Wondering

[Rhema]

you have no room to be taught by The Spirit of the Lord..

So without knowing me, you feel completely free to condemn me. I think you've proved my point.

Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also.​

- John 15:20-23 KJV

Thank you for your condemnation, Twistie, I hope things go well with you and yours.

Be blessed,
Rhema

 

[Bill]

Uh Oh... I misspoke. (That's what happens when I don't proofread...and am in a hurry.)

I had said:

I ought to have written
THIS reminds me of the ... Bishops excommunicating one another.
OR...
I am reminded of...
I hadn't meant "you" personally.
Sorry... (gettin' old)


You realize this was endemic throughout the entirety of the Catholic church in the 300's.

Kind regards,
Rhema

Honestly I'm not really up on all the Catholic church history. It's kind of like reminiscing over a lot of craziness. The things that I am up on are people who really stand out in the crowd like Francis of Assisi, Thomas Merton, and a number of others. Those that really lived a Christlike life

But I'm also aware of a number of people from around the world that I would stand and vouch for them as well, those that are not in the Catholic Church. Because I don't think that the Catholic Church in its title is the only way. I just believe that the Catholic Church has the richest ground to grow in as far as learning to become more like Christ.

But this thinking of mine is not limiting everyone else either because there are many holy people in the world that are not Catholic.

I know in my heart that you do not need to experience speaking in tongues, or experience the craziness of the spiritual world to have the Holy Spirit In You. There is a unique gift called prayer, and there are large number of people who have this gift. They may not even know that they have the Holy Spirit in them as they have never actually gone to a meeting where they received the Holy Spirit as many others have. You don't have to go to those Holy Spirit receiving type meetings to receive it in the first place. It has to do where your heart is. Look at John the Baptist and his mother Elizabeth as examples.

 

[Bill]

I wanted to add to my comments about holy people in the world. There are some who are more intellectual than others maybe they don't pray as much as others but in their intellect God reveals himself

 

[MedicBravo]

What do you consider the difference between a church n a temple especially now a days there are what I consider temples all over the place n a new one popping up constantly

(⁠≧⁠▽⁠≦⁠)

We are the Church, capital C.
Architecture a church is a more modern building even one a couple of hundred years old.
Temples tend to have columns and inspired by Roman architecture.
Cathetdrals are a Catholic thing not a Baptist or Protestant thing.

We Protestants tend to keep things simple.
A church on a steeple very high has been used for a long time and IMO a preferred design.
Before the internet, you could only find a town's church by the cross/steeple, the bell, or asking people where it is.
In my town, on one street nearby there are 4 churches. One is so bland there's nothing to show but the sign out front and on the building. Kind of suspicious.
It could be the front for a mafia group. ‍

 

[Garee]

Honestly I'm not really up on all the Catholic church history. It's kind of like reminiscing over a lot of craziness. The things that I am up on are people who really stand out in the crowd like Francis of Assisi, Thomas Merton, and a number of others. Those that really lived a Christlike life

But I'm also aware of a number of people from around the world that I would stand and vouch for them as well, those that are not in the Catholic Church. Because I don't think that the Catholic Church in its title is the only way. I just believe that the Catholic Church has the richest ground to grow in as far as learning to become more like Christ.

But this thinking of mine is not limiting everyone else either because there are many holy people in the world that are not Catholic.

I know in my heart that you do not need to experience speaking in tongues, or experience the craziness of the spiritual world to have the Holy Spirit In You. There is a unique gift called prayer, and there are large number of people who have this gift. They may not even know that they have the Holy Spirit in them as they have never actually gone to a meeting where they received the Holy Spirit as many others have. You don't have to go to those Holy Spirit receiving type meetings to receive it in the first place. It has to do where your heart is. Look at John the Baptist and his mother Elizabeth as examples.

I just believe that the Catholic Church which could have born again Christians has the richest ground to grow in as far as learning to become more like Christ. They experienced firsthand sola scriptura the first century reformation the standard for all reformations The faithful as it is written still doing its spiritual work daily

They have no salvation save one called Mary the queen mother of heaven the rest of the planet a unknowable remnant of grace. Grace,. . .the full price of salvation.

Therefore, its off to Limbo or purgatory wondering, suffering, wondering, wondering as if unfulfilled prophecy. The hopelessness of oral traditions of dying mankind

Believers must be careful how they hear who they say they do. Our loving Father would not hesitate sent send a strong delusion to those who reject sola scriptura

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,. . . . (As if true prophecy sola scriptura)

Non-believers seek after a sign as if true prophecy Believers have the whole book of prophecy sealed till the end of time under the Sun

 

[Twistie]

We are the Church, capital C.
Architecture a church is a more modern building even one a couple of hundred years old.
Temples tend to have columns and inspired by Roman architecture.
Cathetdrals are a Catholic thing not a Baptist or Protestant thing.

We Protestants tend to keep things simple.
A church on a steeple very high has been used for a long time and IMO a preferred design.
Before the internet, you could only find a town's church by the cross/steeple, the bell, or asking people where it is.
In my town, on one street nearby there are 4 churches. One is so bland there's nothing to show but the sign out front and on the building. Kind of suspicious.
It could be the front for a mafia group. ‍

Ya thing is the Lord's Church is the Living people so to call dead buildings a church of God is calling what is dark light like calling a building a living thing when clearly it is not.. idk I find it much simpler if I keep the two separate this way I have no expectations I don't expect them to be following The God of the Living or of the dead..

I see a temple is a place where one goes to worship what ever that person clicks with especially in this day n age Neva been but heard there is a temple "church" where all claim they follow the Living God men claiming lying with men is acceptable j woman being the head is acceptable like many of the Christian temples here claim idk..

I find it real nuts cause I thought Oklahoma was supposed to be like bible belt

Hope all's well with you n yours...

(⁠=⁠｀⁠ェ⁠´⁠=⁠)

 

[Rhema]

heard there is a temple "church" where all claim they follow the Living God men claiming lying with men is acceptable j woman being the head is acceptable like many of the Christian temples here claim idk..

That would be the ELCA - Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. It didn't start out that way, but slid into this over the past couple of decades. Other denominations are on the same wide path.

But as far as men lying with men, you might wish to speak with @Dylan569 about this, who thinks such is acceptable based upon his translation definitions, and, surprisingly, is Baptist. (He has a couple of threads/posts about this.)

 

[Bill]

We are the Church, capital C.
Architecture a church is a more modern building even one a couple of hundred years old.
Temples tend to have columns and inspired by Roman architecture.
Cathetdrals are a Catholic thing not a Baptist or Protestant thing.

We Protestants tend to keep things simple.
A church on a steeple very high has been used for a long time and IMO a preferred design.
Before the internet, you could only find a town's church by the cross/steeple, the bell, or asking people where it is.
In my town, on one street nearby there are 4 churches. One is so bland there's nothing to show but the sign out front and on the building. Kind of suspicious.
It could be the front for a mafia group. ‍

"We Protestants tend to keep things simple.
A church on a steeple very high has been used for a long time and IMO a preferred design.
Before the internet, you could only find a town's church by the cross/steeple, the bell, or asking people where it is."

I cannot help but laugh, LOL

The Protestants came out of the Catholic Church. However if you want to look at things before the split there were all sorts of churches built exactly the way you described

 

[Bill]

I just believe that the Catholic Church which could have born again Christians has the richest ground to grow in as far as learning to become more like Christ. They experienced firsthand sola scriptura the first century reformation the standard for all reformations The faithful as it is written still doing its spiritual work daily

They have no salvation save one called Mary the queen mother of heaven the rest of the planet a unknowable remnant of grace. Grace,. . .the full price of salvation.

Therefore, its off to Limbo or purgatory wondering, suffering, wondering, wondering as if unfulfilled prophecy. The hopelessness of oral traditions of dying mankind

Believers must be careful how they hear who they say they do. Our loving Father would not hesitate sent send a strong delusion to those who reject sola scriptura

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,. . . . (As if true prophecy sola scriptura)

Non-believers seek after a sign as if true prophecy Believers have the whole book of prophecy sealed till the end of time under the Sun

I would be careful if I were you to place judgment on a church solely because you disagree with the way they think, it may come back to haunt you

 

[Garee]

I would be careful if I were you to place judgment on a church solely because you disagree with the way they think, it may come back to haunt you

Hi Thanks

I don't thinks it's my judgment.

Christ's word calls the foundation of the queen of heaven. A lying wonder, wonder, wonder of Satan as if true prophecy.

2 Thessolonian2: 9;Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

False prophecy oral traditions of dying mankind. Limbo Purgatory just as if true prophecy

They in effect said; We will not listen to the living word of Christ (sola scriptura) We will certainly do whatsoever thing goes out of our own mouth;

The Queen the Catholic must call Mary named after our sister in the Lord.

Jerimiah 44:17;But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

They teach the non-venerable pew warmers that the queen mother alone received the fullness of grace the full price of salvation, And the rest of the world a unknown remnant of grace. So then after they take their last breath of oxygen the true suffering begins limbo for the younger infant sinners and purgatory for the more mature sinners

In that way there must be differences of opinion called heresies seeing we walk by faith (God's understnding working in us ) and not by sight our own understnding. Not as if the resurrection had already came.

So, then any opinion as an oral tradition except one the damnable or judgeable . Again teaching only Queen Mary received the fulness of grace the full price.

No full price "salvation" just a wondering lying remnant

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

 

[Twistie]

I would be careful if I were you to place judgment on a church solely because you disagree with the way they think, it may come back to haunt you

Lord said we will know them by their fruits.. best be careful walking around with blinder it's how one gets caught up following mans ways instead of the Lord how one sits in the seats of the scoffers..


Jude warns us of them too

J.s.

(⁠≧⁠(⁠ｴ⁠)⁠≦⁠ ⁠)

 

[MedicBravo]

"We Protestants tend to keep things simple.
A church on a steeple very high has been used for a long time and IMO a preferred design.
Before the internet, you could only find a town's church by the cross/steeple, the bell, or asking people where it is."

I cannot help but laugh, LOL

The Protestants came out of the Catholic Church. However if you want to look at things before the split there were all sorts of churches built exactly the way you described

Simple regarding building a church.
Compare to Catholics and others. I'm not against unique and well done architecture even outside of the norms.
Where is the commandments to build these huge "churches" and cathedrals? Hmm?
Cost. Materials. Floor plan. Time frame. Employees and their pay.
Few places in history around the word have ever been 100% free of homeless, needy, sick, etc.
Everything here is temporary.
Given what the Catholics do, 95% works based faith, prove to us the Reformation was wrong.

 

[Bill]

Hi Thanks

I don't thinks it's my judgment.

Christ's word calls the foundation of the queen of heaven. A lying wonder, wonder, wonder of Satan as if true prophecy.

2 Thessolonian2: 9;Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

False prophecy oral traditions of dying mankind. Limbo Purgatory just as if true prophecy

They in effect said; We will not listen to the living word of Christ (sola scriptura) We will certainly do whatsoever thing goes out of our own mouth;

The Queen the Catholic must call Mary named after our sister in the Lord.

Jerimiah 44:17;But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

They teach the non-venerable pew warmers that the queen mother alone received the fullness of grace the full price of salvation, And the rest of the world a unknown remnant of grace. So then after they take their last breath of oxygen the true suffering begins limbo for the younger infant sinners and purgatory for the more mature sinners

In that way there must be differences of opinion called heresies seeing we walk by faith (God's understnding working in us ) and not by sight our own understnding. Not as if the resurrection had already came.

So, then any opinion as an oral tradition except one the damnable or judgeable . Again teaching only Queen Mary received the fulness of grace the full price.

No full price "salvation" just a wondering lying remnant

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Luther had issues about Purgatory. At the time the Catholic church had gotten into a money-making scheme which is called indulgences but they were selling it as a way of making money. A really unfortunate time for the Catholic Church.

The Catholic church is not without having its moments of the negative type, but there is much Beauty in the Catholic church as well.

I think people forget that we were all one together for many years inside the church and we fought off a number of different heresies that came along as time went on.

You understand as well as I do that when you have a lot of power, pride comes in there too and that was the result of the break in the church.

I don't think that there is any established church in the world that does not go through its roller coaster ride from its high moments in the Lord , to its low moments when they think they are perfect and loose track.

All you have to do, to see if the catholic church is scriptural, just follow the Israelites from the time of Abraham to the present, you'll see the same roller coaster ride.

It is a normal thing. Humans get stupid. And then return to God.

If you don't believe me, just wait for the future when you see preachers and priests alike telling parishioners it is ok to recieve the make of the beast.

The osas crowd will feel it is ok, because they are saved. ( wrong )

Anyone who recieves the mark of the beast, or tells others to do it ( even though they do not get the mark ) are in serious trouble . It will be like giving your place in heaven away for a bowl of food

 

[Dylan569]

That would be the ELCA - Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. It didn't start out that way, but slid into this over the past couple of decades. Other denominations are on the same wide path.

But as far as men lying with men, you might wish to speak with @Dylan569 about this, who thinks such is acceptable based upon his translation definitions, and, surprisingly, is Baptist. (He has a couple of threads/posts about this.)

I see my view of “men lying with men” is challenged as not being acceptable in the sight of God.

“I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: Very pleasant hast thou been unto me: Thy love to me was wonderful, Passing the love of women.” (2Sam 1:26, ASV)

“I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were most dear to me; your love for me was wonderful, surpassing the love of women.” (2Sam 1:26, REB)

Notice the Douay-Rheims translation added a fake sentence to that verse in an obvious attempt to hide the clear statement of Jonathan’s love is described as surpassing the “love of women”.

“I grieve for thee, my brother Jonathan: exceeding beautiful, and amiable to me above the love of women. As the mother loveth her only son, so did I love thee.” ((2Sa 1:26 Douay-Rheims)

That underlined sentence is a fraud translated from the Latin Vulgate. Then there is an explicit statement of men lying together in the words of Solomon:

“There is one that is alone, and he hath not a second; yea, he hath neither son nor brother; yet is there no end of all his labor, neither are his eyes satisfied with riches. For whom then, saith he, do I labor, and deprive my soul of good? This also is vanity, yea, it is a sore travail. Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their labor. For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow; but woe to him that is alone when he falleth, and hath not another to lift him up. Again, if two lie together, then they have warmth; but how can one be warm alone? And if a man prevail against him that is alone, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.” (Eccl 4:8-12, ASV)

The context clearly indicates it is good for males, men to lie together because they then have warmth. Therefore, to say men lying with men is sinful, the scripture must be shown where it is sin for the Christian, the New Covenant believer. It has to be shown what sin is involved when men are lying with men.

The Old Covenant condemned male cult prostitutes serving in the idolatrous shrines, and the Apostle Paul condemns men who leave their wives and become involved in abusive and promiscuous sexual conduct with men.

Nowhere can it be shown that the fact of two men lying together is sin, unless a sinful conduct is clearly shown in the context of the verse presented. Of course, Rhema is a scholar surpassing the scholarship of all the translators of our standard translations.

I suspect many of the gay haters among so-called Christian leaders and teachers, turn out to be major hypocritical frauds like Ted Haggard: Ted Haggard - Wikipedia

He was even the president of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE)!

 

[Bill]

I see my view of “men lying with men” is challenged as not being acceptable in the sight of God.

“I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: Very pleasant hast thou been unto me: Thy love to me was wonderful, Passing the love of women.” (2Sam 1:26, ASV)

“I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were most dear to me; your love for me was wonderful, surpassing the love of women.” (2Sam 1:26, REB)

Notice the Douay-Rheims translation added a fake sentence to that verse in an obvious attempt to hide the clear statement of Jonathan’s love is described as surpassing the “love of women”.

“I grieve for thee, my brother Jonathan: exceeding beautiful, and amiable to me above the love of women. As the mother loveth her only son, so did I love thee.” ((2Sa 1:26 Douay-Rheims)

That underlined sentence is a fraud translated from the Latin Vulgate. Then there is an explicit statement of men lying together in the words of Solomon:

“There is one that is alone, and he hath not a second; yea, he hath neither son nor brother; yet is there no end of all his labor, neither are his eyes satisfied with riches. For whom then, saith he, do I labor, and deprive my soul of good? This also is vanity, yea, it is a sore travail. Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their labor. For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow; but woe to him that is alone when he falleth, and hath not another to lift him up. Again, if two lie together, then they have warmth; but how can one be warm alone? And if a man prevail against him that is alone, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.” (Eccl 4:8-12, ASV)

The context clearly indicates it is good for males, men to lie together because they then have warmth. Therefore, to say men lying with men is sinful, the scripture must be shown where it is sin for the Christian, the New Covenant believer. It has to be shown what sin is involved when men are lying with men.

The Old Covenant condemned male cult prostitutes serving in the idolatrous shrines, and the Apostle Paul condemns men who leave their wives and become involved in abusive and promiscuous sexual conduct with men.

Nowhere can it be shown that the fact of two men lying together is sin, unless a sinful conduct is clearly shown in the context of the verse presented. Of course, Rhema is a scholar surpassing the scholarship of all the translators of our standard translations.

I suspect many of the gay haters among so-called Christian leaders and teachers, turn out to be major hypocritical frauds like Ted Haggard: Ted Haggard - Wikipedia

He was even the president of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE)!

Ever read Roman's?

The other problem with homosexuals living together you want to take that as something as being holy when it's not. God refers to one man one woman the union together as being holy. And what's holy should not be taken apart.

 

[Dylan569]

Ever read Roman's?

The other problem with homosexuals living together you want to take that as something as being holy when it's not. God refers to one man one woman the union together as being holy. And what's holy should not be taken apart.

Yes, I have read Romans and then actually studied it, so I know what I am talking about. In Romans one you see Paul describing the same sex wickedness just as one of the Greek poets or philosophers of his day described it. It is so much like what Paul was teaching, and in detail. This is what Paul spoke of in Romans one and 1 Cor. 6:9 & 1 Tim 1:10 -

From the Greek philosopher Dio Chrysostom (40-110 AD) in The Seventh or Euboean Discourse

“In dealing with brothel-keepers and their trade we must certainly betray no weakness as though something were to be said on both sides, but must sternly forbid them...Such men bring individuals together in union without love and intercourse without affection, and all for the sake of filthy lucre...For evils are never wont to remain as they are; they are ever active and advancing to greater wantonness if they meet no compelling check...Indeed, beginning with practices and habits that seem trivial and allowable, it acquires a strength and force that are uncontrollable, and no longer stops at anything...Now at this point we must assuredly remember that this adultery committed with outcasts, so evident in our midst and becoming so brazen and unchecked, is to a very great extent paving the way to hidden and secret assaults upon the chastity of women and boys of good family...The man whose appetite is insatiate in such things, when he finds there is no scarcity, no resistance, in this field, will have contempt for the easy conquest and scorn for a woman's love, as a thing too readily given — in fact, too utterly feminine — and will turn his assault against the male quarters, eager to befoul the youth who will very soon be magistrates and judges and generals, believing that in them he will find a kind of pleasure difficult and hard to procure. His state is like that of men who are addicted to drinking and wine-bibbing, who after long and steady drinking of unmixed wine, often lose their taste for it and create an artificial thirst by the stimulus of sweatings, salted foods, and condiments.”
Phrasing lifted from text numbered 133 through 152

http://demonax.info/doku.php?id=text:dio_chrysostom_orations_1-20#the_seventh_or_euboean_discourse

 

[Bill]

Yes, I have read Romans and then actually studied it, so I know what I am talking about. In Romans one you see Paul describing the same sex wickedness just as one of the Greek poets or philosophers of his day described it. It is so much like what Paul was teaching, and in detail. This is what Paul spoke of in Romans one and 1 Cor. 6:9 & 1 Tim 1:10 -

From the Greek philosopher Dio Chrysostom (40-110 AD) in The Seventh or Euboean Discourse

“In dealing with brothel-keepers and their trade we must certainly betray no weakness as though something were to be said on both sides, but must sternly forbid them...Such men bring individuals together in union without love and intercourse without affection, and all for the sake of filthy lucre...For evils are never wont to remain as they are; they are ever active and advancing to greater wantonness if they meet no compelling check...Indeed, beginning with practices and habits that seem trivial and allowable, it acquires a strength and force that are uncontrollable, and no longer stops at anything...Now at this point we must assuredly remember that this adultery committed with outcasts, so evident in our midst and becoming so brazen and unchecked, is to a very great extent paving the way to hidden and secret assaults upon the chastity of women and boys of good family...The man whose appetite is insatiate in such things, when he finds there is no scarcity, no resistance, in this field, will have contempt for the easy conquest and scorn for a woman's love, as a thing too readily given — in fact, too utterly feminine — and will turn his assault against the male quarters, eager to befoul the youth who will very soon be magistrates and judges and generals, believing that in them he will find a kind of pleasure difficult and hard to procure. His state is like that of men who are addicted to drinking and wine-bibbing, who after long and steady drinking of unmixed wine, often lose their taste for it and create an artificial thirst by the stimulus of sweatings, salted foods, and condiments.”
Phrasing lifted from text numbered 133 through 152

http://demonax.info/doku.php?id=text:dio_chrysostom_orations_1-20#the_seventh_or_euboean_discourse

I will say this, a man or woman, married or not that live out fantasies could well be in violation of God's intent of the sanctity of marriage. Basically the Holiness of marriage. Because they traded in the Holiness of what the marriage should be for a fantasy.