Millennial logistics

[Admon Mikha'el]

Revelation 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

All of this takes place after the millennial kingdom.

Blessings.

Why do you think believers will die during the millenium? What makes you think that?

 

[Shaolin]

I don't know what "she" needs for an answer.
Never the less, "complete" faith in God is THE answer to anything.

Negative, it is only part of the answer. If you do not walk in obedience to God, then your faith counts for absolutely NOTHING.

 

[Shaolin]

Not sure what "YOU" want.
Is it "YOUR" thinking that the rapture or " being caught up" in the air has already occurred before the 1000 yr. Reign.

If the answer is yes, then since all true Christians are already with Christ, if anyone else dies a Believer after that, then I can only assume they go to be with the Lord!

No, I do not think that, and that has absolutely nothing to do with the answer.

It is not a "yes" or "no" question. It is obvious that you do not know Scripture. And if you do not know Scripture, then you are only regurgitating nonsense that you have heard from others.

 

[Shaolin]

Why do you think believers will die during the millenium? What makes you think that?

Scripture...

Isaiah 65:17-25
17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem to be a joy, and her people to be a gladness.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem and be glad in my people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress.
20 No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit; they shall not plant and another eat; for like the days of a tree shall the days of my people be, and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain or bear children for calamity, for they shall be the offspring of the blessed of the LORD, and their descendants with them.
24 Before they call I will answer; while they are yet speaking I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall graze together; the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent's food. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain," says the LORD.

Now, to be fair, this may only reference the new world after the Millennium, but there is no clear reference point in the context to tell us exactly when these days will be.

 

[Dave M]

Isaiah 65:20
No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.

yea my limited understanding is that both glorified saints and mortal beings will be part of the 1,000 year rule

 

[Shaolin]

Isaiah 65:20
No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.

yea my limited understanding is that both glorified saints and mortal beings will be part of the 1,000 year rule

Yes, both Isaiah and Ezekiel (I believe) speak of the nations that survive the Great Tribulation will be made subject to the Messianic world rule. They will have to bring tribute to Christ in Jerusalem on a yearly basis, and any nation that does not bring tribute, God says He will not allow it to rain on that country...plus many more...

 

[Born Again 2004]

Negative, it is only part of the answer. If you do not walk in obedience to God, then your faith counts for absolutely NOTHING.

OK , so you walk in obedience.
Do you do it perfectly 24 -7?!

 

[Beetow]

When will those who are in Christ and die during the thousand years be raised?

Somebody probably already pointed this out, I don't know, but "in Christ" is limited
to the church age; which began on that special day of Pentecost and will end with
the rapture when the "my church" Jesus spoke of at Matt 16:18 will be complete.

In other words: prior to that day of Pentecost, nobody had ever been Spirit
baptized into Christ's body, and nobody will ever again be Spirit-baptized into his
body after the rapture, ergo; every person saved and rescued from the wrath of
God during the tribulation, and/or during millennial age, will be non Christians, i.e.
not in Christ.
_

 

[Dave M]

every person saved and rescued from the wrath of
God during the tribulation, and/or during millennial age, will be non Christians, i.e.
not in Christ.

any scripture to support this?

reason I ask is the below verse clearly relates to being in Christ and these people came out of the tribulation. It always about Jesus Christ. The book of revelation is part of the NT, and what it says in the NT applies to the book of revelation IMO

Revelation 7:14
I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

thanks

 

[Shaolin]

OK , so you walk in obedience.
Do you do it perfectly 24 -7?!

I walk in obedience and faith. Without faith obedience is nothing, just as without obedience faith is nothing.

And, no, no one walks in perfect obedience - however, no one has to. Perfect obedience (again) is one of those calvinist false doctrines. Please provide a verse that tells you that you must walk in perfect obedience...you can't, because there isn't one. God know what He created, and He know that it is impossible for a human being to not sin. Therefore, God does NOT demand or command perfect obedience from a person who cannot walk in perfect obedience. That is just as logical as saying that God condemns every person who eats because He has commanded us not to eat.

Its just as nonsensical as saying that God created homosexuals to be born that way, and then turns around and condemns homosexuality. Anyone with half a working brain knows that God does not create people to be homosexual, but that is the nonsense false doctrine that has crept into the church today and people are leaving the church in droves over the last 10 years because of that nonsense.

I John tells you what God expects from His people, and no where do we read that God demands "perfect" obedience "24/7."

 

[Shaolin]

Somebody probably already pointed this out, I don't know, but "in Christ" is limited
to the church age; which began on that special day of Pentecost and will end with
the rapture when the "my church" Jesus spoke of at Matt 16:18 will be complete.

In other words: prior to that day of Pentecost, nobody had ever been Spirit
baptized into Christ's body, and nobody will ever again be Spirit-baptized into his
body after the rapture, ergo; every person saved and rescued from the wrath of
God during the tribulation, and/or during millennial age, will be non Christians, i.e.
not in Christ.
_

A little misnomer here..."spirit baptized" means strictly baptism in the Spirit - and contrary to false teachings today, that is NOT how people are born into the kingdom of God. We are born into the kingdom when the Spirit enters a person, not when (and IF) they receive the baptism in the Spirit. They are two entirely different things.

Also, the 11 remaining apostles were born again BEFORE the day of Pentecost...

John 20:19-22
19 On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you."
20 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
21 Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you."
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

This took place about 40 days before Pentecost.

As for the misunderstanding regarding those who will be saved during the Great Tribulation, which occurs AFTER the rapture...

Revelation 7:9-17
9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
10 and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"
11 And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
12 saying, "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen."
13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, "Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?"
14 I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any scorching heat.
17 For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of living water, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

To ratify these tribulation saints, here is what takes place before the church is taken out in the rapture, just before the Great Tribulation starts (the days quickly coming upon us today):

Revelation 6:9-11
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.
10 They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Since those murdered during the Great Tribulation are called their "fellow servants and their brother" - ie, their "brothers in Christ," what you claim above is demonstrated to be in error.

Blessings.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I walk in obedience and faith. Without faith obedience is nothing, just as without obedience faith is nothing.

And, no, no one walks in perfect obedience - however, no one has to. Perfect obedience (again) is one of those calvinist false doctrines. Please provide a verse that tells you that you must walk in perfect obedience...you can't, because there isn't one. God know what He created, and He know that it is impossible for a human being to not sin. Therefore, God does NOT demand or command perfect obedience from a person who cannot walk in perfect obedience. That is just as logical as saying that God condemns every person who eats because He has commanded us not to eat.

Its just as nonsensical as saying that God created homosexuals to be born that way, and then turns around and condemns homosexuality. Anyone with half a working brain knows that God does not create people to be homosexual, but that is the nonsense false doctrine that has crept into the church today and people are leaving the church in droves over the last 10 years because of that nonsense.

I John tells you what God expects from His people, and no where do we read that God demands "perfect" obedience "24/7."

Never said or even remotely insinuated that one can walk in perfect obedience...I simply ask you if you did !

It is Jesus that is capable to "walk in perfect obedience "!
If you are a "TRUE Christian " Christ lives inside you...

God looks inside you and sees Jesus and sees His Righteousness, Holiness and Perfection Obdience; not yours (those are not perfect and as filthy rags to Him.

That may be Calvanistic to you, but sorry, it is still true!!!!!

 

[Beetow]

They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

That will be true of all the saved, even aboriginals with a bone in their nose who
never once heard tell of a Bible, a Jesus, or his crucifixion; all the way from Adam
to the wrap depicted at Rev 20:11-15 because all the saved are included in Gen
12;3, which says:

"All peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

And Isa 53:6, which says:

"We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and
The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all."

And John 1:29 which says:

"Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"
_

 

[Beetow]

A little misnomer here..."spirit baptized" means strictly baptism in the Spirit - and
contrary to false teachings today, that is NOT how people are born into the
kingdom of God. We are born into the kingdom when the Spirit enters a person, not
when (and IF) they receive the baptism in the Spirit. They are two entirely different
things.

All the saved, from first to last, will be born of the Spirit in accordance with John
3:3-8 because no one, neither the Old Testament's luminaries nor aborted babies,
will be allowed in the kingdom sans the Spirit birth. It's not optional; it's
mandatory: no exceptions.
_

 

[Born Again 2004]

Negative, it is only part of the answer. If you do not walk in obedience to God, then your faith counts for absolutely NOTHING.

That is true but my point is no one can "walk in obedience " perfectly and neither can you which, is the reason for the indwelling of Jesus.

God is perfect and demands perfection and if Jesus is in you, He sees Jesus's perfection and none of your inadequacies...that is the essence of being "Born Again"!

Forget me , do you argue that?

 

[Shaolin]

That will be true of all the saved, even aboriginals with a bone in their nose who
never once heard tell of a Bible, a Jesus, or his crucifixion; all the way from Adam
to the wrap depicted at Rev 20:11-15 because all the saved are included in Gen
12;3, which says:

"All peoples on earth will be blessed through you."

And Isa 53:6, which says:

"We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and
The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all."

And John 1:29 which says:

"Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"
_

So you espouse universalism...and demonstrate that you don't have a clue as to how to read and interpret Scripture.

 

[Shaolin]

All the saved, from first to last, will be born of the Spirit in accordance with John
3:3-8 because no one, neither the Old Testament's luminaries nor aborted babies,
will be allowed in the kingdom sans the Spirit birth. It's not optional; it's
mandatory: no exceptions.
_

Apparently you missed the key point there...baptism in the Spirit is not the same thing as the indwelling Spirit, which all saved believers have dwelling within them. Not everyone is baptized with the Spirit. That, mathematically, is 1+1=2...do you understand that logic?

A vast majority of saved individuals, who have the indwelling Spirit within them, have never received the baptism in the Spirit.

 

[Shaolin]

That is true but my point is no one can "walk in obedience " perfectly and neither can you which, is the reason for the indwelling of Jesus.

God is perfect and demands perfection and if Jesus is in you, He sees Jesus's perfection and none of your inadequacies...that is the essence of being "Born Again"!

Forget me , do you argue that?

First of all...I will forget you, no problem there.
Secondly, you still don't understand Scripture. I will repeat it for clarity: No where in Scripture does the Bible say that God demands perfection from anyone. The only place where "perfect" comes into view, is perfect love (helping others in need). Perfection is NEVER addressed in terms of sin or obedience.

Now, again...if you think you have a Scripture text that backs up what you claim, then by all means present it. The fact that you have not, yet, is telling...

 

[Born Again 2004]

That is true but my point is no one can "walk in obedience " perfectly and neither can you which, is the reason for the indwelling of Jesus.

God is perfect and demands perfection and if Jesus is in you, He sees Jesus's perfection and none of your inadequacies...that is the essence of being "Born Again"!

Forget me , do you argue that?

Well...do you?

 

[Shaolin]

Well...do you?

You do understand...right...that in your last post, you are speaking to yourself?