End of Times

[Christ4Ever]

all the prophets spoke about the crucifixion of the Messiah

Many did but not all.


With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[KingJ]

Its like being in "Groundhog Day", going through the same routine day after day, Look at Matthew 28 in the context of what Christ said in Matthew 27, then look on Matthew 22 in the context of what Christ said in Matthew 21, in each case Christ emphasised that you dont have to commit the action to be guilty of the sin, thought or word are just as bad, a lustful, hate filled racist who never actually commits the act of adultery or acts on their racist hatred will still be condemned as much as the perpetrator of such acts, please try to understand this because it is quite important....... as to your questions, we are ALL guilty of sin, in thought, and word and deed, if we do not recognise and repent of our sin and try to change our ways, then i believe yes, the person thats thinking of sleeping with his fathers wife is as guilty as the one actually doing it, as for the candy store theft, thats a serious matter, i would definitely isolate someone, whatever their age, for such a heinous crime!!

Your brain is broken if you think thought and action are the same degree of evil.

And its not a case of reading Matt 22 with Matt 27. Jesus qualified His statement in Matt 5:28 FOUR verses on as he knew people like you and the devil would purposely abuse the point being made.

 

[KingJ]

Hmmm, seems to me your grasp of History is as shaky as your grasp of theology,.... Youre right in the fact that not all Nazis were SS, it was, at the start at least, a very elite organisation comprised of racially pure and ideologically correct members of the Nazi Party, ALL members of the SS were members of the Nazi Party, it was a basic requirement, as was racial purity and a fanatical allegiance to Hitler and all he stood for,........

Someone can be a Democrat voter and work in one of their departments. Does not mean they support child mutilation.

as for the "Final Solution" , it was implemented by leading Nazis, but like the T4 programme that preceded it, the killing of the Physically and Mentally disabled, once started, was driven as much by those implementing the killing as those ordering from the top, it was a joint effort, and it wasnt just implemented by the SS, the T4 programme was implemented by doctors and undertaken in Sanatoriums across Germany by the medical staff there, the mass shootings by the Einsatzgruppen were undertaken in the main by police and auxillary police units, the SS were predominant in the Death Camps, but even there personnel from other branches were present. When Germany invaded Russia in june 1941 the Einsatzgruppen went with them, their job was to secure the rear and eliminate anyone thought to be a threat to Nazi rule, which included male jews working for the Communists, this quickly expanded to shooting ALL male jews and then ALL jews regardless of age or sex. There was no order on high for this but requests from Einsatzgruppen and Army leaders in the field. The order for the first gassings at Auschwitz of Russian prisoners of war was not given by the leadership in Berlin but was an initiative by the assistant Commander. ..... as evidenced all over the world, evil feeds on itself becoming ever more powerful and destructive, which is why Christ condemned it in ALL its forms, in thought, in word and in deed.

I just cringe when I read too much of your posts. Your discernment is as sharp as a marble.

 

[Rad]

Your brain is broken if you think thought and action are the same degree of evil.

And its not a case of reading Matt 22 with Matt 27. Jesus qualified His statement in Matt 5:28 FOUR verses on as he knew people like you and the devil would purposely abuse the point being made.

I know i'm repeating myself here, but look at Matthew 5:28 in the context of Matthew 5:27 and look at Matthew 5:22 in the context of Matthew 5 21, in both cases Christ said " You have been told....., " a specific action would lead to condemnation, but then said in the following verse " But i say unto you......" and then outlined a similar thought or words that would lead to the same condemnation, the action, the thought and the word would ALL lead to being condemned......... i am not talking here about what i believe to be "degrees of Evil", but the teachings of Christ , who as my lord and Saviour, i try to follow.

 

[Rad]

Someone can be a Democrat voter and work in one of their departments. Does not mean they support child mutilation.

You are talking here of complicity, at what level does complicity begin, either through action or failing to act, i' dont know what you mean by "Child Mutilation", but ALL of us are complicit in some way in the Evils of this world, its inherent in our sinful nature, is the person that voted for a despot and tyrant responsible for their crimes, is someone working in an arms manufacturers responsible for their crimes, is a rich person responsible for the sufferings of the poor, in all cases i would say yes, but that is a judgement of their actions, Judgement as to their sin and punishment is for God alone, for he alone is righteous and knows all the facts.

I just cringe when I read too much of your posts. Your discernment is as sharp as a marble.

Well dont read them then, its your choice, but if you are reading this then i have a confession to make, you were right when you said that not all members of the SS were Nazi Party members, i was basing my reply on the original SS and the founding divisions of the Waffen SS, the fighting arm of the SS, as the war took its toll on German manpower many that were considered racially inferior were recruited into the Waffen SS, Poles, Russians, Hungarians, Ukranians and others from Nazi occupied countries, and because they were considered racially and ideologically inferior then Nazi party membership was excluded from them, so you were right in this case, my "discernment" may be " as sharp as a marble" in your opinion, but i do try to be honest, well most of the time anyway.

 

[KingJ]

I know i'm repeating myself here, but look at Matthew 5:28 in the context of Matthew 5:27 and look at Matthew 5:22 in the context of Matthew 5 21, in both cases Christ said " You have been told....., " a specific action would lead to condemnation, but then said in the following verse " But i say unto you......" and then outlined a similar thought or words that would lead to the same condemnation, the action, the thought and the word would ALL lead to being condemned......... i am not talking here about what i believe to be "degrees of Evil", but the teachings of Christ , who as my lord and Saviour, i try to follow.

No, you don't. This is the second time now that you purposely cherry pick a line from Jesus out of its context.

Answer YES or NO. Did Jesus say in Matt 5:32 that ACTUAL adultery / sexual immorality is required for divorce.

If you answer YES, you will show that you can both read and be honest. If you answer NO, you need reading lessons. If you do not answer and evade, well you would then just be repeating yourself for the third time.

People like you make my blood boil. You come across as intellectually dishonest and unteachable. I have to baby you in my posts like I do hard headed atheists.

 

[KingJ]

You are talking here of complicity, at what level does complicity begin, either through action or failing to act, i' dont know what you mean by "Child Mutilation", but ALL of us are complicit in some way in the Evils of this world, its inherent in our sinful nature, is the person that voted for a despot and tyrant responsible for their crimes, is someone working in an arms manufacturers responsible for their crimes, is a rich person responsible for the sufferings of the poor, in all cases i would say yes, but that is a judgement of their actions, Judgement as to their sin and punishment is for God alone, for he alone is righteous and knows all the facts.

Well dont read them then, its your choice, but if you are reading this then i have a confession to make, you were right when you said that not all members of the SS were Nazi Party members, i was basing my reply on the original SS and the founding divisions of the Waffen SS, the fighting arm of the SS, as the war took its toll on German manpower many that were considered racially inferior were recruited into the Waffen SS, Poles, Russians, Hungarians, Ukranians and others from Nazi occupied countries, and because they were considered racially and ideologically inferior then Nazi party membership was excluded from them, so you were right in this case, my "discernment" may be " as sharp as a marble" in your opinion, but i do try to be honest, well most of the time anyway.

Bro, your first reply to my original line was silly and you are now wanting to go down a rabbit trail you have made. The simple point I made is 100% true and sound. Having and agreeing with some racist type thoughts does not by default lead to you torturing and murdering people.

I repeat for the umpteenth time. We all have terrible and evil thoughts. That is called venial sin. Acting on them and committing sins like actual adultery, actual torture, actual murder are mortal sins that in the OT got you a graphic and violent death by stoning Leviticus 20 and in the NT removed from gatherings with harsh warnings of eternal punishment 1 Cor 5.

You need to understand Paul's rebuke to Christians that cannot judge matters better than the unsaved in 1 Cor 6:1-9.

I also firmly believe your brain rot discernment is as a result of some sin you are in or approve of that you won't disclose.

Bring it into the light and repent. Don't dumb down your conscience with all this we all sin / sin is sin / thoughts are as bad as actions, nonsense.

Ananias and Sapphira DIED ON THE SPOT as their sin was grievous. A Christian, or someone who knows the bible walks on THIN ICE with God if they continue in mortal sin.

 

[Rad]

No, you don't. This is the second time now that you purposely cherry pick a line from Jesus out of its context.

Answer YES or NO. Did Jesus say in Matt 5:32 that ACTUAL adultery / sexual immorality is required for divorce.

If you answer YES, you will show that you can both read and be honest. If you answer NO, you need reading lessons. If you do not answer and evade, well you would then just be repeating yourself for the third time.

People like you make my blood boil. You come across as intellectually dishonest and unteachable. I have to baby you in my posts like I do hard headed atheists.

I have given you the context, if you disagree or dont understand then theres nothing more i can say, yes Jesus did say that in Matthew 5:32, but you seem unable to understand that we will ALL be held responsible for our Thoughts, words and deeds as illustrated in Matthew 5 21-22 and Matthew 5 27-28, hateful, selfish and lustful thoughts and words will be condemned as much as the actions themselves, i just hope you understand this and repent, cause if youre only concerned with your actions then youre gonna have a very rude awakening come judgement day. As to your last comment about me "making your blood boil", reckon you'd do well to read Matthew 5 22 again, if you want to discuss an issue thats fine, but coming across with anger and insults aint gonna get you anywhere..

 

[Rad]

Bro, your first reply to my original line was silly and you are now wanting to go down a rabbit trail you have made. The simple point I made is 100% true and sound. Having and agreeing with some racist type thoughts does not by default lead to you torturing and murdering people.

I repeat for the umpteenth time. We all have terrible and evil thoughts. That is called venial sin. Acting on them and committing sins like actual adultery, actual torture, actual murder are mortal sins that in the OT got you a graphic and violent death by stoning Leviticus 20 and in the NT removed from gatherings with harsh warnings of eternal punishment 1 Cor 5.

You need to understand Paul's rebuke to Christians that cannot judge matters better than the unsaved in 1 Cor 6:1-9.

I also firmly believe your brain rot discernment is as a result of some sin you are in or approve of that you won't disclose.

Bring it into the light and repent. Don't dumb down your conscience with all this we all sin / sin is sin / thoughts are as bad as actions, nonsense.

Ananias and Sapphira DIED ON THE SPOT as their sin was grievous. A Christian, or someone who knows the bible walks on THIN ICE with God if they continue in mortal sin.

I think you need to step back a bit, stop with the insults and perhaps admit that sometimes you might be wrong. We're not gonna agree on this, just go round and round repeating the same, but before i call it a day, in your opinion, and it is just that, your opinion, did Christ say in Matthew 5 vs 22 that thoughts and words of anger are as bad as Killing, and did he also say that in Matthew 5:28 that whoever looks on a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart?........ as to my "Brain rot discernment being as a result of some sin i'm in or approve of that i wont disclose", you sure have a very "Christian" way of putting things, i commend you on that, your compassion and understanding is truly an example to us all, but in answer to your question, as i've said before i see myself as a wretched sinner so it may well be the case, i try to follow the teachings of Christ but am afraid that i dont have the certainty or moral conviction that you so obviously have

 

[Rad]

You really need to revisit this brother. It's not that I don't see the suffering in the world, but I know that the suffering you find is because of man themselves and the sin in their lives. What does Matthew 6:25-34 mean to you brother? Stop worrying about the temporal and seek the spiritual that is eternal.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

I said i'd get back to this, so what does Matthew 6 25-34 mean to me, to me it calls on the followers of Christ to cast off the cares of this World,. the deceit of Riches and the lusts of other things so that the seed of our faith can indeed become fruitful, to seek the Kingdom of God and to Hunger and thirst for his Righteousness, to act Justly, to love Mercy and to walk humbly, and if we are persecuted for Righteousness sake , be it by the authorities or reviled and persecuted by others then we are indeed blessed........ as to my thoughts on the video you posted about the protest inside the Church against ICE, first of all my apologies about not responding before, i just overlooked it, i found the manner of the protest too confrontational and Provoking, i can understand how enflamed the protesters were, it was a very emotional time, but at times like that its better for cooler heads to take control, by all means protest, but holding placards OUTSIDE the church would have been better , both from the view of keeping the protest peaceful and trying to get their message across, people rarely respond to shouts, insults and threats, i dont know how many of the protesters were Christians, but Christ calls on us to Love our enemies, bless those that curse us and do good to those that hate us, yeh thats hard, but whoever said that being a Christian would be easy, a life of sacrifice and self denial in the name of Love, hardly a recipe for comfort and success in this evil world

With the love of Christ Brother Nick

 

[Christ4Ever]

I said i'd get back to this, so what does Matthew 6 25-34 mean to me, to me it calls on the followers of Christ to cast off the cares of this World,. the deceit of Riches and the lusts of other things so that the seed of our faith can indeed become fruitful, to seek the Kingdom of God and to Hunger and thirst for his Righteousness, to act Justly, to love Mercy and to walk humbly, and if we are persecuted for Righteousness sake , be it by the authorities or reviled and persecuted by others then we are indeed blessed........ as to my thoughts on the video you posted about the protest inside the Church against ICE, first of all my apologies about not responding before, i just overlooked it, i found the manner of the protest too confrontational and Provoking, i can understand how enflamed the protesters were, it was a very emotional time, but at times like that its better for cooler heads to take control, by all means protest, but holding placards OUTSIDE the church would have been better , both from the view of keeping the protest peaceful and trying to get their message across, people rarely respond to shouts, insults and threats, i dont know how many of the protesters were Christians, but Christ calls on us to Love our enemies, bless those that curse us and do good to those that hate us, yeh thats hard, but whoever said that being a Christian would be easy, a life of sacrifice and self denial in the name of Love, hardly a recipe for comfort and success in this evil world

With the love of Christ Brother Nick

As you ended it, is the crux of Matthew 6:25-34. We do not seek comfort and success as this evil world sees it. These illegal immigrants are not moved by faith in what God can provide, but by what the USA, seen as a god or a breadbasket if you will, can provide them. Instead of relying on the One True God.

From the start, they’ve been breakers of the Law, hiding in the shadows because the light of truth exposes their wrongdoing. They try to bring about good through it, not realizing that only God can truly do that, and that even then, God still offers them mercy over judgment. While the world condemnation. Trying to reverse this order is wrong brother. No matter how unfair a law might seem, as believers we should live within its boundaries, so we’re seen as Children of the Most High rather than as opponents of order, which, in truth, is what the world around us often is—the opposite of what is good.

Don’t focus on changing the whole world, because that’s not something we can do. Start with one person, guiding them so they can know the One True God through Jesus Christ, His Son. That’s how we do what He’s called us to do. He has already overcome the world! There is victory in Jesus, and no matter how it may look, it’s found in Him alone.

With the Love of Christ Jesus, Brother Steve.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Twistie]

Bro, your first reply to my original line was silly and you are now wanting to go down a rabbit trail you have made. The simple point I made is 100% true and sound. Having and agreeing with some racist type thoughts does not by default lead to you torturing and murdering people.

I repeat for the umpteenth time. We all have terrible and evil thoughts. That is called venial sin. Acting on them and committing sins like actual adultery, actual torture, actual murder are mortal sins that in the OT got you a graphic and violent death by stoning Leviticus 20 and in the NT removed from gatherings with harsh warnings of eternal punishment 1 Cor 5.

You need to understand Paul's rebuke to Christians that cannot judge matters better than the unsaved in 1 Cor 6:1-9.

I also firmly believe your brain rot discernment is as a result of some sin you are in or approve of that you won't disclose.

Bring it into the light and repent. Don't dumb down your conscience with all this we all sin / sin is sin / thoughts are as bad as actions, nonsense.

Ananias and Sapphira DIED ON THE SPOT as their sin was grievous. A Christian, or someone who knows the bible walks on THIN ICE with God if they continue in mortal sin.

For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water..

Rad is blind and deaf at this time in his walk l..now can he be turned sure if that is what is in the Will of the Lord n if it is in the Lords will The Lord will cure him on His time..

Ya gonna drive ya self bonkers trying to make him hear what he can't hear..I too have a tendency of doing this.. trying to get others to see..but we can not make them see only One can..as I say not my monkey not my circus so I just go pray for those who belong to Him to have the Spiritual strength to receive the Truth when He goes to them..

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

But his delight is in the law of the Lord; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

Hope all well with ya..hope ya keeping warm too!

(⁠≧⁠▽⁠≦⁠)

 

[Rad]

Again, both sides!!! It appears that you believe that Jesus disregarded the rich! You are mistaken! He spoke to and about the rich, as does the rest of scripture.

First of all, my apologies for being 1 or 2 messages behind in answering, its partly lack of time but also i want to reflect on what people are saying, no, i dont believe that Jesus disregarded the rich, or that he doesnt love them, what he did do however is to condemn them on numerous times, the story of the Rich Ruler, or the parable of Lazarus and the rich man or in Lukes version of the "Sermon on the Mount", he warned of the deceitfulness of riches and to not store them up on Earth, oh no, Jesus didnt disregard the rich, they were one of his principal targets of condemnation.

However, it does not say it's your job to force others to comply if they don't want to help! Move on brother Steve. For forcing anyone won't get it done! Look at the Socialist/Communists countries, or the Dictatorships out there; are they not pushing their problems, that they are unable to solve to others? Look at Matthew 26:11. Your focus needs to be Jesus!!!

I cant force anyone to comply with my way of thinking, alls i can do, like we all do , is offer my view of Christs teaching but always with the humility that i may be wrong, and listen to others point of view and always be willing to change my mind if i agree with them. Our faith should not be cast in stone but always open to the voice of God speaking through others. And we will indeed "always have the poor with us", because of the hardness of mens hearts, their greed and selfishness and their indifference to the suffering of others. And my focus is on Jesus, his words and his teachings to melt the hardness of my own heart and let the Love, Compassion and Justice of Christ flow through it.

For those that won't or do for that matter, there will be a day of accounting coming.

There will be a day of Accounting for ALL of us, and as Christ said in Matthew 7 22-23, Many will say "Lord Lord,.... but i will say i know you not", if we do not build our lives upon the rock of Christs teaching and do as he commands then our lives will indeed be washed away by the flood to come

You say we should not accept Evil, which I agree with, but you don't fight Evil with Evil Brother!

I dont believe that i have ever advocated fighting Evil with Evil, and if i have then that was not my intention. The Dark cannot drive out the Dark, only Light can do that, we should offer no man Evil for Evil , but try to be a beacon of Light in the darkness where our good works will be seen by men and our Father glorified.

Here is where the issue comes in between us. You actually do believe that the lord would have us break the laws of the country that we live in. I do not. No matter how difficult it maybe, or appears to be to follow, you do so, and by doing so you are being faithful to Him. In this country you have a vote, and elect officials that in prayerful consideration will be Godly men & women who win those elections and adhere to God's Word. If it doesn't work out that way, you don't subvert the legal authority that God has put in place. Because you are wrong even when you think that you are not. You believe you can stop hunger, suffering from occurring through violence? You say it's not violence, but peaceful protests. If that were true, no body would be dying!!! If you resist peacefully, not obstructing what Law Enforcement is given to do, there would be no problems, and their consciousness would be convicted because of it. Instead, the opposite behavior that is happening, is hardening their hearts!

When has there ever been a Godly Government, as Christ said " Who calls me good, no one is good except my Father in heaven", ALL governments and man made institutions are corrupt and Evil for that is the nature of humanity, if you recognise that then you can see the truth in how the Devil was able to offer Christ ALL the Kingdoms of this world because as he said, "They are mine to do with as i will", ...... our commitment to Love and compassion should be an ever present part of our Christian Lives, and where we see Injustice and Evil we should fight against it using the weapons of Love and Compassion, and if that means being persecuted and reviled by others then thats the price we pay for our hunger and Thirst for Righteousness, " Blessed are those that are persecuted for Righteousness sake , for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven", or do you believe that Christ would have us follow unjust and Evil laws just because they have been passed by a corrupt and Evil government. I've asked this question before but tbh cant recall your answer, In Nazi Germany it was a "Crime" to hide a Jew or not tell the Authorities where they were hiding, so when Anne Frank was arrested in 1943 and sent to Auschwitz, the ones that concealed her were also deported to a concentration camp but the person that told the authorities where she was hiding was rewarded, in that situation what would you have done, obeyed the law, or broke it?.

The real difference is that you have nothing against force in trying to convince others that you are right. I do not. I present my case, and God willing they will see the truth of it, and their hearts softened to what is asked of them. I do not use volatile words to make my points. Calling duly assigned officers/agents of the government, who have been ordered to perform their duties, is not going to convince anyone to change, except maybe the ignorant, who believe that violence is an option. You use those words all the time brother. Thinking that somehow here with a Godly audience you would convince them of your righteousness by doing so. No, they see through those trigger words, that the world and MSM uses to lead sadly the less understanding of God's Word in its entirety to doing what is wrong.

I'm not trying to convince anyone here of my words, just how i interpret the teachings of Christ and his call of Justice, Love and Compassion. And i have everything against the use of force to protest against evil, unless of course you regard speaking out as "force". And you seem to put put great faith in the "duly assigned officers of the Government", to me they are just men, and their motives and actions are as reprehensible as the rest of us, just because someone has a badge or a uniform doesnt give them any lesser or greater immunity from sin, I would be interested to know just what ive said to seemingly convince you that i'm in favour of violence, turn the other cheek, love your enemies, bless those that curse you and do good to them that hate you are the words of our lord and Saviour and while i dont always succeed, i do at least try to follow them, however hard that may be.

Yeah, you'd take the better life, over helping to change it for others by staying where you are and making it happen there. Now speak to me of righteousness, sacrifice, and doing God's will even if the costs is all you have.

I was being honest, and i think if you were to spend any length of time in some of these countries with your family and someone offered you the chance to escape the poverty, violence and hopelessness then you might view things differently. Its easy to take the moral high ground when living in relative wealth and security, and isnt that how the US was founded, by a group of people leaving persecution and seeking a better life, or do you condemn them as well for not staying where they were and trying to change their own country.

Asked before if in a different way, and it was answered. You think God loves one more than the other?

As ive said, i think God loves us ALL, the rich, the poor, the outcast, the marginalised, the stranger, the hungry, where differences arise is how Gods judgement is going to fall, "Blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of heaven, but woe to you that are rich for you have received your consolation". ......... i've got to finish here i'm afraid, but will answer the rest of your post , as always i appreciate your thoughts and the questioning of my beliefs, for it is only in questioning that we learn.

with the love of Christ Brother Nick

Steve

Welcome to Socialism/Communism! Tell me that it's worked so well everywhere else it has been tried, especially for the believing Christians! They persecute us more than anyone else does! Sorry no thank-you. It's the old adage about "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime" You take care of the problem for one day brother, but ultimately, it's their ruin!


Did you even read 2 Thessalonians 3:10 that was making the point to what I was saying? I guess not. Maybe, it's not in your bible.
It is your role to discern rightly the Word of God in its entirety and not piecemeal it.



I sure hope you do Brother Steve.
We want so much to never see suffering or deprivation, for after all we have hearts that have been turned from stone to flesh as believers in Christ. So, don't think those who disagree with your stances do not understand or believe in the Word of God.

Take a look a Job, and see what he went through, and think would it have ended the same, if his focus had not been on God, but rather his circumstances? How would you have responded to him, as he was going through these trials?

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother Steve.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[KingJ]

I think you need to step back a bit, stop with the insults and perhaps admit that sometimes you might be wrong. We're not gonna agree on this, just go round and round repeating the same, but before i call it a day, in your opinion, and it is just that, your opinion, did Christ say in Matthew 5 vs 22 that thoughts and words of anger are as bad as Killing, and did he also say that in Matthew 5:28 that whoever looks on a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart?........ as to my "Brain rot discernment being as a result of some sin i'm in or approve of that i wont disclose", you sure have a very "Christian" way of putting things, i commend you on that, your compassion and understanding is truly an example to us all, but in answer to your question, as i've said before i see myself as a wretched sinner so it may well be the case, i try to follow the teachings of Christ but am afraid that i dont have the certainty or moral conviction that you so obviously have

Ok, so you take option 3, once more evading. You ask me to agree with Matt 5:22 as you rip Matt 5:32 from your bible. I agree with all scripture. Scripture sheds light on scripture. Any who teach should be aware of this fact. Teaching half truths can truly stumble people. In your case, you do it intentionally as you have been given Matt 5:32 to add to Matt 5:28, yet you ignore it. That is false teaching.

Many and I mean many false teachers and Christian ''wannabe's'' teach that sin is sin, full stop. Scripture is crystal clear that A. Sin is sin and B. Sin has degrees. We need to make sure to teach both at the same time. There are many more scriptures other than Matt 5:32 that need to be considered on the topic. I have listed them in the OP here: Degrees of sin - Poll

I can just imagine someone like you standing before God one day. ''God I could not stop my repeated mortal sin. I kept quoting and reading only those lines in scripture that say we are all sinners. Some think about doing, I actually did it and encouraged others to also do it. There was some random guy on the internet that kept quoting how you ordained a graphic and violent death by stoning for certain sins, but I chose to troll him and ignore him. You know my heart. Somewhere in it I do love you, cough cough cough cough. Please welcome me into heaven.'''

I can see God staring at you in disbelief. He will look behind Him at all in heaven and ask if anyone, literally anyone wants you as a neighbour. Someone who taught half truths and refused to concede to the fact that mortal sin shows a heart that does not in anyway shape or form even try hate what is evil as Rom 12:9 tells us to. Nobody will want you as a neighbour.

False teachers have only Matt 18:6 to look forward to - If anyone causes one of these little ones, those who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

 

[Jesua888]

Any person that does not take care of their own is worse then a heathen..

Idk where you are from perhaps your one of them bleeding hearts that think the American people need to support who ever is to lazy to work..The Living God is one of order not chaos..
We are told to obey the laws of the land so when one comes unlawfully they r not following order..
Are you in UK where all them lil girls are being raped while grown men stand by and watch??..

I'm just curious where your morals come from are they from the ways of the world of chaos or are they from Above??..

♡⁠(⁠>⁠ ⁠ਊ⁠ ⁠<⁠)⁠♡

• 1 Peter 2:13–17, where Peter urges believers to submit to every human institution for the Lord’s sake, including rulers and authorities.
• Matthew 22:21, where Jesus says, "Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s," affirming the principle of paying taxes and respecting civil authority.
• Acts 5:29, which establishes the exception: "We must obey God rather than men" when human laws contradict God’s commands.

These verses collectively teach that obedience to civil government is expected, unless a law directly conflicts with a higher moral or spiritual duty to God.

 

[Bill]

As you ended it, is the crux of Matthew 6:25-34. We do not seek comfort and success as this evil world sees it. These illegal immigrants are not moved by faith in what God can provide, but by what the USA, seen as a god or a breadbasket if you will, can provide them. Instead of relying on the One True God.

From the start, they’ve been breakers of the Law, hiding in the shadows because the light of truth exposes their wrongdoing. They try to bring about good through it, not realizing that only God can truly do that, and that even then, God still offers them mercy over judgment. While the world condemnation. Trying to reverse this order is wrong brother. No matter how unfair a law might seem, as believers we should live within its boundaries, so we’re seen as Children of the Most High rather than as opponents of order, which, in truth, is what the world around us often is—the opposite of what is good.

Don’t focus on changing the whole world, because that’s not something we can do. Start with one person, guiding them so they can know the One True God through Jesus Christ, His Son. That’s how we do what He’s called us to do. He has already overcome the world! There is victory in Jesus, and no matter how it may look, it’s found in Him alone.

With the Love of Christ Jesus, Brother Steve.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

God gives us the ability to plant the seeds, but it is God who causes the plant to grow and then he sends us back out to harvest.

 

[Twistie]

• 1 Peter 2:13–17, where Peter urges believers to submit to every human institution for the Lord’s sake, including rulers and authorities.
• Matthew 22:21, where Jesus says, "Give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s," affirming the principle of paying taxes and respecting civil authority.
• Acts 5:29, which establishes the exception: "We must obey God rather than men" when human laws contradict God’s commands.

These verses collectively teach that obedience to civil government is expected, unless a law directly conflicts with a higher moral or spiritual duty to God.

I know what the Lord says..I talk to Him everyday.. so what is it you are trying to say?

Hope all's well!

ʘ⁠‿⁠ʘ

 

[Rad]

Welcome to Socialism/Communism! Tell me that it's worked so well everywhere else it has been tried, especially for the believing Christians! They persecute us more than anyone else does! Sorry no thank-you. It's the old adage about "Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime" You take care of the problem for one day brother, but ultimately, it's their ruin!

I never mentioned Socialism or Communism, why is it Socialism or Communism to want a more just and equitable world, a world where theres not a billion people living in abject poverty on a few $'s a day while the privileged few enjoy lives of comparative wealth and comfort, a world where 15,000 children dont die every day from malnutrition and disease, a world where nearly 800 million people dont have access to clean water and over 2 billion have no access to improved sanitation, where medical services and education are priced out of reach of the poor and where their daily struggle to survive encompasses horrors that we can only imagine in our worst nightmares, why is wanting those lives to be free of suffering and death equated with Socialism and Communism when Christ called on his followers to Love their neighbours as themselves and treat others as they'd want to be treated,....... how can we have the Love of God within us if we see someone in need, have the means to help yet refuse to do so and continue with our lives of plenty. If we see Christ in the lives of the poor and marginalised how many times can we ignore his need yet still claim to love and follow him?. Why is it Socialism or Communism to campaign against the systems and institutions, the selfishness and greed, that make the world the Hell that it is today?. It seems to me that Christ demands nothing less of us than being the Beacons of Justice and Compassion in a very dark world, for if we dont fight against Injustice and suffering then by our very silence we are complicit in it.

Did you even read 2 Thessalonians 3:10 that was making the point to what I was saying? I guess not. Maybe, it's not in your bible.
It is your role to discern rightly the Word of God in its entirety and not piecemeal it.

Yes i read Thessalonians and wondered how that fits in with Christs depiction of the Day of Judgement in the "Sheep and the Goats", Matthew 25 vs 31-46, for there is nothing there about whether the recipient of our Love and Compassion is worthy or not, in fact those in need, for whatever reason they are in need, are depicted as representing Christ himself, are we to turn away Christ because we view them as being idle?, also in Matthew 5 vs 42 Christ says" Give to him that asks , and from him that would borrow of you turn not thou away", are you saying that Christ got it wrong and meant to add the caveat, " as long as theyre not idle"?, or do you think that the Commandment " love your neighbour as yourself" and "treat others as you'd want to be treated" only applies to those you consider worthy of your Love and Compassion. Alls i can say is that when theres an apparent anomaly or contradiction in the Bible, which i put down to my ignorance, then i always choose , as a Christian , to follow Christs teachings, and until someone can explain the matter further will continue to give to those in need regardless of their circumstances.

I sure hope you do Brother Steve.
We want so much to never see suffering or deprivation, for after all we have hearts that have been turned from stone to flesh as believers in Christ. So, don't think those who disagree with your stances do not understand or believe in the Word of God.

I dont think that at all Brother Nick, we have a different view of Christs teachings and discussing them here , on this forum, enables us all hopefully to see things clearer and live our lives as Christ wants us to. And to do so in a spirit of Christian compassion and tolerance is greatly appreciated.

Take a look a Job, and see what he went through, and think would it have ended the same, if his focus had not been on God, but rather his circumstances? How would you have responded to him, as he was going through these trials?

I would have tried to respond to Job with the same Love and Compassion Christ demands of all his followers. I see no distinction on having my focus on God and on trying to bring his Love into this Suffering World. The 2 are synonymous, for when Christ was asked in Mark 12 28-34, "What is the greatest commandment" he replied, " The first of all commandments is To Love the lord your God with all your Heart, Soul and mind ...... and the second is likewise, thou shalt love your neighbour as yourself", Our Love of God and the circumstances of our Neighbour, particularly those suffering and in need, cannot be separated, read Matthew 25 vs31-46 again, to see how Christ is here on Earth , living amongst us in the poor and marginalised. "For what Does the Lord require of us, but to act justly, and to love Mercy and to walk humbly with him".

With the love of Christ Jesus Brother Nick

Steve

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother Steve.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Christ4Ever]

my apologies for being 1 or 2 messages behind in answering

No problem. I understand how it goes.

I cant force anyone to comply with my way of thinking, alls i can do, like we all do , is offer my view of Christs teaching but always with the humility that i may be wrong, and listen to others point of view and always be willing to change my mind if i agree with them.

Actually, you may not think that you are, but in truth you are. There are different ways of trying to illicit compliance with your thoughts/beliefs from others. One of them, is supporting protesters/organizations that are trying to get others they disagree with to change the stance of the government. I've mentioned it before, which you previously said you understood, for we do the same in supporting those who would allow for the spread of the Gospel while moving away from those who do not.

Ultimately it is God's Will to be done, but there is leeway for the direction we move in when it is according to His Word, without being contrary to it. Still, as I've said before, and will always continue to say, it must be the entirety of His Word and not taking a piece here or there in order to make a separate doctrine of belief to follow. For doing one part will not conflict with the other part of scripture. If done rightly it can't but follow what is best for us to His Will in Christ Jesus.

Our faith should not be cast in stone but always open to the voice of God speaking through others. And we will indeed "always have the poor with us", because of the hardness of mens hearts, their greed and selfishness and their indifference to the suffering of others. And my focus is on Jesus, his words and his teachings to melt the hardness of my own heart and let the Love, Compassion and Justice of Christ flow through it.

I completely agree. Yet it is in understanding that the change we seek to happen in others to bring them to this understanding is by the act of the Holy Spirit, as it has been in us. Which goes hand in hand with the presentation of the Gospel, for it is through Him first that the changes happen in our life, and the lives of those who yet do not know Him. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not blind to the appearances of righteousness, and that God will use the ungodly to have His will done, but it is not our business to determine the how it is done, though we might be the vessel by which it is done.

For those that won't or do for that matter, there will be a day of accounting coming.

There will be a day of Accounting for ALL of us, and as Christ said in Matthew 7 22-23, Many will say "Lord Lord,.... but i will say i know you not", if we do not build our lives upon the rock of Christs teaching and do as he commands then our lives will indeed be washed away by the flood to come

You say we should not accept Evil, which I agree with, but you don't fight Evil with Evil Brother!

I dont believe that i have ever advocated fighting Evil with Evil, and if i have then that was not my intention. The Dark cannot drive out the Dark, only Light can do that, we should offer no man Evil for Evil , but try to be a beacon of Light in the darkness where our good works will be seen by men and our Father glorified.

Ah, again it does not have to be your intention, but when you are dealing with the unbeliever, that is what happens. It is exactly as you say in mentioning the above scripture in Matthew.

When has there ever been a Godly Government, as Christ said " Who calls me good, no one is good except my Father in heaven"

Oh, no, no, no! Let me stop you there. You create your own argument to make a claim to debate on. lol However, I will play along for the moment.

I’m sure you agree that all authority is given by God, so are you suggesting that the authority He grants isn’t good, or that the outcome changes when humans put it into practice? I state this, because yu are really conflating two different things here brother. When the Nation rejected Jesus, did it mean that every person did also? Think long and hard on this, because that is what you are saying here.

USA was established as a Nation based on trying to implement Godly laws to govern, a Godly people. Like John Adams (2nd President of the US) said: "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. Is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." No other country can say this! Except maybe Israel.

if you recognise that then you can see the truth in how the Devil was able to offer Christ ALL the Kingdoms of this world because as he said, "They are mine to do with as i will"

At the moment in time, it was a statement that would be hard to argue with. However, when Jesus died on the Cross and He ascended afterwards to the Throne, did the devil continue to rule or should we say the same sway he did before? (Matt 28:18; John 12:31; Heb 2:14)

our commitment to Love and compassion should be an ever present part of our Christian Lives, and where we see Injustice and Evil we should fight against it using the weapons of Love and Compassion, and if that means being persecuted and reviled by others then thats the price we pay for our hunger and Thirst for Righteousness, " Blessed are those that are persecuted for Righteousness sake , for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven", or do you believe that Christ would have us follow unjust and Evil laws just because they have been passed by a corrupt and Evil government. I've asked this question before but tbh cant recall your answer, In Nazi Germany it was a "Crime" to hide a Jew or not tell the Authorities where they were hiding, so when Anne Frank was arrested in 1943 and sent to Auschwitz, the ones that concealed her were also deported to a concentration camp but the person that told the authorities where she was hiding was rewarded, in that situation what would you have done, obeyed the law, or broke it?.

From here we continue to go in a circle. You think that it is righteous to not follow the laws that conflict with scripture. So, the ensuing results of though creating harm, and even death are acceptable and not be laid at your feet. I do not. Remember as a point, that slavery existed and continue to exist for many years afterwards, and still exists to this day. Scripture told both to work within it, and to treat each other as brethren even while not speaking about ending it. Yet, for the sake of righteousness existed then so why was it not actively resisted and worked against by the believers? I guess according to your standard they were wrong in not doing so!

However, again with all that being said from your part & mine, what does that have to do with illegal immigration? Work to get the laws changed, but you do not do that by breaking the laws in place. Doing so spreads chaos and leads only to unrighteous behavior, which you can’t justify, no matter how much you twist scripture from its true purpose.

I'm not trying to convince anyone here of my words, just how i interpret the teachings of Christ and his call of Justice, Love and Compassion. And i have everything against the use of force to protest against evil, unless of course you regard speaking out as "force". And you seem to put put great faith in the "duly assigned officers of the Government", to me they are just men, and their motives and actions are as reprehensible as the rest of us, just because someone has a badge or a uniform doesnt give them any lesser or greater immunity from sin, I would be interested to know just what ive said to seemingly convince you that i'm in favour of violence, turn the other cheek, love your enemies, bless those that curse you and do good to them that hate you are the words of our lord and Saviour and while i dont always succeed, i do at least try to follow them, however hard that may be.

Yes they are just men but duly sworn to uphold the law of the land. While you side and promote the ungodly, lawless people, who have chosen to do whatever they can get away with their behavior regardless of what the law says. Trying to correlate this to Nazi Germany or any other regime is wrong. The people coming into the US illegally could have done it another way. They had other options and places to go, but instead they did it the wrong way, and are paying the consequences for their actions, and because you justify them doing it, the blame becomes also yours for any resulting suffering/death. Don't think you are excused because you are not in favor of the violence that has happened. If you didn’t see that ungodly people could lead to this kind of behavior, then that oversight is on you. The same scripture you use to justify your actions also talks about the depravity of man and their behavior.

I was being honest, and i think if you were to spend any length of time in some of these countries with your family and someone offered you the chance to escape the poverty, violence and hopelessness then you might view things differently. Its easy to take the moral high ground when living in relative wealth and security, and isnt that how the US was founded, by a group of people leaving persecution and seeking a better life, or do you condemn them as well for not staying where they were and trying to change their own country.

You know little about me brother. My parents were immigrants, and I'm 1st generation American. I remember waiting with my dad in food lines, swallowing his pride so his family could have food, while living in a roach/rat infested building across from condemned buildings along the docks of the Hudson River (slums). I'm sure others had it even worse than I did, and I know throughout the world there are those even worse off. I've seen it. I don't have to live it to know. However, I also don't have live it to know that when you knowingly break the law, no matter the reason, you will suffer consequences for doing so. You would absolve them from it, but it is not your place to do so; Christian or not.

With the Love of Christ Jesus, brother.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Christ4Ever]

I never mentioned Socialism or Communism, why is it Socialism or Communism to want a more just and equitable world, a world where theres not a billion people living in abject poverty on a few $'s a day while the privileged few enjoy lives of comparative wealth and comfort, a world where 15,000 children dont die every day from malnutrition and disease, a world where nearly 800 million people dont have access to clean water and over 2 billion have no access to improved sanitation, where medical services and education are priced out of reach of the poor and where their daily struggle to survive encompasses horrors that we can only imagine in our worst nightmares, why is wanting those lives to be free of suffering and death equated with Socialism and Communism when Christ called on his followers to Love their neighbours as themselves and treat others as they'd want to be treated,....... how can we have the Love of God within us if we see someone in need, have the means to help yet refuse to do so and continue with our lives of plenty. If we see Christ in the lives of the poor and marginalised how many times can we ignore his need yet still claim to love and follow him?. Why is it Socialism or Communism to campaign against the systems and institutions, the selfishness and greed, that make the world the Hell that it is today?. It seems to me that Christ demands nothing less of us than being the Beacons of Justice and Compassion in a very dark world, for if we dont fight against Injustice and suffering then by our very silence we are complicit in it.

Because when you take from others who have worked for it, to give to others who have not. That's what you have.
You think that the US is not helping, or not helping to the extent that you think they should be? I'm sure it's the latter part.
You want to talk about inequities of the different systems. Well, go for it. Tell me the perfect system and how you can make it happen, and I'll listen brother Steve. Until, then don't be talking about what one has, and what another does not, when the eternal soul is being neglected.

No, the enemy is Satan and sin. If you haven't figured that out by now, then you will continue to fight the wrong battles.

Yes i read Thessalonians and wondered how that fits in with Christs depiction of the Day of Judgement in the "Sheep and the Goats", Matthew 25 vs 31-46, for there is nothing there about whether the recipient of our Love and Compassion is worthy or not, in fact those in need, for whatever reason they are in need, are depicted as representing Christ himself, are we to turn away Christ because we view them as being idle?, also in Matthew 5 vs 42 Christ says" Give to him that asks , and from him that would borrow of you turn not thou away", are you saying that Christ got it wrong and meant to add the caveat, " as long as theyre not idle"?, or do you think that the Commandment " love your neighbour as yourself" and "treat others as you'd want to be treated" only applies to those you consider worthy of your Love and Compassion. Alls i can say is that when theres an apparent anomaly or contradiction in the Bible, which i put down to my ignorance, then i always choose , as a Christian , to follow Christs teachings, and until someone can explain the matter further will continue to give to those in need regardless of their circumstances.

2 Thess 3:10 speaks to an orderly method of helping. What you are suggesting is anything but that! There is a system in place that will help, but you don't agree with it, and so trash it, and create more chaos/harm by doing so.

I would have tried to respond to Job with the same Love and Compassion Christ demands of all his followers. I see no distinction on having my focus on God and on trying to bring his Love into this Suffering World. The 2 are synonymous, for when Christ was asked in Mark 12 28-34, "What is the greatest commandment" he replied, " The first of all commandments is To Love the lord your God with all your Heart, Soul and mind ...... and the second is likewise, thou shalt love your neighbour as yourself", Our Love of God and the circumstances of our Neighbour, particularly those suffering and in need, cannot be separated, read Matthew 25 vs31-46 again, to see how Christ is here on Earth , living amongst us in the poor and marginalised. "For what Does the Lord require of us, but to act justly, and to love Mercy and to walk humbly with him".

I would say it is the methodology that you would allow for that I have a problem with. Our God is not a God of chaos but of order. Even when the order is not the way you would do it, it should still be followed until a better one is put in place. That is where we disagree.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><