 

[DougE]

So here you telegraph your intentions and motives...


You preach a dead religion that relies on "the correct book" rather than the correct Spirit of God.

Just saying the new Bibles have missing words and verses
You have to decide if that means anything to you or not

 

[DougE]

You are assuming “I am not going up” can only mean “I will never go at all,” but John himself explains what Jesus meant. John 7:10 says He went “not openly, but as it were in secret.” The context is about timing and manner, not deception.

Also, if removing “yet” automatically makes Jesus a liar, then you would have to conclude John himself wrote a contradiction into his own Gospel only two verses later, which makes no sense. There is no contradiction, only you making a reading blunder.

It's really very simple
Jesus saying he wasnt going up yet and he wasnt going are self-explanatory and evident as being two different conflicting statements
Going up in secret has no bearing. Jesus said he wasnt going up yet because his time hadnt fully come

 

[DougE]

So here you telegraph your intentions and motives...


You preach a dead religion that relies on "the correct book" rather than the correct Spirit of God.

Care to make an attempt at a Biblical discussion?