Spiritual law

[GodB4Us]

Till means “until” heaven and earth pass away. Has heaven and earth passed away? No. So not one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from THE LAW, UNTIL ALL BE FULFILLED!

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Until heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, until ALL be fulfilled.

I think you have a half glass empty view of the verse, brother.

Remember that not everything is translated into English well enough, let alone adhering to English grammar, but I do not think that is the case.

I see that verse as applying until as meaning... "before"...

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Before heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, until ALL be fulfilled.

Rewording it below...

For verily I say unto you, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, until ALL be fulfilled before Heaven and earth pass.

Rewording your verse as using both until and mayhap you may see my point.

For verily I say unto you, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, until ALL be fulfilled Until heaven and earth pass,

So that is how I am reading and applying that verse to mean. You may look at "It is finished" as said by Jesus at the cross with a whole new meaning.

 

[God's Truth]

Not “all” the law and prophets has been fulfilled. Pay attention to the OP…….

I saw that and explained to you that Jesus came to fulfill EVERYTHING.
Jesus did what he came to do.

In Matthew 5:18 we read; “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till “all be fulfilled.”

You misunderstand that scripture.
Jesus says he came to fulfill everything, but you say no he didn't fulfill everything when he came.

So instead of you accepting that truth, you go against it just to make Matthew 5:18 say something it doesn't.

Jesus is saying that all is going to be fulfilled and that heaven and earth would pass away before one jot of the the written word.

I am showing types and shadows in this thread, not here to argue about what has, or has not been fulfilled.

Is the site just for you to promote your beliefs?

 

[God's Truth]

Again from the OP……

I read your OP.

This thread is not a debate over whether or not we are saved by our own works of law; because I know of a Truth we are saved by Grace through faith.

I am telling you what the Bible says about Jesus fulfilling everything.
Since the Word of God tells us we have to obey Jesus for him to fulfill everything in our life, you would think you would be glad to hear it instead of go against the Truth.

But the main point of this thread is to show others that there are actually 2 laws at work; one which is natural or carnal, the other which is spiritual. How one "sees" them is determined by 2 separate mindsets; one which is carnally minded, and the other which is spiritually minded.”

I am not going to argue with those who have no idea what it is I am talking about. I am simply showing “types and shadows” that are in the law.

I explained to you what the truth is and you didn't disprove what I said.

 

[God's Truth]

Moses being of the Jew.....

Moses was a Hebrew and God commanded him to teach what we now call the old law.

We have to believe that Jesus will help us to abide in Him & to follow Him since that is what a Good Shepherd does. Do you trust Him to do His job and His work in you to follow Him by faith or not?

Faith alone is dead just like He says in James.
Jesus tells us many times to obey and when he died his words did not change.

It is about HOW we can follow Him; you either look to yourself to do the best you can to follow Him by keeping that commitment OR you look to Him to elp you to folow Him all the time for we can do nothing without Him.

Jesus tells us what to do to get saved, and then he tells us what to do to stay saved. He saves and helps those who does what he says that is who he lives with and continues to help.

And what happens when you do? Give up. Throw in the towel?

Where do you ever get to do that?

Or ask for forgiveness and ask Jesus for help to lead you away from temptations & even resist temptations so you will not do that again? What do you do?

I trust everything that Jesus says.
He says he helps those who get his teachings and obeys. And he does.

In according to His words, when a man makes a vow, it is his bond that he must do ALL that proceeds out of his mouth. God cannot help him keep that vow.

Do you really want to speak against being in a covenant with God? We have to go in the covenant with Jesus and Jesus says that is who he helps.


covenant, a binding promise of far-reaching importance in the relations between individuals, groups, and nations. It has social, legal, religious, and other aspects.

covenant | religion - Encyclopedia Britannica​

Numbers 30:2 That is why Jesus warned against it because we are to be the works of His hands per His New Covenant.

If you don't obey Jesus then you are not in the covenant with God.

His words, not mine.

His yoke is easy & His burden is light and by learning of Him is how we obtain it becase we are resting in Him to do it as it is His yoke that is upon us as it is His work that He shall finish to His glory.

Do you understand what a yoke is? It is his yoke to be put ON US.

You need to ask Jesus about how His yoke is easy and His burden is light for how and when we find rests for our souls.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Did you read His words and applied it accordingly? prove it by telling me how you apply it rather than going to your mantra about obeying Jesus as if by the religious flesh and will power of mankind

We are not blessed, not a disciple, not a family member and friend if we do not do what Jesus says.


Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, "If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples

 

[God's Truth]

Best apply His words to what He is talking about rather than for pundit points for your theological viewpoint & understanding.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus fulfilled the law so that all who believe in Him are saved, BUT there are 2 kinds of inheritance; the first fruits and they that be Christ's at His coming as the King of kings; akin to the elder son to the prodigal son; akin to Jacob to Esau.

That is why there are vessels unto honor in His House, vessels of gold & silver that looked to Him to depart from all iniquity and be willing to go when the Bridegroom had come.

That is why at the rapture event, not every saint will be ready as they are left behind to die but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven to await their resurrection and thus their inheritance as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, to serve the King of kings on earth.

So those who get left behind are the refuse.... gone to Gehenna on earth, but still His as He will finish His work even in those saints and former believers left behind. These be called the least in the kingdom of heaven per Matthew 5:19 because Jesus had saved them thus having fulfilled the law in Matthew 5:18. May God cause the increase for I know I cannot.

Jesus being the firstfruits is about Jesus being the first with an immortal body.

 

[God's Truth]

Maybe both of you should first try to find out what it is I’m talking about before both of you try to build a “straw man arguement” in order to tear down your own straw man.

And last I checked, Heaven and earth has not yet passed away.

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

You misunderstand Jesus.
Just because I don't agree with you it doesn't mean I don't understand what you said.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

I saw that and explained to you that Jesus came to fulfill EVERYTHING.

Not all prophecy in the law and prophets have been fulfilled. Those things concerning Jesus’ first coming have been. But again, that is not the point of the Thread.

So if you say not all is fulfilled then you are saying Jesus didn't accomplish what he came to do and said he did.

This is your straw man, then you ran with it.

You misunderstand that scripture.
Jesus says he came to fulfill everything, but you say no he didn't fulfill everything when he came.

Again, you repeating your own straw man.

So instead of you accepting that truth, you go against it just to make Matthew 5:18 say something it doesn't.

A child could understand it….
Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus is saying that all is going to be fulfilled and that heaven and earth would pass away before one jot of the the written word.

Nope, read it again( posted above)

I explained to you what the truth is and you didn't disprove what I said.

I didn’t respond because you are trying to prop up a straw man argument, which I did not say, and which is off topic.

This thread was about showing types and shadows in the law and prophets. But as usual, you two try to turn everything into an argument.

 

[God's Truth]

Not all prophecy in the law and prophets have been fulfilled. Those things concerning Jesus’ first coming have been. But again, that is not the point of the Thread.

This is your straw man, then you ran with it.

That is not a strawman it is facts.

The point of my replying to your thread was to engage in the discussion about fulfillment being spiritual through Jesus.

Again, you repeating your own straw man.

A child could understand it….
Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Nope, read it again( posted above)

I didn’t respond because you are trying to prop up a straw man argument, which I did not say, and which is off topic.

Is that what you are going to do use the mods to try to stop discussion and the truth and anyone from going against you?

This thread was about showing types and shadows in the law and prophets. But as usual, you two try to turn everything into an argument.

Do you understand that the shadow is of Jesus?

 

[GodB4Us]

Jesus being the firstfruits is about Jesus being the first with an immortal body.

Firstfruits is plural or did you not see that? The rapture when He comes as the Bridegroom is before the great tribulation & thus before His coming as the King of kings at the end of the great tribulation.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The key is to apply the first half of verse 23. If you assign Christ only as the firstfruits, then where is the order of man that shall be resurrected? There would be no order thus no point for saying that when Jesus has already risen before Paul had written that epistle

 

[GodB4Us]

You underlined "Till " and yet Jesus said it will all be fulfilled before that time.

I think you have a half glass empty view of the verse, brother.

Remember that not everything is translated into English well enough, let alone adhering to English grammar, but I do not think that is the case.

I see that verse as applying until as meaning... "before"...

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Before heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, until ALL be fulfilled.

Rewording it below...

For verily I say unto you, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, until ALL be fulfilled before Heaven and earth pass.

Rewording your verse as using both until and mayhap you may see my point.

For verily I say unto you, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, until ALL be fulfilled Until heaven and earth pass,

So that is how I am reading and applying that verse to mean. You may look at "It is finished" as said by Jesus at the cross with a whole new meaning.

@StewardoftheMystery

I had posted this but I was in error because I did not apply verse 18 with verse 19.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So you are partially right but only when you take verse 19 as the event that is to come to pass for when the new heaven and the new earth comes for how the great & the least shall be together finally as one flock under one Shepherd and this was done by what Christ had accomplished as finished at the cross.

So that is what I get for zeroing in on the verse 18 when verse 19 is the event that was to be fulfilled when the heaven and earth shall pass.

 

[God's Truth]

Firstfruits is plural or did you not see that? The rapture when He comes as the Bridegroom is before the great tribulation & thus before His coming as the King of kings at the end of the great tribulation.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The key is to apply the first half of verse 23. If you assign Christ only as the firstfruits, then where is the order of man that shall be resurrected? There would be no order thus no point for saying that when Jesus has already risen before Paul had written that epistle

I'm not sure what you mean. Can you explain that better?

Jesus is the firsfruits is about being the first to have a resurrected immortal body.
When Jesus come again, it will be at the great white throne judgment, which is Jesus in the clouds.
Jesus will bring the spirits of those who have died with him and they will be raised in immortal bodies first, and those alive when he comes will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and all shall meet him in the clouds.

 

[GodB4Us]

I'm not sure what you mean. Can you explain that better?

Better be asking Him to understand me even if I am in the wrong.

Jesus is the firsfruits is about being the first to have a resurrected immortal body.

But Jesus is not the only firstfruits mentioned in the N.T. Again, I point out the plurality of firstfruits <------ the "s" on the end

1 Corinthians 15:But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.....
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

There are other uses for firstfruits as inferring the first Christians of a certain place when the gospel was preached.

Romans 16:5Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry.

This reference below refers to the rapture event when 144,000 virgin men living at the time were redeemed from the earth as in raptured from the earth. These be the ones that makes up Christ's personal choir that follows Him around wherever He goes in Heaven and soon to be on earth for the 1000 year reign of Christ's.

Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

When Jesus come again, it will be at the great white throne judgment, which is Jesus in the clouds.

Revelation 20:1-6 explains that the rest of the dead are not resurrected until later on as sometime after the 1000 year reign of Christ's for when for a small season, Satan is released from the pit to stage a last rebellion and gets defeated for when the Great White Throne Judgment shall actually come.

The entitling of this resurrection as being the first resurrection is merely to explain that this resurrection was to happen "first" before the 1000 year reign ad the last rebelion of Satan at the end before the resurrection of the rest of the dead happens for the Great White Throne Judgment. It is not the only resurrection to have taken place before the Great White Throne Judgment since the rapture happened before the great tribulation.

Revelation 20:1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Jesus will bring the spirits of those who have died with him and they will be raised in immortal bodies first, and those alive when he comes will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and all shall meet him in the clouds.

If you will note in Zechariah 14:1-5, Christ comes back with the "raptured before the great tribulation" saints and sets foot on the Mount of Olives thus landing on earth to do battle with the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem. When you compare that with Revelation 20:1-6, that means Christ defeated the world's armies that was marching against Jerusalem and had placed Satan in the pit for a thousand years BEFORE He resurrected those saints as described as having gone through the great tribulation in Revelation 20:4-6 and so Christ is not meeting those saints that went through the great tribulation in the air. See?

So there is Christ the firstfruit ( s ) and then there are they that be Christ's at His coming. That is the order of men in how they are to be resurrected; the vessels unto honor as Christ's the firstfruits and then they that be Christ's at His coming as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

 

[God's Truth]

Better be asking Him to understand me even if I am in the wrong.

Why would you say this, even if you are wrong?

But Jesus is not the only firstfruits mentioned in the N.T. Again, I point out the plurality of firstfruits <------ the "s" on the end

1 Corinthians 15:But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.....
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Jesus is the firsfruits to receive an immortal body.

I am not sure why you are going against me for saying that.

There are other uses for firstfruits as inferring the first Christians of a certain place when the gospel was preached.

Right but you were talking about the end times were you not?

Romans 16:5Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry.

This reference below refers to the rapture event when 144,000 virgin men living at the time were redeemed from the earth as in raptured from the earth. These be the ones that makes up Christ's personal choir that follows Him around wherever He goes in Heaven and soon to be on earth for the 1000 year reign of Christ's.

Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Those 144,000 have already been redeemed and are in heaven in their spirit form.

Revelation 20:1-6 explains that the rest of the dead are not resurrected until later on as sometime after the 1000 year reign of Christ's for when for a small season, Satan is released from the pit to stage a last rebellion and gets defeated for when the Great White Throne Judgment shall actually come.

The entitling of this resurrection as being the first resurrection is merely to explain that this resurrection was to happen "first" before the 1000 year reign ad the last rebelion of Satan at the end before the resurrection of the rest of the dead happens for the Great White Throne Judgment. It is not the only resurrection to have taken place before the Great White Throne Judgment since the rapture happened before the great tribulation.

I believe the first resurrection is when a person is saved and Jesus places himself in the saved and also places the saved in him and heaven.
The reason that I believe this is the first resurrection is because of what is said in Revelation 20.

See where there are those who reign with Jesus and shall be priests of God and of Christ...

Revelation 20
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

...well all the saved are called priests of God and Christs, and we are seated with Him when we are saved.


1 Corinthians 6:17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

John 6:56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.

Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

Colossians 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.




See, if those who are in the first resurrection are the only ones that don't die in the second death, then the first resurrection must be when we are saved.

I believe the thousand years is going on now and it is not an exact amount of time, just that it signifies a long time.

If you will note in Zechariah 14:1-5, Christ comes back with the "raptured before the great tribulation" saints and sets foot on the Mount of Olives thus landing on earth to do battle with the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem. When you compare that with Revelation 20:1-6, that means Christ defeated the world's armies that was marching against Jerusalem and had placed Satan in the pit for a thousand years BEFORE He resurrected those saints as described as having gone through the great tribulation in Revelation 20:4-6 and so Christ is not meeting those saints that went through the great tribulation in the air. See?

So there is Christ the firstfruit ( s ) and then there are they that be Christ's at His coming. That is the order of men in how they are to be resurrected; the vessels unto honor as Christ's the firstfruits and then they that be Christ's at His coming as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

When Jesus comes again it will be with the clouds, which is the great white throne judgement. All those who died and were in heaven with Jesus, they will be raised first with immortal bodies and those alive at his coming with be changed into an immortal body at the twinkling of the eye, then they all meet Jesus in the clouds and the wrath comes on the earth.

 

[GodB4Us]

Why would you say this, even if you are wrong?

Because I can understand those in error by His grace & by His help and know the scriptures to correct them by whih is the same by His grace & by His help.

Jesus is the firsfruits to receive an immortal body.

I am not sure why you are going against me for saying that.

You implying 1 Corinthians 15th reference as only meaning Jesus when Paul is talking about an order in regards to our resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.....
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Right but you were talking about the end times were you not?

Yes, but as I have shown you thgose scriptures, I did show you the scriptures speaking of the order of resurrection of saints & men.

Those 144,000 have already been redeemed and are in heaven in their spirit form.

We disagree.

Revelation 14:1-5 is testifying to the rapture of what out of that rapture, 144,000 virgin living men were redeemed from the earth that makes up Jesus's personal choir, which is not saying they were the only ones raptured but out of those raptured, who made up His personal choir.

I believe the first resurrection is when a person is saved and Jesus places himself in the saved and also places the saved in him and heaven.

I do not see that in Revelation 20:1-6.

The reason that I believe this is the first resurrection is because of what is said in Revelation 20.

Again, no inference to salvation at the calling of the gospel but having been slain for being believers during the great tribulation.

See where there are those who reign with Jesus and shall be priests of God and of Christ...

Revelation 20
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

...well all the saved are called priests of God and Christs, and we are seated with Him when we are saved.

Reasonable if only assigning to your beliefs and not what the scripture actually says per what that reference is actually talking about

1 Corinthians 6:17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

John 6:56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.

Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

Colossians 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

OSAS but Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else which is if found in unrepentant iniquity or still a former believer, they get left behind to die to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

See, if those who are in the first resurrection are the only ones that don't die in the second death, then the first resurrection must be when we are saved.

The first resurrection is the resurrection that is to happen first before the rest of the dead are resurrected at the great white throne judgment after Satan last defeat after his last rebellion is put down and he is cast into the lake of fire. That means the rapture still takes place before the great tribulation comes.

I believe the thousand years is going on now and it is not an exact amount of time, just that it signifies a long time.

I do not know why you would believe that. Revelation 20:7-15 says a specific time except for how long Satan's last rebellion will be as a small season. But he is to be defeated and the great white throne judgment shall commence.

When Jesus comes again it will be with the clouds, which is the great white throne judgement. All those who died and were in heaven with Jesus, they will be raised first with immortal bodies and those alive at his coming with be changed into an immortal body at the twinkling of the eye, then they all meet Jesus in the clouds and the wrath comes on the earth.

What you have shared is inconsistent with Revelation 20th chapter and so you probably should start another thread and tag me to it in showing how you reached those beliefs. Thanks in advance, hopefully I am still around to reply further, but if not, I am praying that the Lord will show you the truth in His words.

 

[God's Truth]

Because I can understand those in error by His grace & by His help and know the scriptures to correct them by whih is the same by His grace & by His help.

lol
You speak like Joe and Kamala. Lot's of gobbledygook.

You implying 1 Corinthians 15th reference as only meaning Jesus when Paul is talking about an order in regards to our resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.....
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

It is about the resurrection from the dead.
No one but Jesus has had an immortal body resurrection.

Yes, but as I have shown you thgose scriptures, I did show you the scriptures speaking of the order of resurrection of saints & men.

You don't want to admit you are wrong you just want to act like you are right and that I won't notice.

We disagree.

Revelation 14:1-5 is testifying to the rapture of what out of that rapture, 144,000 virgin living men were redeemed from the earth that makes up Jesus's personal choir, which is not saying they were the only ones raptured but out of those raptured, who made up His personal choir.

Read that more carefully. The 144,000 are already redeemned.
You aren't going to be one of the virgins.

I do not see that in Revelation 20:1-6.

You should read it more.

Again, no inference to salvation at the calling of the gospel but having been slain for being believers during the great tribulation.

What?
No one is slain for anything except for the preaching of God's Truth.

Reasonable if only assigning to your beliefs and not what the scripture actually says per what that reference is actually talking about

lol Just because you say so is not a defense.

What you say next is more important to me...

The first resurrection is the resurrection that is to happen first before the rest of the dead are resurrected at the great white throne judgment

You need to explain that better.
You go against me for saying the first resurrection is when one gets saved, but then you say the first resurrection is to happen before the rest of the dead are resurrected.

Give the exact scripture or scriptures that say that.

This is the important part for me.

after Satan last defeat after his last rebellion is put down and he is cast into the lake of fire. That means the rapture still takes place before the great tribulation comes.

Then why are you making the resurrected saved with those who will be on earth when the wrath comes?

I know the scriptures in Revelation are hard to understand, but if anyone wants to convince me of their beliefs in this area they will have to explain beyond any ineptness.

So please, explain to me how many more times Jesus is going to come, AND, when he exactly he does the first and last resurrection.

So according to some, the great white throne judgment is when Jesus comes again. Are you saying there are TWO WHITE THRONE JUDGMENTS? Two different times Jesus is going to come again and raise the dead two different times?

You have to show me that Jesus comes and lives on this earth and then WHAT??? ACCORDING TO YOU---Jesus is living on the earth is the next coming, and THEN GOES BACK UP IN THE SKY IN THE CLOUDS FROM THE EARTH?

I really am so interested in discussing this with a person that believes he has the truth about it.
Be patient and explain your beliefs to me, okay?

I do not know why you would believe that. Revelation 20:7-15 says a specific time except for how long Satan's last rebellion will be as a small season. But he is to be defeated and the great white throne judgment shall commence.

Just stay in the conversation and maybe you can see why I say what I do, and or you can explain it better.

What you have shared is inconsistent with Revelation 20th chapter and so you probably should start another thread and tag me to it in showing how you reached those beliefs. Thanks in advance, hopefully I am still around to reply further, but if not, I am praying that the Lord will show you the truth in His words.

You need to pray for the truth yourself.

 

[GodB4Us]

lol
You speak like Joe and Kamala. Lot's of gobbledygook.

You'd just derailed the discussion, brother.

I disagree with you and by the scriptures too and only God can minister to you now.

 

[God's Truth]

You'd just derailed the discussion, brother.

I disagree with you and by the scriptures too and only God can minister to you now.

Are you African American? Just wondering.