EPHESIANS 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of Glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge....

[Samson2020]

What a wonderful beginning to a verse.

THAT THE GOD OF our Lord Jesus Christ................

I wonder how Paul saw the issue that seems to plague our doctrine about trinity?

 

[Samson2020]

What a wonderful beginning to a verse.

THAT THE GOD OF our Lord Jesus Christ................

I wonder how Paul saw the issue that seems to plague our doctrine about trinity?

NKJV That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ............

NIV i keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ..................

ESV that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ..................

CSB i pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ...............

NASB That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ..............

NET I pray that the God of our lord Jesus Christ................

RSV That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ..................

ASV That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ.............

YLT That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ.........

DBY That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ..........


How did all these translations get it wrong?????

 

[Daniel L.]

How did all these translations get it wrong?????

It is not wrong, The Man, Jesus Christ has a God, His Father. Jesus quoted Psalm 22 on the Cross.

Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

-This is Jesus speaking:

Psalm 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

The Word was God, but when the Word became flesh, Jesus, Father became His God, "from my mother's belly", He said. Because He became a man, the Father became His God.

 

[Samson2020]

It is not wrong, The Man, Jesus Christ has a God, His Father. Jesus quoted Psalm 22 on the Cross.

Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

-This is Jesus speaking:

Psalm 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

The Word was God, but when the Word became flesh, Jesus, Father became His God, "from my mother's belly", He said. Because He became a man, the Father became His God.

I was being facetious!! I am not a trinitarian.

God was always the God of Jesus, but before Jesus was Jesus he was not God. As Jesus was GIVEN life to have within Himself from the Father. John 5:26 Jesus was also GIVEN all power
in heaven and in earth by the Father. Matthew 28:18 One must have possession of something in order to give it to someone else. In both cases the Father gave it to Jesus.
Jesus never was nor ever will be a personality of the only true God. He was just as us, a spirit that was foreordained to be the propitiation for the sin of man, and thus GIVEN the right
to baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire after His death and resurrection. Prior to this God only had that right.

You really should look up the word LOGOS translated as "word" in the Bible. It's true meaning is the divine reason, purpose, plan. Gods word has a purpose and it will always be fulfilled
according to what He sent it to accomplish.
Jesus was the divine purpose of God made flesh in that He BECAME the first ever "spiritually" begotten Son of God. Thus showing us why we exist. To become sons of God spiritually.

In the beginning was the divine reason, and the divine reason was with God, and the divine reason was God. If your ever allowed to see this correctly you'll understand that God has/had
a plan, and that plan was to create sons unto Himself who would glorify Him as they would possess all His characteristics and attributes, Jesus was the first to finish the process.
And that only because that was the order in which God chose prior to the creation of the world.

1 Co 15:22-23 As in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive. But, EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER.......................... Jesus first. After all Christ is a many membered
body composed of men who become spiritually begotten of God, Christ is not Jesus' last name it is a designation given to any one who is a member of the body of Christ.
We must remember that Jesus was born Jesus and became Jesus Christ after His baptism of the spirit at the river Jordan. Jesus was generation 41 from Abraham, Jesus Christ was 42.
Thus the beginning of the creation of God Rev 3:14 "SPIRITUALLY BEGOTTEN SONS" Count them up in the first chapter of Matthew.

 

[GodB4Us]

What a wonderful beginning to a verse.

THAT THE GOD OF our Lord Jesus Christ................

I wonder how Paul saw the issue that seems to plague our doctrine about trinity?

Is not Jesus Lord to the glory of God the Father?

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

And when Jesus Christ is Lord, then Jesus is also God, otherwise when one denies the Son, they are denying the Father at the same time.

1 John 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Is not Jesus seen by men when He was upon the earth? Was not Jesus seen at His resurrection & at His ascension to the Father? Will not Jesus return in like manner to be seen? Yet Paul testified to the king of kings as the invisible God !!!!

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Is not the King of kings testified as presently invisible meaning presently unseen at the moment?

And when Jesus Christ is Lord, then Jesus is also God, otherwise when one denies the Son, they are denying the Father at the same time.

Christ is the rock as rock always refers to deity in scripture in the Old Testament.

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Bibe Gateway references of Rock = God

@th1bill & @Admon Mikha'el & @callisto80 & @emanuel88 & @RebornInChrist & @Christ4Ever & @Lavenderfields & @B-A-C @Sue D. @Brad Huber @only son @DieAmartyr @CareGiver @Chad @Jesus_is_LORD & @AndyX @NetChaplain @ladylovesJesus @Mayflower @God's Truth @GRACE ambassador @Dave M & @joestue

 

[Samson2020]

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him

If it is God that exalted Jesus then why do you insist that Jesus exalted Himself as you say Jesus is God? I say Jesus is a God, but as Jesus said: the only True God was His Father. John 17:3
Jesus Himself never stated that He was anything other than the Son of God. John 10:36

1 Co 15:27 For He(God) hath put all things under His (Jesus') feet. But when He (God) saith all things are put under Him (Jesus), it is manifest that He (God) is excepted, which did
put all things under Him (Jesus).
28- And when all things shall be subdued unto Him (Jesus), then shall the Son (Jesus) also Himself be subject unto Him (God) that put all things under Him (Jesus), that God may be all in all.

Now if God is not subject unto Jesus but rather Jesus is subject unto God then Jesus cannot be God.

 

[Daniel L.]

God was always the God of Jesus

Psalm 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Jesus he was not God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus cannot be God.

Then He cannot be your Saviour.

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.

 

[GodB4Us]

If it is God that exalted Jesus then why do you insist that Jesus exalted Himself as you say Jesus is God? I say Jesus is a God, but as Jesus said: the only True God was His Father. John 17:3
Jesus Himself never stated that He was anything other than the Son of God. John 10:36

1 Co 15:27 For He(God) hath put all things under His (Jesus') feet. But when He (God) saith all things are put under Him (Jesus), it is manifest that He (God) is excepted, which did
put all things under Him (Jesus).
28- And when all things shall be subdued unto Him (Jesus), then shall the Son (Jesus) also Himself be subject unto Him (God) that put all things under Him (Jesus), that God may be all in all.

Now if God is not subject unto Jesus but rather Jesus is subject unto God then Jesus cannot be God.

Jesus was crucified because He had said He is God. They had crucified Him for blasphemy but it was the truth.

Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. 64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy. 66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

Several times from before His trial, the Jews almost stoned Him because He had said He is God.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

He even said this here; but His words here is often overlooked.

John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

[Samson2020]

Jesus was crucified because He had said He is God. They had crucified Him for blasphemy but it was the truth.

Quote that with scripture if you think you can.

I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

Several times from before His trial, the Jews almost stoned Him because He had said He is God.

Again, prove it!

: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

you cannot see that even Jesus is saying he is not God in this quote. Ye believe in God, believe ALSO in me, Gods Son.

 

[Daniel L.]

Quote that with scripture if you think you can.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

[Samson2020]

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

You take that verse completely out of context. You should reread the first 8 verses to understand there are stops, starts are new beginnings within that set of scripture.
1 speaks of God, 2 speaks of John, 3 speaks of us who read the prophecy, 4 speaks of God, 5 speaks of Jesus, 6 and 7 speaks of Jesus, 8 speaks of God and is a re stating of 1.

Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the HOLY GHOST The LORD (God) said to my Lord (Jesus), sit thou on my right hand, til I make thine enemies thy footstool.
So my Lord Jesus Christ is my Saviour. However, my saviour has a God, His and my Father the LORD God whom sent Him (Jesus) to die for all of our sins.

I wish not to make a ministry out of anti trinitarian scripture so believe what you wish and some day just maybe your eyes will be opened to the truth.

 

[Samson2020]

REV 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the laodiceans write; these things saith the Amen, the faithful and true WITNESS, the BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD;

These are the words of Jesus describing Himself as the faithful and true witness, and the beginning of the CREATION OF GOD.

How in the world can Jesus be a creation of God and be God at the same time? How can He be God and be His own faithful and true witness?

After all He did say that if He bore witness of Himself, His witness would not be true. John 5:31
His witness was to the Kingdom of God His Father.

 

[complete]

What a wonderful beginning to a verse.

THAT THE GOD OF our Lord Jesus Christ................

I wonder how Paul saw the issue that seems to plague our doctrine about trinity?

'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings
in heavenly places in Christ:'
(Ephesians 1:3)

Hello @Samson2020,

I do love this glorious title, 'The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ'. It encapsulates the truth of Who God is, and who our Lord Jesus Christ is, in relation to Him. You cannot worship God without acknowledging His relation to His Son. ' ... all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent Him.' (John 5:23)

I would rather not spoil this title by bringing it into a discussion on the Trinity. I believe that the usage which the Holy Spirit makes of all the Divine titles should be left as they are, and not spoiled by adding our own understanding to them. The word Trinity is not a word used by the Holy Spirit, so I would rather not use it.

* Paul said:-

'And all things are of God,
Who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ,
and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto Himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them;
and hath committed unto us
the word of reconciliation.'
(2 Corinthians 5:18-19)

* The Divinity of our Lord is proved by His parentage, as Son of God, it needs no other validation.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[GodB4Us]

Quote that with scripture if you think you can.

Okay. I'll do it again. Maybe I should make it bigger so you can see it & read it better, even though it is still on God to cause the increase.

Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. 64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy. 66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.

Again, prove it!

Again scriptures has been provided. I shall repent the comment and the scriptures that went with it.

Several times from before His trial, the Jews almost stoned Him because He had said He is God.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

you cannot see that even Jesus is saying he is not God in this quote. Ye believe in God, believe ALSO in me, Gods Son.

He wants those who believe in God to also believe in Him in the same way they believe in God because Jesus is God.

If you still cannot see the scripture, then I cannot help you but only pray for you.

 

[Daniel L.]

8 speaks of God

Yes, Jesus is God. Who was speaking to John? To speak to the Churches?

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

-It was Jesus, the Almighty Who spoke to John:

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

-The LORD of Lords.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

So my Lord Jesus Christ is my Saviour.

There is only One Saviour, YHWH

Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

 

[Daniel L.]

These are the words of Jesus

Ok, so Jesus is speaking to John to speak to the Churches. Now, look at what Jesus says:

Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

-Jesus is clearly the First and the Last, Alpha and Omega, The LORD of Lords, the Almighty.

 

[Samson2020]

Ok, so Jesus is speaking to John to speak to the Churches. Now, look at what Jesus says:

Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

-Jesus is clearly the First and the Last, Alpha and Omega, The LORD of Lords, the Almighty.

So in your mind Jesus is God. But as Paul states in Ephesians 1:17 The God of OUR Lord Jesus Christ.............. how do you reconcile the two obviously opposing views of Jesus?

Jesus is God vs Jesus has a God?
Your version vs Pauls version?

 

[Samson2020]

I do love this glorious title, 'The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ'. It encapsulates the truth of Who God is, and who our Lord Jesus Christ is, in relation to Him

And that was my primary goal, to make the reader see that God is the God of ALL including the Son, our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[GodB4Us]

So in your mind Jesus is God. But as Paul states in Ephesians 1:17 The God of OUR Lord Jesus Christ.............. how do you reconcile the two obviously opposing views of Jesus?

Jesus is God vs Jesus has a God?
Your version vs Pauls version?

The Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is God and Jesus being His only begotten Son is why Jesus is God.

 

[Samson2020]

The Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is God and Jesus being His only begotten Son is why Jesus is God.

This I almost accept.
Jesus BECAME a LIFE GIVING Spirit after He was perfected. He was glorified and assumed His role as A God according to the Fathers plan. But He can never be
the ONLY TRUE GOD, that belongs to His Father. Jesus even says so in John 17:3

John 3:3 Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.

As a man, Jesus of Nazareth was the Son of God in the flesh. After Jesus' baptism in Jordan and the descending of the Holy Spirit He (Jesus) was then born the second time just as
the elect are.
Mark 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water , He saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending on Him:

He experienced exactly what we experience only the Spirit was given Him without measure.

My point here is that Jesus was made a man in all things just as we are. Heb 2:17 We see where He is today at the right hand of God and pronounced to be a God by the Father.
The same will be said for all the elect of God in that once their perfection is complete they too will be what Jesus is in that "we see Him as He is for we shall be like Him."
Psalms 82 :6 "Is it not written in your law I have said, ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High."

Spiritually speaking we all started with a spirit from God that was then begotten again into life eternal as God had promised this before the world began. Titus 1:2
We who are the elect will someday put on immortality just like Jesus did.
Jesus was the pattern, He was the LIGHT that shows the way back to the Father but in a way that elevates the original spirit that came out from God to now be an independent
source of Love, perfected to look, act, and perform exactly as their Father, who is the Father of ALL including Jesus Christ.
1 Co 15:28 "...........That God may be ALL in ALL." Said another way That LOVE may be ALL in ALL.