DIGRESSION ON "ETERNAL" THE GREEK WORD AIONIOS

[Johann]

DIGRESSION ON "ETERNAL"
THE GREEK WORD AIONIOS

ADDENDUM: Since this article has generated negative critical feedback from universalists, those who hold to the unbiblical belief that every soul ever born will be saved and saved forever, I have been prompted to add a short note at the beginning because a universalist will not likely read the entire article. Much could be said, but the essence of the truth stands or falls on one word.

What does the word eternal (aionios) mean as it is used in Scripture, NOT as it is used by secular writers, including ancient Greek writers? Thankfully, God's Spirit has used the word aionios numerous times so one may glean an excellent sense of what this word means in the Bible. Can you find Greek "authorities" who say aionios does not mean eternal? Absolutely, but every man that claims to be an "authority" on this word is also a sinner and his words are not inspired by God, and thus are fallible and subject to error (they are not inerrant)! Only God's Word is inspired by the Spirit of God (Who is the Spirit of Truth). Only God's Word is infallible. Only God's Word is inerrant. Therefore whatever God says on ANY subject is absolute truth, and takes absolute precedence over how the same word was used in the writings of fallen men. That said, here is what the GOD OF TRUTH SAYS about the crucial word ETERNAL (aionios) (And these are only a few examples to make the point).

Matthew 25:41 (WORDS OF JESUS) “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal (aionios) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

COMMENT - Jesus clearly states those on His left are to depart into the "ETERNAL FIRE." So Jesus believes in an ETERNAL FIRE. Is that a fair statement based on His own declaration? Secondly, Jesus states this ETERNAL FIRE is a place which has been prepared for the DEVIL. So that begs a question -- If ETERNAL FIRE is not real, then will the devil be let out of that place at some point in the future? Clearly there is no Scripture that supports that premise. In fact John records the devil's fate in Revelation 20:10+ "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." How long will the devil be tormented according to John? These passages strongly support the premise that eternal fire will last forever, throughout eternity.

Matthew 25:46 (WORDS OF JESUS) “These will go away into eternal (aionios) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionios) life.”

COMMENT - What is Jesus contrasting? Eternal punishment and eternal life. Correct? According to Jesus how long is life? Eternal. According to Jesus how long is punishment? Eternal. One can parse Jesus' words or attempt specious, clever word games, but His words are very simple and straightforward and clearly indicate that there are two states of every man ever born, either eternal punishment or eternal life. There is no middle ground. And if one argues that aionios does not mean "eternal" than they are painting themselves into a theological corner, because if eternal punishment is not forever, then eternal life is not forever and we are all in a hopeless situation!

Paul uses aionos to describe the nature of God writing

but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal (aionios) God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith. (Ro 16:26)

COMMENT - If aionios does not mean eternal, then one is forced to say from this passage that God will not exist forever, which of course is absolutely absurd. Aionios in this context clearly means eternal, everlasting, forever and ever. Amen!

Paul again uses aionos in a description of one aspect of God writing

Who (GOD) Alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, Whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal (aionios) dominion! Amen. (1 Ti 6:16)

COMMENT - Paul is blessing God and ascribing to Him eternal dominion. Dominion is kratos which refers to inherent strength which displays itself in the rule over others. It follows that if God's kratos is not eternal, at some point He will not have the strength to rule. Again this is clearly not true or otherwise we are all left without any hope of eternal life. Again, it is clear that aionios in this context means eternal, everlasting, forever, without end!

The writer of Hebrews uses aionos in a description of God the Spirit writing

how much more will the blood of Christ, Who through the eternal (aionios)Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? (Hebrews 9:14)

COMMENT - Once again, if one proposes that aionios does not mean eternal, then they are forced to conclude that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of Jesus, the Spirit of Jesus Christ, will not exist forever. Again such logic is not logic, but lies. Eternal means forever and ever. Amen.

If we let the Bible be our plumbline regarding the meaning of the Greek word aionios, then clearly the Biblical uses of this word indicates the meaning is forever, without end, eternal. And while it is not my favorite theological truth, it is clear from the Word of God that there will be eternal punishment for every soul that does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ while they still have breath in their lungs and a beat in their heart. Do not believe the lie of Satan, "You surely will not die." (Ge 3:4+)! Today is the acceptable time. Today is the day of salvation. (2 Cor 6:2) Believe the truth spoken by Jesus, Who Alone is the Way, the Truth and the Life (John 14:6) and Who Alone has the words of eternal (aionios) life (John 6:68)

Here are a few of the blessed, hope filled words of Jesus regarding ETERNAL LIFE -

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal (aionios) life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. (John 5:24)

“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal (aionios) life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” (John 6:40)

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal (aionios) life. (John 6:47)

“This is eternal (aionios) life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ Whom You have sent. (John 17:3)

Finally, here is one example of the use of aionios in the Septuagint (Lxx), the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament and a version frequently quoted by the New Testament writers. The passage in question is Genesis 21:33 in which Abraham gives us another glorious Name for God.

Abraham planted a tamarisk tree at Beersheba, and there he called on the name of the LORD, the Everlasting God (see study of El Olam: Everlasting God).

COMMENT - The Hebrew word for Everlasting is olam which is translated by aionios. Once again those who would seek to distort or pervert the Biblical meaning of aionios as meaning something other than eternal have a major problem! They have to directly refute the inspired Word from God Himself. He is saying that He is the Eternal God. There is simply no other way to interpret what He says about Himself. It follows that if "eternal" (aionios) does not mean eternal, then either God is confused or He is a liar, and of course He is neither (1 Cor 14:33, Nu 23:19, Titus 1:2+). He is the absolute Essence of Truth. Beloved, it could not be more clearly stated that God is eternal and hallelujah, those who are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ will experience eternal life with Him in His glorious presence. But tragically and sadly, those who refuse to believe in Jesus will experience eternal death and "will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power." (2 Th 1:9) Dear reader, if you have not yet placed your faith in the Messiah, the Lamb of God Who (Alone) takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29+), then do not put off this "decision of a lifetime," one that will immediately result in your being rescued from the domain of darkness and transferred (Col 1:13+) from the prospect of eternal death to the hope and certainty of eternal life in Christ. May the Spirit of God draw you and grant you the grace to believe in Jesus Christ, "the Everlasting (Hebrew = olam; Lxx = aionios) God, the LORD, the Creator (Heb 1:2+, Jn 1:3+, Col 1:16+) of the ends of the earth." (Isaiah 40:28) Amen

A Study of Eternal Punishment | Precept Austin

www.preceptaustin.org

Shalom
Johann

 

[KingJ]

Excellent Johann, thanks for posting.

 

[KingJ]

@Butch5

Hi Butch, what are your thoughts on this post?

 

[Butch5]

@Butch5

Hi Butch, what are your thoughts on this post?

Hi KingJ, I haven't had time to look at it yet. I'm extremely busy at work. When I get a minute I'll look at it and give you my thoughts. Thanks for asking!

 

[Butch5]

@KingJ,

I looked over the post. It has the same problems as the others. It doesn't set out to prove aionios means eternal, it simply assumes it. This is Begging the question of Circular Reasoning. Here's the first line.

"What does the word eternal (aionios) mean as it is used in Scripture, NOT as it is used by secular writers, including ancient Greek writers? Thankfully, God's Spirit has used the word aionios numerous times so one may glean an excellent sense of what this word means in the Bible"

He says what does the word eternal (aionios) mean. Right there he has assumed aionios means eternal. He's made no effort to prove it, rahter has just assumed it. What's really funny is that He goes on to renounce the word's use in a secular sense. There isn't a specific Bible language. It's language is the language of the day. The secular usage and the Biblical usage would be the same. I suspect the reason he's done this is to try and head off evidence that opposes his premise. Another issue is his subliminal usage. By saying what does eternal (aionios) mean, He's subtly put it into the readers mind that aionios means eternal. He makes no attempt at an object investigation of the word. Another point that is misleading is when he denounces men. He says,

"Bible. Can you find Greek "authorities" who say aionios does not mean eternal? Absolutely, but every man that claims to be an "authority" on this word is also a sinner and his words are not inspired by God, and thus are fallible and subject to error (they are not inerrant)! Only God's Word is inspired by the Spirit of God (Who is the Spirit of Truth). Only God's Word is infallible. Only God's Word is inerrant. Therefore whatever God says on ANY subject is absolute truth, and takes absolute precedence over how the same word was used in the writings of fallen men. That said, here is what the GOD OF TRUTH SAYS about the crucial word ETERNAL (aionios) (And these are only a few examples to make the point)."

He admits we can find Greek authorities who say aionios doens't mean eternal. Then he denounces them as sinners, fallible, and subject to error. Now, all of that is true. But then he says,

"That said, here is what the GOD OF TRUTH SAYS about the crucial word ETERNAL (aionios)".

He gives his argument a false sense of authority by saying this is what the God of Truth says, and then presenting a translation. Those English translators are just as much, sinners, fallible, and subject to error as the men he denounced. He uses subtle word games, I don't know if it's intentional, to sway the mind into thinking, oh, yes, this is what God says. God didn't give His word in English. That's the product of translators. Those translators have no more "authority" than those he denounced who disagree with him. By denouncing those translators that disagree with him and accepting those that agree with him, he commits the logical fallacy known as Cherry Picking. Here is the definition of Cherry Picking

Cherry Picking Fallacy Definition Cherry-picking fallacy is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone selects certain data to create a misleading argument. It is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position.

The author admits that there are authorities who disagree with him. He then denounces them as sinners. While the ones he accepts are also sinners.

The examples he uses are actually the fallacy known as the Non Sequitur, or it doesn't follow. For example, he says if the aionios punishment isn't eternal, then neither is the aionios life. That's only true if aionios means eternal. If it doesn't mean eternal, then that logic is not valid. Let's look at another example using that same logic.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Lk 1:31–33.

Another person argued this same line of reasoning using this passage. It was claimed that Jesus reign was forever, aion and that there would be "no end" to His Kingdom. The argument was that since the reign is forever (aion) and the kingdom has no end, aion "must" meant forever or eternity. The problem with that argument is that Jesus doesn't reign forever. Paul said He will reign until all enemies are put under His feet.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be tdestroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), 1 Co 15:24–28.

Paul says that Christ will reign until all things are put under Him, then He will be subject to the Father. So, in the first passage we have aion set in contrast to "no end" and yet we see that aion cannot mean eternal in that passage because Paul states plainly that Christ reigns "until". So, what we have here is aion contrasted with "no end" in a situation where it clearly is a limited time.

So, what we have here is a passage showing clearly that aion is not eternal. We have Jesus and the apostles speaking of the end of the aion and Jesus speaks of an aion to come. So, if we're going to be intellectually honest with God's word, we've got to find some way of reconciling these issues. Here is a definition of age.

"the length of time that a person has lived or a thing has existed:"

It's basically a length of time. We're all familiar with the Stone Age, the Iron Age, the Bronze Age and so on. These are all different lengths of time, yet they are all an age. So, we see that an age is a length of time, that the length is determined by the context and not the definition of the word. My age and your age are likely different, but they are both an age. aion is properly translated age. The best way to translate aionios life is to translate it as age enduring life or life for the age. Now, since aion means age and an age is a length of time determined by the context, is it possible that God could create an age that doesn't end? If God did that then we would have an unending or eternal age. However, the definition of age would not change to mean eternal. It would still mean a length of time determined by the context. To confirm this, we need Scripture that defines aionios life without using the word aioinios. We have such a passage from Jesus.

The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Lk 20:34–36.

This passage is critical to our understanding of aion. I bolded and underlined the word "world" in this passage because it is the word "aion" We could translate this as, "the children of this age" and "accounted worthy to obtain that age". Jesus is clearly contrasting two different ages. If we say He's contrasting two different eternities, it doesn't make sense. He's speaking of this age and an age to come in the future. But notice what He says of that age to come. The ones who are worthy to obtain that aion and the Resurrection, are connected here. He connects that age with the Resurrection and then He says they die no more. There is your eternal life. They die no more. That is by definition eternal life. Jesus connects this eternal life with the age to come. This could imply that the age to come will not end. Thus we would have an unending or eternal age. In that unending age we would have age enduring life or aionios life. If the life is age enduring or life for the age and the age doesn't end you have eternal life. But, at the same time the word aion doesn't mean eternal so it fits with all of the other passages of Scripture where it clearly doesn't mean eternal. Let's look at a previous passage again. Some were going to aionios punishment and some to aionious life. What is the punishment for sin? Paul said the wages of sin is death. So, the wicked will suffer age enduring death. If that age is unending so is the death of the wicked. Just as the life is age enduring in an unending age, so too, is the death age enduring in an unending age.

This is how we can reconcile "all" of the passages that use aion. We can harmonize all of them. We don't have problem passages that we have to try to explain away or sweep under the rug. Understood this way aion makes perfect sense in all of the passages in which it appears.

 

[Johann]

. So, the wicked will suffer age enduring death.

And right here is the problem.

"Age enduring death of the wicked, does it mean soul sleep, unconscious state, cessation/annihilation of the soul?"

See how you do not elaborate upon this?

As you have said, "The believer upon death goes to the grave"...and not to be with the Lord.

If this be true, which is not, then there is no hope.

But I'll let you dialog with King and the other members.





The spirits of departed believers are with the Lord. The Bible says.

Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

The writer to the Hebrews says.

and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect (Hebrews 12:23).



Christ's Presence

At death, the spirit of the believer enters into Christ's presence. Jesus promised the dying robber on the cross that he would be with Him immediately after death.

And Jesus said to him, 'Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise' (Luke 23:43).


Immediately Present

The Apostle Paul also taught that believers would be in Christ's presence upon their death.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed, we shall not be found naked. . . We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:1,2,8).


Paul wrote to the church at Philippi.

For I am hard pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better (Philippians 1:23).

Paul says that his death would be far better for him than remaining alive because he would be in the presence of Christ.

Be With Jesus

Jesus talked about believers being with Him in the next world.

Father, I desire that those also, whom You have given Me, may be with Me where I am, to see My glory, which You have given Me because you loved Me before the foundation of the world (John 17:24).


Stephen

Upon his death, the martyr Stephen called upon Jesus to receive his spirit.

And he [Stephen], being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, 'Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!'. . . And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit' (Acts 7:55,56, 59).


The usual picture of Jesus is sitting on the right hand of God the Father. But when Stephen was about to die, Jesus stood to welcome him into God's presence. This is another indication that the believing dead go immediately to be with Christ.



Conscious

Believers are in a state of awareness after death. Jesus told the religious leaders in His day that God was the God of the living. He reminded them what God had said to Moses.


I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (Matthew 22:32).


With God

When the beggar Lazarus died, the Scripture says.

So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. And the rich man died and he was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side (Luke 16:22,23).

The rich man in Hades saw both Lazarus and Abraham. Each were in a better place.

Live Together

Paul told the church at Thessalonica that believers will always be with the Lord.

Who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him (1 Thessalonians 5:10).

Rest And Blessedness

Believers who die are in a restful state. The Bible says.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the Word of the Lord and for the testimony they held. And they cried with a loud voice saying, 'How long O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?' And a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants, and their comrades, who would be killed as they were, was completed (Revelation 6:9-11).

Those with the Lord are also blessed.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, 'Write: 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.' Yes, says the Spirit, 'that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them' (Revelation 14:13).

Activity



For this reason they are before the throne of God, and worship Him day and night within His temple, and the One who is seated on the throne will shelter them (Revelation 7:15).

Holiness

The believers are in a state of holiness. In the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John asked an angel the identity of certain individuals.

I said to him, "Sir, you are the one that knows." Then he said to me, "These are they who have come out of the Great Tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb (Revelation 7:14).

The clothes which they are wearing, white robes, speak of holiness.



The Bible only reveals a limited amount of information about what goes on in the presence of the Lord. Paul wrote of his experience.

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know - God knows. And I know that this man - whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows - was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that people are not permitted to tell (2 Corinthians 12:2-4).

Paul was not allowed to tell what he had experienced. If we knew exactly how wonderful it was, we probably would not be content to remain for one more hour on the earth. Being with the Lord will truly be an incredible experience!

Summary

After examining what the Bible says about the "intermediate," or "in between" state of the believer, we can conclude the following.

1. Upon death, the soul or spirit of the believer goes immediately to be with God.

2. The Bible also says the believer goes to be with Christ in the presence of the Lord.

3. Believers are alive and conscious in this state.

Johann.

 

[Johann]

And right here is the problem.

"Age enduring death of the wicked, does it mean soul sleep, unconscious state, cessation/annihilation of the soul?"

See how you do not elaborate upon this?

As you have said, "The believer upon death goes to the grave"...and not to be with the Lord.

If this be true, which is not, then there is no hope.

But I'll let you dialog with King and the other members.





The spirits of departed believers are with the Lord. The Bible says.

Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

The writer to the Hebrews says.

and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect (Hebrews 12:23).



Christ's Presence

At death, the spirit of the believer enters into Christ's presence. Jesus promised the dying robber on the cross that he would be with Him immediately after death.

And Jesus said to him, 'Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise' (Luke 23:43).


Immediately Present

The Apostle Paul also taught that believers would be in Christ's presence upon their death.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed, we shall not be found naked. . . We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:1,2,8).


Paul wrote to the church at Philippi.

For I am hard pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better (Philippians 1:23).

Paul says that his death would be far better for him than remaining alive because he would be in the presence of Christ.

Be With Jesus

Jesus talked about believers being with Him in the next world.

Father, I desire that those also, whom You have given Me, may be with Me where I am, to see My glory, which You have given Me because you loved Me before the foundation of the world (John 17:24).


Stephen

Upon his death, the martyr Stephen called upon Jesus to receive his spirit.

And he [Stephen], being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, 'Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!'. . . And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit' (Acts 7:55,56, 59).


The usual picture of Jesus is sitting on the right hand of God the Father. But when Stephen was about to die, Jesus stood to welcome him into God's presence. This is another indication that the believing dead go immediately to be with Christ.



Conscious

Believers are in a state of awareness after death. Jesus told the religious leaders in His day that God was the God of the living. He reminded them what God had said to Moses.


I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (Matthew 22:32).


With God

When the beggar Lazarus died, the Scripture says.

So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. And the rich man died and he was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side (Luke 16:22,23).

The rich man in Hades saw both Lazarus and Abraham. Each were in a better place.

Live Together

Paul told the church at Thessalonica that believers will always be with the Lord.

Who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him (1 Thessalonians 5:10).

Rest And Blessedness

Believers who die are in a restful state. The Bible says.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the Word of the Lord and for the testimony they held. And they cried with a loud voice saying, 'How long O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?' And a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants, and their comrades, who would be killed as they were, was completed (Revelation 6:9-11).

Those with the Lord are also blessed.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, 'Write: 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.' Yes, says the Spirit, 'that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them' (Revelation 14:13).

Activity



For this reason they are before the throne of God, and worship Him day and night within His temple, and the One who is seated on the throne will shelter them (Revelation 7:15).

Holiness

The believers are in a state of holiness. In the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John asked an angel the identity of certain individuals.

I said to him, "Sir, you are the one that knows." Then he said to me, "These are they who have come out of the Great Tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb (Revelation 7:14).

The clothes which they are wearing, white robes, speak of holiness.



The Bible only reveals a limited amount of information about what goes on in the presence of the Lord. Paul wrote of his experience.

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know - God knows. And I know that this man - whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows - was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that people are not permitted to tell (2 Corinthians 12:2-4).

Paul was not allowed to tell what he had experienced. If we knew exactly how wonderful it was, we probably would not be content to remain for one more hour on the earth. Being with the Lord will truly be an incredible experience!

Summary

After examining what the Bible says about the "intermediate," or "in between" state of the believer, we can conclude the following.

1. Upon death, the soul or spirit of the believer goes immediately to be with God.

2. The Bible also says the believer goes to be with Christ in the presence of the Lord.

3. Believers are alive and conscious in this state.

Johann.

WE all know how painful it is to have our conduct misunderstood and misrepresented, when we are doing right. It is a trial which our Lord Jesus Christ had to endure continually, all through His earthly ministry. We have an instance in the passage before us. The “Scribes which came down from Jerusalem” saw the miracles which He worked. They could not deny their reality. What then did they do? They accused our blessed Saviour of being in league and union with the devil. They said, “He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.”


In our Lord’s solemn answer to this wicked accusation, there are expressions which deserve special attention. Let us see what lessons they contain for our use.
We ought to notice, in the first place, how great is the evil of dissensions and divisions.
This is a lesson which is strongly brought out in the beginning of our Lord’s reply to the scribes. He shows the absurdity of supposing that Satan would “cast out Satan,” and so help to destroy his own power. He appeals to the notorious fact, which even his enemies must allow, that there can be no strength where there is division. “If a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.”


This truth is one which does not receive sufficient consideration. On no point has the abuse of the right of private judgment produced so much evil. The divisions of Christians are one great cause of the weakness of the visible church. They often absorb energy, time, and power, which might have been well bestowed on better things. They furnish the infidel with a prime argument against the truth of Christianity. They help the devil. Satan indeed is the chief promoter of religious divisions. If he cannot extinguish Christianity, he labours to make Christians quarrel with one another, and to set every man’s hand against his neighbour. None knows better than the devil, that “to divide is to conquer.”


Let us resolve, so far as in us lies, to avoid all differences, dissensions, and disputes in religion. Let us loathe and abhor them as the plague of the churches. We cannot be too jealous about all saving truths. But it is easy to mistake morbid scrupulosity for conscientiousness, and zeal about mere trifles for zeal about the truth. Nothing justifies separation from a church but the separation of that church from the gospel. Let us be ready to concede much, and make many sacrifices for the sake of unity and peace.


We ought to notice, in the second place, what a glorious declaration our Lord makes in these verses about the forgiveness of sins. He says, “all sins shall be forgiven to the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme.”
These words fall lightly on the ears of many persons. They see no particular beauty in them. But to the man who is alive to his own sinfulness and deeply sensible of his need of mercy, these words are sweet and precious. “All sins shall be forgiven.” The sins of youth and age,—the sins of head, and hand, and tongue, and imagination,—the sins against all God’s commandments,—the sins of persecutors, like Saul,—the sins of idolaters, like Manasseh,—the sins of open enemies of Christ, like the Jews who crucified Him,—the sins of backsliders from Christ, like Peter,—all, all may be forgiven. The blood of Christ can cleanse all away. The righteousness of Christ can cover all, and hide all from God’s eyes.


The doctrine here laid down is the crown and glory of the gospel. The very first thing it proposes to man is free pardon, full forgiveness, complete remission, without money and without price. “Through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins; and by Him all that believe are justified from all things.” (Acts 13:39.)
Let us lay hold on this doctrine without delay, if we never received it before. It is for us, as well as for others. We too, this very day, if we come to Christ, may be completely forgiven. “Though our sins have been as scarlet, they shall be white as snow.” (Isaiah 1:18.)

Let us cleave firmly to this doctrine, if we have received it already. We may sometimes feel faint, and unworthy, and cast down. But if we have really come to Jesus by faith, our sins are clean forgiven. They are cast behind God’s back,—blotted out of the book of His remembrance,—sunk into the depths of the sea. Let us believe and not be afraid.

We ought to notice, in the last place, that it is possible for a man’s soul to be lost for ever in hell. The words of our Lord are distinct and express. He speaks of one who “hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.”

This is an awful truth, beyond doubt. But it is a truth, and we must not shut our eyes against it. We find it asserted over and over again in Scripture. Figures of all kinds are multiplied, and language of every sort is employed, in order to make it plain and unmistakeable. In short, if there is no such thing as “eternal damnation,” we may throw the Bible aside, and say that words have no meaning at all.

We have great need to keep this awful truth steadily in view in these latter days. Teachers have risen up, who are openly attacking the doctrine of the eternity of punishment, or labouring hard to explain it away. Men’s ears are being tickled with plausible sayings about “the love of God,” and the impossibility of a loving God permitting an everlasting hell.

The eternity of punishment is spoken of as a mere “speculative question,” about which men may believe anything they please.—In the midst of all this flood of false doctrine, let us hold firmly the old truths. Let us not be ashamed to believe that there is an eternal God,—an eternal heaven,—and an eternal hell. Let us recollect that sin is an infinite evil. It needed an atonement of infinite value to deliver the believer from its consequences,—and it entails an infinite loss on the unbeliever who rejects the remedy provided for it. Above all, let us fall back on plain Scriptural statements, like that before us this day. One plain text is worth a thousand abstruse arguments.
Finally, if it be true that there is an “eternal damnation,” let us give diligence that we ourselves do not fall into it. Let us escape for our lives and not linger. (Gen. 19:16, 17.) Let us flee for refuge to the hope set before us in the Gospel, and never rest till we know and feel that we are safe. And never, never let us be ashamed of seeking safety. Of sin, worldliness, and the love of pleasure, we may well be ashamed. But we never need be ashamed of seeking to be delivered from an eternal hell.*
Excerpt from Ryle.

Johann

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ,

I looked over the post. It has the same problems as the others. It doesn't set out to prove aionios means eternal, it simply assumes it. This is Begging the question of Circular Reasoning. Here's the first line.

"What does the word eternal (aionios) mean as it is used in Scripture, NOT as it is used by secular writers, including ancient Greek writers? Thankfully, God's Spirit has used the word aionios numerous times so one may glean an excellent sense of what this word means in the Bible"

He says what does the word eternal (aionios) mean. Right there he has assumed aionios means eternal. He's made no effort to prove it, rahter has just assumed it. What's really funny is that He goes on to renounce the word's use in a secular sense. There isn't a specific Bible language. It's language is the language of the day. The secular usage and the Biblical usage would be the same. I suspect the reason he's done this is to try and head off evidence that opposes his premise. Another issue is his subliminal usage. By saying what does eternal (aionios) mean, He's subtly put it into the readers mind that aionios means eternal. He makes no attempt at an object investigation of the word. Another point that is misleading is when he denounces men. He says,

"Bible. Can you find Greek "authorities" who say aionios does not mean eternal? Absolutely, but every man that claims to be an "authority" on this word is also a sinner and his words are not inspired by God, and thus are fallible and subject to error (they are not inerrant)! Only God's Word is inspired by the Spirit of God (Who is the Spirit of Truth). Only God's Word is infallible. Only God's Word is inerrant. Therefore whatever God says on ANY subject is absolute truth, and takes absolute precedence over how the same word was used in the writings of fallen men. That said, here is what the GOD OF TRUTH SAYS about the crucial word ETERNAL (aionios) (And these are only a few examples to make the point)."

He admits we can find Greek authorities who say aionios doens't mean eternal. Then he denounces them as sinners, fallible, and subject to error. Now, all of that is true. But then he says,

"That said, here is what the GOD OF TRUTH SAYS about the crucial word ETERNAL (aionios)".

He gives his argument a false sense of authority by saying this is what the God of Truth says, and then presenting a translation. Those English translators are just as much, sinners, fallible, and subject to error as the men he denounced. He uses subtle word games, I don't know if it's intentional, to sway the mind into thinking, oh, yes, this is what God says. God didn't give His word in English. That's the product of translators. Those translators have no more "authority" than those he denounced who disagree with him. By denouncing those translators that disagree with him and accepting those that agree with him, he commits the logical fallacy known as Cherry Picking. Here is the definition of Cherry Picking

Cherry Picking Fallacy Definition Cherry-picking fallacy is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone selects certain data to create a misleading argument. It is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position.

The author admits that there are authorities who disagree with him. He then denounces them as sinners. While the ones he accepts are also sinners.

The examples he uses are actually the fallacy known as the Non Sequitur, or it doesn't follow. For example, he says if the aionios punishment isn't eternal, then neither is the aionios life. That's only true if aionios means eternal. If it doesn't mean eternal, then that logic is not valid. Let's look at another example using that same logic.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Lk 1:31–33.

Another person argued this same line of reasoning using this passage. It was claimed that Jesus reign was forever, aion and that there would be "no end" to His Kingdom. The argument was that since the reign is forever (aion) and the kingdom has no end, aion "must" meant forever or eternity. The problem with that argument is that Jesus doesn't reign forever. Paul said He will reign until all enemies are put under His feet.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be tdestroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), 1 Co 15:24–28.

Paul says that Christ will reign until all things are put under Him, then He will be subject to the Father. So, in the first passage we have aion set in contrast to "no end" and yet we see that aion cannot mean eternal in that passage because Paul states plainly that Christ reigns "until". So, what we have here is aion contrasted with "no end" in a situation where it clearly is a limited time.

So, what we have here is a passage showing clearly that aion is not eternal. We have Jesus and the apostles speaking of the end of the aion and Jesus speaks of an aion to come. So, if we're going to be intellectually honest with God's word, we've got to find some way of reconciling these issues. Here is a definition of age.

"the length of time that a person has lived or a thing has existed:"

It's basically a length of time. We're all familiar with the Stone Age, the Iron Age, the Bronze Age and so on. These are all different lengths of time, yet they are all an age. So, we see that an age is a length of time, that the length is determined by the context and not the definition of the word. My age and your age are likely different, but they are both an age. aion is properly translated age. The best way to translate aionios life is to translate it as age enduring life or life for the age. Now, since aion means age and an age is a length of time determined by the context, is it possible that God could create an age that doesn't end? If God did that then we would have an unending or eternal age. However, the definition of age would not change to mean eternal. It would still mean a length of time determined by the context. To confirm this, we need Scripture that defines aionios life without using the word aioinios. We have such a passage from Jesus.

The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Lk 20:34–36.

This passage is critical to our understanding of aion. I bolded and underlined the word "world" in this passage because it is the word "aion" We could translate this as, "the children of this age" and "accounted worthy to obtain that age". Jesus is clearly contrasting two different ages. If we say He's contrasting two different eternities, it doesn't make sense. He's speaking of this age and an age to come in the future. But notice what He says of that age to come. The ones who are worthy to obtain that aion and the Resurrection, are connected here. He connects that age with the Resurrection and then He says they die no more. There is your eternal life. They die no more. That is by definition eternal life. Jesus connects this eternal life with the age to come. This could imply that the age to come will not end. Thus we would have an unending or eternal age. In that unending age we would have age enduring life or aionios life. If the life is age enduring or life for the age and the age doesn't end you have eternal life. But, at the same time the word aion doesn't mean eternal so it fits with all of the other passages of Scripture where it clearly doesn't mean eternal. Let's look at a previous passage again. Some were going to aionios punishment and some to aionious life. What is the punishment for sin? Paul said the wages of sin is death. So, the wicked will suffer age enduring death. If that age is unending so is the death of the wicked. Just as the life is age enduring in an unending age, so too, is the death age enduring in an unending age.

This is how we can reconcile "all" of the passages that use aion. We can harmonize all of them. We don't have problem passages that we have to try to explain away or sweep under the rug. Understood this way aion makes perfect sense in all of the passages in which it appears.

You have good points to consider Butch, thanks for detailed reply.

 

[Butch5]

And right here is the problem.

"Age enduring death of the wicked, does it mean soul sleep, unconscious state, cessation/annihilation of the soul?"

See how you do not elaborate upon this?

As you have said, "The believer upon death goes to the grave"...and not to be with the Lord.

If this be true, which is not, then there is no hope.

But I'll let you dialog with King and the other members.





The spirits of departed believers are with the Lord. The Bible says.

Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7).

The writer to the Hebrews says.

and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect (Hebrews 12:23).



Christ's Presence

At death, the spirit of the believer enters into Christ's presence. Jesus promised the dying robber on the cross that he would be with Him immediately after death.

And Jesus said to him, 'Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise' (Luke 23:43).


Immediately Present

The Apostle Paul also taught that believers would be in Christ's presence upon their death.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed, we shall not be found naked. . . We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:1,2,8).


Paul wrote to the church at Philippi.

For I am hard pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better (Philippians 1:23).

Paul says that his death would be far better for him than remaining alive because he would be in the presence of Christ.

Be With Jesus

Jesus talked about believers being with Him in the next world.

Father, I desire that those also, whom You have given Me, may be with Me where I am, to see My glory, which You have given Me because you loved Me before the foundation of the world (John 17:24).


Stephen

Upon his death, the martyr Stephen called upon Jesus to receive his spirit.

And he [Stephen], being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, 'Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!'. . . And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit' (Acts 7:55,56, 59).


The usual picture of Jesus is sitting on the right hand of God the Father. But when Stephen was about to die, Jesus stood to welcome him into God's presence. This is another indication that the believing dead go immediately to be with Christ.



Conscious

Believers are in a state of awareness after death. Jesus told the religious leaders in His day that God was the God of the living. He reminded them what God had said to Moses.


I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (Matthew 22:32).


With God

When the beggar Lazarus died, the Scripture says.

So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. And the rich man died and he was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side (Luke 16:22,23).

The rich man in Hades saw both Lazarus and Abraham. Each were in a better place.

Live Together

Paul told the church at Thessalonica that believers will always be with the Lord.

Who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him (1 Thessalonians 5:10).

Rest And Blessedness

Believers who die are in a restful state. The Bible says.

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the Word of the Lord and for the testimony they held. And they cried with a loud voice saying, 'How long O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?' And a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants, and their comrades, who would be killed as they were, was completed (Revelation 6:9-11).

Those with the Lord are also blessed.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, 'Write: 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.' Yes, says the Spirit, 'that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them' (Revelation 14:13).

Activity



For this reason they are before the throne of God, and worship Him day and night within His temple, and the One who is seated on the throne will shelter them (Revelation 7:15).

Holiness

The believers are in a state of holiness. In the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John asked an angel the identity of certain individuals.

I said to him, "Sir, you are the one that knows." Then he said to me, "These are they who have come out of the Great Tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb (Revelation 7:14).

The clothes which they are wearing, white robes, speak of holiness.



The Bible only reveals a limited amount of information about what goes on in the presence of the Lord. Paul wrote of his experience.

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know - God knows. And I know that this man - whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows - was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that people are not permitted to tell (2 Corinthians 12:2-4).

Paul was not allowed to tell what he had experienced. If we knew exactly how wonderful it was, we probably would not be content to remain for one more hour on the earth. Being with the Lord will truly be an incredible experience!

Summary

After examining what the Bible says about the "intermediate," or "in between" state of the believer, we can conclude the following.

1. Upon death, the soul or spirit of the believer goes immediately to be with God.

2. The Bible also says the believer goes to be with Christ in the presence of the Lord.

3. Believers are alive and conscious in this state.

Johann.

You're new here my friend. Many already know my answer to that question. At death the soul ceases to exist as its two components have separated. It will exist again at the Resurrection. After that the wicked will die a second death and that. death will be age enduring. If the age is eternal, then so is their death. They are not in some sort of holding pattern. There is no soul sleep. They cease to exist.

Regarding the passages you've posted, I have to point you once again to your presuppositions. Those passage seem to prove that man lives on after death because you already believe that. Not one of those passages states that man lives on after the death of the body. That is an assumption you're bringing to the text. That assumption or presupposition leads you to draw the conclusions you have about those passages. None of them, however, when understood in context say man lives on after death. As I said in another post we need to be intellectually honest with God's word. You need to address the passages that oppose you position. You're Cherry Picking the Scriptures. You're picking passages you think support your position and ignore the ones that show it wrong. Tell me, how did Paul say believers would be with Christ at death when he said if there is no resurrection the dead Corinthian believers had perished? How can Paul have said believers are with Christ at death when John, writing about 30 years after Paul's death, said no one has seen God at any time? Let's be intellectually honest and address these issues.

I'm really busy at thr moment, but when I have time I'll revisit this post to address the passages you've posted.

 

[Butch5]

You have good points to consider Butch, thanks for detailed reply.

Thanks! Logical fallacies can be very subtle and go unnoticed. If we're not looking for them the can sound like solid arguments. I pick them up because I've studied them and I look for them in people's arguments. They are common in debates. It has nothing to do with a person's intelelct, even scholars make them, as we see in these commentaries. They can be very convincing if we don't recognize them.

 

[Brother Paul]

@KingJ,

I looked over the post. It has the same problems as the others. It doesn't set out to prove aionios means eternal, it simply assumes it. This is Begging the question of Circular Reasoning. Here's the first line.

"What does the word eternal (aionios) mean as it is used in Scripture, NOT as it is used by secular writers, including ancient Greek writers? Thankfully, God's Spirit has used the word aionios numerous times so one may glean an excellent sense of what this word means in the Bible"

He says what does the word eternal (aionios) mean. Right there he has assumed aionios means eternal. He's made no effort to prove it, rahter has just assumed it. What's really funny is that He goes on to renounce the word's use in a secular sense. There isn't a specific Bible language. It's language is the language of the day. The secular usage and the Biblical usage would be the same. I suspect the reason he's done this is to try and head off evidence that opposes his premise. Another issue is his subliminal usage. By saying what does eternal (aionios) mean, He's subtly put it into the readers mind that aionios means eternal. He makes no attempt at an object investigation of the word. Another point that is misleading is when he denounces men. He says,

"Bible. Can you find Greek "authorities" who say aionios does not mean eternal? Absolutely, but every man that claims to be an "authority" on this word is also a sinner and his words are not inspired by God, and thus are fallible and subject to error (they are not inerrant)! Only God's Word is inspired by the Spirit of God (Who is the Spirit of Truth). Only God's Word is infallible. Only God's Word is inerrant. Therefore whatever God says on ANY subject is absolute truth, and takes absolute precedence over how the same word was used in the writings of fallen men. That said, here is what the GOD OF TRUTH SAYS about the crucial word ETERNAL (aionios) (And these are only a few examples to make the point)."

He admits we can find Greek authorities who say aionios doens't mean eternal. Then he denounces them as sinners, fallible, and subject to error. Now, all of that is true. But then he says,

"That said, here is what the GOD OF TRUTH SAYS about the crucial word ETERNAL (aionios)".

He gives his argument a false sense of authority by saying this is what the God of Truth says, and then presenting a translation. Those English translators are just as much, sinners, fallible, and subject to error as the men he denounced. He uses subtle word games, I don't know if it's intentional, to sway the mind into thinking, oh, yes, this is what God says. God didn't give His word in English. That's the product of translators. Those translators have no more "authority" than those he denounced who disagree with him. By denouncing those translators that disagree with him and accepting those that agree with him, he commits the logical fallacy known as Cherry Picking. Here is the definition of Cherry Picking

Cherry Picking Fallacy Definition Cherry-picking fallacy is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone selects certain data to create a misleading argument. It is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position.

The author admits that there are authorities who disagree with him. He then denounces them as sinners. While the ones he accepts are also sinners.

The examples he uses are actually the fallacy known as the Non Sequitur, or it doesn't follow. For example, he says if the aionios punishment isn't eternal, then neither is the aionios life. That's only true if aionios means eternal. If it doesn't mean eternal, then that logic is not valid. Let's look at another example using that same logic.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Lk 1:31–33.

Another person argued this same line of reasoning using this passage. It was claimed that Jesus reign was forever, aion and that there would be "no end" to His Kingdom. The argument was that since the reign is forever (aion) and the kingdom has no end, aion "must" meant forever or eternity. The problem with that argument is that Jesus doesn't reign forever. Paul said He will reign until all enemies are put under His feet.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be tdestroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), 1 Co 15:24–28.

Paul says that Christ will reign until all things are put under Him, then He will be subject to the Father. So, in the first passage we have aion set in contrast to "no end" and yet we see that aion cannot mean eternal in that passage because Paul states plainly that Christ reigns "until". So, what we have here is aion contrasted with "no end" in a situation where it clearly is a limited time.

So, what we have here is a passage showing clearly that aion is not eternal. We have Jesus and the apostles speaking of the end of the aion and Jesus speaks of an aion to come. So, if we're going to be intellectually honest with God's word, we've got to find some way of reconciling these issues. Here is a definition of age.

"the length of time that a person has lived or a thing has existed:"

It's basically a length of time. We're all familiar with the Stone Age, the Iron Age, the Bronze Age and so on. These are all different lengths of time, yet they are all an age. So, we see that an age is a length of time, that the length is determined by the context and not the definition of the word. My age and your age are likely different, but they are both an age. aion is properly translated age. The best way to translate aionios life is to translate it as age enduring life or life for the age. Now, since aion means age and an age is a length of time determined by the context, is it possible that God could create an age that doesn't end? If God did that then we would have an unending or eternal age. However, the definition of age would not change to mean eternal. It would still mean a length of time determined by the context. To confirm this, we need Scripture that defines aionios life without using the word aioinios. We have such a passage from Jesus.

The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

The Holy Bible: King James Version, Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009), Lk 20:34–36.

This passage is critical to our understanding of aion. I bolded and underlined the word "world" in this passage because it is the word "aion" We could translate this as, "the children of this age" and "accounted worthy to obtain that age". Jesus is clearly contrasting two different ages. If we say He's contrasting two different eternities, it doesn't make sense. He's speaking of this age and an age to come in the future. But notice what He says of that age to come. The ones who are worthy to obtain that aion and the Resurrection, are connected here. He connects that age with the Resurrection and then He says they die no more. There is your eternal life. They die no more. That is by definition eternal life. Jesus connects this eternal life with the age to come. This could imply that the age to come will not end. Thus we would have an unending or eternal age. In that unending age we would have age enduring life or aionios life. If the life is age enduring or life for the age and the age doesn't end you have eternal life. But, at the same time the word aion doesn't mean eternal so it fits with all of the other passages of Scripture where it clearly doesn't mean eternal. Let's look at a previous passage again. Some were going to aionios punishment and some to aionious life. What is the punishment for sin? Paul said the wages of sin is death. So, the wicked will suffer age enduring death. If that age is unending so is the death of the wicked. Just as the life is age enduring in an unending age, so too, is the death age enduring in an unending age.

This is how we can reconcile "all" of the passages that use aion. We can harmonize all of them. We don't have problem passages that we have to try to explain away or sweep under the rug. Understood this way aion makes perfect sense in all of the passages in which it appears.

excellent response

 

[Butch5]

Hey ladies and gents,

These discussions really are based in one's presuppositions. Consider we have two scientists. They both attended the same school and have the same credentials. Both scientists look at the same fossil record. They use the same scientific methods. The only difference between them is that one is a creationist and the other is an evolutionist. How is it that they can both view the same evidence, fossil record, and come to two completely different conclusions? It's because they start with different presuppositions. One presupposes God exists and the other doesn't. It's this starting point or their presuppositions that lead them to different conclusions. This is the same issue we have when we approach Scripture. Here is a video of a Creationist, who is an astrophysicist. He was, and may still be, with the Institute for Creation Research. In this video he shows how evolutionists and Christians commit logical fallacies and explains some of the more common ones. If you're serious about God's word this will be an hour well spent.

Also, in this video he addresses these same issues.