Discussion on the afterlife.

[*Lavender]

Hello @complete @Butch5 @StewardoftheMystery @GodB4Us @Curtis @Br. Bear

There are two threads in relation to the after life.

Please could we continue to discuss them.

It must have been about 2009 and 2010 and I was on a forum from the USA, and they discussed and debated this subject to smithereens.
There was a lot of emotion as well and lots of fierce anger. I know we need to discuss this with respect and aim to be polite and calm.
Then around that time I studied this and didn't form my opinions overnight. It was years.

I would like to discuss the resurrections.
For the dead will be raised.

Acts 24:15 described to be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

Daniel 12:2 Many that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5: 25, 28-29 the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation.

In connecting this with 1 Peter 1: 23-25 1 Corinthians 15:38-58

That they surely show that the born again have the imperishable seed , through the living and abiding Word of God.
Consequently this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality v53

Must only be applicable to the born again children of God.
Thats because " death is swallowed up in victory ." v54
Without the sting of death and without the grave obtaining victory. v55

If 1 Corinthians 15: 53 applied to all having an imperishable body as some believe, then it would make no sense to not have the sting of death, when there is a second death. Therefore they must be raised to have a terrestrial body that is perishable.

I've seen some very disturbing doctrine that all are purposely raised with an imperishable body and some have eternal life and others exist within eternal death.

Surely that is from pagan roots, as there appears to be several sources supporting this, from church history.

In fact some of the things that are considered new , were existing right from the beginning and tradition came in inbetween.

The lake of fire is often believed to be literal, and others believe it to be metaphoric. Some say they suffer but not in a literal fire and others say they may even have a reasonable existance but have regrets, and continually hunger and thirst that will never reach fulfilment.
I like so much to think everyone will be saved but what does the bible say?

 

[GodB4Us]

I believe the rapture event is before the great tribulation for why Jesus is warning the churches to be ready or else be left behind as warned in the Book of Revelation as well as various places in the 4 gospels.

That rapture would be the first harvest as firstfruits of the resurrection when the O.T. saints and the disciples of the N.T. are resurrected and caught up in the air to be forever with the Lord.

The second harvest or resurrection will be at the end of the great tribulation as they, left behind saints and former believers as well as new believers after the rapture, that be Christ's at His coming as the King of kings.

Then the third harvest will be those in the generations coming in the 1000 year reign that remain loyal to Christ after Satan is released from the pit after a thousand years to stage a last rebellion for a small season. Some may die remaining loyal to Him for why there would be a resurrection then, but by then , it should be the Great White Throne Judgment where all the dead are raised to be judged at that time.

These three harvests will make up the whole of the kingdom of heaven before Jesus gives it back to the Father.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

So there is the rapture event; resurrection of O.T. saints with N.T. saints that shall be found abiding in Him as His disciples Luke 13:24-30

Then the resurrection of the saints that that did not get resurrected at the rapture including the left behind unrepentant saints & former believers, & new believers after the rapture that went through the great tribulation after the great tribulation;

Then the final resurrection at the Great White Throne Judgment.

And so not every one will be found written in the Book of Life as there will be those that will be judged to go to the lake of fire to suffer eternal torment forever.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

That is my understanding of the 3 kinds of resurrection that is coming and how in the end, there will be a judgment on those not found written in the Book of Life that will be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Concerning the timing of the first resurrection…..

So when is the resurrection of the dead, and the living in Christ being caught up to the Lord?

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”​

Notice we see #1 the Lord himself decending, #2 the trump of the archangel is sounded, #3 “the dead rise first”and #4 the living are caught up to meet the Lord.

So when do the dead in Christ rise first? The answer is below…

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

So it is clear, the dead are raised on “the last day”.
Notice the judgment is also on the last day as well….
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The Judgment of saints is shown on the last day…. Revelation 20:4 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Confirmed here….

Daniel 7:21-22 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.”​

When do saints posses the kingdoms of this world?

Revelation 11:15 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”​

Daniel was told when he shall stand in the lot of his inheritance, at that was not until the end.

Daniel 12:13 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.​

Notice in the above, (Daniel 7:22) Christ first comes and the judgment is given to the saints on the last day.

So when does Christ come?

Son of Gods coming last day….

Luke 17:26-31​

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”​

Notice above it was “the day” Noah entered they were destroyed, and “the same day” Lot left Sodom they were destroyed.
At the last day, at the Last Trump….

1Corinthians 15:51-52 “Behold I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead in Christ shall be raised incorruptable, and we shall be changed”

Notice at the last trump the dead are raised, and so what happens at the last trump…

Revelation 10:7 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.​

Revelation 11:12 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.​

Revelation 11:15 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”​

Also notice the elect are still on earth during the great tribulation and wrath of God.

Matthew 24:22 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.​

Revelation 7:14 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

During the wrath period, saints are told keep their garments….

Revelation 16:15 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.​

All the scriptures agree there is no resurrection of the dead or living in Christ until the last day, and at the last trump.


Now some will try to use Matthew 24:40-41 And Luke 17:34-37 as pre-trib rapture proof, but again Jesus says it has to do with His coming, when the Son is revealed. And both of those prophecies speak of the destruction of the ungodly on that same day, as it was in Noah’s day and in Lots day, just as we saw above in Luke 17:26-31. It says the same in Matthew 24:38 that “the day” Noah entered the ark the flood came and took them all away.

Now in Luke17:36 Jesus said one shall be taken, and the other left. In the next verse Jesus is asked where? Jesus replies “Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.”

To prove this has to do with Christs second coming we go to Matthew 24:27-28 “ For as the lightning comes out of th east, and shines even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.”

So what is Jesus speaking of here about a carcase and eagles being gathered together?

Jesus is speaking of the supper of the great God mentioned in Revelation 19:17 And if you look at the context of Revelation chapter 19:11-21 it is about the second coming of Christ with all his saints, the marriage supper of the Lamb, the slaughter of the beasts army and the kings of the earth, and their flesh being fed to the fowls. And also the judgment of the beast and false prophet, which happens on the last day.

Revelation 19:11-2111 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.​

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;​

18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”​

So all the scriptures agree, all these things happen on the last day.

 

[complete]

Hello @complete @Butch5 @StewardoftheMystery
@GodB4Us @Curtis @Br. Bear
There are two threads in relation to the after life.

Please could we continue to discuss them.

It must have been about 2009 and 2010 and I was on a forum from the USA, and they discussed and debated this subject to smithereens.
There was a lot of emotion as well and lots of fierce anger. I know we need to discuss this with respect and aim to be polite and calm.
Then around that time I studied this and didn't form my opinions overnight. It was years.

I would like to discuss the resurrections.
For the dead will be raised.

Acts 24:15 described to be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

Daniel 12:2 Many that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5: 25, 28-29 the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation.

In connecting this with 1 Peter 1: 23-25 1 Corinthians 15:38-58

Hello @Lavenderfields,

Thank you for including me.

* The resurrection of the just and the unjust is that believed by the Jews as Paul said in his defence before Felix the governor in Acts 24:15, that you reference:-
'And have hope toward God, which they themselves (the Jews) also allow,
that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.'

* This resurrection is that to which Martha also referred in John 11:24, in relation to her brother, Lazarus, who had died:-
'Martha saith unto Him (the Lord),
I know that he shall rise again
in the resurrection at the last day.'

* Martha also tells us when that resurrection will take place, 'at the last day', so that leaves us in no doubt, Yes?

* You have listed Daniel 12:2 & John 5:19-29, ...
'Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming,
in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,
and shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;
and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.'
(Joh 5:28-29)

* ... and 1 Peter 1: 23-25 1 Corinthians 15:38-58:-
Your choice of 1 Peter 1:23-25 is an unusual one to have chosen, and I thank you for it: verses 18-29 are a joy.

'Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible,
by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass.
The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever.
And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.'
(1Pe 1:23-25)

* This man who sat under the ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ, who had handled the Lord, and shared his life, seen the works of God carried out by Him, and heard the words of God which He uttered. He had heard the parable of the sower sowing the seed, and had heard it's explanation as one to whom the mysteries of the Kingdom were revealed. Here it's fruit is being born out in the words that Peter is saying to those under His ministry, as one of the twelve. Wonderful - Thank you, Lavenderfields.

* Also, again in the other reference you made to 1 Corinthians 15:35-42, the natural and resurrection bodies are likened to seed sown:-

' It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul;
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural;
and afterward that which is spiritual.'
(1Cor 15:44-46)

That they surely show that the born again have the imperishable seed ,
through the living and abiding Word of God.
Consequently this corruptible must put on in-corruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality v53

Must only be applicable to the born again children of God.
That's because " death is swallowed up in victory ." v54
Without the sting of death and without the grave obtaining victory. v55

If 1 Corinthians 15: 53 applied to all having an imperishable body as some believe, then it would make no sense to not have the sting of death, when there is a second death. Therefore they must be raised to have a terrestrial body that is perishable.

* Interesting thinking, Lavenderfields. Thank you again. Praise God! That He has made us all so different. We each have something to contribute to the thinking of the other, because of our differing perspectives on what we read in God's word.

I've seen some very disturbing doctrine that all are purposely raised with an imperishable body and some have eternal life and others exist within eternal death.

Surely that is from pagan roots, as there appears to be several sources supporting this, from church history.

In fact some of the things that are considered new , were existing right from the beginning and tradition came in between.

The lake of fire is often believed to be literal, and others believe it to be metaphoric. Some say they suffer but not in a literal fire and others say they may even have a reasonable existence but have regrets, and continually hunger and thirst that will never reach fulfilment.
I like so much to think everyone will be saved but what does the bible say?

* All will not be saved. For not all will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thereby receive forgiveness of sins, and have peace with God.

I don't know where you would like this train of thought go from here, Lavenderfields, so I will close here with love in Christ Jesus, and wait on you to take it forward, if you wish.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[GodB4Us]

Concerning the timing of the first resurrection…..

So all the scriptures agree, all these things happen on the last day.

What say you about how there is a resurrection of those that went through the great tribulation after the great tribulation that was to happen first before the rest of the dead are raised later on after that 1000 year reign of Christ?

Revelation 20:1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

How do you apply the last day to mean then when the Great White Throne Judgment is after Christ's reign on earth when there was a resurrection before Christ began His 1000 year reign on earth?

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

What say you about how there is a resurrection of those that went through the great tribulation after the great tribulation that was to happen first before the rest of the dead are raised later on after that 1000 year reign of Christ?

Revelation 20:1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

How do you apply the last day to mean then when the Great White Throne Judgment is after Christ's reign on earth when there was a resurrection before Christ began His 1000 year reign on earth?

My post was about the timing of the first resurrection at the last day.

Revelation 20:5-6​

​

King James Version​

​

​

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Br. Bear]

@Lavenderfields

Greetings,

thank you for including me.

I won't comment [much] now but if you find me 'missing in action' please tag me at any time and I shall try to respond as soon as practical.

Are you interested in the whole picture of 'what is life' and 'what is therefore, after life'?
Those questions would also include 'what is death'.

Always good to study quietly in fellowship to build each other up and encourage one another. Sometimes we must be brave enough to realise that the 'normal' way of interpreting what the Bible says might not and sometimes is not what the Scriptures mean.

Jesus is the Lord


Bless you ....><>

 

[*Lavender]

@Lavenderfields

Greetings,

thank you for including me.

I won't comment [much] now but if you find me 'missing in action' please tag me at any time and I shall try to respond as soon as practical.

Are you interested in the whole picture of 'what is life' and 'what is therefore, after life'?
Those questions would also include 'what is death'.

Always good to study quietly in fellowship to build each other up and encourage one another. Sometimes we must be brave enough to realise that the 'normal' way of interpreting what the Bible says might not and sometimes is not what the Scriptures mean.

Jesus is the Lord


Bless you ....><>

Yes I'm interested in the whole picture of what is life and the after Life.
Many also are including those born again of God. They all have different viewpoints I found. Not just in the same denominations but in the same household.
In fellowship knowing the precious importance that Jesus is the truth. Our Saviour and friend in Christ.
Showing us the truth , and it's a journey.

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face.

Thank you for posting and for your contributions .

Thank you all for your contributions on this thread

 

[GodB4Us]

My post was about the timing of the first resurrection at the last day.

Revelation 20:5-6​

​

King James Version​

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Just commenting on your past insistence that the last day cannot mean anything other day than one specific last day.

If we read this verse below in according to how it is written without aligning it with other scripture, we would think there is no other resurrection until the Great White Throne Judgment.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

So the firstfruits of the resurrection were raised in their last day at the pre great tribulation rapture event just as those that be Christ at His coming were raised in their last day after the great tribulation.

Just trying to point out how a single verse can be misinterpreted without aligning with scripture just as your use of last day can be misinterpreted when ignoring the order of resurrections for what makes up the whole of the kingdom of heaven.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Just commenting on your past insistence that the last day cannot mean anything other day than one specific last day.

Which is confirmed by the words of Jesus, and all the scriptures I posted in my first post.

If we read this verse below in according to how it is written without aligning it with other scripture,

That is the important part, your doctrine needs to align with ALL the words of God on not only this topic, but all. God’s words do not contradict, they agree and confirm the Truth, as does the Spirit.

we would think there is no other resurrection until the Great White Throne Judgment.

Just because man thinks it is true, does not make it true.

Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Yes I agree with the words of God.

So the firstfruits of the resurrection were raised in their last day at the pre great tribulation rapture event

That is the doctrines of carnally minded men trying to force a pre-trib rapture doctrine into scripture that is not supported by the words of God.=false doctrine

Just trying to point out how a single verse can be misinterpreted without aligning with scripture

Again, that is why it is so important to confirm your doctrine by “every word” of God.

just as your use of last day can be misinterpreted when ignoring the order of resurrections

I did not ignore any order, but confirmed the order of events by the words of God, which all align perfectly, and all agree that the dead in Christ rise first, and that is at the last day as Jesus said.

If you don’t believe Jesus, then who am I to convince you?

 

[GodB4Us]

Which is confirmed by the words of Jesus, and all the scriptures I posted in my first post.

That is the important part, your doctrine needs to align with ALL the words of God on not only this topic, but all. God’s words do not contradict, they agree and confirm the Truth, as does the Spirit.

Just because man thinks it is true, does not make it true.

Yes I agree with the words of God.

The resurrection of the just and unjust can be applied by how you apply the last day to mean.

That is the doctrines of carnally minded men trying to force a pre-trib rapture doctrine into scripture that is not supported by the words of God.=false doctrine

Can Jesus comes like a thief in the night when the world's armies are marching against Jerusalem at the end of the great tribulation? Zechariah 14:1-5

Can believers be tempted to love their lives on earth not to leave it when the beast is waging war on the saints for the duration of the great tribulation? Luke 14:15-24 <-- does not read like great tribulation to me

Can believers work the fields and work in a mill at the end of the great tribulation Luke 17:26-37, let alone during the great tribulation to be able to buy to be tempted to get drunk? Luke 21:33-36

Again, that is why it is so important to confirm your doctrine by “every word” of God.

I did not ignore any order, but confirmed the order of events by the words of God, which all align perfectly, and all agree that the dead in Christ rise first, and that is at the last day as Jesus said.

Point is, there is no order of resurrection of men in according to you, if you think about it. You just see Christ as the first order then the men, but the scripture said every man in his order, listing two groups of saints; Christ the firstfruits plural and they that be Christ's at His coming.

If you don’t believe Jesus, then who am I to convince you?

I do believe Jesus. I believe Paul. I believe Peter. I believe John, And only He can convince you of what I am seeing in His words.

Jesus is warning believers and the churches to be ready or else because of the falling away from the faith is why He has to judge His House first at the rapture event as the Bridegroom. Those thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit after a sign like in slain in the spirit, holy laughter movement, Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessings, Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade, and the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues are out to the market for why they were not found abiding in Him to be ready to go, but regardless of how foolish those five virgins were, they along with the 5 wise virgins ARE the kingdom of heaven even though they missed out on the Marriage Supper per Matthew 25:1-13

Consider this, who are the prodigal son that gave up his inheritance for wild living and yet still a son?

Who are the least in the kingdom of heaven for breaking the least of His commandments and teaching others so and yet still be part of the kingdom of heaven? Matthew 5:19

Who are the vessels unto dishonor in His House that did not depart from iniquity, but still in His House as vessels of wood and earth per 2 Timothy 2:19-21 ?

The only way there can be saints as the least and vessels unto dishonor is the result of God judging His House first from where they come from as left behind for not being ready for the Bridegroom as the case was for the 5 foolish virgins.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

The resurrection of the just and unjust can be applied by how you apply the last day to mean.

Can Jesus comes like a thief in the night when the world's armies are marching against Jerusalem at the end of the great tribulation? Zechariah 14:1-5

Can believers be tempted to love their lives on earth not to leave it when the beast is waging war on the saints for the duration of the great tribulation? Luke 14:15-24 <-- does not read like great tribulation to me

Can believers work the fields and work in a mill at the end of the great tribulation Luke 17:26-37, let alone during the great tribulation to be able to buy to be tempted to get drunk? Luke 21:33-36

Point is, there is no order of resurrection of men in according to you, if you think about it. You just see Christ as the first order then the men, but the scripture said every man in his order, listing two groups of saints; Christ the firstfruits plural and they that be Christ's at His coming.

I do believe Jesus. I believe Paul. I believe Peter. I believe John, And only He can convince you of what I am seeing in His words.

Jesus is warning believers and the churches to be ready or else because of the falling away from the faith is why He has to judge His House first at the rapture event as the Bridegroom. Those thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit after a sign like in slain in the spirit, holy laughter movement, Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessings, Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade, and the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues are out to the market for why they were not found abiding in Him to be ready to go, but regardless of how foolish those five virgins were, they along with the 5 wise virgins ARE the kingdom of heaven even though they missed out on the Marriage Supper per Matthew 25:1-13

Consider this, who are the prodigal son that gave up his inheritance for wild living and yet still a son?

Who are the least in the kingdom of heaven for breaking the least of His commandments and teaching others so and yet still be part of the kingdom of heaven? Matthew 5:19

Who are the vessels unto dishonor in His House that did not depart from iniquity, but still in His House as vessels of wood and earth per 2 Timothy 2:19-21 ?

The only way there can be saints as the least and vessels unto dishonor is the result of God judging His House first from where they come from as left behind for not being ready for the Bridegroom as the case was for the 5 foolish virgins.

I have already gone over this topic with you in another thread. I can connect the dots for people, but I cannot make them see or understand. Peace

 

[complete]

'For our conversation is in heaven;
from whence also we look for the Saviour,
the Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall change our vile body,
that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body,
according to the working whereby He is able
even to subdue all things unto Himself.'
(Php 3:20-21)

'But now is Christ risen from the dead,
and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.'
(1Cor. 15:20-22)

Praise God!

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Focusing too much on the next life or "after life" is a distraction. It's a form of escapism that could cripple our resolve to engage in THIS LIFE and multiply our God given talent. Our current spiritual life is a PREVIEW of our next life, either heaven or hell. We are creatures of habit, what we do daily determines what we become PERMANENTLY. This is proven in epigenetics that our own behavior could turn on or turn off the expression of certain genes.

In the judgement of nations, both the righteous and the wicked are surprised, the wicked are rejected even though they think they've been honoring God for their entire life, the righteous are accepted even though they've never been aware of their chritable deeds. So my conclusion is, make the most of this life, and leave the next life for God to decide.

 

[complete]

Yes I'm interested in the whole picture of what is life and the after Life.
Many also are including those born again of God. They all have different viewpoints I found. Not just in the same denominations but in the same household.
In fellowship knowing the precious importance that Jesus is the truth. Our Saviour and friend in Christ.
Showing us the truth , and it's a journey.

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face.

Thank you for posting and for your contributions .

Thank you all for your contributions on this thread

Hello again, @Lavenderfields,

​

I understand your desire to understand what will take place following our physical entry into resurrection life, having been resurrected out from among the dead. That will take place prior at the second advent of our Lord, Yes?

* The second advent ,- 'the first resurrection' - The kingdom established,- the King enthroned, and, - 'the day of the Lord' :-
( Matt. 24:25, 31: Luke 19:11-27; Isaiah 2:11-19; Joel 2 )
* The chosen nation (Israel) is recalled and blessed:-
( Romans 11:11-36; Acts 15:16; Isaiah 60, 61, 62; Jeremiah 30, 31; Zechariah 12:13-14 & chapter )
* Mankind is dealt with as a whole:-
( Joel 3:2; Matthew 25:31-46; Acts 15:17; Romans 15:8-12; Revelation 4:19 )
* Satan bound and the consequences:-
( Revelation 20:1-3 )
* The Earth restored and blessed:-
( Revelation 20:4-6; Isaiah 35 & chapter ) - ' The Millennium Reign of the Overcomers with Christ.'
* Satan's Final Rebellion:-
( Revelation 20:7-10 ) - Followed by 'the second resurrection' and the judgment of the 'great white throne', The destruction of 'all things that offend' ( Revelation 20:11-15 ).
* The New Heaven and New Earth, 'The day of God':-
( Revelation 21:22; 2 Peter 3:12-13; Isaiah 65:17; 66:22 )

@Lavenderfields, this list (above) is the latter part of a larger list, giving an outline of the eternal purpose of God (Ephesians 3:11) which is at the back of my Bible appendix. I find it good to be able to see an outline like this, for it helps to sort out what happens, when, and in what order,

* Whatever part we are called upon to play in all this, we can be sure of one thing, we will not be idle.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[*Lavender]

Hello again, @Lavenderfields,

​

I understand your desire to understand what will take place following our physical entry into resurrection life, having been resurrected out from among the dead. That will take place prior at the second advent of our Lord, Yes?

* The second advent ,- 'the first resurrection' - The kingdom established,- the King enthroned, and, - 'the day of the Lord' :-
( Matt. 24:25, 31: Luke 19:11-27; Isaiah 2:11-19; Joel 2 )
* The chosen nation (Israel) is recalled and blessed:-
( Romans 11:11-36; Acts 15:16; Isaiah 60, 61, 62; Jeremiah 30, 31; Zechariah 12:13-14 & chapter )
* Mankind is dealt with as a whole:-
( Joel 3:2; Matthew 25:31-46; Acts 15:17; Romans 15:8-12; Revelation 4:19 )
* Satan bound and the consequences:-
( Revelation 20:1-3 )
* The Earth restored and blessed:-
( Revelation 20:4-6; Isaiah 35 & chapter ) - ' The Millennium Reign of the Overcomers with Christ.'
* Satan's Final Rebellion:-
( Revelation 20:7-10 ) - Followed by 'the second resurrection' and the judgment of the 'great white throne', The destruction of 'all things that offend' ( Revelation 20:11-15 ).
* The New Heaven and New Earth, 'The day of God':-
( Revelation 21:22; 2 Peter 3:12-13; Isaiah 65:17; 66:22 )

@Lavenderfields, this list (above) is the latter part of a larger list, giving an outline of the eternal purpose of God (Ephesians 3:11) which is at the back of my Bible appendix. I find it good to be able to see an outline like this, for it helps to sort out what happens, when, and in what order,

* Whatever part we are called upon to play in all this, we can be sure of one thing, we will not be idle.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

* Whatever part we are called upon to play in all this, we can be sure of one thing, we will not be idle.

Thank you Chris.
Absolutely. God knows us. Knows us offline and what we do.

Of course it's a subject that I'm interested in but am interested in other subjects too. That's what this forum is for. There are so many things that we do and being in the world but not of the world.
Sometimes I don't get time to read in here. That's coming up as mentioned before

 

[Curtis]

Exodus 23, and Leviticus 19

You will find in the old testament that the Lord God commanded his people before they would harvest their crop(s), that they should go into the fields and gather only the best of that crop, and offer them unto God as “THE FIRST FRUITS”

Next, after they had done that, they were to go into the fields to gather all the crops (main harvest), except they were not to harvest the “CORNERS OF THEIR FIELDS”. The corners of the fields were to be left for the poor, and less fortunate who would “GLEAN” the fields for free. There are several accounts of this in scripture where women of faith went out to glean in the fields.

Every single Harvest had three separate phases to it, yet they are called “ONE” harvest. There is only one harvest when it comes to the resurrection of the just, but there are three separate phases to this one harvest (resurrection)

We have Jesus Christ who just so happens to be called the “FIRST FRUITS”
Remember Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life"

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: CHRIST THE FIRST FRUITS; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

This should tell us something about the closeness of the next phase which would be the “MAIN” harvest which would be the “Rapture” or the “catching away of the wheat into his God's barns”

The Harvest already began more than 2000 years ago with the resurrection of Jesus Christ being the First Fruits!!!
The final “PHASE” of this “ONE” harvest would be the “GLEANING” (resurrection) of all the tribulation saints who missed the rapture but came to faith during the tribulation period. They will have to die for their faith, and this will happen at the end of the second coming of Jesus Christ to this earth to make war with the beast along with all of his saints coming with him.


The "Gleaning" completes the "first resurrection" One thousand years separate the resurrection of the just, from the unjust.

 

[GodB4Us]

Focusing too much on the next life or "after life" is a distraction. It's a form of escapism that could cripple our resolve to engage in THIS LIFE and multiply our God given talent. Our current spiritual life is a PREVIEW of our next life, either heaven or hell. We are creatures of habit, what we do daily determines what we become PERMANENTLY. This is proven in epigenetics that our own behavior could turn on or turn off the expression of certain genes.

In the judgement of nations, both the righteous and the wicked are surprised, the wicked are rejected even though they think they've been honoring God for their entire life, the righteous are accepted even though they've never been aware of their chritable deeds. So my conclusion is, make the most of this life, and leave the next life for God to decide.

People that believe in the evolution theory are teaching from it that there is nothing after death as there is no God and therefore no consequences for their actions down here as we are all existing by random chance.

It is rather odd that this thinking that we feel nothing after death or even aware of anything after death has crept into Christian circles.

That is the whole point of Jesus referencing the rich man in hell and the beggar Lazarus in Abraham's bosom as the rich man wanted someone to be raised from the dead to warn his family of this hell he was in to avoid it, but Jesus said that the living has the scripture and so if they do not believe God's words, they will not believe the words of one risen from the dead.

Hell in the afterlife exists for why Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners from it. As Adam did not believe God and His words but hearkened unto the woman in eating from the forbidden tree for why mankind fell, death by sin, so then is by believing Jesus Christ and His words that by believing in Him is how one receives eternal life.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

People that believe in the evolution theory are teaching from it that there is nothing after death as there is no God and therefore no consequences for their actions down here as we are all existing by random chance.

It is rather odd that this thinking that we feel nothing after death or even aware of anything after death has crept into Christian circles.

That is the whole point of Jesus referencing the rich man in hell and the beggar Lazarus in Abraham's bosom as the rich man wanted someone to be raised from the dead to warn his family of this hell he was in to avoid it, but Jesus said that the living has the scripture and so if they do not believe God's words, they will not believe the words of one risen from the dead.

Hell in the afterlife exists for why Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners from it. As Adam did not believe God and His words but hearkened unto the woman in eating from the forbidden tree for why mankind fell, death by sin, so then is by believing Jesus Christ and His words that by believing in Him is how one receives eternal life.

Nothing after death? Quite the contrary, after death there's an eternity. Just think about how you feel in a vivid dream. All I'm saying is that no matter what the direction of your spiritual life is, after death, you'll move in that direction FOREVER. There's only one direction that points to the kingdom of heaven down the narrow road, and the Holy Spirit is the guide. I assure you, that has nothing to do with evolutionary theory or the worldview thereof. In other words, eternal life is the continuation of our current spiritual life for eternity.

Why it's not a good idea to think too much about "afterlife"? Because it's COUNTERINTUITIVE, mark this word. The gospel is counterintuitive. Faith is counterintuitive. The kingdom is counterintuitive. Christianity as a whole is counterintuitive. "The first will be last and the last first." The judgement of nations in Matt. 25 is a perfect example, the verdict is the opposite of what both the goats' and the sheep's expectation. Therefore it's not a good idea to dive too deep into this topic, because chances are, it might not be how you picture it. The only certainty is eternal union with God in heaven and eternal union with a false idol, controlled by satan's fallen angel, in hell.

 

[complete]

Nothing after death? Quite the contrary, after death there's an eternity. Just think about how you feel in a vivid dream. All I'm saying is that no matter what the direction of your spiritual life is, after death, you'll move in that direction FOREVER. There's only one direction that points to the kingdom of heaven down the narrow road, and the Holy Spirit is the guide. I assure you, that has nothing to do with evolutionary theory or the worldview thereof. In other words, eternal life is the continuation of our current spiritual life for eternity.

Why it's not a good idea to think too much about "afterlife"? Because it's COUNTERINTUITIVE, mark this word. The gospel is counterintuitive. Faith is counterintuitive. The kingdom is counterintuitive. Christianity as a whole is counterintuitive. "The first will be last and the last first." The judgement of nations in Matt. 25 is a perfect example, the verdict is the opposite of what both the goats' and the sheep's expectation. Therefore it's not a good idea to dive too deep into this topic, because chances are, it might not be how you picture it. The only certainty is eternal union with God in heaven and eternal union with a false idol, controlled by satan's fallen angel, in hell.

Hello @Jonathan_Gale,

If man does not have an immortal soul, then there is no eternity for him. The gift of life is something that God gives to those who have believed on His Son the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord. The redemption of that purchased possession, that Christ gave His life for, takes place at the resurrection from the dead, when the believer is effectively 'born again' into resurrection life.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris