Possibly the greatest post of all time...

[The Gospel of Christ]

"What the Catholics Get Right

Salvation Plan: One covenant, fulfilled in Christ — not two tracks for Jew and Gentile

Rapture: Rejected; Christ returns once, publicly, at the end of the age — not in secret phases. This was the belief of the early Church Fathers.

Israel: Fulfilled in the Church. There is no separate, ongoing plan for ethnic Israel apart from the Gospel.
If someone calls themselves a Jew but rejects Jesus as the Messiah, they are outside the covenant of salvation — just like anyone else who refuses Him. Catholic teaching, like Scripture, is clear: no one is saved apart from Christ.

Covenant History: Progressive revelation fulfilled in Jesus — not cut into dispensations

Prophecy: Interpreted through typology, Christological fulfillment, and the Church Age


Where the Catholic Church Goes Off the Rails

Vatican Power Structure: Corrupted hierarchy; functions more like a political empire than a spiritual body

Idolatry and Ritualism: Veneration of saints and Mary can cross into worship territory

Works-Based Legalism: Overemphasis on sacraments and tradition as necessary for salvation

Mystery Religion Symbols: Pagan architecture, serpent imagery, and globalist interfaith compromises

Scripture Access: Historically limited lay access to the Bible; elevated papal authority above scripture


What Dispensationalist Evangelicals Get Right

Authority of Scripture: The Bible is the final and highest authority, not popes or church councils

Born Again Doctrine: Emphasis on personal salvation through faith in Jesus Christ

Evangelism: Urgent focus on spreading the Gospel to all nations

Rejection of Ritualism: Values relationship with Christ over empty tradition

Role of the Holy Spirit: Acknowledges the active presence and power of the Holy Spirit in believers


What Dispensationalist Evangelicals Get Horribly Wrong (Thanks to Scofield Heresy)

Two Plans of Salvation: Claims Jews have a separate covenant path — undermines the sufficiency of Christ

Pre-Trib Rapture: Teaches an unbiblical two-phase return of Jesus based on cherry-picked verses

Political Zionism as “God’s Will”: Confuses modern secular Israel with the true, biblical people of God — even though the nation as a whole rejects Jesus Christ. It doesn’t even dawn on most brainwashed Dispensationalists that over 98% of modern “Israelis” are Ashkenazi — descendants of Eastern Europeans and Russians who have no historical or genetic connection to Abraham whatsoever. They're about as related to Abraham as Hulk Hogan, SpongeBob and Genghis Khan.

Church as Parenthesis: Treats the Church Age as an interruption instead of the fulfillment of prophecy

Artificial Bible Division: Uses Scofield’s man-made footnotes to override clear New Testament teaching


The Bottom Line:

The Catholic Church preserved covenant theology and rejected the blasphemous, Scofield circus — but compromised it with institutional corruption, idolatry, and works-based tradition.

The Evangelical world rediscovered Scripture and the born-again life — but got seduced by Scofield’s dual-covenant, Zionist distortion that fractures the Gospel.

Both systems need to be reformed by the authority of Christ and the clarity of His Word.

To the lost Dispensationalists, I'll leave you with this...

The true Israel is the Body of Christ — one people, one covenant, one King. If you're a so-called "Christian" and you don't know that; you're beyond misled.

You’re not just lost — you’re way out in the wilderness of Nod, stumbling through darkness and delusion.
There’s a veil over your eyes and a bewitching on your soul —
and honestly, it might be the most biblical level of deception the modern Church has ever witnessed.
Jesus and the Apostles are looking down from heaven — eyebrows raised, faces in their hands — stunned at how far off the path you’ve wandered.

“But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Covenant, because the veil is taken away in Christ.” — 2 Corinthians 3:14

You’re clinging to the shadows of a covenant that was fulfilled 2,000 years ago —
propping up a U.N.-sanctioned, Rothschild-created political state,
as if salvation lives in dirt and barbed wire,
totally ignorant of the fact that the true Israel is the Body of Christ.
Paul saw it coming. He warned us.
The veil still lies over your heart because you refuse to turn fully to Christ.
You’re not reading prophecy — you’re reading it wrong.
And until you stop exalting the letter over the Lord,
you’ll stay exactly where you are:
veiled, bewitched, and wandering east of Eden."

 

[Gothedral]

hell on earth < Love one another.

 

[Garee]

Covenant History: Progressive revelation fulfilled in Jesus — not cut into dispensations

Prophecy: Interpreted through typology, Christological fulfillment, and the Church Age

Through typology without parables Christ the one spiritual seed spoke not,

Yes, no dispensations. God though His Faithtfull works or labor of love ("let there be" and its testimony "it was God alone good"

He works through the same labor of His love in the hearts of sons of God in any generation

The church age began with Able the martyr the second born murdered by the first-born Cain.

God replace Able with another second born defining the "you must be born again" doctrine

It was then with Enos another second born . . that born again men began could call on Christ the husband.

The one seed (spiritual not seen) Christ

Genesis 4:25-26;And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

 

[B-A-C]

Yes, no dispensations. God though His Faithtfull works or labor of love ("let there be" and its testimony "it was God alone good"

Not everything was good.

Gen 2:18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."

Yes, no dispensations.

Heb 8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Heb 9:15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

If only this guy had his own church.. I'd send in $100,000 tomorrow.

"Exactly — we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.
So why do you talk like God’s promises failed, and the Church is Him stalling for time?
So now the Cross is Plan B, and the Temple gets a sequel? That’s blasphemy.
The Church — bought with His blood — is not a timeout until the Pharisees get their act together. That’s not the Gospel — it’s denial.

The Evangelicals say they're Christian, yet deny that Christ is the fulfillment? That’s not faith — that’s open rebellion.
You think the Son of God conquered death, disarmed principalities, sat down at the right hand of the Father —
only to wait around for a third temple with blood soaked floors and a red heifer?

You insult the Cross when you treat the Church like a detour.
You trample the blood of the Lamb when you preach two covenants.
You call yourself a Christian while denying that Christ is the fulfillment?
That’s not faith.
That’s apostasy wearing a Jesus T-shirt.

He said "It. Is. Finished."
Those were His words.
Not “To be continued.” Not “Pending Israel’s response.”
Finished.

The veil was torn.
The temple was judged.
The sacrifice was made once for all — not to be repeated, not to be paused, not to be overridden by some end-times real estate deal in the Middle East.

And yet they dare call it a postponement.
You teach that the Cross was a speed bump, that the resurrection launched a Plan B,
that the Bride of Christ is a temporary insert —
a parenthesis —
until the Sanhedrin gets their act together?

You exalt a political nation that crucified the Lord of glory —
and then turn around and say the Church must decrease so ethnic Israel can rise?

That’s not the Gospel.
That’s not prophecy.
That’s spiritual treason.

You twist the New Covenant into a waiting room.
You trample the blood of Christ beneath the footnotes of Scofield.
You deny the very One you claim to preach, while waving the flag of those who still reject Him.

He said “This cup is the new covenant in My blood.”
Not in U.N. borders.
Not in genealogies.
Not in a rebuilt temple that He Himself destroyed.

You preach like the Cross failed.
Like Pentecost wasn’t enough.
Like God’s Spirit in His people is somehow inferior to brick and stone in Jerusalem.

You grieve the Spirit of Truth.
You resurrect the shadows He died to fulfill.
You call yourself a Christian — but deny Christ at every turn.

Paul said:
“If righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.” — Galatians 2:21

And here you are —
preaching that righteousness will return through the law,
through animal sacrifice,
through a rebuilt temple,
through a national False Israel™ — a Rothschild & U.N. creation propped up by political Zionism and Christian ignorance.

Do you hear yourselves?
You are saying:
“Yeah, the blood of Jesus was powerful… but just wait until the Levitical priesthood comes back!”

You are shouting:
“Yeah, the veil was torn… but we’re gonna stitch it back together with red heifers and a third temple covered in blood!”

That’s not theology.
That’s blasphemy dipped in Scofield’s ink.
It’s Anti-Christ doctrine in a suit and tie, waving a dual-covenant chart.

You speak of the Church like a detour —
but she is the Bride.
The Body.
The very temple of the Holy Spirit.
Not a placeholder — the plan.

This isn’t a debate.
This is a warning.

Repent.
Turn from the lies of Dispensationalism.
Tear down your Zionist idols and return to the Gospel that saves.
The kingdom is not of this world.
The true Israel is not dirt or a flag.
And the Messiah will not return to a temple He already judged and left desolate.

He is coming again — but not to restart what He finished.
He is coming in glory to receive His Bride.
And if you’re not in it — you’re not ready."

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

This guy absolutely needs his own TV show..

"Now here’s the other official figures — the one no one dares mention:

Nearly 100% of them are not ethnic Biblical Jews.
They are not descended from Jacob.
They are not Biblical Israelites.
They are not related to Abraham.
They are not Semitic.
And they are absolutely not “the chosen people of God.”

These are Khazars, Russians, and Eastern Europeans — a warlike, pagan people who were force-converted to Talmudic Judaism in 740 A.D., under pressure from King Bulan, not out of reverence for Moses or the prophets, but at the edge of King Bulan’s sword.

Ask their ancestors back then to walk to Israel in 740 A.D?
They wouldn’t even know which direction to start.
They’d probably wander out of the Caucasus and end up in Siberia.

And yet today’s Evangelicals wave the Star of Remphan over their churches, plaster Zionist symbols on their pulpits, and dare to call it “biblical prophecy.”
No — it’s not prophecy. It’s delusion.
A deception so deep, it trades the Gospel of Christ for the gospel of geopolitics, and bows to a flag that mocks the cross.

The Khazars didn’t embrace the faith of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
They didn’t fall to their knees in repentance before the God of Israel.
They were absorbed — forcefully — into a man-made religion,
not rooted in the Torah, but built on the Babylonian Talmud:
a blasphemous tome that's so anti-Christ,
it makes Roman paganism look tame by comparison.

The Torah in their system? It’s a prop. A backdrop. Not the foundation.

And yet modern Christians — especially Scofield-drunk Evangelicals — dare to call these people “God’s chosen”?

It’s not just wrong.
It’s theological madness.
It’s spiritual suicide.

And here’s the most twisted part…

They know.
The Rothschilds know.
The globalist elite know.
And they laugh —
As Christians bow before a Christ-rejecting state,
wave its flag like it’s holy,
bless a machine built on deception,
and celebrate the very Zionist engine that would crucify Christ again — and again — and again — if given the chance.

Satan basks in the sun of Dispensationalist ignorance.. He is well-fed from churches where Scofield’s lies are preached — for every ‘Israel-first’ sermon is a feast of betrayal, served warm from the pulpit."

 

[Garee]

Not everything was good.

Gen 2:18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."

Yes, not everything was until he made it good bringing a help meet .

Heb 8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Heb 9:15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

Yes, a better fulfilled covenant beginning with Abel the second born the first apostle martyr.

The old letter of the law. Thou shall not add or you will surely die. It was destroyed when Moses came down from mount Sinai .

The second time to represent the new covenant of faith the invisible things of God. God moved Moses to hewn out two new tablets then again with the finger of God Christ write on both sides with no room for oral tradition of dying mankind.

You could say to the law and the testimony of prophets, both testaments. If they speak not according to that one word then they have no light of the gospel.

They that oppose the gospel separate the law (Old Testament) from its witness the prophets (New Testament.

A twofold law below.. (1) Law and (2) testimony. The let there be and it was good law or work of Christ's mighty faith

Isaih 8:16; (1) Bind up the testimony, (2) seal the law among my disciples.

The testimony seals the law .

No law no testimony. No testimony no law

The two laws reckoned as one faithful and it was good law.

The creative "Let there be" and the good testimony "sola scriptura ".

Dying mankind must seek the dead for those still living with what they must called patron saints disembodied his and hers gods in the likeness of dying mankind

Isaiah 8:19-20;And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimonysola scriptura) if they speak not according to this word(singular) , it is because there is no light in them

The word seek above the Hebrew Darash meaning necromancy. It is used in two ways one to seek the dead for those still alive or those born again seeking our Living God Christ.

The living Holy Spirit for the dead bringing new born again life to those once dead in trespass and sin without God in this present world.

 

[KingJ]

"What the Catholics Get Right

Salvation Plan: One covenant, fulfilled in Christ — not two tracks for Jew and Gentile

Rapture: Rejected; Christ returns once, publicly, at the end of the age — not in secret phases. This was the belief of the early Church Fathers.

Israel: Fulfilled in the Church. There is no separate, ongoing plan for ethnic Israel apart from the Gospel.
If someone calls themselves a Jew but rejects Jesus as the Messiah, they are outside the covenant of salvation — just like anyone else who refuses Him. Catholic teaching, like Scripture, is clear: no one is saved apart from Christ.

Covenant History: Progressive revelation fulfilled in Jesus — not cut into dispensations

Prophecy: Interpreted through typology, Christological fulfillment, and the Church Age


Where the Catholic Church Goes Off the Rails

Vatican Power Structure: Corrupted hierarchy; functions more like a political empire than a spiritual body

Idolatry and Ritualism: Veneration of saints and Mary can cross into worship territory

Works-Based Legalism: Overemphasis on sacraments and tradition as necessary for salvation

Mystery Religion Symbols: Pagan architecture, serpent imagery, and globalist interfaith compromises

Scripture Access: Historically limited lay access to the Bible; elevated papal authority above scripture


What Dispensationalist Evangelicals Get Right

Authority of Scripture: The Bible is the final and highest authority, not popes or church councils

Born Again Doctrine: Emphasis on personal salvation through faith in Jesus Christ

Evangelism: Urgent focus on spreading the Gospel to all nations

Rejection of Ritualism: Values relationship with Christ over empty tradition

Role of the Holy Spirit: Acknowledges the active presence and power of the Holy Spirit in believers


What Dispensationalist Evangelicals Get Horribly Wrong (Thanks to Scofield Heresy)

Two Plans of Salvation: Claims Jews have a separate covenant path — undermines the sufficiency of Christ

Pre-Trib Rapture: Teaches an unbiblical two-phase return of Jesus based on cherry-picked verses

Political Zionism as “God’s Will”: Confuses modern secular Israel with the true, biblical people of God — even though the nation as a whole rejects Jesus Christ. It doesn’t even dawn on most brainwashed Dispensationalists that over 98% of modern “Israelis” are Ashkenazi — descendants of Eastern Europeans and Russians who have no historical or genetic connection to Abraham whatsoever. They're about as related to Abraham as Hulk Hogan, SpongeBob and Genghis Khan.

Church as Parenthesis: Treats the Church Age as an interruption instead of the fulfillment of prophecy

Artificial Bible Division: Uses Scofield’s man-made footnotes to override clear New Testament teaching


The Bottom Line:

The Catholic Church preserved covenant theology and rejected the blasphemous, Scofield circus — but compromised it with institutional corruption, idolatry, and works-based tradition.

The Evangelical world rediscovered Scripture and the born-again life — but got seduced by Scofield’s dual-covenant, Zionist distortion that fractures the Gospel.

Both systems need to be reformed by the authority of Christ and the clarity of His Word.

To the lost Dispensationalists, I'll leave you with this...

The true Israel is the Body of Christ — one people, one covenant, one King. If you're a so-called "Christian" and you don't know that; you're beyond misled.

You’re not just lost — you’re way out in the wilderness of Nod, stumbling through darkness and delusion.
There’s a veil over your eyes and a bewitching on your soul —
and honestly, it might be the most biblical level of deception the modern Church has ever witnessed.
Jesus and the Apostles are looking down from heaven — eyebrows raised, faces in their hands — stunned at how far off the path you’ve wandered.

“But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Covenant, because the veil is taken away in Christ.” — 2 Corinthians 3:14

You’re clinging to the shadows of a covenant that was fulfilled 2,000 years ago —
propping up a U.N.-sanctioned, Rothschild-created political state,
as if salvation lives in dirt and barbed wire,
totally ignorant of the fact that the true Israel is the Body of Christ.
Paul saw it coming. He warned us.
The veil still lies over your heart because you refuse to turn fully to Christ.
You’re not reading prophecy — you’re reading it wrong.
And until you stop exalting the letter over the Lord,
you’ll stay exactly where you are:
veiled, bewitched, and wandering east of Eden."

You are entitled to your opinion. You still need to grasp that you are on a discussion forum and not a message board.

If you make a statement like 'Some cherry pick scripture to support a rapture', you need to better explain why you say that.

Catholics at large reject the rapture because they believe the tribulation period is a final and necessary test. That would mean protestants who do not believe in a rapture event are more prone to believe in a works based salvation, which is most certainly evidence of 'cherry picking'.

Not believing in a rapture event incriminates God as evil, unjust and makes Him out to be a liar.

Evil = God abandons His people in the most terrifying period on earth in all of human history Matt 24:21.

Unjust = Scripture is clear that His wrath will fall on earth, thereby..... torturing and killing many indiscriminately, even the righteous.

Liar = You can confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord Rom 10:9 all day and night, for many, it will not get them into heaven according to Rev 14:11.

The tribulation period is a different dispensation. A period specially reserved by God for Jews. Their 'seventieth week' Dan 9:27. Important to understand that.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

You are entitled to your opinion. You still need to grasp that you are on a discussion forum and not a message board.

If you make a statement like 'Some cherry pick scripture to support a rapture', you need to better explain why you say that.

Catholics at large reject the rapture because they believe the tribulation period is a final and necessary test. That would mean protestants who do not believe in a rapture event are more prone to believe in a works based salvation, which is most certainly evidence of 'cherry picking'.

Not believing in a rapture event incriminates God as evil, unjust and makes Him out to be a liar.

Evil = God abandons His people in the most terrifying period on earth in all of human history Matt 24:21.

Unjust = Scripture is clear that His wrath will fall on earth, thereby..... torturing and killing many indiscriminately, even the righteous.

Liar = You can confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord Rom 10:9 all day and night, for many, it will not get them into heaven according to Rev 14:11.

The tribulation period is a different dispensation. A period specially reserved by God for Jews. Their 'seventieth week' Dan 9:27. Important to understand that.

You just called God a liar if He doesn't rapture people before tribulation. That’s not theology — that’s emotional manipulation dressed in Scofield pajamas.

“Evil, unjust, liar”? No — that's not God. That’s your fragile doctrine falling apart when it meets the plain words of Jesus:

“Immediately after the tribulation... He will gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31

Not before. Not secretly. After.

There is one return, one gathering, and one Gospel — not a divided circus where Jews get a second chance and the Church gets a helicopter ride out of judgment.

Your “different dispensation” theology isn’t from Christ — it’s straight from Scofield’s notebook and a complete distortion of covenant truth.

 

[B-A-C]

I agree with the OP on the rapture, but not with replacement theology.

There are several Bible passages that many Christians who reject Replacement Theology (also known as Supersessionism) point to in support of the belief that God’s covenant with Israel remains intact and that the Jewish people still have a unique role in God’s redemptive plan.

Here are some key verses often cited:

---

1. Romans 11:1–2 (ESV)​

“I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew.”

This is one of the clearest statements against the idea that the Church has replaced Israel.

---

2. Romans 11:28–29​

“As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.”

Paul emphasizes that God’s promises to Israel are irrevocable, even if many Jews at the time did not accept the gospel.

---

3. Jeremiah 31:35–37​

“Thus says the Lord, who gives the sun for light by day... If this fixed order departs from before me, declares the Lord, then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever.”

This Old Testament prophecy affirms the permanence of Israel as a nation before God.

---

4. Zechariah 12:10​

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him...”

This is often interpreted as a future repentance and restoration of Israel, not a replacement.

---

5. Luke 21:24​

“Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”

The phrase “until” implies a future restoration of Israel’s central role in God’s plan.

Now, I don't believe the Jews get saved any differently than Gentiles. There is a new covenant, but it doesn't depend on your nationality.
It's about timing. Before Jesus died, and after Jesus was resurrected.

 

[B-A-C]

Not believing in a rapture event incriminates God as evil, unjust and makes Him out to be a liar.

Evil = God abandons His people in the most terrifying period on earth in all of human history Matt 24:21.

Unjust = Scripture is clear that His wrath will fall on earth, thereby..... torturing and killing many indiscriminately, even the righteous.

Did God abandon Noah in the flood? Daniel in the Lion's Den? The Jews passing through the Red Sea?
Just because God lets you go through something, doesn't mean He is abandoning you.

God doesn't kill and torture indiscriminately. There is a war, and Christians will be killed during this time. But not by God's forces.
But God will protect the Christians on the Earth during this time from "His" wrath.

Rev 9:3 Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4 They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man

Christians will be protected from God's plagues. But they won't be protected from the beast.

Rev 11:7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.
Rev 13:7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Evil = going against what the Bible says, even if it doesn't align with out opinions.

 

[B-A-C]

Your “different dispensation” theology isn’t from Christ — it’s straight from Scofield’s notebook and a complete distortion of covenant truth.

No doubt Scofield contributed, but dispensationalism existed long before He did. I have books over 300 years old that mention it.
I don't agree with all of it. But the point is... Scofield didn't start it by a long shot.

 

[Dave M]

This is one of the clearest statements against the idea that the Church has replaced Israel.

comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges I do not understand. The church is who the body of Christ is, it is Gods eternal people. Israel is the ethnic blood line of Jesus, and the gospel came to them first,,, but unless you believe in Jesus, it matters not what blood line you are. SO how can one replace the other if they are completely different.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

I agree with the OP on the rapture, but not with replacement theology.

There are several Bible passages that many Christians who reject Replacement Theology (also known as Supersessionism) point to in support of the belief that God’s covenant with Israel remains intact and that the Jewish people still have a unique role in God’s redemptive plan.

Here are some key verses often cited:

---

1. Romans 11:1–2 (ESV)​

This is one of the clearest statements against the idea that the Church has replaced Israel.

---

2. Romans 11:28–29​

Paul emphasizes that God’s promises to Israel are irrevocable, even if many Jews at the time did not accept the gospel.

---

3. Jeremiah 31:35–37​

This Old Testament prophecy affirms the permanence of Israel as a nation before God.

---

4. Zechariah 12:10​

This is often interpreted as a future repentance and restoration of Israel, not a replacement.

---

5. Luke 21:24​

The phrase “until” implies a future restoration of Israel’s central role in God’s plan.

Now, I don't believe the Jews get saved any differently than Gentiles. There is a new covenant, but it doesn't depend on your nationality.
It's about timing. Before Jesus died, and after Jesus was resurrected.

I appreciate your attempt to hold Israel in high regard, but your interpretation still reflects the core of Dispensational thinking — which Scripture itself dismantles. You say you don’t believe Jews are saved differently than Gentiles, yet you keep arguing that they maintain a separate, ongoing role in redemptive history. That is two-covenant logic in disguise.

Romans 11 does not affirm a separate plan for ethnic Israel. It affirms that God has not rejected His people in Christ. Paul makes it clear: “Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel” (Romans 9:6). The olive tree in Romans 11 is not two trees, or two salvations — it’s one covenant, one tree, and the only branches that remain are those who abide through faith in Christ.

Jeremiah 31, the very chapter you quote to defend national Israel’s permanence, is the same chapter that introduces the New Covenant — a covenant declared fulfilled and superior in Hebrews 8, which explicitly says the old covenant is now “obsolete.” The promises are not nullified — they’re fulfilled in Christ, and inherited by those who are “in Him,” whether Jew or Gentile.

Zechariah 12:10 is not some future mass repentance event for a political nation. Peter quotes these very prophecies at Pentecost to show they were beginning to unfold then and there. “Men of Israel... you crucified and killed... and they were cut to the heart.” That’s the beginning of the mourning and repentance the prophets spoke of — fulfilled in the Church, not in a modern state.

And as for Luke 21:24 — “until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled” does not mean Israel will suddenly reclaim national redemptive priority. It simply means the Gospel will go to all nations, and then the end will come — just as Jesus taught. There’s no verse that teaches a return to Levitical shadows, temple sacrifices, or political Israel as God’s centerpiece.

There is no “replacement theology” here — because nothing is being replaced. It’s fulfilled in Christ. The Church isn’t a replacement. The Church is Israel — the true people of God, defined not by bloodline but by the blood of Christ.

 

[KingJ]

Did God abandon Noah in the flood? Daniel in the Lion's Den? The Jews passing through the Red Sea?

Apples and oranges.

A comparable example would be God throwing Noah into the water to drown. Jews into the Red Sea when He closed it. Daniel in with his accusers who were torn apart before they hit the ground.

Just because God lets you go through something, doesn't mean He is abandoning you.

That is a true statement but one that does not apply to Christians entering the tribulation.

As explained in my OP here - Rapture event - Poll

 

[KingJ]

Rev 9:3 Then out of the smoke came locusts upon the earth, and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4 They were told not to hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man

Christians will be protected from God's plagues. But they won't be protected from the beast.

Rev 11:7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.
Rev 13:7 It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

God will assist tribulation saints, no argument there.

But you need to understand that tribulation saints are not going to be 'Christians'.

Rev 14:9-11 and Rev 2:10 do not cater for Rom 10:9. Rom 10:9 = Christianity = Revelation of Jesus 1 Cor 12:3 = Holy Spirit required for that.

Rev 14:9-11 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

Rev 2:10 Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Declaring with your mouth and believing in your heart that Jesus is Lord is completely and utterly irrelevant if you have the mark of the beast.

Evil = going against what the Bible says, even if it doesn't align with out opinions.

It is correct that going against the bible is evil. But that is only because God is righteous in all His ways Psalm 145:17.

What you are implying though is terrible and false teaching. God is righteous because ''He is God''.

According to Gen 3:22 we all know what is good and evil. It is not an 'opinion'.

He is not righteous because 'He is God'. He is righteous because He is righteous.

There is absolutely nothing righteous about the three facts I mention in post # 8.

 

[KingJ]

You just called God a liar if He doesn't rapture people before tribulation.

You have twisted my line please reread.

That’s not theology — that’s emotional manipulation dressed in Scofield pajamas.

Twisting someone's words is misrepresentation. I am going to assume you just glanced at a few words and did not read the full sentence.

“Immediately after the tribulation... He will gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31

Not before. Not secretly. After.

You are cherry picking a verse speaking to the second coming and using it as the rapture event.

There is one return, one gathering, and one Gospel —

Your assumption off of cherry picked verses.

not a divided circus where Jews get a second chance and the Church gets a helicopter ride out of judgment.

Do you believe Christians need to further prove themselves to God?

Your “different dispensation” theology isn’t from Christ — it’s straight from Scofield’s notebook and a complete distortion of covenant truth.

It is from a logical working brain actually. The bible is not divided into dispensations by accident. Try start with the fact that the bible you read has a very noticeable old and new testament.

 

[Garee]

You are entitled to your opinion. You still need to grasp that you are on a discussion forum and not a message board.

If you make a statement like 'Some cherry pick scripture to support a rapture', you need to better explain why you say that.

Catholics at large reject the rapture because they believe the tribulation period is a final and necessary test. That would mean protestants who do not believe in a rapture event are more prone to believe in a works based salvation, which is most certainly evidence of 'cherry picking'.

Not believing in a rapture event incriminates God as evil, unjust and makes Him out to be a liar.

Evil = God abandons His people in the most terrifying period on earth in all of human history Matt 24:21.

Unjust = Scripture is clear that His wrath will fall on earth, thereby..... torturing and killing many indiscriminately, even the righteous.

Liar = You can confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord Rom 10:9 all day and night, for many, it will not get them into heaven according to Rev 14:11.

The tribulation period is a different dispensation. A period specially reserved by God for Jews. Their 'seventieth week' Dan 9:27. Important to understand that.

Catholicism I would suggest they teach the resurrection on the last day under the Sun that some call rapture has occurred. Not understanding the spiritual unseen things of God, they must look to the Pagan foundation of the worldly religions ."Out of sight out of mind"

Christ our God calls them fools (no invisible ruling God in their thoughts) The universal religion "reincarnation" gender confusion or change in creature design .

Suffering Limbo for the younger sinners and Purgatory for the more mature, the doctrine of wondering, wondering, over and over.

Save the Queen mother named after our blessed sister in the Lord Mary teaching she .. alone received the fullness of grace whole cost of salvation the rest of the planet a unknown, unknowable amount continues to suffer and wonder.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth (sola scriptura) have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

The Faith of Christ's labor of love. His repenting comforting love calling back some whose faith was overthrown

There can be differences as oral traditions amongst believers called heresies as long as they do not do despite the fullness of Christ the husband's grace

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

To the lurkers who don’t really know what’s going on here — let me explain it like this:

Remember those “Choose Your Own Adventure” books from when you were a kid?
“You finally reach the dragon’s cave. To enter, turn to page 34. To run away, turn to page 56.”

That’s basically how the Scofield Bible hijacked 80% of American Christianity starting in the 1920s.
It was the ultimate Trojan Horse — a “free Bible” full of study notes designed not to explain Scripture, but to redirect it.

It trained generations of people — especially good-hearted, rural, churchgoing Americans — to ignore plain verses and instead “turn to some other page” where Scofield’s Zionist footnotes could rewrite the story.

Here’s how it works:

You read in Galatians 3:28:
“There is neither Jew nor Greek... you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

But Scofield’s footnote says no no no...:
“Flip back to Genesis — the Jews are still special because of Abraham!”

Completely ignoring the fact that Jesus already fulfilled the promise to Abraham, nailed the Old Covenant to the cross, and established a new and better covenant — with no ethnic favoritism, no second-class citizens, and no backup plan for unbelieving Israel.

“If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.” — Galatians 3:29

That’s the true fulfillment.
No one’s “special.”
Not your DNA.
Not your Rothschild/U.N. land deed.
Not your dreams of a third temple.

Just Christ —
and those in Him.
No dual covenant.
No second plan.
No exceptions.
Only the Gospel.

You read in Revelation that the 144,000 are sealed “from all the tribes of the children of Israel.”

But Scofield whispers:
“Don’t worry, that’s not the Church. That’s ethnic Jews in the future! Forget that Paul said ‘not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel’ (Romans 9:6) — let’s insert a gap!”

You read in Ephesians 2 that Christ “broke down the dividing wall” between Jew and Gentile and created “one new man.”

But Scofield says:
“Flip to a chart at the back — God still has two plans, two peoples, and two kingdoms. Just ignore Jesus saying, ‘there shall be one flock, one shepherd.’”

That’s the scam.
That’s why the modern Church doesn’t realize it is Israel — not by flesh, but by faith. (which is the only way in, according to the Gospel).
There’s no ethnic fast-pass.
No bloodline exception.
Only those in Christ are Abraham’s offspring — heirs according to the promise.
(Galatians 3:29)

It doesn’t matter if you’re an “ethnic Jew,” a Gentile, or a Russian, Poll or Eastern European in Tel Aviv pretending to be related to Abraham. If you’re not in the Church — you’re not in Christ. Period.
And if you reject the King of the Jews, you’re out — regardless of lineage or bloodline.

The covenant wasn’t postponed.
It wasn’t rerouted.
It was fulfilled — in Christ.

There’s no such thing as “replacement theology.”
That’s just a slur word people slap on New Testament truth when they’ve never actually read the Bible without Scofield’s footnotes telling them how to think.

It’s not “replacement” — it’s fulfillment.
Jesus didn’t replace Israel. He fulfilled Israel — and then invited everyone in.

But Scofield rewrote the whole story.
He told the Church to expect a second covenant, a second people, a second plan.
A detour. A delay. A different ending.

And sadly…
most of the Church in the 1920s, ‘30s, and ‘40s bought into it — hook, line, and Scofield.
And it’s still plaguing the Church today, misleading millions away from the truth of the Gospel
and the identity of the true Israel — the Body of Christ.

The Scofield Bible deception was unleashed on the Church in 1909, disguised as a gift — millions of “free Bibles” pumped full of Darby/Scofield Zionist footnotes, laced with heresy, and printed in Oxford with Rockefeller backing.

Why?
Because they knew something critical:
Traditional Christians would never support a Rothschild-backed, UN-orchestrated hijacking of Palestine. (Their future plan for the 1940s)
The early Church Fathers knew the truth.
Even Christians during the Civil War era understood:
The Church is Israel.
Not a nation.
Not a flag.
Not a bloodline.
“My kingdom is not of this world.” — Jesus

So what did they do?
They rewrote the narrative.
They mass-produced Trojan Horse “study Bibles” and carpet-bombed the American heartland with them.
They aimed straight at the John Boy Waltons of America — humble, God-fearing people — and systematically reprogrammed them to believe that “Israel” meant a political state, not the Body of Christ.

That is blasphemy of the highest order.
A full-scale theological coup.
As wicked as anything Satan has ever sold to the Church.

They didn't just twist Scripture.
They buried the Gospel under a flag, and called it prophecy.

And looking around today — it worked flawlessly.

We went from a time when 100% of the Church knew the truth...
To a world where maybe 20% of Christians even know what Israel is anymore.
They traded the Gospel for a map.
They replaced the Cross with a flag.
They abandoned the King of the Jews — and replaced Him with a Scofield study note.

Christians from 1770 wouldn’t even recognize what passes for Christianity today.
They’d be horrified that anyone calling themselves a follower of Christ could believe that “Israel” means dirt and land— instead of the Body of Christ.

They wouldn’t argue.
They wouldn’t debate charts.
They’d just stare at Fox News, see pastors cheering on war in the name of prophecy…
and probably break down in tears, realizing how deeply the Church has been misled.

From the Cross to the Constitution to Scofield's study notes — That’s the downgrade.
We traded the Kingdom for a country, and the Messiah for a man-made U.N. map.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

You have twisted my line please reread.



Twisting someone's words is misrepresentation. I am going to assume you just glanced at a few words and did not read the full sentence.



You are cherry picking a verse speaking to the second coming and using it as the rapture event.



Your assumption off of cherry picked verses.



Do you believe Christians need to further prove themselves to God?



It is from a logical working brain actually. The bible is not divided into dispensations by accident. Try start with the fact that the bible you read has a very noticeable old and new testament.

You completely misrepresented what I said. I never called God a liar — I quoted Jesus Christ Himself:
“Immediately after the tribulation... He will gather His elect.” — Matthew 24:29–31

Not before. Not secretly. After. That’s not up for debate — that’s straight from the red letters.

Twisting someone’s words because the plain text doesn’t support your theory isn’t theology —
it’s emotional manipulation in Scofield pajamas.

You accuse me of “cherry-picking,” but you’re the one skipping over the timeline Jesus laid out plainly.
There is one return, one gathering, and one Gospel — not some divided, theatrical circus where ethnic Jews get a second chance and the Church gets a secret escape hatch.

You say your doctrine comes from “a logical working brain.”
I say it comes from Scofield’s Zionist-funded notebook, not the Bible.

Yes, the Bible is divided into Old and New — that’s called covenant, not dispensations.
The New Covenant didn’t run alongside the old — it fulfilled it.

“He has made the two one... creating in Himself one new man.” — Ephesians 2:15

Your theology splits what Jesus came to unite.