The Tribulation Isn’t What You Think — and Jesus Never Taught a Rapture Escape Plan

[Dave M]

Perhaps all these comments come the lack of understanding on which
kingdom is what; and for Whom? 1-Kingdom Of Heaven, which was for Isreal Only. The Kingdom Of God, which is for This Age.
These Two, yet very different Kingdoms are generally overlooked. Yet, should not be!

maybe you can explain who Israel is to you? i

is it the pharisees who Jesus said your father is the devil? is the people of this Israel that you are speaking of

or is maybe the 200,00 people that called themselves Israelite that were in the desert for 40 years that God killed,, he had the earth swallow them up because they were disobedient.

How is,,, that the gospel for the church for both Jew and Gentile use these terms interchangeable. Yet you see it meaning a difference? could it be you are mistaken ?

DO you have scripture to support your theory?

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

THE BOOK OF REVELATION

How does It start??
The Revelation of Jesus Christ. How did He get? God gave It to HIM. Was It's Purpose? To show TO HIS SEVANTS --THINGS -- That MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS.

Dose that mean Those Things are for the present age? HARDLY! Yet Today people keep tang what was written for Isreal, IN THAT AGE ; AND FORCING IT INTO THIS AGE!
Are believers Today a part of THOSE JEWS? Of course not ! Yet This Text keeps being taken out Its contexts!
What was For Isreal, and To Isreal; should be left that way! What About, There is no condemnation; for Those in Christ Jesus?

Notice it says: THOSE IN CHSTI JESUS! It does not say, Those in Jesus Christ. Why the difference? Jeus was Who? Who did Peter say Jesus was? What id Jesus say to Peter after He said It? What does the seedline in Matthew say about Jesus; who He was?
It would be interesting to see the comments about This.

DEEPSEEKER

“Your comment seems to show lack of knowledge for what I do know, and understand.”

Let me stop you right there — no one cares how many years you’ve been seeking. The Pharisees studied Scripture their whole lives too — and still crucified the Word made flesh standing in front of them. Long study without the Spirit doesn’t make you wise. It makes you twice the son of Hell (Matt. 23:15).

“You have no idea of what I may fully understand...”

No, but I can see what you’ve said — and it’s a Scofield-Darby fever dream that splits the Kingdom of God in two, rewrites the identity of Israel, and dumps the teachings of Jesus into the “not for this age” trash bin. That’s not understanding — that’s deception dressed up as revelation.

“Be careful. The judgment you use shall be used for You!”

Oh, you mean Matthew 7:2? Cool — let's quote the rest of what Jesus said:

“You shall know them by their fruit.” (Matt. 7:16)
And what’s your fruit? Dividing Christ into separate kingdoms, denying the Church is Israel, and pretending Revelation isn’t for us — even though it was sent to the churches (Rev. 1:4, 1:11) and ends with a call to keep the words of the prophecy of this book (Rev. 22:7).

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ... To show His servants things that must shortly come to pass... Dose that mean Those Things are for the present age? HARDLY!”

Actually — YES. It explicitly says it’s for His servants, and unless you're claiming that modern Christians aren’t His servants, your entire premise just caught fire. Also:

“Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it.” (Rev. 1:3)
If Revelation isn’t for us, then Jesus is lying. You going to accuse the risen Lord of false advertising?

“Are believers Today a part of THOSE JEWS? Of course not!”

Then you’ve just rejected the Word of God:

“A Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart.” (Rom. 2:29)
“Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel.” (Rom. 9:6)
“If you are Christ’s, you are Abraham’s seed.” (Gal. 3:29)
“He made the two one.” (Eph. 2:14)

There is one people of God — not two. No separate plan. No race-based kingdom. The cross destroyed that wall — you’re rebuilding it.

“What was for Israel, and to Israel, should be left that way.”

No, sir. That’s dispensational blasphemy. The apostles didn’t leave the Gospel “for Israel only” — they preached it to the world. Paul said clearly,

“There is no longer Jew or Gentile… but all are one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:28)
If you put that wall back up, you’ve made Christ a servant of division, and His blood a tool of partiality — which is heresy.

“Notice it says: THOSE IN CHSTI JESUS! It does not say, Those in Jesus Christ.”

This is where your argument fully collapses into gibberish. You’re parsing a typo like it’s a divine code. Are you suggesting "Christ Jesus" and "Jesus Christ" are different people? This isn’t revelation — this is word salad with a side of delusion.

You’ve twisted prophecy, divided Christ, mutilated Israel, and now you’re playing crossword games with the name of the Lord. You’re not deep — you’re drowning in Scofield’s septic theology. And if you don't repent and come back to the actual Gospel, Jesus Himself will say:

“You nullify the Word of God for the sake of your tradition.” (Matt. 15:6)

One Body. One Kingdom. One Israel. One Christ.
Not the nonsense you're preaching.

Let me give you a history lesson your Scofield Study Bible never taught you:

For 1,800 years, not a single apostle, church father, bishop, reformer, or theologian believed your dispensational blasphemy. Every last one of them — from the men who walked with Jesus to the firebrands who faced down Rome would have looked you in the face and said:

“You don’t know what Israel is, you don’t know what the Church is, and you’ve fractured the Gospel into heresy.”

Here’s the full honor roll of those who would call you deceived — by name:

THE APOSTLES (1st Century)

Paul the Apostle – Romans 9–11: “Not all Israel is Israel… Gentiles are grafted in… One olive tree.”
Peter – 1 Peter 2:9-10: “You [the Church] are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation.”
John – Revelation 1:6: “He has made us [the Church] a kingdom and priests.”
James – Acts 15:15-17: quotes Amos and says it’s fulfilled now in the Church.
The Author of Hebrews – Hebrews 8: “The old covenant is obsolete.” (Goodbye, separate Jewish plan.)
Jesus Christ Himself – John 10:16: “One flock, one Shepherd.”

EARLY CHURCH FATHERS (1st–4th Century)

Ignatius of Antioch (c. 110 AD) – Called the Church “the new Israel” and warned of Judaizers.
Justin Martyr (c. 150 AD) – “We are the true Israel, spiritual Israel.”
Irenaeus (c. 180 AD) – Taught covenant fulfillment in Christ through the Church.
Tertullian (c. 200 AD) – Explicitly rejected any future Jewish kingdom.
Origen (c. 250 AD) – Affirmed the Church as the fulfillment of God’s promises.
Cyprian of Carthage (c. 250 AD) – Referred to the Church as the “true Zion.”
Athanasius (c. 325 AD) – Saw the Church as heir to Israel’s promises, not any future "national Israel".
Eusebius of Caesarea (c. 330 AD) – Taught that the Church is the prophesied Kingdom of God.

POST-NICENE GIANTS (4th–6th Century)

Augustine of Hippo (354–430 AD) – “The Church is the kingdom of God on earth.”
John Chrysostom (347–407 AD) – Preached against any future Jewish-centered age.
Jerome (347–420 AD) – Rejected literal millennialism and any Zionist interpretation.
Cyril of Jerusalem (313–386 AD) – Saw the Church as the continuation of Israel.

REFORMATION & POST-REFORMATION ERA (1500s–1700s)

Martin Luther – Rejected any return to Old Covenant Judaism: “The Jews have no special promise apart from Christ.”
John Calvin – “All the promises made to Israel are now fulfilled in the Church.”
John Knox – No hint of two peoples or two kingdoms.
Jonathan Edwards – Taught postmillennialism; Church is spiritual Israel.
The Westminster Confession (1646) – “The visible Church is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ.”
Matthew Henry – “The true Israel is the spiritual seed — the Church.”

NONE of these titans ever taught:

A “Church Age” separate from “Israel’s Kingdom Age”
A pre-trib rapture
A return to Jewish temple sacrifices
A split between the “Kingdom of Heaven” and “Kingdom of God”
That Revelation was “for Israel only”.
That national Israel will reign apart from Christ and the Church

WHO DID TEACH THAT GARBAGE?

John Nelson Darby – 1830s cult theology
C.I. Scofield – 1909 fraud with a criminal past and Zionist backers
Oxford University Press – Who mass printed Scofield’s Bible to reshape American Christianity
Rockefeller Foundation & Zionist financiers – Who weaponized Scofield’s heresy to turn the Church into a geopolitical pawn

You are not in the stream of historic Christianity.
You’re not aligned with Christ, Paul, or any apostle.
You’re not rooted in Church teaching.
You’re not continuing the Reformation.
You’re echoing a 19th-century lawyer’s Zionist-funded cult manual.

And if you think Revelation doesn’t apply to the Church — or that national, secular, False Israel™ (dirt) is still owed a throne — then you are under the veil of delusion Paul warned about in 2 Thessalonians 2:10-11. Israel is the Body of Christ. Period. The End.

“They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie.”

Time to choose:
Stand with the apostles — or stand with Scofield.
Because one built the Church on the Rock…
And the other built a doctrine on sand, lies, and Rothschild ink.

 

[Curtis]

How does One come to HEAR?

Anyone who "desires" to do the will of God, the Lord, will cause them to "hear" the voice of His Father.

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
Joh 7:17 If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.

 

[Leumas]

Anyone who "desires" to do the will of God, the Lord, will cause them to "hear" his voice.

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
Joh 7:17 If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.

What you quoted, is not conveying to the reader that if they desire to do the will of God that they will hear the voice of God. It means that if they desire to do the will of God then they will do the will of God and when they do the will of God they will know that that was the doctrine that Jesus was preaching, and had been given to him, by God to preach.

 

[Curtis]

then they will do the will of God and when they do the will of God they will know that that was the doctrine that Jesus was preaching, and head been given to him by God to preach.

How can a person "do" the will of God unless they "first" know the will of God, which comes by hearing?

 

[Leumas]

How can a person "do" the will of God unless they "first" know the will of God, which comes by hearing?

Well I guess for starters, they can ask someone like me, who knows the will of God. Or they can read what Jesus commanded them to do in the Bible to obey to which is the will of God.

For example
To love the Lord thy God with all thy heart with all thy mind with all thy soul and with all thy strength, is the will of God.

 

[Leumas]

That's really all you need to know you can throw away your Bible and just indulge and submerge yourself in obeying that one commandment, and everything else with you will be good with God. Everything else of God will fall right in line with you.

 

[Leumas]

In fact if you're not in compliance and in obedience at all times within that one commandment then you are living in sin.

 

[Leumas]

Now as Jesus told them I'm going to tell you submerging and indulge yourself at all times and never get out of that commandment and you will know it is the will of God, and you will know whether what I said to you is from God or whether I speak on my own authority.

 

[Deep Seeker]

I would like to add this to My comments concerning this topic.
Who did The Spirit Of sent to The Gentiles? For what purpose did He send HIM?
He sent the apostle Paul when Paul was on The Road to Damascus to persecute the Believing Jews.

That is when The Apostle Paul was converted in His belief; and was given His ministry to All who were to hear The Message given to Him to preach to all who would listen. The Jews, and The Gentiles. Prior to That Event;, Only the Jews had the message; and that message was about The Kingdom Of Heaven; NOT; The Kingdom of God. There is a vast difference! This, however, seems to get overlooked for the most part Today.
Just as many other things given to only Isreal are brought into Today's religions. the Two Kingdom messages cannot be mixed together and still give The Truth!
Search the scriptures and notice the differences between These Two messages!

 

[Deep Seeker]

In fact if you're not in compliance and in obedience at all times within that one commandment then you are living in sin.

 

[Leumas]

I would like to add this to My comments concerning this topic.
Who did The Spirit Of sent to The Gentiles? For what purpose did He send HIM?
He sent the apostle Paul when Paul was on The Road to Damascus to persecute the Believing Jews.

That is when The Apostle Paul was converted in His belief; and was given His ministry to All who were to hear The Message given to Him to preach to all who would listen. The Jews, and The Gentiles. Prior to That Event;, Only the Jews had the message; and that message was about The Kingdom Of Heaven; NOT; The Kingdom of God. There is a vast difference! This, however, seems to get overlooked for the most part Today.
Just as many other things given to only Isreal are brought into Today's religions. the Two Kingdom messages cannot be mixed together and still give The Truth!
Search the scriptures and notice the differences between These Two messages!

You better think again, deep thinker, I do believe your thinker is not working properly.

Mark 16:15 and Jesus said unto them, go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.

A gentile is a creature.

 

[Deep Seeker]

I asked You: Which commandment? Did The Spirit Of God give commandments to follow Today? Or does He give The Spirit Of Truth, to guides Us?

 

[Leumas]

Like I've always tell people especially them that rely upon anyone other than the Holy Ghost for the truth, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Leumas]

I asked You: Which commandment? Did The Spirit Of God give commandments to follow Today? Or does He give The Spirit Of Truth, to guides Us?

All of God's commandments, are written on my heart. They have become second nature to me. And the Spirit of Truth, wrote them up on my heart

 

[Garee]

Perhaps all these comments come the lack of understanding on which
kingdom is what; and for Whom? 1-Kingdom Of Heaven, which was for Isreal Only. The Kingdom Of God, which is for This Age.
These Two, yet very different Kingdoms are generally overlooked. Yet, should not be!

it would seem more of a lack of understnding as to how the word Kingdom is used. Kingdom is power or authority

Remember not all Israel is born again Israel, some remained under Jacob the deceiver

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel (born again)

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

And also the invisible Father in Isiah 62 renamed his bride once called her Israel to a new name Christian A more befitting name to name the bride of every nation

Sounds like you are confused to the meaning of the word Jew. If you do not know its meaning than neither, can you know the meaning of Isreal

Romans 2:28-29; For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter(death); whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The kingdom or authority of God has two witnesses working as one. One the temporal historical earthly "what the eyes see" the dying things of this world and two the eternal invisible "what the eyes see not".They must be mixed,

Called the law or kingdom of faith the unseen (let there be) and (it was good)

The just letter "Let there be" and the justifier .The testimony of the unseen word was "God alone good ".

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just,(what the eyes do not see heavenly) and the justifier what they (eyes do see earthly ) of him which believeth in Jesus.

The Kingdom of darkness one sided. What the eyes see the temporal.

What you see is what you get. Paganism "out of sight out of mind " no eternal vision

 

[Deep Seeker]

I received a reply to One of My comments which said in part: "Jesus is One of the creatures. Was Jesus a creature, or was He the Son of Man?
And if He was the Son Of Man, which Man?
Mth. 1:1 gives the seed line for Jesus. It states that He was of the descendants of DAVID. David was A Man; hence, the son of The Man, David through that linage.

In fact if you're not in compliance and in obedience at all times within that one commandment then you are living in sin.

Does this mean that One must be perfect ? ?
DeepSeeker

 

[Garee]

I received a reply to One of My comments which said in part: "Jesus is One of the creatures. Was Jesus a creature, or was He the Son of Man?
And if He was the Son Of Man, which Man?
Mth. 1:1 gives the seed line for Jesus. It states that He was of the descendants of DAVID. David was A Man; hence, the son of The Man, David through that linage.

Mankind is a "Let there be creature". Sons or daughters of mankind can become born again sons of God.

The seed singular is in respect to our unseen Holy Father Christ ..

Spiritual eternal not seen .

Galatians 3:1 Now to Abraham and his (Christ's not seen ) seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds (flesh), as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

That born again seed began in with Abel a second born to represent mankind must be born again from above .Cain moved by the father of lies murdered the second born, born again Abel. God proving a person must be born agin from above replace the second born Abel with another second born Enos.it was the and not before that born again mankind could look to Abba or adopting Holy Father

Genisis 4:25-26And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.;And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

Moses was one of the many second born believers used to pass down the spiritual born again seed .

Onan spilled his seeing no value in the invisible things of God .Esau sold his first birthright for a cup of hairy goat soup also seeing not value in the first born spiritual seed matters

David God's choice for a king. Earthly kings not Gods design. . . Kings in Israel (the abomination of desolation). Atheist Jew refusing to worship a Invisible King of kings. Saul the people's choice.

David number eight a word that goes beyond perfection seven.

Ecclesiastes 11:1-3Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days.Give a portion to seven, and also to eight; for thou knowest not what evil shall be upon the earth.

David was hidden out in the field it would seem the family was embarrassed of the dreamer writing poetry that stilled the waters of life .

Psalm 23:2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

The Holy Father showing his first born from above Jesus the Son of man using Eight

David like the son of man Jesus both of their own family deserted hiding the parable understanding that stills the water of confusion

 

[Jesua888]

So wel

You’re not alone. A lot of believers are wrestling with this, especially because we've been handed a disjointed story that doesn't come from the Bible — it comes from Scofield’s Dispensationalist system.

To answer your question: No, the Scofield Bible doesn’t spell it out exactly like:

“Remove the Church, Reinstate the Mosaic covenant, and pretend God has two bridegrooms…”

But that's exactly what it teaches when you follow the logic to its conclusion. Here’s how:

It says the Church gets “raptured” out of the way.
Then God goes back to dealing with Israel through Mosaic-style laws, sacrifices, and temple worship during a 7-year tribulation.
Meanwhile, Jesus is supposedly preparing to marry the Church after already having a separate covenant and plan for national Israel.

That’s two peoples, two covenants, and functionally — two brides.
But Scripture says the exact opposite.

“There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope… one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all…” — Ephesians 4:4–6

Now about the Jewish wedding parallel…

Yes — it’s a beautiful picture:

The Groom proposes,
Goes away to prepare a place,
Then comes unexpectedly to claim His Bride.

That imagery absolutely applies to Christ and His Church — it’s all over Scripture (John 14:2–3, Matt. 25:1–13, Rev. 19:7).

But here’s the key:
The Bride is not just Gentiles.
The Bride is everyone — Jew and Gentile — who belongs to Christ.

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, heirs according to the promise.” — Galatians 3:29

So the idea that Jesus has one bride made of Gentile believers, and then a separate covenant relationship with unbelieving ethnic Jews, turns that beautiful wedding metaphor into a spiritual affair.

It guts the Gospel of its unity and replaces it with Zionist-flavored polygamy.

The real Bride?
She’s composed of every man and woman redeemed by the blood of Jesus — from every tribe, tongue, and nation (Revelation 5:9).

Christ doesn’t have two brides.
He has one Bride, one Body, one Spirit, and one eternal covenant — sealed in His blood, not by race.

And let’s be real:
When people keep obsessing over “ethnic Jews,” it’s not just bad theology — it’s delusion.

Most of the people in modern Israel aren’t even biblical Israelites.
They’re Gentile converts — Khazars, Ashkenazim, and others — with zero genetic connection to Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob.

So when Scofield-programmed evangelicals start shouting about “God’s chosen people,” it’s like wandering into an mental asylum where everyone’s arguing over who gets the inheritance from a fake family tree.

You don’t get covenant blessings without the Covenant-Maker.
And you sure as hell don’t get to claim Abraham’s covenant if you reject Abraham’s God.

“Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.” — Galatians 3:7

If you spit on the Messiah, the blood of Abraham means nothing.
And in most cases today — they don’t even have that blood to begin with.

Bottom line:

No Christ?
No covenant.
Period.

So well answered Thank You : )

 

[Jesua888]

• In the Hebrew Bible, "Israel" was the name given to Jacob, the son of Isaac and grandson of Abraham, after he wrestled with a divine being (an angel or God) and prevailed.
• The name "Israel" is often interpreted as "wrestles with God" or "one who struggles with God".
• The descendants of Jacob/Israel became known as the Israelites or the "Children of Israel".
• They formed the twelve tribes of Israel and eventually established the Kingdom of Israel.

After the fullness of the gentiles has come into being the body of Christ (this also includes some Jews) God will turn his attention towards Israel in which he called them his elect in the Old Testament. This will happen during the great tribulation period which is why God anoints the 144,000 Jews to proclaim the Gospel to them. Many of them will come to faith in Jesus. Not only will there be Jews but also many Gentiles will come to faith also.. It will be the largest revival in human history. The church today will not be there it will have already been raptured to God. The culmination will end with Jesus second coming along with all his saints to execute judgement and to set up his 1000 year rule.

"the church today will not be there it willhave already been raptured to God" ... a couple of years ago I joined a bible group in the park, and felt that the leader was a bit of a dictator. He kept referring the church, and I asked for clarification ... I asked many questions, and was told that the group had taken a bread (never heard of again?). Well, I still have a problem with the manmade "church" and God's Church, which is his Bride or His Believers. The same thing could be said about "Israel" ... Jacob was named Israel by God, and it is understood that Israel are God's people, not the land Israel that is so named today. Could this misunderstanding or apparent contradictions be as a result of the Schofied Bible narrative!?