Is it LAWFUL to kill animals?

[GodB4Us]

Genesis 9 does not teach that humans only began to eat the flesh of animals, birds and fish AFTER the flood.
There is no scripture that teaches that prior to the flood humans were only vegetarian.

@Sue D. & @Bob Carabbio @callisto80

Only in this was @Daniel L. was right. Mankind and even the animals were vegetarians.

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Genesis 4:2 And again, she bore his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, and Cain a worker of the ground.
4:3 In the course of time Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground,
4:4 and Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and his offering,

That was for the time when they sought to bring an offering to the Lord. Abel's was a burnt offering which was all burnt and not eaten at all since herbs was for their meat at that time before the flood.

Genesis 4:19 And Lamech took two wives. The name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
4:20 Adah bore Jabal; he was the father of those who dwell in tents and have livestock.

One can have sheep for shearing to get wool for clothing and have other livestock for the milk & to make cheese. I know they can get hides out of livestock, as I do wonder if God had not made the example out of that earlier for them to follow.

Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Plus, they did live in tents also for how that can be made out of hides from animals. The native American Indians certainly made their teepees out of buffalo hides.

Tipi Tepee Teepee

"A tepee (tipi, teepee) is a Plains Indian home. It is made of buffalo hide fastened around very long wooden poles, designed in a cone shape. Tepees were warm in the winter and cool in the summer. Some were quite large. They could hold 30 or 40 people comfortably." ~~~ end of quote

Something to consider per His words.

 

[Daniel L.]

Abel

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

animals don't have a soul

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

-They have the same "Breath" as us. And we have the Breath of Life, which is the "living Soul" from the Father.

@Daniel L. -- so when all these 4-footed brothers and sisters of ours have birthdays do we celebrate with ice team and cake. And when they get pregnant we have baby showers for them and present them with baby clothes?. Just wondering. Cause that's what we do with our human brothers and sisters

If you don't kill them, you can do all those things.

 

[GodB4Us]

The Word endureth forever, there is no division:

Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Baruch 4:1 This is the book of the commandments of God, and the law that endureth for ever: all they that keep it shall come to life; but such as leave it shall die.

-You have to choose whom will ye serve, the Law didn't change, God didn't change, that is for sure.

You have scripture opposing scripture for why you are applying His words in the wrong way.

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

I can only give credit when you apply His words rightly and that mankind and animals were vegetarians before the flood, but they certainly had killed animals before the flood also.

 

[Daniel L.]

So then when animals kill other animals in the wild - we should arrest them and put them on trial for murder !!

First arrest yourself, and put yourself on trial, for murder.

Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

You have scripture opposing scripture for why you are applying His words in the wrong way.

Tell us then, what is the right way of interpreting: "I change not"? Can His Word change? If he said herbs are for food, how can that change?

 

[Sue D.]

@Daniel L. -- if you'd take the rest of God's Word in context and rightly apply it, you'd know.

 

[GodB4Us]

First arrest yourself, and put yourself on trial, for murder.

Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Tell us then, what is the right way of interpreting: "I change not"? Can His Word change? If he said herbs are for food, how can that change?

@Sue D. @Bob Carabbio @Waggles @callisto80

God is the One that changes not per that quote of yours.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

His words can change the conditions in His relations to mankind as the Old Covenant decayeth and waxeth old and is ready to vanish in place of the New Covenant.

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So before the fall of man everything was good whereby herbs was to serve as meat for man & beasts.

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

But after the fall we see how God set the example for how mankind was to clothe themselves that we can see evidence of this to this day.

Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

And God said nothing to rebuke Abel for his burnt offerings to the Lord, but was pleased by Abel's offering.

Genesis 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

Proof that Abel gace burnt offerinsg was by wat Noah did after leaving the ark.

Genesis 8:15 And God spake unto Noah, saying, 16 Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee. 17 Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth. 18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him: 19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark. 20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

But after the global flood, the environment of the world has changed and the greenhouse effect capable to provide herbs as meat has changed as well for why God changed His words for how mankind was to survive to eat the flesh of animal for meat but not to use their blood for meals.

Genesis 9:1And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. 4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Now I am quoting scripture and aligning them as not opposing each other because God does not change but by His words in relating to us, that has changed and can change in relations to the Good News in Jesus Christ whereas before as sinners, we were not His people, but since having believed in jesus Christ, we are the sons of God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

 

[Waggles]

Scripture does not teach that humans were only vegetarian before the Flood.
There is no scriptural prohibition on the eating of animal flesh.
And there are already scriptural references to animal skins, animal sacrifices and the keeping of livestock.
Much speculation and reading into scripture what is not there.

 

[GodB4Us]

Scripture does not teach that humans were only vegetarian before the Flood.
There is no scriptural prohibition on the eating of animal flesh.
And there are already scriptural references to animal skins, animal sacrifices and the keeping of livestock.
Much speculation and reading into scripture what is not there.

@Sue D.

Explain these scripture then.

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

That was to man.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

That was to animals.

Both man & animals, birds, & reptiles were vegetarians before the flood as God provided herbs before tha flood that served as meat to man & living things.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

@Sue D.

Explain these scripture then.

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

That was to man.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

That was to animals.

Both man & animals, birds, & reptiles were vegetarians before the flood as God provided herbs before tha flood that served as meat to man & living things.

How do you account for the FACT that GOD CHANGED HIS MIND in Gen 9:3

Oh in case you're confused, we don't live in the antediluvian period these days.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Besides my cats do not treat me as a sibling, they know that I am their servant.

I've got a Frenchie that agrees with your cats -

 

[callisto80]

Remember we are created to Dominion over every according to Genesis 1:26-30, God bless us all.

 

[callisto80]

According to Genesis 9:3, which says; Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

 

[Waggles]

@Sue D.

Explain these scripture then.

Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

That was to man.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

That was to animals.

Both man & animals, birds, & reptiles were vegetarians before the flood as God provided herbs before tha flood that served as meat to man & living things.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing
that moves on the earth.”
29 And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.
There is no prohibition against eating flesh of animals, birds or fish. Humans were commanded to have dominion [râdâh - to tread down, that is, subjugate] over every living thing.
There is no exception to this rule; no subclause; such as to have dominion, but do not eat nor kill.

And in Genesis 9 this is a reiteration of the dominion verses from Genesis 1 - a renewal of those permissions and commandments.
Why would God permit the killing and eating of animals, birds and fishes for Noah and his family, but not for previous generations??

 

[callisto80]

Glory be to God in the highest, Amen.

 

[GodB4Us]

How do you account for the FACT that GOD CHANGED HIS MIND in Gen 9:3

I believe I was making that case. Did you read my post? Or did you replied to the wrong one?

Oh in case you're confused, we don't live in the antediluvian period these days.

I think you have me confused with @Daniel L. that believes we all should be vegetarians and not kill any animals.

 

[GodB4Us]

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing
that moves on the earth.”
29 And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food.
There is no prohibition against eating flesh of animals, birds or fish. Humans were commanded to have dominion [râdâh - to tread down, that is, subjugate] over every living thing.
There is no exception to this rule; no subclause; such as to have dominion, but do not eat nor kill.

And in Genesis 9 this is a reiteration of the dominion verses from Genesis 1 - a renewal of those permissions and commandments.
Why would God permit the killing and eating of animals, birds and fishes for Noah and his family, but not for previous generations??

After the fall, man was to have dominion over the woman since the woman is to be subjective to her husband and so you cannot apply dominion as if inferring animals can be eaten at that time for you would be applying that to Eve also.

So Genesis 9 is not a reiteration of the dominion verses in Genesis 1 when in Genesis 1 testified plainly that herbs at that time before the flood, had served as meat for man and animals to eat right after your dominion reference.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

If you find it unbelievable, then consider the prophesy when Jesus Christ makes a new heaven and a new earth for how lions will eat hay like an ox.

Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea. 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Since scripture cannot go against scripture, you are not rightly dividing the word of truth regarding Genesis 1:28 when Genesis 1:29-30 reproves your application of His words afterwards plainly enough.

 

[Waggles]

that herbs at that time before the flood, had served as meat for man and animals to eat right after your dominion reference.

So if humans could live on a vegetarian or vegan diet before the flood why would God change his commandment on human diet after the Flood?
There is no new revelation given in Genesis 9 to institute such a radical change for human dietary choices.

 

[GodB4Us]

So if humans could live on a vegetarian or vegan diet before the flood why would God change his commandment on human diet after the Flood?
There is no new revelation given in Genesis 9 to institute such a radical change for human dietary choices.

The global flood catastrophe had changed the environment from which the herbs we had relied on for meat to change dramatically that we needed to get our protein elsewhere.

Note how the sons of God declined in the length of their age after the flood? Is that significant enough to warrant that the change in the environment may have constituted to that change as well?

One could argue that other sons of Adam, not of the lineage of Seth, were destined to live only a 120 years and so it was godly living that promoted that lengthy lives, but Genesis 6:1-3 suggests that when those of the lineage of Seth married outside of Seth's family line, their lives were shortened to a 120 years which is to infer as the same along with the rest of the sons of Adam; hence mankind.

But that does not explain why the sons of Noah did not continue to live long as Noah had done,

Indeed, when we look at fossils today, we see bigger versions of the species in the past while seeing the smaller versions of those species today as living fossils.

Whether it was the environment or God just simply spoke to change the dietary requirement for meat for man after the flood, more likely the latter, we used to be vegetarians before the flood and one day, in the new heaven and the new earth, we shall be vegetarians again when we are able to get our meat from herbs again because God made the new heaven and the new earth where a lion will eat hay like an ox..

 

[Daniel L.]

His words can change

Psalm 119:89 For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Lord, but was pleased by Abel's offering

-The Lord hates hands that shed innocent blood. The Lord delights not in the blood. You have to choose whom will ye serve, because you can't serve both masters.

How do you account for the FACT that GOD CHANGED HIS MIND in Gen 9:3

God cannot change His mind, that is the point. Because God is Perfect, just like His Word cannot change, He cannot change, His mind cannot change. Even if men say he changed..

Dominion

Yes, Adam had dominion over every creature and he wasn't allowed to kill them. You also have dominion over your children and are not allowed to kill them just because of that.

Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you

Are you a moving thing that liveth?

There is no prohibition against eating flesh of animals, birds or fish. Humans were commanded to have dominion

Yes, there is a prohibition. If God says herbs are food, that means animals are not. So, eating animals would be against the will of God. And subdue doesn't mean kill.

 

[Daniel L.]

Since scripture cannot go against scripture, you are not rightly dividing

Since Scripture cannot go against Scripture, and I've shown you there is no division in His Word. You have to choose whom will ye serve. Whether the Father of Adam, which gave the herbs, or whoever it was that gave the animals. Since God cannot change, His Word endureth forever, so it surelly wasn't Him that change His mind, because it is impossible for Him to change. So, choose, whether the Father that hates hands that shed innocent blood, and delights not in the blood, or the other one, who accepts blood offerings, because you can't have both, one has to give. And these two are not the same. They are opposites, Father hates, the other loves. Father rejects, the other accepts. Father gives live herbs, the other gives dead animals.