Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Bought Slaves

B-A-C

Loyal
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
12,066
Bought — But Does That Guarantee Eternal Security?

There is no dispute that Jesus purchased us. The Scripture is unambiguous on this point.

1 Corinthians 6:20"For you were bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body."

1 Corinthians 7:23"You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men."

Acts 20:28"the church of God which He purchased with His own blood."

1 Peter 1:18-19"you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ."

The word translated "bought" in 1 Corinthians is the Greek agorazō — slave market language. A price was paid. Ownership transferred. No argument there.

But here is the question this thread wants to examine — does being bought, being owned, being purchased by Jesus automatically guarantee eternal security regardless of what follows?


Who exactly is "bought"?

Consider two parables.

In Matthew 25, the Parable of the Talents, a master entrusts three slaves with his resources. All three are his slaves — why else would he entrust his talents to them? The third slave buries his talent and is cast into outer darkness. He was the master's slave. He was still cast out.

In Luke 13, a man has a fig tree in his vineyard that bears no fruit. He comes looking for fruit three years running and finds none. The owner says cut it down. Note — it is his tree, in his vineyard. He is not looking for fruit from someone else's tree. The tree belongs to him. And it is still in danger of being cut down if it remains unfruitful.

In Exodus 5:1, God tells Moses to say to Pharaoh — "Let MY people go." My people. Ownership language, directly from God. And yet the writer of Hebrews uses that same generation — God's own people, redeemed from Egypt — as a warning to believers. They never entered the promised land. The rest was available. They did not enter because of unbelief.

These were not outsiders. They were not unbought people. They were owned, entrusted, called "My people" — and still did not arrive.

Being bought does not prevent denial or rebellion

2 Peter 2:1 is perhaps the most direct verse on this question —

"But false prophets also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves."

Read that carefully. Peter does not say these were people who appeared to be bought, or were bought in some lesser sense. He states plainly — the Master bought them. And in the very same verse — they denied that Master and brought swift destruction upon themselves.

This is not describing unbought people perishing. This is describing bought people who denied the One who bought them and destroyed themselves by their own action. Peter's grammar is deliberate — they brought it upon themselves. The Master did not revoke the purchase. They denied Him.

1 Corinthians 7:23 adds another dimension — "You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men." Paul is warning bought people against a real possibility. You cannot meaningfully warn someone against becoming something they are categorically incapable of becoming. The warning is real because the danger is real.


Romans 6:16 — the present tense test

"Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey — either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness."

Paul does not say you are slave to whoever purchased you. He says you are slave to whoever you obey — right now, present tense, ongoing. Slavery in Paul's framework is tested by present obedience not only by past transaction.

Which brings us to the words of Jesus Himself in Luke 6:46

"Why do you call Me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say?"

Lord. Kyrios. Master. Owner. If He is truly your Lord then His word governs your life. Confessing His lordship while ignoring His commands is a contradiction Jesus Himself identified and confronted directly.



The question this thread is raising

The purchase is real. The blood price is real. The ownership is real. None of that is in dispute.

But the third slave was the master's slave — and was cast out. The fig tree was the master's tree — and was threatened with removal. The Exodus generation were God's own people — and did not enter the rest. The false teachers of 2 Peter 2 were bought by the Master — and brought destruction upon themselves.

If being bought alone guaranteed eternal security regardless of what followed — how do we account for any of these?
 
Bought — But Does That Guarantee Eternal Security?

There is no dispute that Jesus purchased us. The Scripture is unambiguous on this point.

1 Corinthians 6:20"For you were bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body."

1 Corinthians 7:23"You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men."

Acts 20:28"the church of God which He purchased with His own blood."

1 Peter 1:18-19"you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ."

The word translated "bought" in 1 Corinthians is the Greek agorazō — slave market language. A price was paid. Ownership transferred. No argument there.

But here is the question this thread wants to examine — does being bought, being owned, being purchased by Jesus automatically guarantee eternal security regardless of what follows?


Who exactly is "bought"?

Consider two parables.

In Matthew 25, the Parable of the Talents, a master entrusts three slaves with his resources. All three are his slaves — why else would he entrust his talents to them? The third slave buries his talent and is cast into outer darkness. He was the master's slave. He was still cast out.

In Luke 13, a man has a fig tree in his vineyard that bears no fruit. He comes looking for fruit three years running and finds none. The owner says cut it down. Note — it is his tree, in his vineyard. He is not looking for fruit from someone else's tree. The tree belongs to him. And it is still in danger of being cut down if it remains unfruitful.

In Exodus 5:1, God tells Moses to say to Pharaoh — "Let MY people go." My people. Ownership language, directly from God. And yet the writer of Hebrews uses that same generation — God's own people, redeemed from Egypt — as a warning to believers. They never entered the promised land. The rest was available. They did not enter because of unbelief.

These were not outsiders. They were not unbought people. They were owned, entrusted, called "My people" — and still did not arrive.

Being bought does not prevent denial or rebellion

2 Peter 2:1 is perhaps the most direct verse on this question —

"But false prophets also appeared among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves."

Read that carefully. Peter does not say these were people who appeared to be bought, or were bought in some lesser sense. He states plainly — the Master bought them. And in the very same verse — they denied that Master and brought swift destruction upon themselves.

This is not describing unbought people perishing. This is describing bought people who denied the One who bought them and destroyed themselves by their own action. Peter's grammar is deliberate — they brought it upon themselves. The Master did not revoke the purchase. They denied Him.

1 Corinthians 7:23 adds another dimension — "You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men." Paul is warning bought people against a real possibility. You cannot meaningfully warn someone against becoming something they are categorically incapable of becoming. The warning is real because the danger is real.


Romans 6:16 — the present tense test

"Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey — either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness."

Paul does not say you are slave to whoever purchased you. He says you are slave to whoever you obey — right now, present tense, ongoing. Slavery in Paul's framework is tested by present obedience not only by past transaction.

Which brings us to the words of Jesus Himself in Luke 6:46

"Why do you call Me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say?"

Lord. Kyrios. Master. Owner. If He is truly your Lord then His word governs your life. Confessing His lordship while ignoring His commands is a contradiction Jesus Himself identified and confronted directly.



The question this thread is raising

The purchase is real. The blood price is real. The ownership is real. None of that is in dispute.

But the third slave was the master's slave — and was cast out. The fig tree was the master's tree — and was threatened with removal. The Exodus generation were God's own people — and did not enter the rest. The false teachers of 2 Peter 2 were bought by the Master — and brought destruction upon themselves.

If being bought alone guaranteed eternal security regardless of what followed — how do we account for any of these?

You are mixing up people used by God or associated with His people with those who are truly saved and given eternal life.

Nobody disputes that people can associate with God externally and later fall away outwardly. In respect of OSAS, the real question is whether someone who is truly born again and given eternal life can lose it and perish.

Your examples do not prove that.

The Parable of the Talents does not teach loss of salvation. The third servant exposed his true condition by his complete lack of trust in and love for the master. Jesus frequently uses false servants and false professors in parables. The point is not “saved then unsaved,” but rather that fruit reveals the reality of faith.

The fig tree in Luke 13 also does not teach loss of salvation. A fruitless tree represents persistent unbelief and lack of repentance. Scripture repeatedly teaches that true faith bears fruit eventually. A tree with no fruit reveals a deeper problem with the tree itself.

The Exodus generation is probably the weakest example for arguing loss of salvation because Hebrews explicitly explains why they failed: unbelief. They were physically delivered from Egypt and outwardly part of God’s people, but many never trusted Him inwardly. Being part of Israel nationally is not identical to being spiritually saved eternally.

That same distinction exists throughout Scripture. Romans 9 says: “They are not all Israel which are of Israel.”

Your point is that “bought” does not automatically mean eternal salvation, and I agree with that distinction.

However, that does not prove that someone truly regenerated can lose salvation.

In 2 Peter 2, the issue is not simply the word “bought,” but how Scripture describes these people throughout the passage. They are consistently shown as corrupt, unrestrained, and unchanged in nature: “eyes full of adultery,” “slaves of corruption,” “a dog returns to its vomit.”

Peter is not describing transformed believers who later lost salvation. He is describing false teachers whose real character eventually became visible.

So even if “bought” can be used in a broader covenant or association sense, the context shows Peter is not referring to people who were truly born again and later became lost. He is referring to people who were never inwardly transformed in the first place, even though they were among God’s people outwardly.

You also cite Romans 6:16, but Paul is speaking about practical slavery and daily obedience, not teaching that eternal life can be repeatedly gained and lost every time a believer sins. Christians can walk carnally at times. That is why the New Testament constantly exhorts believers to abide, repent, and grow.

But exhortations and warnings do not prove true believers finally perish. Warnings are one of the means God uses to preserve believers in faith.

The bigger issue with the non-OSAS position is that it changes eternal life into conditional life.

Jesus did not say:
“I give them temporary life unless they fail later.”

He said:
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.”
 
Last edited:
you reply as if only you have the discernment needed to distinguish them.

I would ask you to explain why you say that but I know I will just get another silly low effort nonsensical line from you.

No, only God can know this. OSAS is only absolutely true and possible from God's perspective. As I have said numerous times before, only God can judge the heart and mind Jer 17:9-11. Non-OSAS assumes God can only do this when we dead and in heaven. OSAS assumes this is not time related, God can know who are His today, tomorrow and for all eternity in heaven.
 
No, only God can know this. OSAS is only absolutely true and possible from God's perspective. As I have said numerous times before, only God can judge the heart and mind Jer 17:9-11. Non-OSAS assumes God can only do this when we dead and in heaven. OSAS assumes this is not time related, God can know who are His today, tomorrow and for all eternity in heaven
Its really not that simple

Osas or not, is irrelevant to the concept of time and change in a persons life, born again or not.
 
Its really not that simple

Osas or not, is irrelevant to the concept of time and change in a persons life, born again or not.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Please can you type a logical and clearly worded rebuttal. Quoting my lines where possible.
 
lets try this again
No, only God can know this.
not true, God shares his discernment with us to show us what we need.
for example last night i was talking to my wife about my 7 year long ongoing spiritual entanglement with a woman and her daughter. i've been wondering why i've never been inspired to pray for the husband. my wife said what amounts to "he makes me feel icky"
OSAS is only absolutely true and possible from God's perspective.
this is like my darkminded homeless guy friend who says calvanism is true only from God's perspective. from our perspective we have free will, but from God's perspective we don't. I asked him, is this table we are sitting at black or white? -he said its black from our perspective, but from God's perspective it may not be. -nonsense.
As I have said numerous times before, only God can judge the heart and mind Jer 17:9-11.
yes, its not our place to judge persons. we judge person's actions. works. "you will know them by their fruit"

so for example, my wife was molested and groomed by a posessed man who's eyes turned black sometimes. the good side of the man actually believed he was rescuing her from a child molester. i have no idea how God is going to judge that man, and i don't really care either. two PI's couldn't find him.
Non-OSAS assumes God can only do this when we dead and in heaven.
not true at all. there is a plethera of opinions on how God is working continuously with and without humans involved to judge humans and hold them acccountable or not.
OSAS assumes this is not time related, God can know who are His today, tomorrow and for all eternity in heaven.

yes God can know who is his today tomorrow and for eternity

and he knows who will fall away too.
 
Back
Top