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The promise land to Israel

Dave M

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Oct 2, 2015
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Joshua 21
43..And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which He swore to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it and dwelt therein.

44..And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that He swore unto their fathers. And there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.

45..There failed not aught of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel. All came to pass.


I read the above scripture and wonder how so many people believe that God has not fulfilled his promise to Israel about the promise land to Abraham and Jacob and Isaac.
Many say Israel has never dwelt in all the land God promised them so it will happen at some point.


Yet God word says it all came to pass, Gods word says he gave all the land to them, not partial land like I hear so many teaching today.
 
Joshua 21
43..And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which He swore to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it and dwelt therein.

44..And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that He swore unto their fathers. And there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.

45..There failed not aught of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel. All came to pass.


I read the above scripture and wonder how so many people believe that God has not fulfilled his promise to Israel about the promise land to Abraham and Jacob and Isaac.
Many say Israel has never dwelt in all the land God promised them so it will happen at some point.


Yet God word says it all came to pass, Gods word says he gave all the land to them, not partial land like I hear so many teaching today.
"Israel" are the obedient children of the LORD, not the synagogue of Satan (Revelation 2:9, 3:9) who persecute Christians unto murder, like censoring and crucifying Jesus. The political state bearing that sacred name of "Israel" is anti-Christ, and their governing agency's motto is to bear false witness, like their father the Devil. Like the Satanic officials of your local government and infiltrated churches.

The Lord Jesus Christ says, "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5); only the penitent obedient Christian will be with the LORD in Paradise.

(KJV) Zephaniah chapter 2:

1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired;


2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you.

3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.
 
Because there is both evil jews and good jews, just like there is evil supposedly christians and good christians. I wish the jews of the nation of Israel would put out a list of the most evil jews annually, like the two soros men, father and son. It would go a long way towards rectifying the mindset of many that want to lump all the jews into the evil catagory.
 
43..And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which He swore to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it and dwelt therein.

44..And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that He swore unto their fathers. And there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.

45..There failed not aught of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel. All came to pass.


I read the above scripture and wonder how so many people believe that God has not fulfilled his promise to Israel about the promise land to Abraham and Jacob and Isaac.
Many say Israel has never dwelt in all the land God promised them so it will happen at some point.


Yet God word says it all came to pass, Gods word says he gave all the land to them, not partial land like I hear so many teaching today.
God changed Jacob's name to Israel after Jacob wrestled with a divine being—often interpreted as an angel or a preincarnate appearance of Christ—at Peniel, where he refused to let go until he received a blessing. The new name, Israel, means "struggles with God" or "God prevails," reflecting Jacob's perseverance and spiritual transformation. God explicitly stated the reason for the name change: "You have struggled with God and with men and have overcome" (Genesis 32:28). This event marked a pivotal moment in Jacob’s life, symbolizing his transition from a deceiver and supplanter—traits reflected in his original name, which means "supplanter" or "heel-catcher"—to a man who now relied on God’s grace and power.

The name change was reaffirmed later at Bethel, where God confirmed the covenant promises made to Abraham and Isaac, now passed on to Jacob, and formally established him as the patriarch of a future nation. From that point on, Jacob was frequently called Israel, though both names are used interchangeably throughout Scripture. The name Israel became not only a personal designation but also the name of the nation descended from Jacob, symbolizing the people of God chosen to fulfill His redemptive plan.

1. Deuteronomy 11: 26-28​

"See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you today, and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the Lord your God, but turn aside from the way that I am commanding you today, to go after other gods.”

Oh! could it be that man has manipulated so much about the new land of "Israel" to further his own agenda?
 
I think the biggest myth I hear about the promise land was that is was a unconditional promise, and that it is unfilled, we see in Joshua 21 -45 that all came to pass that the Lord God has spoken about the promise land, so therefore it has been fulfilled.

Joshua 21 -45
Not one of all the LORD’s good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.


so then the question is why do they not posses all the land this day? many say Gods has not fulfilled his word yet, but will at a later time in history. But to me it is clear as day the land promise had conditions,, and if those conditions were not kept, God would drive them out of the land, thus why they do not posses all the land today.

Joshua 21-10
14. “And now I am about to go the way of all the earth, and you know in your hearts and souls, all of you, that not one word has failed of all the good thing that the Lord your God promised concerning you. All have come to pass for you; not one of them has failed.

15. But just as all the good things that the
Lord your God promised concerning you have been fulfilled for you, so the Lord will bring upon you all the evil things, until he has destroyed you from off this good land that the Lord your God has given you,

16. if you transgress the covenant of the Lord your God, which he commanded you, and go and serve other gods and bow down to them. Then the anger of the Lord will be kindled against you,
and you shall perish quickly from off the good land that he has given to you.”
 

Do Gentile Believers Become Jews? A Biblical Examination​


The New Testament is clear that through Christ, Gentiles have been granted access to the covenant promises of Israel. The "dividing wall of hostility" has been broken down (Ephesians 2:14). Jews and Gentiles can fellowship together, worship together, and share in the blessings of Abraham.


But does this mean Gentiles become Jews? Are the categories erased entirely, or do they persist even within the unity of the body of Christ?


I believe the scriptures consistently maintain the distinction — even while celebrating the unity. Here's why.




The Distinction Goes Back to the Beginning​


Joshua 8:30-35:


At the covenant renewal ceremony at Mount Ebal and Mount Gerizim, Joshua assembled all Israel to hear the blessings and curses of the law. Verse 33 tells us:


"All the Israelites, with their elders, officials and judges, were standing on both sides of the ark of the covenant of the LORD, facing the Levitical priests who carried it. Both the foreigners living among them and the native-born were there."

And verse 35:


"There was not a word of all that Moses had commanded that Joshua did not read to the whole assembly of Israel, including the women and children, and the foreigners who lived among them."

Notice: the foreigners (strangers, sojourners) were present. They participated. They heard the covenant words. They were included in the assembly.


But they were still identified as foreigners. The text doesn't say "and then they became Israelites." It says "the foreigners who lived among them" — maintaining the category distinction even while including them in the covenant ceremony.


Inclusion does not equal absorption. This pattern continues into the New Testament.




Why a Dividing Wall If We're All the Same?​


Ephesians 2:14-16:


"For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross."

Notice the language: "the two groups," "one new humanity out of the two," "reconcile both of them."


If there were no real distinction, why speak of two becoming one? You can't unite what was never separate. The very act of breaking down the wall presupposes that two distinct groups existed — and the language of "both" suggests the categories remain intelligible even after reconciliation.


The wall is down. The hostility is gone. But "Jew" and "Gentile" remain meaningful terms throughout the NT, even after the cross.




Why Are the 144,000 Specifically Tribal?​


Revelation 7:4-8:


"Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000..."

John proceeds to name twelve tribes, with 12,000 from each.


If "Israel" simply means "the church" or "all believers regardless of ethnicity," why this specificity? Why name the tribes at all? The deliberate enumeration — Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin — only makes sense if tribal/ethnic Israel remains a distinct category with eschatological significance.


A symbolic reading has to explain why John bothered with the tribal details if they're meaningless.




Why Natural Branches and Wild Branches?​


This may be the hardest passage to reconcile with the view that Gentiles become Jews in every sense.


Romans 11:17-24:


"If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches... You will say then, 'Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.' Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith... And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!"

Key observations:


  1. Gentiles are explicitly called wild branches — even after grafting
  2. Jews are called natural branches — even the unbelieving ones who were cut off
  3. The grafting doesn't transform wild into natural — it grants participation in the root
  4. Paul anticipates the natural branches being grafted back into "their own olive tree"

If Gentile believers became Jews in every sense, why would Paul maintain this distinction? Why call one group "natural" and another "wild" if the categories no longer exist? The metaphor only works if the distinction persists.




Why Circumcise Timothy But Not Titus?​


If all believers are Jews in every sense — if the categories are erased through faith — then Paul's treatment of Timothy and Titus is inexplicable.


Acts 16:1-3 (Timothy):


"Paul came to Derbe and then to Lystra, where a disciple named Timothy lived, whose mother was Jewish and a believer but whose father was a Greek. The believers at Lystra and Iconium spoke well of him. Paul wanted to take him along on the journey, so he circumcised him because of the Jews who lived in that area, for they all knew that his father was a Greek."

Timothy had a Jewish mother — making him halakhically Jewish. Paul circumcised him so he could operate among Jews without causing a stumbling block.


Galatians 2:3 (Titus):


"Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek."

Titus was fully Gentile — no Jewish lineage. Paul refused to circumcise him, even under pressure.


Why the different treatment?


Because the distinction still mattered. Timothy's Jewish identity (through his mother) was relevant. Titus's Gentile identity was equally relevant. If everyone simply "becomes Jewish" through faith, Paul's differentiated approach makes no sense.


This is the same Paul who wrote "neither Jew nor Greek" in Galatians 3:28. Yet he clearly still recognized and operated within the distinction when circumstances required it.




Why "Those Who Say They Are Jews and Are Not"?​


Revelation 2:9:


"I know your afflictions and your poverty — yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan."

Revelation 3:9:


"I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars — I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you."

These passages only make sense if "Jew" is a meaningful category that can be falsely claimed. If everyone who believes is automatically a Jew in every sense, how could anyone falsely claim to be one? The very concept of a false claim presupposes a real distinction.




Why Were the Apostles Surprised at Cornelius?​


Acts 10:44-45:


"While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles."

If the early church understood that Gentiles simply become Jews through faith, why the astonishment? They were surprised precisely because they understood Jew and Gentile as distinct categories — and the Holy Spirit falling on Gentiles as Gentiles (uncircumcised, not proselytes) was unprecedented.


This surprise makes no sense if the categories were understood to be meaningless or automatically dissolved upon belief.




The Irrevocable Calling​


Romans 11:28-29:


"As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable."

Paul is speaking of ethnic Israel — those who have rejected the gospel. And yet he says they remain "loved on account of the patriarchs" and that God's calling is "irrevocable."


If ethnic Israel has been replaced by or absorbed into a spiritual Israel with no distinction, how can Paul speak of unbelieving Jews as still having an irrevocable calling? The category must persist for this statement to have meaning.




All Israel Will Be Saved — Who Is Hardened?​


Romans 11:25-26:


"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved."

Paul speaks of:


  • A partial hardening of Israel
  • A "full number" of Gentiles coming in
  • "All Israel" being saved

If "Israel" simply means "all believers," this passage becomes incoherent. How do you have a partial hardening of "all believers"? Who is hardened and who isn't if everyone is the same?


The passage only makes sense if:


  • "Israel" refers to ethnic Israel
  • "Gentiles" refers to non-Jews
  • The two groups remain distinguishable



Does Romans 2:28-29 Say Gentiles Become Biological Jews?​


Romans 2:28-29:


"A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code."

This is the strongest text for the view that "Jew" becomes a purely spiritual category. But consider:


  1. Paul's point here is that ethnic Jews who lack heart circumcision are not "true Jews" in the covenant-fulfillment sense — not that Gentiles become ethnic Jews.
  2. He's narrowing the definition (not all biological Jews are true Jews), not necessarily expanding it (all believers are Jews).
  3. Just chapters later (Romans 9-11), Paul agonizes over ethnic Israel, distinguishes natural from wild branches, and speaks of irrevocable calling. If Romans 2 erased the ethnic category, Romans 9-11 is incoherent.
  4. The "circumcision of the heart" language comes from Deuteronomy 30:6 — spoken to ethnic Israel about what God would do in their hearts. Paul is applying Israel's own scriptures to Israel.

The best reading: Romans 2:28-29 teaches that biological descent alone doesn't guarantee covenant standing — the heart must be circumcised. This is consistent with Romans 9:6 ("not all who are descended from Israel are Israel").


But this is a subset argument (true Israel is smaller than ethnic Israel), not necessarily an expansion argument (true Israel includes Gentiles as Jews).




Conclusion: Unity Without Uniformity​


The New Testament teaches genuine unity between Jewish and Gentile believers:


  • One body (1 Corinthians 12:13)
  • One new humanity (Ephesians 2:15)
  • Fellow heirs (Ephesians 3:6)
  • Neither Jew nor Greek in Christ (Galatians 3:28)

But unity does not require uniformity. The same passage that says "neither Jew nor Greek" also says "neither male nor female" — and no one argues that gender distinctions are thereby erased.


Gentiles are:


  • Grafted into the olive tree ✓
  • Partakers of the covenant blessings ✓
  • Fellow heirs with Israel ✓
  • Abraham's seed by faith ✓

Gentiles do not:


  • Become biological descendants of Jacob
  • Become "natural branches"
  • Lose their identity as "wild" branches
  • Replace ethnic Israel's irrevocable calling

The wall is down. The hostility is gone. The Spirit is poured out on all flesh. But the distinction between Jew and Gentile — while no longer a barrier — remains a biblical category from Genesis to Revelation.


One tree. Different branches. One body. Different members.


United, but not identical.
 
Isa 11:11-12
(11) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
(12) And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

This happens near the time of the second coming, and it says this is a second time the dispersed come together and of course form the nation of Israel as other verses show.

And it will be in a saved state the second time.

But what about the first time ?

Well the first time, when Judah and Israel came back together, from being dispersed, and forming one stick, was in 1948, but in an unsaved state, but the second time in a saved state.
 
Joshua 21
43..And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which He swore to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it and dwelt therein.

44..And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that He swore unto their fathers. And there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand.

45..There failed not aught of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel. All came to pass.


I read the above scripture and wonder how so many people believe that God has not fulfilled his promise to Israel about the promise land to Abraham and Jacob and Isaac.
Many say Israel has never dwelt in all the land God promised them so it will happen at some point.


Yet God word says it all came to pass, Gods word says he gave all the land to them, not partial land like I hear so many teaching today.
The God of Israel (The God of the Bible) pronounced a sentence upon Israel. He told them that if they would not keep his laws and abide by his rules, he would curse them, telling them exactly what would befall them. Israel broke his laws and did not keep his rules, so the Lord cursed them as he said he would. (See Deuteronomy 28th chapter).

In the 28th chapter, it should be understood that a lot of these things happened over the course of many years, continuing down to our time. Because this curse was pronounces upon us when Israel first became a nation, many of these curses occurred before our time and we don't recognize some of them, but some we do. Those we recognize are the ones that we will point out. The Lord said these curses will be upon us for a sign and wonder; (sign means to identify and wonder is to ask why).

See Deuteronomy 28, verses 28-30: "the Lord shall smite thee with madness", meaning you will be constantly angry because of the conditions; "blindness", having no knowledge of your history and self; "astonishment of heart", meaning always greatly surprised and amazed at your condition; "thou shalt grope at noonday as the blind gropeth in darkness", meaning to feel about or search or seek with blindness, and not certain or don't know what you are looking for (as if you were looking for something in a dark place and had no light); "thou shall not prosper in thy ways; and thou shall be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee; thou shall betroth a wife and another man shall lie with her; thou shall build a house and thou shall not dwell therein; thou shalt plant vineyards and shalt not gather the grapes thereof", meaning you work, but someone else will reap the proceeds; "thy sons and thy daughters shall be given unto another people and thine eyes shall look and fail with longing for them all the day long; and there shall be no might in thine hand", meaning your children will be sold and you will see them being sold by someone else and will not be able to do anything about it (remember Roots and "Slave Trading"); "the fruit of thy land and all thy labors shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up: and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway.....thou shalt be mad for the sight of thine eyes which thou shalt see."

See Zechariah 11:4, "Thus saith the Lord my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter, Vs. 5, whose possessors slay them and hold themselves not guilty; and they that sell them say, blessed be the Lord, for I am rich; and their own shepherds pity them not."

This scripture is very clear, and lets you know that whosoever owned the real Jews would kill them if they felt like it, and wouldn't think that they had done anything wrong (for instance: Kill an old slave that couldn't work anymore, or one that they thought was rebellious, or one whose will they could not break). Historically, the various hate groups didn't feel that they were wrong when they burned crosses in front of blacks' homes, hung them, or castrated and maimed them for sport. Even in these modern days, who cares if a young or old black is shot by a white person, or another black for that matter? Who cares how many black women get raped or how many blacks are killed by police officers?

No real investigations are made to find the true criminal or the reason why. Just read the statistics and you will find that the highest mortality rate in the nation is among young Black males. Or look at the sympathy that Cubans and other non-black immigrants get when entering this country. Then look at the non-sympathetic help that Haitians (blacks) get when they are fleeing into this country to escape oppression and death. I could write page upon page concerning the guiltless feelings of people who kill blacks (so-called Negroes or African-Americans).

The scripture in Zechariah 11:5 states that their possessors (slave owners) sold them and thanked and blessed God because they became rich for doing so. Just look and consider the many nations and their histories.

They all profess to be great "Christians" nations not only tolerated slave traders that packed black people in holes of ships (most of which died) en route to the market, but they also rushed to the market and cast their bid for the strongest and fittest that made it. Yes, as a slave trader, riches were dedicated by the amount he could buy. The majority of these people professed to be God-fearing Christians and probably sat in church every Sunday, yet none felt guilty (and this included America, England, France, Greece, Rome, and all so-called Christians and Moslem nations as well). Also, in the same 5th verse, it states that their (the real Jews) Shepards pity them not. How is that so? Just look at all of the black churches in America and in other nations. They don't truly care about their own people! They fill their collection plates and treasuries with the hard-earned money of poor blacks, build larger and fancier churches so they can have more room and more "sheep" to fleece, and put on all kinds of programs (gimmicks) to increase their flow of money. Then they buy big cars to drive to their big churches to show their flocks how nice they have been to their shepherds. The flocks love it, and they increase their donations. The height or riches of a shepherd (preacher) are dedicated by the size of his congregation or church!

As we continue, see Joel 3:1, "For behold, in those days and at that time when I shall bring again the captivity (captives) of Judah and Jerusalem (Israelites/Jews), Vs.2 , I will also gather all nations, and bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my (land of Israel), Vs.3, and they have cast lots for my people and given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink,

Vs. 4. What have you to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coast of Palestine (Middle East)? Will you render me a recompense (pay me back/repay me)? And if you recompense (repay) me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompense upon your own head, Vs. 5, Because you have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things, Vs. 6. The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem Israelites) have ye sold unto the Grecians (Greeks), that you might remove them far from their border".

In Joel 3:1-3, the Lord is speaking of the time when he will return the real Jews to their own Country. Vs. 2 is saying that at the same time the Lord will gather all nations in one place to plead with them (do battle) because of what they have done to the real Jews- because they have captured and sold them (the real Jews), and the whole coast of Palestine/ Middle East have taken their possessions, and divided the Jews' land among themselves. In Vs.3 and 4 the Lord is telling all of these nations that whatever they would repay him, it is not enough for what they have done to his people. Therefore, if they try to repay him, he will return it upon their own head. Why? Because the nations (all nations) have taken the real Jews and cast lots for them (bided for them/or auctioned them off like animals), and given a boy for an harlot (men traded or gave slave boys instead of money in payment to sleep with a prostitute), and sold a slave girl for wine (traded a young girl for some liquor). Vs. 5 and 6. The nations have taken valuables and riches of the real Jews and carried them into their own temples, and have taken the Jews themselves and sold them to the sons of the Greeks, and to other nations, and removed them far from their own borders.

But let's go to the future in Deuteronomy 30: 1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, 2 and shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; 3 that then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

Paul said this in Romans 11: 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
 
I read the above scripture and wonder how so many people believe that God has not fulfilled his promise to Israel about the promise land to Abraham and Jacob and Isaac.
Many say Israel has never dwelt in all the land God promised them so it will happen at some point.
You should ask people questions so to show you why they say what they say, have you done so ?

And in reading into things of this topic, it is important to look at the timeline of each book of Joshua, and everything that it says in the various chapters, and see how things fit, and even read the beginning chapters of Judges to see if there was more to conquer.

But I do get what you are saying, though it is important to compare scriptures with scriptures, so to see what Joshua is saying and in what way.

I am not really looking to chat more on this specific Joshua verse, just provoking to read more on it.

That is all.
 
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