And when You Die Your 1st Stop Ain't Heaven I don't care what you Believe, or What they told You. you are going to the grave

[Waggles]

I don't really care what you call it: Soul, Nephesh or Psyche, I believe in what 1 Thessalonians 5:23 says!

What has 1Thessalonians 5:23 to do with what you posted earlier about our souls immediately going to either God in Heaven or to Hell (which is what exactly?)
23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1: we are to be blameless at the return of Jesus for his church - nothing here about death and afterwards.
2: note the distinction between body, soul and spirit. It is difficult to pin down exactly what "soul" is just by reading scripture - the descriptions and usage does vary.

 

[B-A-C]

Eccl 12:7; then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

1Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
1Cor 15:43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1Cor 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1Cor 15:45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1Cor 15:46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

Matt 22:37; And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Mark 12:30; AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'
Luke 10:27; And he answered, "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

Several verses differentiate the heart, mind, and soul.
A few verses differentiate between the spirit and the mind.

1Cor 14:14; For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
1Cor 14:15; What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

John 6:39; "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
John 6:40; "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:44; "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

 

[Waggles]

So on the last day - are our souls raised up? or our bodies raised up?
And what about bodies in the grave or the sea? - often the molecules of a body are scattered, such as when people are cremated and their ashes scattered in the sea or around the rose bush.
What about the victims of Hiroshima who were vapourised? - what bodies are left to raise up on the last day?
Those who drown in sinking ships, etc and become fish food? What is left to raise up on the last day?

How does God keep tabs on billions of deceased souls or bodies or lives?
I believe we have a strong clue here in Revelation 20:
13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Hades > G86 ᾅδης hadēs
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell. - [compare with Sheol H7585 - From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.

 

[Born Again 2004]

What has 1Thessalonians 5:23 to do with what you posted earlier about our souls immediately going to either God in Heaven or to Hell (which is what exactly?)
23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1: we are to be blameless at the return of Jesus for his church - nothing here about death and afterwards.
2: note the distinction between body, soul and spirit. It is difficult to pin down exactly what "soul" is just by reading scripture - the descriptions and usage does vary.

If you don't understand what "remaining
blameless until the end " means, then what more can I say than what the Bible does already.

May God bless what you do understand and keep you" blameless " until your end here on earth!

After that, I think we both can understand or agree, what ever does happen, is in God's hands!

Psalm 100: 4-5

 

[PloughBoy]

So on the last day - are our souls raised up? or our bodies raised up?
And what about bodies in the grave or the sea? - often the molecules of a body are scattered, such as when people are cremated and their ashes scattered in the sea or around the rose bush.
What about the victims of Hiroshima who were vapourised? - what bodies are left to raise up on the last day?
Those who drown in sinking ships, etc and become fish food? What is left to raise up on the last day?

How does God keep tabs on billions of deceased souls or bodies or lives?
I believe we have a strong clue here in Revelation 20:
13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Hades > G86 ᾅδης hadēs
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell. - [compare with Sheol H7585 - From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.

1st. may I say: "Resurrection DAY" is not called "The Last DAY" non is the "LAST DAY" referred to as "The 1st. Resurrection".

It is, so important that a student of The Bible, be familiar with "Biblical Terminology" that we may be as 1 in communicating "Biblical Truths".

2nd. Concerning raised "Mortal Bodies" on "Resurrection DAY", Dead Bodies don't "Rise", not on that Day!, Dead Bodies returns to dust and on the "Last DAy, " The Very dust, will Dissipate and be no more, and forever more, it will be no more.

3. A True Statement, either you understand it or you can't, You can't, because you have Not, the "Ability" to do so. For it have not been given.

The Resurrection Body
"You fool! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. And what you sow is not the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or something else. But GOD gives it a body as He has designed, and to each kind of seed He gives its own body"

If a man plants a "Peach" Seed, in a ground that Peach seed does not appear. But a mere grain. appears. SO, our New Birth in Christ is "Nothing but a Seed" Planted in the Body. Being "cultivated" here on earth, Being "watered" ,"Fed", sometimes milk and sometimes meat and pruning.

The mortal bodies are not coming out of that grave, from dust it came from dust it will return, and the dust also with be no more.

Again:
"But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?” You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. But Godgives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of mankind, another flesh of animals, another flesh of birds, and another of fish. There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory."

Why do most christian, miss the easy stuff, that the Bible makes Plain! The above text of scripture is plain.

Just been revealed to me, because, they who have led them, have told them lies, and the lies, have led them astray.
"for a little leaven have leaven the whole " bunch"!

The A lot of people who lead GOD's people, voices are louder than the voice that is "written" in His Word' The people who lead's His people are colorful and dainty. and they love it that way.
(Jeremiah 5:31)
Geneva Bible of 1587
The Prophets prophesie lies, and ye Priests receiue giftes in their handes, and my people delite therein. What will ye then doe in the ende thereof?

Contemporary English Version
Prophets give their messages in the name of a false god, my priests don't want to serve me, and you--my own people--like it this way! But on the day of disaster, where will you turn for help?

 

[Butch5]

What about the thieve on the cross?

Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

The rich man and Lazarus?

The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

I think it was Paul that said, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord?

Regardless it shouldn't be a point of division and fighting for we all are family in Christ and our way home, sooner or later as long as we get home is what counts.

Hi Anthony,

These passages are often misunderstood. The passage about the thief is easily explained by moving the comma from before the word today to after it. Verily I say to you today, you shall be with me in Paradise. Simply moving the comma over remedies the problem. There is no comma in the original language. It shows that the thief will be in Paradise with the Lord, but not that day. The Rich man and Lazarus is a parable. It's actually telling of the judgment that was coming upon Israel in 70 AD. In the final statement, Paul didn't say to be absent from the body "is" to be present with the Lord. He was expressing a desire to be absent from the body "and" present with the Lord. Also, the "body" in this passage is the church, not Paul's flesh. Additionally, the words absent and present refer to being away from or with one's people. So, absent from the body, means away from his people. Who were Paul's people? The church, Christians. Also, all of this that he said in the chapter is in the context of the Resurrection. Earlier in the chapter Paul states that he doesn't want to be without a body. That was a Greek concept. The Greeks believed that man was a spirit who would ascend into the heavens and to the ultimate god upon death. Paul is actually arguing against this idea.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,
3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.
4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. (2 Cor. 5:1-4 NKJ)

Notice here that Paul is talking about being clothed with the habitation from Heaven as opposed to being found naked. He equates the Greek idea of the spirit leaving the body with being naked. He doesn't what to be found this way. Rather, he wants his present body, state, to be overclothed. He wants the Heavenly to be put on over the earthly. He further clarifies with the statement, "that mortality might be swallowed up by life". In other words he wants immortality put on over his mortality. So, he's actually arguing against the very understanding that many Christians claim of this passage

 

[Butch5]

The soul is not immortal. This is so clear in Scripture. The word soul is used two ways in Scripture. Concretely it's a living being. Abstractly it's life. In either sense it is tied to a being. Gen 2:7 tells us that the man and the breath of life became a living soul. So, a man is a soul.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Gen. 2:7 KJV)

It says man became a living soul. Let's look at how the translators of the New King James translate it.

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. (Gen. 2:7 NKJ)

Man became a living being. Those translators understand that a soul is a being.

Animals are souls.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. (Gen. 1:24 KJV)

The word creature is the word soul. We see here that cattle are souls, creeping things are souls, beasts of the earth are souls. What do all of these have in common? They are all living beings.

Can living beings die? Can souls die? The answer is clearly yes.

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. (Ezek. 18:4 KJV)

Here we have it straight from God, the soul that sins shall die. Jesus' soul died.

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.(Isa. 53:11-54:1 KJV)

Jesus poured out His soul to death.

However, we know beyond any doubt that the soul is not immortal because Paul said that the Father alone has immortality.

14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. (1 Tim. 6:14-16 KJV)

So Paul says the only one who has immortality is the one whom no man has seen nor can see. It doesn't really get much clearer than that.

 

[JerryfromMass]

Hi Anthony,

These passages are often misunderstood. The passage about the thief is easily explained by moving the comma from before the word today to after it. Verily I say to you today, you shall be with me in Paradise. Simply moving the comma over remedies the problem. There is no comma in the original language. It shows that the thief will be in Paradise with the Lord, but not that day. The Rich man and Lazarus is a parable. It's actually telling of the judgment that was coming upon Israel in 70 AD. In the final statement, Paul didn't say to be absent from the body "is" to be present with the Lord. He was expressing a desire to be absent from the body "and" present with the Lord. Also, the "body" in this passage is the church, not Paul's flesh. Additionally, the words absent and present refer to being away from or with one's people. So, absent from the body, means away from his people. Who were Paul's people? The church, Christians. Also, all of this that he said in the chapter is in the context of the Resurrection. Earlier in the chapter Paul states that he doesn't want to be without a body. That was a Greek concept. The Greeks believed that man was a spirit who would ascend into the heavens and to the ultimate god upon death. Paul is actually arguing against this idea.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,
3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.
4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. (2 Cor. 5:1-4 NKJ)

Notice here that Paul is talking about being clothed with the habitation from Heaven as opposed to being found naked. He equates the Greek idea of the spirit leaving the body with being naked. He doesn't what to be found this way. Rather, he wants his present body, state, to be overclothed. He wants the Heavenly to be put on over the earthly. He further clarifies with the statement, "that mortality might be swallowed up by life". In other words he wants immortality put on over his mortality. So, he's actually arguing against the very understanding that many Christians claim of this passage

You get to put the comma where you please? Hmm. Seems like a personal choice.

σώματός (sōmatos) body. The same Greek word is used to describe a human physical body and the body of Christ. Yet here you go again calling it the church. Personal interpretation.

The rich man and Lazarus a parable? Not true. In no parable does Jesus use any of the personal names of characters of those parables. Here is Lazarus, a real person. Obviously not a parable but Jesus telling the truth of the afterlife.

Speaks of the judgment of Israel in 70 AD? Where do you get such a notion? What is your denomination?

 

[Butch5]

You get to put the comma where you please? Hmm. Seems like a personal choice.

σώματός (sōmatos) body. The same Greek word is used to describe a human physical body and the body of Christ. Yet here you go again calling it the church. Personal interpretation.

The rich man and Lazarus a parable? Not true. In no parable does Jesus use any of the personal names of characters of those parables. Here is Lazarus, a real person. Obviously not a parable but Jesus telling the truth of the afterlife.

Speaks of the judgment of Israel in 70 AD? Where do you get such a notion? What is your denomination?

As I said, there is no comma in the original language. The translator put it where he "thinks" it should go. Either position is grammatically correct in Greek. So, the position that fits with Scripture is the correct one. That's the one I posted.

Yes, of course it's the same word. Paul used the same word.

4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. (Rom. 12:4-5 KJV)

For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. (1 Cor. 10:17 KJV)

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor. 12:12-13 KJV)

And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. (1 Cor. 12:19-20 KJV)

And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (Eph. 2:16 KJV)

5 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. (Col. 3:15 KJV)

Yeah, Paul uses the metaphor of a body for the Church quite a few times. Also, as I said, he argues that he doesn't want to leave his flesh body previously. And, again, the context of the passage is the Resurrection.

Yes Jesus does use personal names in a parable. He does it in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man. If we understand the parable it's pretty clear that it's about the events of 70 AD.

 

[Born Again 2004]

You get to put the comma where you please? Hmm. Seems like a personal choice.

σώματός (sōmatos) body. The same Greek word is used to describe a human physical body and the body of Christ. Yet here you go again calling it the church. Personal interpretation.

The rich man and Lazarus a parable? Not true. In no parable does Jesus use any of the personal names of characters of those parables. Here is Lazarus, a real person. Obviously not a parable but Jesus telling the truth of the afterlife.

Speaks of the judgment of Israel in 70 AD? Where do you get such a notion? What is your denomination?

Hmmm?

 

[JerryfromMass]

As I said, there is no comma in the original language. The translator put it where he "thinks" it should go. Either position is grammatically correct in Greek. So, the position that fits with Scripture is the correct one. That's the one I posted.

Yes, of course it's the same word. Paul used the same word.

4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. (Rom. 12:4-5 KJV)

For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. (1 Cor. 10:17 KJV)

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor. 12:12-13 KJV)

And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. (1 Cor. 12:19-20 KJV)

And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (Eph. 2:16 KJV)

5 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. (Col. 3:15 KJV)

Yeah, Paul uses the metaphor of a body for the Church quite a few times. Also, as I said, he argues that he doesn't want to leave his flesh body previously. And, again, the context of the passage is the Resurrection.

Yes Jesus does use personal names in a parable. He does it in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man. If we understand the parable it's pretty clear that it's about the events of 70 AD.

Yes, Lazarus and the rich man is a true story told by God in the flesh, not a parable, and has nothong tondo with 70 AD. Your interpretation is not of the Holy Spirit. Seems more Jehovah's Witness or SDA or similar cult-like interpretation.

Yes, Paul used the same word to describe the physical human body many times, as he does in 2 Corinthians 5:8, as did other apostles, and he used the same word as well in describing the body of Christ:

σώματός (sōmatos) — 36 Occurrences​

Matthew 6:22 N-GNS​

GRK: λύχνος τοῦ σώματός ἐστιν ὁ​

NAS: is the lamp of the body; so then​

KJV: The light of the body is the eye:​

INT: lamp of the body is the​

​

Matthew 26:12 N-GNS​

GRK: ἐπὶ τοῦ σώματός μου πρὸς​

NAS: perfume on My body, she did​

KJV: on my body, she did [it] for​

INT: on the body of me for​

​

Luke 11:34 N-GNS​

GRK: λύχνος τοῦ σώματός ἐστιν ὁ​

NAS: is the lamp of your body; when​

KJV: The light of the body is the eye:​

INT: lamp of your body is the​

​

John 2:21 N-GNS​

GRK: ναοῦ τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ​

NAS: of the temple of His body.​

KJV: the temple of his body.​

INT: temple of the body of him​

​

Romans 7:4 N-GNS​

GRK: διὰ τοῦ σώματος τοῦ χριστοῦ​

NAS: through the body of Christ,​

KJV: to the law by the body of Christ; that​

INT: by the body of Christ​

​

Romans 7:24 N-GNS​

GRK: ἐκ τοῦ σώματος τοῦ θανάτου​

NAS: will set me free from the body of this​

KJV: me from the body of this death?​

INT: out of the body of death​

​

Romans 8:13 N-GNS​

GRK: πράξεις τοῦ σώματος θανατοῦτε ζήσεσθε​

NAS: the deeds of the body, you will live.​

KJV: the deeds of the body, ye shall live.​

INT: deeds of the body you put to death you will live​

​

Romans 8:23 N-GNS​

GRK: ἀπολύτρωσιν τοῦ σώματος ἡμῶν​

NAS: the redemption of our body.​

KJV: [to wit], the redemption of our body.​

INT: redemption of the body of us​

​

1 Corinthians 6:18 N-GNS​

GRK: ἐκτὸς τοῦ σώματός ἐστιν ὁ​

NAS: is outside the body, but the immoral​

KJV: without the body; but​

INT: outside the body is he who​

​

1 Corinthians 7:4 N-GNS​

GRK: τοῦ ἰδίου σώματος οὐκ ἐξουσιάζει​

NAS: her own body, but the husband​

KJV: of her own body, but​

INT: the own body not has authority over​

​

1 Corinthians 7:4 N-GNS​

GRK: τοῦ ἰδίου σώματος οὐκ ἐξουσιάζει​

NAS: his own body, but the wife​

KJV: power of his own body, but the wife.​

INT: of the own body not has authority over​

​

1 Corinthians 10:16 N-GNS​

GRK: κοινωνία τοῦ σώματος τοῦ χριστοῦ​

NAS: a sharing in the body of Christ?​

KJV: the communion of the body of Christ?​

INT: fellowship of the body of Christ​

​

1 Corinthians 11:27 N-GNS​

GRK: ἔσται τοῦ σώματος καὶ τοῦ​

NAS: shall be guilty of the body and the blood​

KJV: shall be guilty of the body and blood​

INT: will be of the body and of the​

​

1 Corinthians 12:12 N-GNS​

GRK: μέλη τοῦ σώματος πολλὰ ὄντα​

NAS: the members of the body, though they are many,​

KJV: of that one body, being​

INT: members of the body many being​

​

1 Corinthians 12:15 N-GNS​

GRK: ἐκ τοῦ σώματος οὐ παρὰ​

NAS: I am not [a part] of the body, it is not for this​

KJV: not of the body; is it therefore​

INT: of the body not on account of​

​

1 Corinthians 12:15 N-GNS​

GRK: ἐκ τοῦ σώματος​

NAS: any the less [a part] of the body.​

KJV: not of the body?​

INT: of the body​

​

1 Corinthians 12:16 N-GNS​

GRK: ἐκ τοῦ σώματος οὐ παρὰ​

NAS: I am not [a part] of the body, it is not for this​

KJV: not of the body; is it therefore​

INT: of the body not on account of​

​

1 Corinthians 12:16 N-GNS​

GRK: ἐκ τοῦ σώματος​

NAS: any the less [a part] of the body.​

KJV: not of the body?​

INT: of the body​

​

1 Corinthians 12:22 N-GNS​

GRK: μέλη τοῦ σώματος ἀσθενέστερα ὑπάρχειν​

NAS: that the members of the body which seem​

KJV: those members of the body, which seem​

INT: members of the body weaker to be​

​

1 Corinthians 12:23 N-GNS​

GRK: εἶναι τοῦ σώματος τούτοις τιμὴν​

NAS: and those [members] of the body which​

KJV: those [members] of the body, which we think​

INT: to be of the body these honor​

​

2 Corinthians 5:8 N-GNS​

GRK: ἐκ τοῦ σώματος καὶ ἐνδημῆσαι​

NAS: to be absent from the body and to be at home​

KJV: from the body, and​

INT: out of the body and to be at home​

​

2 Corinthians 5:10 N-GNS​

GRK: διὰ τοῦ σώματος πρὸς ἃ​

NAS: may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according​

KJV: the things [done] in [his] body, according​

INT: in the body according to what​

​

2 Corinthians 10:10 N-GNS​

GRK: παρουσία τοῦ σώματος ἀσθενὴς καὶ​

NAS: and strong, but his personal presence​

KJV: but [his] bodily presence​

INT: [the] presence of the body weak and​

​

2 Corinthians 12:2 N-GNS​

GRK: ἐκτὸς τοῦ σώματος οὐκ οἶδα​

NAS: or out of the body I do not know,​

KJV: out of the body, I cannot​

INT: out of the body not I know​

​

2 Corinthians 12:3 N-GNS​

GRK: χωρὶς τοῦ σώματος οὐκ οἶδα​

NAS: apart from the body I do not know,​

KJV: or out of the body, I cannot tell:​

INT: out of the body not I know​

​

Ephesians 4:12 N-GNS​

GRK: οἰκοδομὴν τοῦ σώματος τοῦ χριστοῦ​

NAS: to the building up of the body of Christ;​

KJV: the edifying of the body of Christ:​

INT: building up of the body of Christ​

​

Ephesians 4:16 N-GNS​

GRK: αὔξησιν τοῦ σώματος ποιεῖται εἰς​

NAS: the growth of the body for the building​

KJV: increase of the body unto​

INT: increase of the body makes for itself to​

​

Ephesians 5:23 N-GNS​

GRK: σωτὴρ τοῦ σώματος​

NAS: [being] the Savior of the body.​

KJV: is the saviour of the body.​

INT: Savior of the body​

​

Ephesians 5:30 N-GNS​

GRK: ἐσμὲν τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ ἐκ​

NAS: because we are members of His body.​

KJV: members of his body, of his​

INT: we are of the body of him of​

​

Colossians 1:18 N-GNS​

GRK: κεφαλὴ τοῦ σώματος τῆς ἐκκλησίας​

NAS: head of the body, the church;​

KJV: the head of the body, the church:​

INT: head of the body the church​

​

Colossians 1:24 N-GNS​

GRK: ὑπὲρ τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ ὅ​

NAS: on behalf of His body, which​

KJV: for his body's sake, which is​

INT: for the body of him which​

​

Colossians 2:11 N-GNS​

GRK: ἀπεκδύσει τοῦ σώματος τῆς σαρκός​

NAS: in the removal of the body of the flesh​

KJV: putting off the body of the sins​

INT: putting off of the body of the flesh​

​

Colossians 2:23 N-GNS​

GRK: καὶ ἀφειδίᾳ σώματος οὐκ ἐν​

NAS: and severe treatment of the body, [but are] of no​

KJV: and neglecting of the body; not in​

INT: and unsparing treatment of [the] body not in​

​

Hebrews 10:10 N-GNS​

GRK: προσφορᾶς τοῦ σώματος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ​

NAS: the offering of the body of Jesus​

KJV: the offering of the body of Jesus​

INT: offering of the body of Jesus Christ​

​

 

[Butch5]

Yes, Lazarus and the rich man is a true story told by God in the flesh, not a parable, and has nothong tondo with 70 AD. Your interpretation is not of the Holy Spirit. Seems more Jehovah's Witness or SDA or similar cult-like interpretation.

Yes, Paul used the same word to describe the physical human body many times, as he does in 2 Corinthians 5:8, as did other apostles, and he used the same word as well in describing the body of Christ:

σώματός (sōmatos) — 36 Occurrences​

​

Matthew 6:22 N-GNS​

​

GRK: λύχνος τοῦ σώματός ἐστιν ὁ​

​

NAS: is the lamp of the body; so then​

​

KJV: The light of the body is the eye:​

​

INT: lamp of the body is the​

​

​

​

Matthew 26:12 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ἐπὶ τοῦ σώματός μου πρὸς​

​

NAS: perfume on My body, she did​

​

KJV: on my body, she did [it] for​

​

INT: on the body of me for​

​

​

​

Luke 11:34 N-GNS​

​

GRK: λύχνος τοῦ σώματός ἐστιν ὁ​

​

NAS: is the lamp of your body; when​

​

KJV: The light of the body is the eye:​

​

INT: lamp of your body is the​

​

​

​

John 2:21 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ναοῦ τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ​

​

NAS: of the temple of His body.​

​

KJV: the temple of his body.​

​

INT: temple of the body of him​

​

​

​

Romans 7:4 N-GNS​

​

GRK: διὰ τοῦ σώματος τοῦ χριστοῦ​

​

NAS: through the body of Christ,​

​

KJV: to the law by the body of Christ; that​

​

INT: by the body of Christ​

​

​

​

Romans 7:24 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ἐκ τοῦ σώματος τοῦ θανάτου​

​

NAS: will set me free from the body of this​

​

KJV: me from the body of this death?​

​

INT: out of the body of death​

​

​

​

Romans 8:13 N-GNS​

​

GRK: πράξεις τοῦ σώματος θανατοῦτε ζήσεσθε​

​

NAS: the deeds of the body, you will live.​

​

KJV: the deeds of the body, ye shall live.​

​

INT: deeds of the body you put to death you will live​

​

​

​

Romans 8:23 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ἀπολύτρωσιν τοῦ σώματος ἡμῶν​

​

NAS: the redemption of our body.​

​

KJV: [to wit], the redemption of our body.​

​

INT: redemption of the body of us​

​

​

​

1 Corinthians 6:18 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ἐκτὸς τοῦ σώματός ἐστιν ὁ​

​

NAS: is outside the body, but the immoral​

​

KJV: without the body; but​

​

INT: outside the body is he who​

​

​

​

1 Corinthians 7:4 N-GNS​

​

GRK: τοῦ ἰδίου σώματος οὐκ ἐξουσιάζει​

​

NAS: her own body, but the husband​

​

KJV: of her own body, but​

​

INT: the own body not has authority over​

​

​

​

1 Corinthians 7:4 N-GNS​

​

GRK: τοῦ ἰδίου σώματος οὐκ ἐξουσιάζει​

​

NAS: his own body, but the wife​

​

KJV: power of his own body, but the wife.​

​

INT: of the own body not has authority over​

​

​

​

1 Corinthians 10:16 N-GNS​

​

GRK: κοινωνία τοῦ σώματος τοῦ χριστοῦ​

​

NAS: a sharing in the body of Christ?​

​

KJV: the communion of the body of Christ?​

​

INT: fellowship of the body of Christ​

​

​

​

1 Corinthians 11:27 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ἔσται τοῦ σώματος καὶ τοῦ​

​

NAS: shall be guilty of the body and the blood​

​

KJV: shall be guilty of the body and blood​

​

INT: will be of the body and of the​

​

​

​

1 Corinthians 12:12 N-GNS​

​

GRK: μέλη τοῦ σώματος πολλὰ ὄντα​

​

NAS: the members of the body, though they are many,​

​

KJV: of that one body, being​

​

INT: members of the body many being​

​

​

​

1 Corinthians 12:15 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ἐκ τοῦ σώματος οὐ παρὰ​

​

NAS: I am not [a part] of the body, it is not for this​

​

KJV: not of the body; is it therefore​

​

INT: of the body not on account of​

​

​

​

1 Corinthians 12:15 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ἐκ τοῦ σώματος​

​

NAS: any the less [a part] of the body.​

​

KJV: not of the body?​

​

INT: of the body​

​

​

​

1 Corinthians 12:16 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ἐκ τοῦ σώματος οὐ παρὰ​

​

NAS: I am not [a part] of the body, it is not for this​

​

KJV: not of the body; is it therefore​

​

INT: of the body not on account of​

​

​

​

1 Corinthians 12:16 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ἐκ τοῦ σώματος​

​

NAS: any the less [a part] of the body.​

​

KJV: not of the body?​

​

INT: of the body​

​

​

​

1 Corinthians 12:22 N-GNS​

​

GRK: μέλη τοῦ σώματος ἀσθενέστερα ὑπάρχειν​

​

NAS: that the members of the body which seem​

​

KJV: those members of the body, which seem​

​

INT: members of the body weaker to be​

​

​

​

1 Corinthians 12:23 N-GNS​

​

GRK: εἶναι τοῦ σώματος τούτοις τιμὴν​

​

NAS: and those [members] of the body which​

​

KJV: those [members] of the body, which we think​

​

INT: to be of the body these honor​

​

​

​

2 Corinthians 5:8 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ἐκ τοῦ σώματος καὶ ἐνδημῆσαι​

​

NAS: to be absent from the body and to be at home​

​

KJV: from the body, and​

​

INT: out of the body and to be at home​

​

​

​

2 Corinthians 5:10 N-GNS​

​

GRK: διὰ τοῦ σώματος πρὸς ἃ​

​

NAS: may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according​

​

KJV: the things [done] in [his] body, according​

​

INT: in the body according to what​

​

​

​

2 Corinthians 10:10 N-GNS​

​

GRK: παρουσία τοῦ σώματος ἀσθενὴς καὶ​

​

NAS: and strong, but his personal presence​

​

KJV: but [his] bodily presence​

​

INT: [the] presence of the body weak and​

​

​

​

2 Corinthians 12:2 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ἐκτὸς τοῦ σώματος οὐκ οἶδα​

​

NAS: or out of the body I do not know,​

​

KJV: out of the body, I cannot​

​

INT: out of the body not I know​

​

​

​

2 Corinthians 12:3 N-GNS​

​

GRK: χωρὶς τοῦ σώματος οὐκ οἶδα​

​

NAS: apart from the body I do not know,​

​

KJV: or out of the body, I cannot tell:​

​

INT: out of the body not I know​

​

​

​

Ephesians 4:12 N-GNS​

​

GRK: οἰκοδομὴν τοῦ σώματος τοῦ χριστοῦ​

​

NAS: to the building up of the body of Christ;​

​

KJV: the edifying of the body of Christ:​

​

INT: building up of the body of Christ​

​

​

​

Ephesians 4:16 N-GNS​

​

GRK: αὔξησιν τοῦ σώματος ποιεῖται εἰς​

​

NAS: the growth of the body for the building​

​

KJV: increase of the body unto​

​

INT: increase of the body makes for itself to​

​

​

​

Ephesians 5:23 N-GNS​

​

GRK: σωτὴρ τοῦ σώματος​

​

NAS: [being] the Savior of the body.​

​

KJV: is the saviour of the body.​

​

INT: Savior of the body​

​

​

​

Ephesians 5:30 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ἐσμὲν τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ ἐκ​

​

NAS: because we are members of His body.​

​

KJV: members of his body, of his​

​

INT: we are of the body of him of​

​

​

​

Colossians 1:18 N-GNS​

​

GRK: κεφαλὴ τοῦ σώματος τῆς ἐκκλησίας​

​

NAS: head of the body, the church;​

​

KJV: the head of the body, the church:​

​

INT: head of the body the church​

​

​

​

Colossians 1:24 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ὑπὲρ τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ ὅ​

​

NAS: on behalf of His body, which​

​

KJV: for his body's sake, which is​

​

INT: for the body of him which​

​

​

​

Colossians 2:11 N-GNS​

​

GRK: ἀπεκδύσει τοῦ σώματος τῆς σαρκός​

​

NAS: in the removal of the body of the flesh​

​

KJV: putting off the body of the sins​

​

INT: putting off of the body of the flesh​

​

​

​

Colossians 2:23 N-GNS​

​

GRK: καὶ ἀφειδίᾳ σώματος οὐκ ἐν​

​

NAS: and severe treatment of the body, [but are] of no​

​

KJV: and neglecting of the body; not in​

​

INT: and unsparing treatment of [the] body not in​

​

​

​

Hebrews 10:10 N-GNS​

​

GRK: προσφορᾶς τοῦ σώματος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ​

​

NAS: the offering of the body of Jesus​

​

KJV: the offering of the body of Jesus​

​

INT: offering of the body of Jesus Christ​

​

​

The only problem is that it starts just like the parable before it.

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: (Lk. 16:19 KJV)

And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods. (Lk. 16:1 KJV)

And the one before that.

And he said, A certain man had two sons (Lk. 15:11 KJV)

Besides the similarities, Mathew tells us that Jesus only spoke to them in parables.

34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world. (Matt. 13:34-35 KJV)

Yeah, Paul used the body as a metaphor. Not sure what your point is. Surely you're not arguing that Jesus' flesh body was made up of Paul's readers, right?

 

[PloughBoy]

And why did Jesus Speak in Parables?

 

[Butch5]

And why did Jesus Speak in Parables?

That seeing they might see and not understand

 

[Born Again 2004]

And why did Jesus Speak in Parables?

Tell us!

 

[Matthew ten Verseight]

None of those verses says Jesus will take us to heaven.

Consider these words please:

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Joh_17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

In other words, when Jesus returns in the second coming, the great first resurrection occurs, and those alive still are "caught up together" "in the clouds" to "meet the Lord (Jesus) in "the air", and "God" (the Father) will "bring with" Jesus all those persons back to Heaven (3rd), where Jesus came from. He had already taken some to Heaven in His resurrection and ascension:

Psa_68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Persons like Moses, Enoch and Elijah were already in Heaven (3rd), long before that.

Jesus had promised the thief on the cross next to Him, that he (the thief) would be "with" Jesus in "paradise" (3rd Heaven) after the first great resurrection at Jesus second coming.

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luk_23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

 

[Butch5]

Consider these words please:

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Joh 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

Joh_17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

In other words, when Jesus returns in the second coming, the great first resurrection occurs, and those alive still are "caught up together" "in the clouds" to "meet the Lord (Jesus) in "the air", and "God" (the Father) will "bring with" Jesus all those persons back to Heaven (3rd), where Jesus came from. He had already taken some to Heaven in His resurrection and ascension:

Psa_68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

Persons like Moses, Enoch and Elijah were already in Heaven (3rd), long before that.

Jesus had promised the thief on the cross next to Him, that he (the thief) would be "with" Jesus in "paradise" (3rd Heaven) after the first great resurrection at Jesus second coming.

Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luk_23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Hi Matthew,

You may want to reconsider your understanding of thewe passages. John wrote his gospel many years after Jesus had ascended into Heaven and he said that no one had ascended to Jeaven except Jesus.

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13 KJV)

Given John's statement none of those in the passages you quoted went to Heaven.

 

[Matthew ten Verseight]

Hi Matthew,

You may want to reconsider your understanding of thewe passages. John wrote his gospel many years after Jesus had ascended into Heaven and he said that no one had ascended to Jeaven except Jesus.

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13 KJV)

Given John's statement none of those in the passages you quoted went to Heaven.

Consider the context of the verse cited please. Jesus did not say in John 3 that no one entered Heaven. He is speaking to Nicodemus, about being born again from Heaven, and about the doctrine/practice of Heaven itself. The context of the verse shows that Jesus is speaking about that no one went up to Heaven to obtain the doctrine and return, but instead it took an act of God, to descend from Heaven to bring with Him the doctrines/practices of Heaven. In other words, it took the condescension of God to uplift fallen mankind, and elevate them.

Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

You see, the Son of Man (Jesus) came down from Heaven at the behest of the Father, and by His own will in 'Amening' the Father, and brought with Him the ways of Heaven, of which carnal and earthly man could never have known on their own, for their hearts always tended downward, never upward. The earthly and carnal man could not even conceive of Heavenly things, unless Christ Jesus came down to tell them of it.

Enoch, Moses and Elijah all were in Heaven (3rd) already, as scripture declares.

 

[Butch5]

Consider the context of the verse cited please. Jesus did not say in John 3 that no one entered Heaven. He is speaking to Nicodemus, about being born again from Heaven, and about the doctrine/practice of Heaven itself. The context of the verse shows that Jesus is speaking about that no one went up to Heaven to obtain the doctrine and return, but instead it took an act of God, to descend from Heaven to bring with Him the doctrines/practices of Heaven. In other words, it took the condescension of God to uplift fallen mankind, and elevate them.

Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

You see, the Son of Man (Jesus) came down from Heaven at the behest of the Father, and by His own will in 'Amening' the Father, and brought with Him the ways of Heaven, of which carnal and earthly man could never have known on their own, for their hearts always tended downward, never upward. The earthly and carnal man could not even conceive of Heavenly things, unless Christ Jesus came down to tell them of it.

Enoch, Moses and Elijah all were in Heaven (3rd) already, as scripture declares.

You've got a lot of speculation there. However, John's statement is clear. No man has ascended to Heaven. Also, none of the passages you quoted say anyone went to Heaven. You're drawing an inference. There is no passage of Scripture
that says people go to Heaven, because they don't.

This one of the most amazing things in Christianity. The majority of Christians believe they're going to Heaven yet there isn't a single passage of Scripture that says that.

 

[PloughBoy]

Consider the context of the verse cited please. Jesus did not say in John 3 that no one entered Heaven. He is speaking to Nicodemus, about being born again from Heaven, and about the doctrine/practice of Heaven itself. The context of the verse shows that Jesus is speaking about that no one went up to Heaven to obtain the doctrine and return, but instead it took an act of God, to descend from Heaven to bring with Him the doctrines/practices of Heaven. In other words, it took the condescension of God to uplift fallen mankind, and elevate them.

Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

You see, the Son of Man (Jesus) came down from Heaven at the behest of the Father, and by His own will in 'Amening' the Father, and brought with Him the ways of Heaven, of which carnal and earthly man could never have known on their own, for their hearts always tended downward, never upward. The earthly and carnal man could not even conceive of Heavenly things, unless Christ Jesus came down to tell them of it.

Enoch, Moses and Elijah all were in Heaven (3rd) already, as scripture declares.

oh so, Enoch, Moses and Elijah all were in Heaven before Jesus was born, from the womb of Mary, before HE died on the Cross, and before HE rose from the Grave, Then He ascended into heaven and sat down on The Throne. then that means "Mary's Baby" arrived in 4th place into Heaven. The other 3 got there before HE DID. Something don't smell right.

I think Butch5 got it right! Everybody is sleep and waiting on The Trumpet sound. Sleeping in the Buxom of Abraham. Drinking Milk!

( 1 Th. 4)BSB
"By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.…"