Paul taught OSAS

[KingJ]

OSAS = Once saved always saved.

It seems that there are many who like to cherry pick passages from Paul to push a works based salvation. Non-OSAS. ''Salvation is dependant on your endurance''.

This is cart before horse teaching. Salvation is a gift. Gifted to those who pass God's judgement of heart and mind Jer 17:9-10. Endurance, not continuing in sin unrepentant and constantly judging yourself are signs and evidence of being truly saved.

A works based salvation makes a mockery of the cross and can incriminate God as unjust and partial. It implies that He is unable to properly vet a persons heart and mind. This is why it is a very important topic to get right. One we must not misrepresent God and scripture on.

Here is a list of a few examples where Paul does in fact, clearly support OSAS:


1. Romans 8:29-39 – The Golden Chain of Salvation

"For those God foreknew he also predestined... and those he justified, he also glorified... Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?... neither death nor life... nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God..."

This passage lays out an unbroken chain from foreknowledge to glorification. Those who are truly justified will inevitably be glorified. Nothing can separate the believer from God’s love.


2. Ephesians 1:13-14 – The Seal of the Holy Spirit

"...you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance..."

The Holy Spirit is seen as a guarantee, not just a possibility. The use of legal terms like "seal" and "deposit" supports the permanence of salvation for true believers.


3. Philippians 1:6 – God Finishes What He Starts

"Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus."

Paul expresses total confidence that God will complete His saving work, implying it cannot be lost or aborted.


4. Romans 11:29 – God’s Gifts and Calling Are Irrevocable

"For God's gifts and his call are irrevocable."

Paul refers to God's unchangeable purpose. Salvation is a gift. Once God gives saving grace, He doesn’t take it back.


5. 2 Timothy 1:12 – He is Able to Guard What I Entrusted

"...I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until that day."

Paul’s trust is not in himself but in God’s power to preserve his salvation.


6. Romans 5:9-10 – Saved from Wrath, Reconciled for Good

"...having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him... we were reconciled... much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

The argument is “how much more” will we be saved in the end, if we were already reconciled while still enemies. It points to the certainty of final salvation.


7. 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 – Saved Despite Loss of Rewards

"...If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

Even if a believer’s works are burned (i.e., they lived a carnal or ineffective Christian life), they themselves are still saved. Salvation isn't lost due to poor performance.


8. Ephesians 2:8-9 – Salvation is Not by Works

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God not by works, so that no one can boast."

Since salvation is not based on works, it logically follows that it cannot be lost by works either, as it was never earned.


9. 1 Cor 5:11 – Unrepentant sinners are not brethren

"But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister"

Paul distinguishes between genuine believers and professing ones who live in unrepentant sin. Those who “fall away” or persist in sin were never truly saved to begin with. It is not a case of them having lost their salvation.

 

[backNforth]

From the OP:

PAUL TAUGHT OSAS

That lie is clickbait, a dog pile posing as gourmet food.

The OP's author has posted hundreds of times on this site, over several years, promoting the false doctrine of OSAS via his "cherry picked passages." Yet, hope springs eternal.

For the teachable readers here, Scripture has much to say about the OSAS heresy.

OSAS = Once saved always saved.

"Once Saved Always Saved" is also known as "Eternal Security" or "perseverance of the saints." In other words, once someone accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior, there is nothing that he or she can do to separate himself/herself from God, and they will always be saved. This is a false doctrine. Dozens of passages show, without any doubt, that those who believe in Christ can fall away if they do not practice righteousness.

Parable of sower:

Mark 4:16 (Luke 8:13), "And in a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; (they believe for a while) and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away."

Fallen from grace passage:

Galatians 5:4, "You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."

Pruning passages:

John 15:5-6, "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
Romans, 11:19-23, "You will say then, Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in. Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again."

Hebrews Passages:

Hebrews 6:4-6, "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame."
Hebrews 10:26-27, "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries."
Hebrews 10:38-39, "Now the just shall live by faith: ; And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul."

Doctrinal Apostasy passages:

Acts 20:17,28-30, "And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called to him the elders of the church...I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them."
1 Timothy 1:18-21, "fight the good fight, keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander"
2 Timothy 2:16-18, "But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and thus they upset the faith of some."
1 Timothy 4:1, "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons"
1 Timothy 6:20-21, "O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called knowledge-which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith."
2 Peter 2:1, "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves."
2 Peter 3:17, "You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness."
2 John 8-9 "Watch yourselves, that you might not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son."

Moral Apostasy passages:

1 Timothy 6:9-10, "But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang."
2 Peter 2:20-22, "For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, A dog returns to its own vomit, and a sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."
James 5:19-20, "My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth, and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death, and will cover a multitude of sins."

Revelation passages:

Revelation 2:4-5, "'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 'Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you, and will remove your lampstand out of its place-unless you repent."
Revelation 3:5, 'He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels."
Revelation 3:16-17, "So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. 'Because you say, I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing, and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked."

Old Testament passages:

Ezekiel 18:24-26, "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die."

The fact the Bible exhorts to faithfulness proves one can be lost:

1. be "stedfast, unmoveable" (1 Corinthians 15:58).
2. "For if these things be in you" (2 Peter 1:5-11).
3. "we shall reap, if we faint not" (Galatians 6:9).
4. "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life" (Revelation 2:10).
5. practice these things and God will be with you (Philippians 4:9).

Man has a free will:

Joshua 24:15, "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

The Bible clearly prophesied some would fall away:

Acts 20:28, "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."
1 Timothy 4:1, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

 

[Gothedral]

Context: Too Long, Didn't Read your post because I have read more than Matthew Chapter 7 (See: Judas Iscariot, Apostate).

Therefore, I cannot "OSAS" because I believe The Word of God is The Judge, and not puny human logic.

There is Hell, and there is Heaven, and those are the consequences of things we cannot fathom.

 

[KingJ]

From the OP:

That lie is clickbait, a dog pile posing as gourmet food.

The OP's author has posted hundreds of times on this site, over several years, promoting the false doctrine of OSAS via his "cherry picked passages." Yet, hope springs eternal.

What 'hope springs eternal' with a non-OSAS belief? Please do explain. You teach that God cannot properly vet a persons heart. You thereby imply that our eternal hope may not be so eternal…..

For the teachable readers here, Scripture has much to say about the OSAS heresy.


"Once Saved Always Saved" is also known as "Eternal Security" or "perseverance of the saints." In other words, once someone accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior, there is nothing that he or she can do to separate himself/herself from God, and they will always be saved. This is a false doctrine. Dozens of passages show, without any doubt, that those who believe in Christ can fall away if they do not practice righteousness.

Nowhere in the definition of OSAS does it say ''once someone accepts Jesus''. OSAS = Once saved always saved.

Being saved is a gift given after thorough judgement of heart and mind Jer 17:9-10. OSAS is a belief that God will not take the gift back. IE That God can properly vet a person before gifting them. One would think a Christian grasp this as a 'duh' fact....

Parable of sower: Mark 4:16 (Luke 8:13), "And in a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; (they believe for a while) and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away."

You are reaching. A Christian is by definition the product of seeds planted in fertile ground. Firmly rooted. The problem is that you simply have no idea as to what exactly a Christian is.

1 Cor 5:11 and Matt 7:22-23 give perfect context to this passage. There are many in church that God will say to one day ''I do not know you, depart from workers of iniquity / you are brethren so called'. Just because you attend church, profess to accept Jesus and pray for the sick does not make you a Christian any more then gluing feathers to your arms makes you a duck.

Fallen from grace passage: Galatians 5:4, "You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace."\

You need to read from verse 1. Paul is not talking bout losing salvation here. His point is that we can live by the law or by grace and if we choose the law, we alienate Christ (and will fall away from grace).

Pruning passages: John 15:5-6, "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me, and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

You cannot abide in Christ any more than by being a Christian. The fact that you are a Christian is evidence that you are in Him. The problem is that you simply have no idea as to what exactly a Christian is.

Romans, 11:19-23, "You will say then, Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in. Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare

Again, you do not know what a Christian is. You cannot have unbelief as a Christian. 1 Cor 12:3 is crystal clear that believing Jesus is Lord is a gift that is given to us by the Holy Spirit. You are given a measure of faith Rom 12:3.

IE You either have it or you don't. This is why Rom 10:9 is quite clear that if you have the ability to call Jesus Lord and believe He was raised from the dead, you are saved.

Hebrews Passages: Hebrews 6:4-6, "For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame."

Do you really believe that a Christian is someone who has only ''tasted'' the heavenly gift? Someone who only '''partakes''' of the Holy Spirit?

Hebrews 10:26-27, "For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries."

You cannot go on sinning wilfully if you have passed God's judgement of true repentance. A Christian can be compared to someone who took a bullet for you in the army. It is impossible for those who showed the love required to take a bullet for you to also then continue unrepentant in any sin toward you.

Hebrews 10:38-39, "Now the just shall live by faith: ; And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him. But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul."

Paul helps me here. He explains himself in the second half. ''We are not of those who shrink back''.

----------------------

I have said enough now to cement my point. I cannot respond to literally every cherry picking of scripture AI and Google gives you. Feel free to quote one that you believe says something different to those I have already rebutted.

The truth of on non-OSAS position is:

1. You do not know what a Christian is.
2. Because of point 1, you read Paul's many warnings to those who think they are Christians and are not, as though they are for actual Christians.

The problem I have with you and all who believe as you do, is the fact that after 'several' years, none of you have properly dealt with my accusations of what your belief implies!!! Unlike an OSAS belief, a non-OSAS belief HEAVILY INCRIMINATES God.

 

[KingJ]

A non-OSAS belief implies:

1. God is dumb.

He cannot vet a persons heart. He can gift salvation to a Judas. Or dependant on timing (pre betrayal), He can graft someone like Judas into heaven.

2. Eternal security is a lie.

As God cannot properly vet anyone, nobody is eternally secure.

3. God is unjust.

He can gift a thief next to Jesus who repents of his sin with eternal bliss. But yet, someone who does this and more, and falls into sin in their, let's say 50'th year of service, will receive eternal fire.

4. God is partial.

He gives some a short life with few opportunities to lose their salvation, whilst others He gives a long life, and hence many more opportunities and time to lose salvation. Some are called to witness to professional, respectful people in an office environment. Others, to prostitutes where the risk of them falling into sin is much higher.

 

[KingJ]

It is clear to me that all who are non-OSAS do not know what a Christian is. Please read here for a detailed explanation.

Thread 'What is a Christian and how do you become one?'

Nov 15, 2022

A Christian is best defined by John 3:16

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

A Christian is the 'whomsoever' will believe in Jesus. Now, nobody can believe a man who walked the earth 2000 years ago is the Messiah, God of the universe Isa 9:6, without some help. The bible tells us in Matt 16:16-17 and 1 Cor 12:3, that a revelation from above / the Holy Spirit is necessary. It is completely impossible to believe Jesus is Lord without a revelation from the Holy Spirit 1...

• KingJ
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Bible Study

Thread 'So tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is!'

Oct 29, 2024

This OP consists of:

Section 1 - Venting
Section 2 - Explaining what a Christian is
Section 3 - Concluding argument

Section 1 - Venting:

I am so tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is! It has been suggested that Judas was a Christian. That a Christian can lose their salvation if they make mistakes just before they die. Or that God cherry picks some humans and makes them Christians.

When these statements are made it is crystal clear to me that A - The individual has no clue as to what a Christian is and B - The individual has no clue as to who God is.

Now, none of...

• KingJ
• Replies: 189
• Forum: Questions about Christianity

 

[B-A-C]

Paul taught OSAS​

On the other hand.. so did Satan.

Gen 3:4 The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die! ​

 

[Gothedral]

The Thief on the cross is in Paradise with Jesus Christ Our Lord and Redeemer, for example.

Quote Matthew Chapter 7 and match it up with your 4-point accusations. Lying is for the Hell-bound, and I know you don't want to go there either. Unless you blocked me and can't read this - then you're in trouble Lol ️

As a so-called "non-OSAS", I behold @KingJ a bearer of false witness:

A non-OSAS belief implies:

1. God is dumb.

He cannot vet a persons heart. He can gift salvation to a Judas. Or dependant on timing (pre betrayal), He can graft someone like Judas into heaven.

First, you blaspheme against God. Then you lie about what God expressly does. Christians know the alternative is a place meant for creatures such as Lucifer and his synagogue, like Judas and his employers.

So, you bear false witness - because much like Lucifer and others were already in Heaven before they decided to drag others down with them, so did Judas. Saul of Tarsus changed his ways, but Judas did what you are doing. Please stop.

A non-OSAS belief implies:

2. Eternal security is a lie.

As God cannot properly vet anyone, nobody is eternally secure.

As a non-OSAS, I point to the fact there is a Hell before Adam and Eve woke up in Eden. Every particle of one's behavior determines if you get to go back Home with Holy Father in Heaven and Christ Almighty to Save. Note that is basic Christian understanding. You lied again.

A non-OSAS belief implies:

3. God is unjust.

He can gift a thief next to Jesus who repents of his sin with eternal bliss. But yet, someone who does this and more, and falls into sin in their, let's say 50'th year of service, will receive eternal fire.

Deuteronomy 32:
3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all His ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is He.

5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.

6 Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy Father that hath bought thee? hath He not made thee, and established thee?

7 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee.

^ Moses. Believe that man's testimony of God before he died at the height of his faith.

Matthew chapter 7:
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

^ Basic Christian knowledge that "OSAS" is a lie according to the Word of God, and Christ is the Word, and his ways are just. you have no power to be saved @KingJ , only the Atonement of Christ can save any of us.
Please stop leading others astray like a common devil, bro. You have the Word as anyone on Earth. I say this because when Christ commands us to "Go, and sin no more.", I know my lifetime of struggle against evil, and that only God can be my Savior.
️

 

[KingJ]

On the other hand.. so did Satan.

Gen 3:4 The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die! ​

Unrelated. Adam and Eve had not yet tasted evil. Only after their sin were they aware of good and evil Gen 3:22.

If you want to use this argument for Christianity, do so with someone that just died as a martyr for Jesus. Tell that person that if they steal candy from the candy store they will die and go to ETERNAL FIRE. Imagine that.

A more related point on satan would be grasping the fact that God properly vetted his heart and permanently removed him from heaven.

Surely you can understand the idiocy of your proposal?

 

[KingJ]

The Thief on the cross is in Paradise with Jesus Christ Our Lord and Redeemer, for example.

Quote Matthew Chapter 7 and match it up with your 4-point accusations. Lying is for the Hell-bound, and I know you don't want to go there either. Unless you blocked me and can't read this - then you're in trouble Lol ️

As a so-called "non-OSAS", I behold @KingJ a bearer of false witness:

Accusing someone of being a false prophet / witness is a harsh accusation. You need to properly support that accusation.

First, you blaspheme against God. Then you lie about what God expressly does. Christians know the alternative is a place meant for creatures such as Lucifer and his synagogue, like Judas and his employers.

So, you bear false witness - because much like Lucifer and others were already in Heaven before they decided to drag others down with them, so did Judas. Saul of Tarsus changed his ways, but Judas did what you are doing. Please stop.

I blaspheme God? If you read the first line, I clearly state it is a list of accusations I have against a non-OSAS belief. Non -OSAS implies those four items.

As a non-OSAS, I point to the fact there is a Hell before Adam and Eve woke up in Eden. Every particle of one's behavior determines if you get to go back Home with Holy Father in Heaven and Christ Almighty to Save. Note that is basic Christian understanding. You lied again.

You are just typing a random point. Not addressing the accusation.

Deuteronomy 32:
3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all His ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is He.

5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.

6 Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy Father that hath bought thee? hath He not made thee, and established thee?

7 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee.

^ Moses. Believe that man's testimony of God before he died at the height of his faith.

Matthew chapter 7:
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

^ Basic Christian knowledge that "OSAS" is a lie according to the Word of God, and Christ is the Word, and his ways are just. you have no power to be saved @KingJ , only the Atonement of Christ can save any of us.
Please stop leading others astray like a common devil, bro. You have the Word as anyone on Earth. I say this because when Christ commands us to "Go, and sin no more.", I know my lifetime of struggle against evil, and that only God can be my Savior.️

I am not sure what point you are addressing or what you are trying to say.

All I gather from your post is that you are non-OSAS and are not providing any form of rebuttal of my accusations of your belief.

 

[Gothedral]

Accusing someone of being a false prophet / witness is a harsh accusation. You need to properly support that accusation.



I blaspheme God? If you read the first line, I clearly state it is a list of accusations I have against a non-OSAS belief. Non -OSAS implies those four items.



You are just typing a random point. Not addressing the accusation.



I am not sure what point you are addressing or what you are trying to say.

All I gather from your post is that you are non-OSAS and are not providing any form of rebuttal of my accusations of your belief.

Brothers and sisters, I quoted The Word of God, and this was their trembling response.

I pray for God's Divine justice and mercy on us, because remember... even the tempted and the possessed have a lifetime of a chance. ️

God bless you.

 

[Gerbolski]

I do not know if I really want to get into this thread, but here goes.

In reality, it is a very simple gospel, are there battles? Of course, is there trials? Of course.

Salvation is in Christ and not outside of Christ.

Eph 2:8-9
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

And concerning grace it says this:

Tit 2:11-12
(11) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
(12) Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Grace teaches us, to deny ungodliness and so forth, and really empowers us to live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

Grace gets us to the place of being born again, but also continuously changes us to be conformed to the image of Christ.

Is there a change that happens at salvation ? Yes, and is there a continued change afterwards ? Yes.

Sanctification sets us apart for the master's use, and it is also a process of change.

So who can pluck us out of the hand of God ?


Joh 10:27-29
(27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
(28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
(29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

In Christ you shall never perish, but outside of Christ you can, now no man can pluck you out of his hands, but can you ?

Rom 8:12-13
(12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
(13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


Paul was speaking to real brethren as brethren, which brethren are believers.

If a believer lives after the flesh, he shall die, which speaks not of physical death, for we all die physically, but spiritual death, and the bible says that the wages of sin is death.

But if we believers through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, we shall live.

So no man can pluck us out, but we can through not following after Christ, by living after the way of sin.

Rom 11:22
(22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Paul was speaking to believers here about continuing in his goodness otherwise you can also be cut off.

It is a very simple gospel, salvation is in Christ and not in self, we start off by grace through faith, and we continue in grace, through faith.

And yes God is patient with us, but nevertheless continue in him.

 

[KingJ]

Brothers and sisters, I quoted The Word of God, and this was their trembling response.

I pray for God's Divine justice and mercy on us, because remember... even the tempted and the possessed have a lifetime of a chance. ️

God bless you.

You are not properly reading my posts and you are over reacting sister.

^ Basic Christian knowledge that "OSAS" is a lie according to the Word of God and Christ is the Word, and his ways are just.

Re-read the OP and pick a point you disagree with.

you have no power to be saved @KingJ , only the Atonement of Christ can save any of us.

True and false. In the OT we saved ourselves by repenting and getting to paradise / Abrahams bosom.

In the NT salvation has evolved a bit. It is not only escaping fire but also reconciliation with God.

Only we can save ourselves from fire. Only Jesus can save us from separation and unite us with God.

Please stop leading others astray like a common devil, bro.

Why do you say this? I have raised four accusations (seep post # 5) of a non-OSAS belief that will lead the lost astray. You have not rebutted any and nor raised your own of an OSAS belief. How exactly does it lead people astray, please explain.

You have the Word as anyone on Earth. I say this because when Christ commands us to "Go, and sin no more.", I know my lifetime of struggle against evil, and that only God can be my Savior.

No dispute there. You are making assumptions about OSAS. In 1 Cor 5:11 we clearly see that Paul calls anyone continuing in sin unrepentant a brother and sister ''so called''.

---------------------------

Let me draw you a picture for you of what it means to be saved so that you can better understand where I am coming from.

Let's say you and I join the army. We go to Ukraine. There, you find yourself under fire. I see a Russian about to shoot you and jump in front, taking the bullet for you. As a result of my action, you live and I barely survive. After the war. Since I am now paralyzed and unable to walk. Do you allow me into your house? Do you kick me out if I get annoying? Do you think I will ever be able to harm you if I took a bullet for you? For all eternity there is a union between man and God as they have both shown love from the depth of their hearts. This is why Jesus says what He does in Matt 16:24. Non-OSAS is 100% cart before horse.

Where most peoples brains ''break'' is in understanding that depth of intent is everything to God.

You can serve God your whole life, but according to Rev 2:10 if you cannot endure martyrdom you will not receive a crown.

Please properly read my posts before making your wild false teacher statements. You are judging my words like Democrat judge would a Republican cop who killed a black person in the line of duty.

 

[KingJ]

I do not know if I really want to get into this thread, but here goes.

In reality, it is a very simple gospel, are there battles? Of course, is there trials? Of course.

Salvation is in Christ and not outside of Christ.

Eph 2:8-9
(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

And concerning grace it says this:

Tit 2:11-12
(11) For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
(12) Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Grace teaches us, to deny ungodliness and so forth, and really empowers us to live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.

Grace gets us to the place of being born again, but also continuously changes us to be conformed to the image of Christ.

Is there a change that happens at salvation ? Yes, and is there a continued change afterwards ? Yes.

Sanctification sets us apart for the master's use, and it is also a process of change.

So who can pluck us out of the hand of God ?


Joh 10:27-29
(27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
(28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
(29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

In Christ you shall never perish, but outside of Christ you can, now no man can pluck you out of his hands, but can you ?

Rom 8:12-13
(12) Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
(13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


Paul was speaking to real brethren as brethren, which brethren are believers.

If a believer lives after the flesh, he shall die, which speaks not of physical death, for we all die physically, but spiritual death, and the bible says that the wages of sin is death.

But if we believers through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, we shall live.

So no man can pluck us out, but we can through not following after Christ, by living after the way of sin.

Rom 11:22
(22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Paul was speaking to believers here about continuing in his goodness otherwise you can also be cut off.

It is a very simple gospel, salvation is in Christ and not in self, we start off by grace through faith, and we continue in grace, through faith.

And yes God is patient with us, but nevertheless continue in him.

Most non-OSAS believers raise that argument. ''God will not leave you, but you can leave Him''.

The problem with that is per my post # 5, you are implying God is A. a fool that would wash clean in His blood someone who would be a Judas and be B. partial as Judas's sin was a matter of timing. Why would God not take him before his sin? And C. Unjust as many get to heaven by only repenting of their sin. Why would someone who does that and more receive eternal fire?

 

[Gerbolski]

God does not force people.

You should stick to scripture, rather than trying to find an argument, I probably won't convince you, because you seem too far into your way of thinking, that no scripture would matter.

So once in Christ, should you continue in him or not ?

 

[Gerbolski]

And KingJ, I am ok with arguments in and of themselves, but make sure it is in line with scripture, and not just a run around argument.

Now I repeat, once in Christ, should we continue in Christ ?

 

[B-A-C]

Most non-OSAS believers raise that argument. ''God will not leave you, but you can leave Him''.

The problem with that is per my post # 5, you are implying God is A. a fool that would wash clean in His blood someone who would be a Judas and be B. partial as Judas's sin was a matter of timing. Why would God not take him before his sin? And C. Unjust as many get to heaven by only repenting of their sin. Why would someone who does that and more receive eternal fire?

And yet the Bible mentions over a dozen places where people left Him.
Jesus said narrow is the gate that leads to life... and there are "FEW" that find it.
Wide is the path that leads to destruction.. and "MANY" will find that.

So then... why did God "waste" His time creating them at all?
Why did God "waste" His time creating humanity.. just to destroy 99% of them in a flood?
Why did God waste His time on Solomon before he turned to other gods.
Why did God waste His time on Judas?
Why did God waste His time on Ananias and Sapphira?
Why did God waste His time on the Jews in the wilderness for 40 years, if 99% of them wouldn't enter Canaan?
Why did God waste His time grafting the Jews in, just to graft them out later?

Could it be... that God doesn't consider these things a waste. In fact it would seem there are rewards for trying even
if people dont get saved.

The great commission... go unto "all" the world... even though "all" the world won't accept your message.
Whoever doesn't receive your message... wipe the dust off your feet and go somewhere else.

But it doesn't say "don't waste your time on them".
There is no such thing as wasted time when it comes to people's salvation. Even if they don't accept it.

In fact I would submit... the real wasted time,, is the time we don't spend trying.

 

[B-A-C]

God does not force people.

OSAS is pure Calvinism... no free will.
He won't "waste" His time on those He knows won't choose to stay saved.
(Predestination)
He only chooses those who will stay saved.
(Conditional election)
And once He chooses you, you have no choice but to remain saved.
(Irresistable grace).

..and yet the Bible says some people will be "removed" out of His kingdom. (Parable of wheat and tares).

 

[Gerbolski]

Ya I agree B-A-C that that is what they say, that there is no free will within calvinism, and that you have no say on the salvation subject, they think it is automatic, yet the bible says this:

Jos 24:15
(15) And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

And yet God's actual will is this:

2Pe 3:9
(9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

It even mentions the word will here , as in he is not "willing" that any perish, which that is what he wants, but in the end, most will choose the broad way.

As men, we have to choose his choice, of wanting to save men.

If he wants all to be saved, then that is his will, but not many accept his will.

Which tells me that all have a chance at getting saved, no respecter of persons.

 

[B-A-C]

If he wants all to be saved, then that is his will, but not many accept his will.

Absolutely.

If we say God doesn't play favorites.. but then in the next sentence say... He does play favorites.. because He wouldn't "waste" His time on some people, then we are right back to playing favorites. Right back to predestination.