Born Again vs Saved

[stanshall]

I do not claim to be an authority on Scripture. I’m not saved either! I’ve sought the truth about God most of my life. And regardless, under the haze of drugs, oh yeah, I sinned. I don’t even know at this late stage in my life if it’s possible I can be saved.
Now, my thread title “Born Again vs Saved.”… I’m still trying to figure out.
Y’see I do volunteer work at a local Baptist mission and I see and hear things from the church people there that just doesn’t jive with the truth. The mission pastor who delivers his message to the poor coming outside…I asked him what Scripture says about divorce. Well he is on his second marriage and acted confused in answering. I asked if the words “born again” and “saved” were different. He stated they were the same. Ok. I go to the head pastor who runs the church and ask him questions: Have you ever felt God dwelling inside of you? Nope! He also has stated to me twice, he believes in “Once saved, Always saved”
trying to justify some weird comparison of a parent (God) sometimes having unruly children but loving His children nonetheless.
The mission takes in daily donations (clothes, Knick knacks) and usually the volunteers and the friends of the pastors go through the items for first pickings, before the general public is allowed in. I see the mission pastor acting as a big brother to this man who obviously is bi polar and this mission pastor allows this man to insult other people and run around like Ernest T Bass on the Andy Griffith Show. And this man is defended by the pastor when anyone complains! To me, it’s like sabotaging God’s message because others can see this weird favoritism and he does nothing to stop it except every once in a while when he tells the man to calm down. I hear people saying the words “Jesus Christ” like it’s an every day cuss word. As for the people who come inside, I suspect they are only there for the free stuff only, usually the same people outside being regulars knowing the protocol. One of them bragged to me outside, while I was taking a break, that he had a marijuana medical card. He’s not terminally ill so he had to lie to get it. And now he’s so happy because he got baptized a few days ago. I guess some people feel secure and untouchable after “going with the flow” with the others.
I visit another church, a small Pentecostal church, and I am just amazed because as soon as you walk in the door, these people actually convince me they are in the Spirit, no acting. Just praising God non stop and just flooring me to the point I know these people are saints! So this pastor, who I do respect, has a guest pastor who also just floors me as he talks about a Baptist preacher who isn’t saved because he doesn’t have The Holy Ghost. Whenever I hear stuff like this I don’t want to go back.
People in general are TRIBAL and want to belong and usually what happens is, they listen to their pastors instead of reading HIS WORD. I am the exception. I live in isolation because I detest hypocrisy, I detest it with a passion. No one fears God anymore. No one preaches repentance and denying your flesh and being commanded by God (1 Peter 1:15-16) to BE HOLY in every aspect of your life! Instead, people, in general, wish to serve 2 masters: one on Sunday, the other: themselves outside of church. Oh yep, it’s ok to go to church and go home to ingest your drugs and pursue your carnal desires. Jesus will just wink and say He will forgive me…it’s okay to mess up every once in a while…God has to change because this is 2026 and now it’s okay to be gay and read the Queen James Bible (I shudder to the anonymous authors who excised anything anti homosexual from GOD’s WORD…how God is going to react to that on Judgement Day). You better believe it when I say I am terrified of God because the preachers do not preach “The Terror of The Lord”! Instead they teach a comfortable gospel to keep their congregation coming back for more emotional spiritual security.
So readers, after my description, please tell me the REAL difference between being born again and being “saved” because I guess either I am ignorant or maybe I am stupid and can’t be fixed…

 

[bellaj]

There's a passage that says (paraphrasing) "all my children are in heaven, by past and future" .

God TELLS us that we will always be His children, we are born thru HIM! Being born again is a spiritual choice to further strengthen Our bonds, as the Father said.

He will allow your kneeling no matter what, as one of His sons.

 

[Bill]

I do not claim to be an authority on Scripture. I’m not saved either! I’ve sought the truth about God most of my life. And regardless, under the haze of drugs, oh yeah, I sinned. I don’t even know at this late stage in my life if it’s possible I can be saved.
Now, my thread title “Born Again vs Saved.”… I’m still trying to figure out.
Y’see I do volunteer work at a local Baptist mission and I see and hear things from the church people there that just doesn’t jive with the truth. The mission pastor who delivers his message to the poor coming outside…I asked him what Scripture says about divorce. Well he is on his second marriage and acted confused in answering. I asked if the words “born again” and “saved” were different. He stated they were the same. Ok. I go to the head pastor who runs the church and ask him questions: Have you ever felt God dwelling inside of you? Nope! He also has stated to me twice, he believes in “Once saved, Always saved”
trying to justify some weird comparison of a parent (God) sometimes having unruly children but loving His children nonetheless.
The mission takes in daily donations (clothes, Knick knacks) and usually the volunteers and the friends of the pastors go through the items for first pickings, before the general public is allowed in. I see the mission pastor acting as a big brother to this man who obviously is bi polar and this mission pastor allows this man to insult other people and run around like Ernest T Bass on the Andy Griffith Show. And this man is defended by the pastor when anyone complains! To me, it’s like sabotaging God’s message because others can see this weird favoritism and he does nothing to stop it except every once in a while when he tells the man to calm down. I hear people saying the words “Jesus Christ” like it’s an every day cuss word. As for the people who come inside, I suspect they are only there for the free stuff only, usually the same people outside being regulars knowing the protocol. One of them bragged to me outside, while I was taking a break, that he had a marijuana medical card. He’s not terminally ill so he had to lie to get it. And now he’s so happy because he got baptized a few days ago. I guess some people feel secure and untouchable after “going with the flow” with the others.
I visit another church, a small Pentecostal church, and I am just amazed because as soon as you walk in the door, these people actually convince me they are in the Spirit, no acting. Just praising God non stop and just flooring me to the point I know these people are saints! So this pastor, who I do respect, has a guest pastor who also just floors me as he talks about a Baptist preacher who isn’t saved because he doesn’t have The Holy Ghost. Whenever I hear stuff like this I don’t want to go back.
People in general are TRIBAL and want to belong and usually what happens is, they listen to their pastors instead of reading HIS WORD. I am the exception. I live in isolation because I detest hypocrisy, I detest it with a passion. No one fears God anymore. No one preaches repentance and denying your flesh and being commanded by God (1 Peter 1:15-16) to BE HOLY in every aspect of your life! Instead, people, in general, wish to serve 2 masters: one on Sunday, the other: themselves outside of church. Oh yep, it’s ok to go to church and go home to ingest your drugs and pursue your carnal desires. Jesus will just wink and say He will forgive me…it’s okay to mess up every once in a while…God has to change because this is 2026 and now it’s okay to be gay and read the Queen James Bible (I shudder to the anonymous authors who excised anything anti homosexual from GOD’s WORD…how God is going to react to that on Judgement Day). You better believe it when I say I am terrified of God because the preachers do not preach “The Terror of The Lord”! Instead they teach a comfortable gospel to keep their congregation coming back for more emotional spiritual security.
So readers, after my description, please tell me the REAL difference between being born again and being “saved” because I guess either I am ignorant or maybe I am stupid and can’t be fixed…

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

When a person falls in love with God, there is no need for the terror of God. Unless you want to sit on the fence and live a borderline life.

What happens in this case is you're going to experience the terror of God. LOL you will literally hear God in your mind sit there and say no don't do that. And you'll know what's right and wrong as well.

But if you fall in love with God and strive to keep that love in your heart then you will not worry about the terror of God there would be no point in that that particular part because you are in love.

Paul talks about the circumcision of the heart. To be truly in love with God it is your heart that becomes circumcised. This is what you should seek Above All Else

 

[KingJ]

I do not claim to be an authority on Scripture. I’m not saved either! I’ve sought the truth about God most of my life. And regardless, under the haze of drugs, oh yeah, I sinned. I don’t even know at this late stage in my life if it’s possible I can be saved.

It is by God's grace alone that you are alive right now. God is certainly hopeful of you repenting of your sins Luke 5:32, Psalm 51:17 and accepting Jesus for your salvation.

Now, my thread title “Born Again vs Saved.”… I’m still trying to figure out.
Y’see I do volunteer work at a local Baptist mission and I see and hear things from the church people there that just doesn’t jive with the truth. The mission pastor who delivers his message to the poor coming outside…
I asked if the words “born again” and “saved” were different. He stated they were the same.

He is correct. When you are born again you are saved.

The process of being born again and saved is as follows:

A. Repent of sins Luke 5:32, Psalm 51:17.
B. Pass God's judgement of heart and mind for sincerity Jer 17:9-12.
C. If we pass, Jesus comes into our hearts Rev 3:20.
D. When Jesus comes in, we are washed in His blood Rev 1:5 and made new creations 2 Cor 5:17. Made perfect to God. Heb 10:14. Gifted faith Rom 12:3 to believe Jesus is Lord and was raised from the dead 1 Cor 12:3, Rom 10:9.
E. We then get baptized with water. When we do this it is for a public declaration and usually the time we receive the Holy Spirit.

Born again and saved both take place at point D.

Ok. I go to the head pastor who runs the church and ask him questions: Have you ever felt God dwelling inside of you? Nope! He also has stated to me twice, he believes in “Once saved, Always saved”
trying to justify some weird comparison of a parent (God) sometimes having unruly children but loving His children nonetheless.

He is correct. And his comparison is spot on. No human is a child of God. When we get born again, we become adopted sons and daughters of the most High. Gal 4:4-7.

As for unruly. You need to understand that the criteria to become a child requires a depth of intent of love for God. God tolerates our 'venial sin' as He knows and we know that if we do sin, it will never be from a depth of intent.

You cannot hate God at the level required for Him to disown you if you once loved Him at the level for Him to graft you into His family.

This is why, scripture teaches us that we will live and reign with Jesus for all eternity.

Any person that does not support OSAS, has to by default also believe eternal bliss is a fallacy. But good luck getting that intellectual honesty out of them.

God is not a fool that grafts demons and Judas's into heaven or a fool that removes those sold out to a love of what is evil like the devil, fallen angels and all those en-route to hell.

I asked him what Scripture says about divorce. Well he is on his second marriage and acted confused in answering.

Was he to blame for it? 80% of all divorces in the USA are by woman.

The mission takes in daily donations (clothes, Knick knacks) and usually the volunteers and the friends of the pastors go through the items for first pickings, before the general public is allowed in. I see the mission pastor acting as a big brother to this man who obviously is bi polar and this mission pastor allows this man to insult other people and run around like Ernest T Bass on the Andy Griffith Show. And this man is defended by the pastor when anyone complains! To me, it’s like sabotaging God’s message because others can see this weird favoritism and he does nothing to stop it except every once in a while when he tells the man to calm down. I hear people saying the words “Jesus Christ” like it’s an every day cuss word. As for the people who come inside, I suspect they are only there for the free stuff only, usually the same people outside being regulars knowing the protocol. One of them bragged to me outside, while I was taking a break, that he had a marijuana medical card. He’s not terminally ill so he had to lie to get it. And now he’s so happy because he got baptized a few days ago. I guess some people feel secure and untouchable after “going with the flow” with the others.

Be very careful of such accusations. The sincerity of service is God's place to judge.

I by default have great respect for any priest or pastor. Heck anyone even at a mission field to help is a good person.

You need to meditate more on the fact that every pastor, priest, nun, preacher, deacon, literally everyone and anyone doing good for God......would rather be sitting at home watching ''days of our lives'''.

I visit another church, a small Pentecostal church, and I am just amazed because as soon as you walk in the door, these people actually convince me they are in the Spirit, no acting. Just praising God non stop and just flooring me to the point I know these people are saints! So this pastor, who I do respect, has a guest pastor who also just floors me as he talks about a Baptist preacher who isn’t saved because he doesn’t have The Holy Ghost. Whenever I hear stuff like this I don’t want to go back.

Baptist churches are probably the most scripturally sound protestant church you can walk into. There will definiely be a greater presence of the Holy Spirit there.

People in general are TRIBAL and want to belong and usually what happens is, they listen to their pastors instead of reading HIS WORD.

Again, be careful here. Accusing Christians when they working for God, but not to your satisfaction levels, is a slippery slope.

I am the exception. I live in isolation because I detest hypocrisy, I detest it with a passion. No one fears God anymore. No one preaches repentance and denying your flesh and being commanded by God (1 Peter 1:15-16) to BE HOLY in every aspect of your life! Instead, people, in general, wish to serve 2 masters: one on Sunday, the other: themselves outside of church. Oh yep, it’s ok to go to church and go home to ingest your drugs and pursue your carnal desires. Jesus will just wink and say He will forgive me…it’s okay to mess up every once in a while…God has to change because this is 2026 and now it’s okay to be gay and read the Queen James Bible (I shudder to the anonymous authors who excised anything anti homosexual from GOD’s WORD…how God is going to react to that on Judgement Day). You better believe it when I say I am terrified of God because the preachers do not preach “The Terror of The Lord”! Instead they teach a comfortable gospel to keep their congregation coming back for more emotional spiritual security.

I agree with you here. Homosexuality is a mortal sin. God ordained a graphic and violent death by stoning for anyone in it in the OT Lev 20:13.

It is like suggesting Paul continued to arrange for the murder of Christians after he was saved and born again. Whilst Paul does confess to battling with sins in Rom 7:15, he was by no means referring to any type of mortal sins.

There is simply no true conversion, no passing God's judgement if you are a Christian continuing in any sin unrepentant. Certainly not if they are in mortal sin. That is like a duh fact. Paul said we must remove mortal sinners calling themselves Christians from meetings 1 Cor 5:1. Paul calls these people ''Christians so called'' in 1 Cor 5:11.

So readers, after my description, please tell me the REAL difference between being born again and being “saved” because I guess either I am ignorant or maybe I am stupid and can’t be fixed…

If you are born again you are saved. Born again is when God makes you a new creation 2 Cor 5:17 and adopts you into his family Gal 4:4-7.

When this happens, you are washed by the blood of Jesus and saved.

John 8:36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

 

[joestue]

People in general are TRIBAL and want to belong and usually what happens is, they listen to their pastors instead of reading HIS WORD

In my experience all the underlying differences in denominations all come from people's insecurities, and i seem to have an ability to bring them out, for good or evil.

as for saved vs born again, people like KingJ have drowned out any alternative viewpoint on this forum with their hundreds of posts on this matter.

what i would say is there is significant confusion because words mean different things to different people.

there are many Christians who would say they were saved on such and such a date, had an encounter with Jesus/etc.. but then at a later point in their life they became born again and filled with the Holy Spirit. there is probably multiple denominations that openly teach this.*

in my experience, a small fraction of society is born again, as in the Holy Spirit is active in their hearts. I personally.. can sometimes feel this as i pass by them, even strangers. of the church going Christians i know.. i would trust maybe 3 people to accurately tell me some information if i needed it confirmed to be from God.

however the threshold Paul puts is much lower: anyone who confesses Jesus is Lord and believes God raised him from the dead will be saved. this is at least a third of the earth, and of that third half are catholic and they confess their sins to mary too.

a couple people i know have had spiritual dreams and visions in which they've seen the earth from God's point of view and its more like what Jesus said: the way is narrow and few find it.

*and there are many denominations that are cessationist on the opposite side of that idea. They limit the Holy Spirit to providing inner conviction of sin only (which is basically what John's baptism did). so they say they are saved, but they don't believe anyone is born again yet.

 

[KingJ]

as for saved vs born again, people like KingJ have drowned out any alternative viewpoint on this forum with their hundreds of posts on this matter.

what i would say is there is significant confusion because words mean different things to different people.

there are many Christians who would say they were saved on such and such a date, had an encounter with Jesus/etc.. but then at a later point in their life they became born again and filled with the Holy Spirit. there is probably multiple denominations that openly teach this.*

in my experience, a small fraction of society is born again, as in the Holy Spirit is active in their hearts. I personally.. can sometimes feel this as i pass by them, even strangers. of the church going Christians i know.. i would trust maybe 3 people to accurately tell me some information if i needed it confirmed to be from God.

however the threshold Paul puts is much lower: anyone who confesses Jesus is Lord and believes God raised him from the dead will be saved. this is at least a third of the earth, and of that third half are catholic and they confess their sins to mary too.

a couple people i know have had spiritual dreams and visions in which they've seen the earth from God's point of view and its more like what Jesus said: the way is narrow and few find it.

*and there are many denominations that are cessationist on the opposite side of that idea. They limit the Holy Spirit to providing inner conviction of sin only (which is basically what John's baptism did). so they say they are saved, but they don't believe anyone is born again yet.

Salvation and our gospel message is one message that we as Christians, God's ambassadors 2 Cor 5:20, cannot and must not get wrong.

This is not a Rom 14:5 type immaterial matter where person A can believe and teach something other than person B.

You stick to scripture and debate using only scripture. Your post reads like your opinion.

The day you give your life to the Lord should be the day your life completely and utterly changed. And if it did not, then that was not the day you gave your life to Him.

The only blurry space on this topic is where people think they are saved because they can attend church and feel the Holy Spirit's presence. God is not a fool that would wash clean, adopt and make anew someone who is merely ''putting their foot'' in Christianity.

Now the interesting thing about @stanshall 's OP is that he references priests and pastors. Real men of God. You cannot have such devotion to Christianity / God's calling, the gospel, the ministry and not be saved. That is like betting against a bad NFL player being an NFL player. Any 'NFL' player is doing loads more for the 'sport' than you or I. Fact.

99.99 % of people active and helping out in the church will be in heaven. Fact.

 

[joestue]

You cannot have such devotion to Christianity / God's calling, the gospel, the ministry and not be saved.

the historical record proves otherwise with many well known folks falling from grace and departing from the truth.

99.99 % of people active and helping out in the church will be in heaven. Fact.

its more like less than 3% of the earth.

 

[Bill]

It is by God's grace alone that you are alive right now. God is certainly hopeful of you repenting of your sins Luke 5:32, Psalm 51:17 and accepting Jesus for your salvation.



He is correct. When you are born again you are saved.

The process of being born again and saved is as follows:

A. Repent of sins Luke 5:32, Psalm 51:17.
B. Pass God's judgement of heart and mind for sincerity Jer 17:9-12.
C. If we pass, Jesus comes into our hearts Rev 3:20.
D. When Jesus comes in, we are washed in His blood Rev 1:5 and made new creations 2 Cor 5:17. Made perfect to God. Heb 10:14. Gifted faith Rom 12:3 to believe Jesus is Lord and was raised from the dead 1 Cor 12:3, Rom 10:9.
E. We then get baptized with water. When we do this it is for a public declaration and usually the time we receive the Holy Spirit.

Born again and saved both take place at point D.



He is correct. And his comparison is spot on. No human is a child of God. When we get born again, we become adopted sons and daughters of the most High. Gal 4:4-7.

As for unruly. You need to understand that the criteria to become a child requires a depth of intent of love for God. God tolerates our 'venial sin' as He knows and we know that if we do sin, it will never be from a depth of intent.

You cannot hate God at the level required for Him to disown you if you once loved Him at the level for Him to graft you into His family.

This is why, scripture teaches us that we will live and reign with Jesus for all eternity.

Any person that does not support OSAS, has to by default also believe eternal bliss is a fallacy. But good luck getting that intellectual honesty out of them.

God is not a fool that grafts demons and Judas's into heaven or a fool that removes those sold out to a love of what is evil like the devil, fallen angels and all those en-route to hell.



Was he to blame for it? 80% of all divorces in the USA are by woman.



Be very careful of such accusations. The sincerity of service is God's place to judge.

I by default have great respect for any priest or pastor. Heck anyone even at a mission field to help is a good person.

You need to meditate more on the fact that every pastor, priest, nun, preacher, deacon, literally everyone and anyone doing good for God......would rather be sitting at home watching ''days of our lives'''.



Baptist churches are probably the most scripturally sound protestant church you can walk into. There will definiely be a greater presence of the Holy Spirit there.



Again, be careful here. Accusing Christians when they working for God, but not to your satisfaction levels, is a slippery slope.



I agree with you here. Homosexuality is a mortal sin. God ordained a graphic and violent death by stoning for anyone in it in the OT Lev 20:13.

It is like suggesting Paul continued to arrange for the murder of Christians after he was saved and born again. Whilst Paul does confess to battling with sins in Rom 7:15, he was by no means referring to any type of mortal sins.

There is simply no true conversion, no passing God's judgement if you are a Christian continuing in any sin unrepentant. Certainly not if they are in mortal sin. That is like a duh fact. Paul said we must remove mortal sinners calling themselves Christians from meetings 1 Cor 5:1. Paul calls these people ''Christians so called'' in 1 Cor 5:11.



If you are born again you are saved. Born again is when God makes you a new creation 2 Cor 5:17 and adopts you into his family Gal 4:4-7.

When this happens, you are washed by the blood of Jesus and saved.

John 8:36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

Just off the wall question. If a person receives the gifts of the Holy Spirit. And misuses them. Can God revoke the gifts from that person and take them back?

If yes, why? And if no why not?

 

[KingJ]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

Just off the wall question. If a person receives the gifts of the Holy Spirit. And misuses them. Can God revoke the gifts from that person and take them back?

If yes, why? And if no why not?

Oh of course. We can use them for our own vanity.

I assume this is a lead up to lost salvation? If that's the case, then you must then also believe Sampson would have gone to eternal hell when he had a haircut?

-----------------

You must remember Bill. Protestant vs Catholic belief differences are very important on this topic. As Catholics believe in a purgatory, you can still defend God as good and just whilst still holding to a non-OSAS view. It is Protestants that can't. Those that teach non-OSAS do not teach second chances for someone who for example made a gross mistake in year 55 of servitude.

 

[KingJ]

the historical record proves otherwise with many well known folks falling from grace and departing from the truth.

There are two important things to consider on this line.

1. We can think we are saved as we are not God that does not make mistakes. Jer 17:9-11, Num 23:19

2. Many good Christians do fall. They get upset with God and lose their way. God does battle to restore them. But God, He never forgets who are His. He will not ever send to eternal damnation someone who loved Him sufficiently enough to pass His judgement of heart and mind and be made anew and adopted into His family as a son or daughter.

its more like less than 3% of the earth.

Not a chance. I feel you did not read my line properly. I said those who are active and doing good things. Not those inactive and or just visiting.

Any person applying energy and effort to support the church with money and time are a part of God's family and 99.99% of them will see heaven.

 

[joestue]

Just off the wall question. If a person receives the gifts of the Holy Spirit. And misuses them. Can God revoke the gifts from that person and take them back?

There are biblical levels of F-ups that i would say qualify as God likely never spoke through those prophets again or showed the seer anything again. For example the old man that deceives the young prophet, he gets eaten by a lion. At least in that case the old man was ashamed and sorry.
Baalam is a classic example, for money he helps a nation destroy itself. sound familiar? the easy believism preachers make millions, and they deceive many into false security of salvation they don't have.


but they eagerly serve their churches KingJ.

I joked with my wife last week about how I can't be a prophet because I haven't gotten kicked out of my hometown yet, maybe I should just tell everyone what I spiritually know about them and see what happens..

-it would be a lot of damage. A lot of damage. i might have to wait a few decades before equally interesting opportunities arrive again.
you have to wait for the correct opportunity to act, or more damage happens later.*

as for the other spiritual gifts.. i'm trying to imagine how something bad would happen if you healed someone of your own free will and authority in Christ, if God didn't tell you not to pray for them...


*I had a bit of a blunder this past year. I should have initiated a conversation with someone and offer to pray with them about a matter that hurt them 25 years ago but i didn't and i think the window for that closed.