No Human has Gone to Heaven but Jesus!

[Rhema]

Can you explain to me where Enoch Elijah and Moses are please?

Dead in their graves Bill.

 

[Garee]

I completely agree and believe with the statement that no one has ever gone to heaven - except the Lord Jesus Christ and himself alone.. him alone, has ascended up into heaven.

but.... I do understand that many Christians do believe that today there are people already in heaven at this very moment and I understand their faith and would like to discuss this as much as possible.....


please consider my perspective from a scripture standpoint and allow me to mention a few highlights from the Bible

could it be that the the Souls Under The Altar are like Abel , by faith Abel was righteous and Able being dead yet speaketh. - Gen 4:10 - The voice of Abel’s blood cried out unto God from the ground.

The souls under the Altar are a Symbolic Of souls who are waiting the resurrection. And God gives their souls white robes commanding them that they should rest / SLEEP - until their fellow brothers are killed also

i would offer corrupted flesh and blood dying mankind could never enter the third heaven. no dying human to include the Son of man Jesus. No one has ever gone to the third heaven the invisible presence of eternal God.

Many try to put a literal face on invisible God.as if God was dying mankind.

It reveals they have no powerful faith that comes from Christ's labor of love that could please the faithful Father creator

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Dead corrupt things have no ability to create incorruption living things

The voice of Abel’s blood (new spirit) cried out unto God from the dead) In that way (Hebrew 11:39) all die not received the promise of new incorruptible bodies. Neither male nor female, jew nor gentile

 

[B-A-C]

no dying human to include the Son of man Jesus. No one has ever gone to the third heaven the invisible presence of eternal God.

A doctrine of demons.

But Jesus isn't "dying". He is raised incorruptible, as Christians will be.

 

[Garee]

A doctrine of demons.

But Jesus isn't "dying". He is raised incorruptible, as Christians will be.

Yes Jesus the Christ the teaching anointing Holy Spirit of the Father. Eternal God cannot die.

In order to show as a sign to the unbelieving world he could not die he demonstrated his eternal power working in the Son of man dying Jesus.

Christ pouring out His Holy Spirit on dying flesh and blood in jeopardy of his own Holy Spirit life ..

My favorite demonstration of the three during the three days and nights demonstration is the first part the garden of Gethsemane a metaphor of the garden of Eden. There is the fulfilling of two prophecies two witnesses the prophecy of the bruised heel "parable". Genesis 3:15 mixed with Isaiah 53 .

The Father striking the son bruising his heel. . . crushing the head of the serpent... The power of the gospel the promised work of two empowered by one Christ the husband.

Three times suffering as the Father bruised the heel of Jesus, Jesus the Son of man the apostle woke up the other apostles three times for help in his agony, three time the Holy Father put them to sleep in order to fulfil the two prophecies of the dynamic dual The father and Son team.

Then the Holy Father awoke them, and they moved to the second demonstration the bloody hill of Skull and last the tomb demonstration. All three working as one promised demonstration

 

[B-A-C]

To many rabbit trails and diversions... the fact remains.

1. Jesus’s Blood in the Heavenly Temple​

Hebrews 9:11–12 (NASB95):

"But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption."

Hebrews 9:23–24 (NASB95):

"Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us."

---

2. Without Shedding of Blood, No Forgiveness​

Hebrews 9:22 (NASB95):

"And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness."

Jesus had flesh and bone.

Luke 24:39 (NASB95):​

“See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

Jesus will return, exactly the same way He left.

Acts 1:11 (NASB95):​

"They also said, 'Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.'"

He wasn't taken up as a Spirit, He won't return as a Spirit.

Revelation 1:7 (NASB95):​

"Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen."

You can't see a Spirit. But everyone will see Jesus. (even the unbelievers 'who pierced Him')

 

[B-A-C]

1 John 4:1–3 (NASB95):​

1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

In the New American Standard Bible 1995 (NASB95), Psalm 16:10 reads:

“For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol;
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.”

This verse is indeed echoed in the New Testament, specifically in Acts 2:27, where the Apostle Peter quotes it during his sermon at Pentecost, applying it to Jesus' resurrection. Here's how it appears in Acts 2:27 (NASB95):

“Because You will not abandon my soul to Hades,
Nor allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.”

Yes our human flesh will decay and die. Jesus's wont.

 

[B-A-C]

Can you explain to me where Enoch Elijah and Moses are please?

Genesis 5:24 (NASB95)

"Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him."

Hebrews 11:5 (NASB95)

"By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God."

Enoch isn't dead. On the other hand, it doesn't specifically say he is with God.

2 Kings 2:11 (NASB95)

"As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven."

Malachi 4:5–6 (NASB95)

“Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord. He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse.”

Elijah doesn't appear to be dead, but if he is... he won't stay dead.


Moses is trickier. He is the only one of the three, that actually died.

Deuteronomy 34:5–6 (NASB95)​

"So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, in accordance with the word of the Lord. And He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor; but no one knows his burial place to this day."

 

[Dave M]

John 3:13 "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

now when Jesus said this, obviously it was true, for we all believe Jesus.

I think the first point I would like to make is that when Jesus said this, everyone who died was going to one side or another to Abraham's Bosom.

But what about after Jesus died, and rose ! did he open the door to heaven? did people go to heaven? do people go to heaven?

I know of 3 examples of the top of my head that people have gone to heaven or are going to heaven ,,since the death of Jesus.

1. Paul we see went to heaven------- 2 Corinthians 12:2-4---

2. The martyrs under the throne of God, asking when will he take vengeance ----- -Revelation 6:9

3. All those that came out of the great tribulation from every tribe and nation. ---- . Revelation 7:9-14

It seems there is also some scripture that suggest but maybe does not come right out and plainly say, but it suggest that Jesus went to Abraham's Bosom and preached to the captives on Abraham's good side and then lead them to heaven. The reason I believe this is because Jesus died for them, paying the price for there sins, before Jesus Died they were not allowed in heaven for no price had been paid. But now the price was and is paid, so we have a way to heaven through Jesus paying the price for our sins.

this a great video explaining it, you have to have face book I think

4.4M views · 142K reactions | This is a PERFECT description of what "Paradise" was in the Old Testament! Pretty interesting stuff. Even the Old Testament believers and saints were presented with the gospel by Jesus Himself! Michael Pearl, well don

This is a PERFECT description of what "Paradise" was in the Old Testament! Pretty interesting stuff. Even the Old Testament believers and saints were presented with the gospel by Jesus Himself!...

www.facebook.com

 

[Christ4Ever]

now when Jesus said this, obviously it was true, for we all believe Jesus.

I think the first point I would like to make is that when Jesus said this, everyone who died was going to one side or another to Abraham's Bosom.

But what about after Jesus died, and rose ! did he open the door to heaven? did people go to heaven? do people go to heaven?

I know of 3 examples of the top of my head that people have gone to heaven or are going to heaven ,,since the death of Jesus.

1. Paul we see went to heaven------- 2 Corinthians 12:2-4---

2. The martyrs under the throne of God, asking when will he take vengeance ----- -Revelation 6:9

3. All those that came out of the great tribulation from every tribe and nation. ---- . Revelation 7:9-14

It seems there is also some scripture that suggest but maybe does not come right out and plainly say, but it suggest that Jesus went to Abraham's Bosom and preached to the captives on Abraham's good side and then lead them to heaven. The reason I believe this is because Jesus died for them, paying the price for there sins, before Jesus Died they were not allowed in heaven for no price had been paid. But now the price was and is paid, so we have a way to heaven through Jesus paying the price for our sins.

this a great video explaining it, you have to have face book I think

4.4M views · 142K reactions | This is a PERFECT description of what "Paradise" was in the Old Testament! Pretty interesting stuff. Even the Old Testament believers and saints were presented with the gospel by Jesus Himself! Michael Pearl, well don

This is a PERFECT description of what "Paradise" was in the Old Testament! Pretty interesting stuff. Even the Old Testament believers and saints were presented with the gospel by Jesus Himself!...

www.facebook.com

I found the Michael Pearl on youtube. Might help those who don't get FB.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[B-A-C]

now when Jesus said this, obviously it was true, for we all believe Jesus.

The only passage I can see that supports this is...

Eph 4:8 Therefore it says, "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN."
Eph 4:9 (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.)

Now notice... verses 9 and 10 are in parenthesis, meaning they weren't in the original texts. I myself wouldn't build a doctrine on those verses.

I would contrast this with several verses that say we will rise on the "last day".

John 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 11:24 Martha *said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."

Also...

Acts 2:34 "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: 'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD, "SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,

I would say this verse was written after Jesus ascended.

 

[Garee]

To many rabbit trails and diversions... the fact remains.

1. Jesus’s Blood in the Heavenly Temple​

Hebrews 9:11–12 (NASB95):


Hebrews 9:23–24 (NASB95):

---

2. Without Shedding of Blood, No Forgiveness​

Hebrews 9:22 (NASB95):



Jesus had flesh and bone.

Luke 24:39 (NASB95):​

Jesus will return, exactly the same way He left.

Acts 1:11 (NASB95):​

He wasn't taken up as a Spirit, He won't return as a Spirit.

Revelation 1:7 (NASB95):​

You can't see a Spirit. But everyone will see Jesus. (even the unbelievers 'who pierced Him')

Literal blood like literal water a metaphor used in parables They represent the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on dying corrupted flesh and blood in jeopardy of his own Holy Spirit life.

Without Shedding of Blood, (pouring out of Holy Spirit). . . No Forgiveness

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Eternal God is not a temporal man as us.

 

[Garee]

I found the Michael Pearl on youtube. Might help those who don't get FB.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

The word hell represents the suffering we suffer in these earthen bodies of death. Death the one appointment all makes on time.

It was demonstrated in two parables working as one . Jonas three days and night compared to the companion the Son of man Jesus three days and nights the suffering . . .not dead. . . by his wounds we are healed of an eternal debt

Not dead (unto death) but a living sacrifice called "belly of the whale" or in the same way "heart of the heart of earth" Like the blood of Abel crying out from corrupted dying suffering earth crying for a new body neither male nor female Jew nor gentile the wife of Christ the faithful creator

Leave the digging up dead bones to the unbelieving evolutionist or Roman Catholic like when they dug up Pope Formoso the tenth. century. Dresed then bones up with a little Colone. Judged those dead bones and sent them around the circuit to be venerated. Therefore, revealing their pagan, reincarnation religious belief. . (Out of sight out of mind) God calls fools .

Believe God, not dying men seen

 

[Bill]

Dead in their graves Bill.

Maybe you'd like to join me in Jerusalem when I go there, then the doubting Thomas inside of you will disappear

 

[Bill]

Genesis 5:24 (NASB95)


Hebrews 11:5 (NASB95)



Enoch isn't dead. On the other hand, it doesn't specifically say he is with God.

2 Kings 2:11 (NASB95)



Malachi 4:5–6 (NASB95)



Elijah doesn't appear to be dead, but if he is... he won't stay dead.


Moses is trickier. He is the only one of the three, that actually died.

Deuteronomy 34:5–6 (NASB95)​

I would say it's a matter of Faith where God took him, meaning Enoch

 

[Bill]

Genesis 5:24 (NASB95)


Hebrews 11:5 (NASB95)



Enoch isn't dead. On the other hand, it doesn't specifically say he is with God.

2 Kings 2:11 (NASB95)



Malachi 4:5–6 (NASB95)



Elijah doesn't appear to be dead, but if he is... he won't stay dead.


Moses is trickier. He is the only one of the three, that actually died.

Deuteronomy 34:5–6 (NASB95)​

I could argue the point that the thief on the cross went to Paradise With Jesus. But I'm sure that those that believe that they didn't go to heaven would argue the fact that Jesus didn't say that he went to heaven that he only went to Paradise so therefore Paradise in Heaven Must Be two different places. I swear people are so ignorant when it comes to being so picky about the words in the scripture regarding heaven and Hell and other things man it just drives me freaking nuts

 

[Rhema]

2. Without Shedding of Blood, No Forgiveness

Not according to John the Baptist and his cousin Jesus.... (just this unknown author)

John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.​

(Mark 1:4 NRSV)

No hint whatsoever for the shedding of any animal blood. And if all that shedding stuff was truly true, then why would John even preach this?

Same with Jesus.

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.​

(Mark 1:14-15 KJV)

And Peter:

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

(Acts 2:37-38 KJV)

I do hope you'd pray about it.

Agape,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Enoch isn't dead. On the other hand, it doesn't specifically say he is with God.

No, it specifically says that he was NOT.

Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him.​

(Genesis 5:24 NRSV)

He was no more anywhere (or else he would have been not no more).

Agape,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Maybe you'd like to join me in Jerusalem when I go there, then the doubting Thomas inside of you will disappear

If you're paying. Sure.

But I don't doubt.

The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no more reward, and even their memory is lost. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished; never again will they have any share in all that happens under the sun.​

(Ecclesiastes 9:5-6)

God is not the God of the dead. Now if the dead were alive somewhere, then God would be the God of the dead.

With God's help, one day you'll get it.

Rhema

Oh wait, you think you're one of those two prophets, is that it? How come I've met more than three of these online so far? (Do let me know if I'm mistaken.)

 

[Rhema]

it just drives me freaking nuts

As it does me, those who think a parable is literal history, science and physics.

God bless,
Rhema

 

[Garee]

Not according to John the Baptist and his cousin Jesus.... (just this unknown author)

John the baptizer appeared in the wilderness, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.​

(Mark 1:4 NRSV)

No hint whatsoever for the shedding of any animal blood. And if all that shedding stuff was truly true, then why would John even preach this?

Same with Jesus.

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.​

(Mark 1:14-15 KJV)

And Peter:

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.​

(Acts 2:37-38 KJV)

I do hope you'd pray about it.

Agape,
Rhema

By adding to sola scriptura, you take away the gospel.

It is because shedding of certain animal blood.as a ceremonial law (parable) that shedding stuff was a necessary sign to the non redeemed world .

Believers have prophecy (sola scriptura) till the end of time

Believers have prophecy no need for signs

Aarons two sons on the first day as priests as a sign to the whole unbelieving world and not a sign unto themself, after symbolically baptized they added to (sola scriptura) with what is called judgment fire It consumed them not a hint of smoke on the priestly attire.

In that way without parables Christ spoke not.

It's not that hard to understand your goal is self-righteousness making it about what you do (baptism)not what he did. Christ the husband is not served by the dying hands as a will.

He can move a unbeliever signified as an Ass to preach the gospel as easily as one that does believe. according to the parable below.

Exodus 13:13 And every firstling of an ass (unbelievers)thou shalt redeem with a lamb (Chrsit) ; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem

The other witness (Exodus 34:20).of the work of sent apostles (Asses )represented as non-redeemed coming with prophecy

Two are needed at the witness of one no doctrine can be established

Numbers 22:28 And the Lord opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

The same as those in Mathew 7 that did do wonderful works preaching the gospel in the name of Christ .But he never knew them workers of iniquity he did not send them like he did send Balaam Ass.

Your gospel as you said in another post ; You actually need to seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit. When it happens, you'll know.

When it happens, you'll know.( just trust yourself like Aarons two sons )