And when You Die Your 1st Stop Ain't Heaven I don't care what you Believe, or What they told You. you are going to the grave

[Born Again 2004]

None of those verses says Jesus will take us to heaven.

The dead in Christ rise first...where do they rise to?

 

[rstrats]

"To be absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord"

Where did you get that quote? I know it's not a quote from scripture.

 

[Downunder]

If we have a soul, where did it originate ?

I believe our soul is God given - we become a living soul when we are born and God gives his spirit within us (also applies apparently to animals)
is a soul our consciousness? our own spirit?
to be honest I am not 100% sure as scripture uses the word "soul" in different applications.

 

[Downunder]

The dead in Christ rise first...where do they rise to?

the scriptures in the NT teach you about this. Feel free to read them.

 

[Waggles]

"To be absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord"

Are you quoting scripture or blogging your own philosophy??
Are you paraphrasing scripture to come up with a new doctrine?

and even if your sentence is true the question is - what does that actually mean?
To be present with the Lord bodily or consciously is unscriptural.

 

[rstrats]

The soul is eternal...

I'm not aware of any scripture which says that the soul is eternal. What do you have in mind?

 

[JerryfromMass]

I'm not aware of any scripture which says that the soul is eternal. What do you have in mind?

Who are the ones John sees under the altar in heaven in Revelation 6:9?

 

[Born Again 2004]

I believe our soul is God given - we become a living soul when we are born and God gives his spirit within us (also applies apparently to animals)
is a soul our consciousness? our own spirit?
to be honest I am not 100% sure as scripture uses the word "soul" in different applications.

1. Hmmm?..So, our soul comes from God, doesn't it make sense, that it goes back to God ?

2. So, God gives His Spirit to animals? And that is apparent, where?

 

[Downunder]

1. Hmmm?..So, our soul comes from God, doesn't it make sense, that it goes back to God ?
2. So, God gives His Spirit to animals? And that is apparent, where?

Look up the meaning/definition of soul in Strong's, etc and it applies to both animals and humans
H5315 - nephesh - From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; > a living being that breathes

The scriptures teach us that God gives his spirit into creatures and they live because of the presence of his spirit - implication is that God's spirit sustains all of creation by the power and presence of his spirit
scripture teaches us that when a man or an animal dies the spirit of God returns to him, but this is not described as the soul.

Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
1Thess 5:23 And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Waggles]

This understanding of New Testament teaching was defined orthodoxy as early as A.D. 180 in Against Heresies by Bishop Irenaeus of Lyons, an authority and saint for Catholic and Orthodox Christians:
“. . . It is manifest that the souls of his disciples also, upon whose account the Lord underwent these things, shall go away into the invisible place allotted to them by God, and there remain until the resurrection, awaiting that event;
then receiving their bodies, and rising in their entirety, that is bodily, just as the Lord arose” (from book 5, chapter 31).

 

[Waggles]

Acts 2:25 For David says concerning him, “‘I saw the Lord always before me, for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
2:26 therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced; my flesh also will dwell in hope.
2:27 For you [God] will not abandon my soul to Hades, or let your Holy One see corruption.
2:29 “Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
2:34 For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, “‘The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand,
2:35 until I make your enemies your footstool.”’

 

[JerryfromMass]

NO - scripture does not teach that at all: neither in the OT or the NT
1Cor 15:16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised.
15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
15:18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
15:51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

what shall be raised up?? Our souls.

For the dead, our resurrected bodies are raised up. For the living, our living bodies are changed from mortal to immortal and we follow the dead in Christ to the Lord in the air. The resurrection is as much physical as it it is spiritual. God knows who are HIS and where every body lies, and those of who believe in an omnipotent God know that through HIS omnipotence HE will raise all that are HIS us up into glorified bodies and be as Jesus is - in glory. Cults like the one's here on TJ don't believe God's word when HE says "the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed." 1 Corinthians 15:52, and "Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

 

[rstrats]

Who are the ones John sees under the altar in heaven in Revelation 6:9?

I made my comment based on the assumption that you were saying that souls were inherently immortal, i.e., couldn't die. I apparently misunderstood your intent.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I made my comment based on the assumption that you were saying that souls were inherently immortal, i.e., couldn't die. I apparently misunderstood your intent.

I don't think souls are mortal, they either end up in Heaven or Hell for all eternity based on one's belief or non-belief in the finished work of Jesus .

 

[Waggles]

A prayer of David
Psalm 86:12 I will give you thanks, O Lord my God, with all my heart, and glorify your name forever,
86:13 because your loyal love is great toward me, and you will have delivered my life from Sheol below.
(YLT) For Thy kindness is great toward me, And Thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest Sheol.
(JPS) For great is Thy mercy toward me; and Thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest nether-world.

 

[PloughBoy]

Well what quickens the soul, what brings it back to life, then once it comes back to life or awakens, where will it dwell? Once raised from death or sleep. And if "Death" is to be destroyed one day?

what says you.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Well what quickens the soul, what brings it back to life, then once it comes back to life or awakens, where will it dwell? Once raised from death or sleep. And if "Death" is to be destroyed one day?

what says you.

If the Soul comes from God, it is His to do what HE wishes.

As I see it, it is pretty much basic Gospel: you die your physical death and if you are "Born Again " ,your Soul returns to God in Heaven for all eternity and ,if not "Born Again" , your Soul does not return to God but Hell for all eternity.

 

[Waggles]

If the Soul comes from God, it is His to do what HE wishes.
As I see it, it is pretty much basic Gospel: you die your physical death and if you are "Born Again " ,your Soul returns to God in Heaven for all eternity and ,if not "Born Again" , your Soul does not return to God but Hell for all eternity.

Not in scripture - although scripture on review is hazy about all the details of what happens upon death to us - our bodies, our souls, our spirit ...
but essentially the idea that our soul goes immediately to Heaven or Hell bypasses the scriptures that teach us all of judgement before the throne of Jesus for both the church at the first resurrection, and then later
for everybody else after the second resurrection.

 

[PloughBoy]

Not in scripture - although scripture on review is hazy about all the details of what happens upon death to us - our bodies, our souls, our spirit ...
but essentially the idea that our soul goes immediately to Heaven or Hell bypasses the scriptures that teach us all of judgement before the throne of Jesus for both the church at the first resurrection, and then later
for everybody else after the second resurrection.

That 1st seat of judgment, [first resurrection] is label "The Bema Seat".
King James Bible
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad"

I am just using the terminology of what you said; Not referring to those of the 2nd resurrection. The Great White Throne Judgment.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Not in scripture - although scripture on review is hazy about all the details of what happens upon death to us - our bodies, our souls, our spirit ...
but essentially the idea that our soul goes immediately to Heaven or Hell bypasses the scriptures that teach us all of judgement before the throne of Jesus for both the church at the first resurrection, and then later
for everybody else after the second resurrection.

I don't really care what you call it: Soul, Nephesh or Psyche, I believe in what 1 Thessalonians 5:23 says!