Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Handling The Word of God

complete

Loyal
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
3,230
'Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ,
.. and maketh manifest the savour of His knowledge by us in every place.
For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ,
.. in them that are saved,
.... and in them that perish:
...... To the one we are the savour of death unto death;
........ and to the other the savour of life unto life.
And who is sufficient for these things?
.. For we are not as many,
.... which corrupt the word of God:
...... but as of sincerity,
........ but as of God,
.......... in the sight of God speak we in Christ.'
(2 Corinthians 2:14-17)

Hello there,

I have been trying to find verse 17 , for I had read it some time ago and been arrested by the meaning of one of the words, which stayed in my mind: but the content of the verse itself, even the word concerned I had forgotten. Now, today, it came to my mind again, and I found it by looking up 'the word' in the concordance

* The word which I had looked up, the meaning of which had so arrested my attention, was the word, 'corrupt'.

The strong's No. is G2585, and the Greek word so translated is, 'kapeleuo', from kapelos (a huckster); meaning to retail, that is, (by implication) to adulterate (figuratively) It is translated 'corrupt'
It is only used once in Scripture, here in 2 Corinthians 2:17.

* Paul says that, unlike many. he and his fellow-workers did not corrupt (water-down or adulterate) the Word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God, spoke they 'in Christ.' This encapsulates in a nut-shell how the Word of God should be handled doesn't it? Sincerely, 'as of God', 'in the sight of God'. Not watering it down, or adulterating it in any way.

* It is possible to handle the Word of God deceitfully, as we are told in 2 Corinthians 4:2, and also the Word of God can be made ineffectual through tradition (Matthew 7:13): so how necessary it is to keep in mind the words of 2 Corinthians 2:17, and ensure that we keep before our minds the fact that the Word of God, is just that - His Word: and the way we use it is open to His sight.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made. In Him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
John 1:1-5

For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1Corinthians 1:18

To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Corinthians 5:19

And now I commit you to God and to the word of His grace, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all who are sanctified.
I have not coveted anyone’s silver or gold or clothing.
Acts 20:32-33

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, Who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
2Corinthians 4:5-6

Greetings Chris,

I think perhaps you are referring to:

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

2Timothy 3:13

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus: that ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.
Romans 15:4-7

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.
2Timothy 3:16-17


You might find the following interesting, from Barnes Notes on The Bible

For we are not as many - This refers doubtless to the false teachers at Corinth; and to all who mingled human philosophy or tradition with the pure word of truth. Paul's design in the statement in this verse seems to be to affirm that he had such a deep sense of the responsibility of the ministerial office, and of its necessary influence on the eternal destiny of man, that it led him to preach the simple gospel, the pure word of God. He did not dare to dilute it with any human mixture. He did not dare to preach philosophy, or human wisdom. He did not dare to mingle with it the crude conceptions of man. He sought to exhibit the simple truth as it was in Jesus; and so deep was his sense of the responsibility of the office, and so great was his desire on the subject, that he had been enabled to do it. and to triumph always in Christ. So that, although he was conscious that he was in himself unfit for these things, yet by the grace of God he had been able always to exhibit the simple truth, and his labors had been crowned with constant and signal success.
Which corrupt the word of God - Margin, "deal deceitfully with." The word used here (καπηλεύοντες kapēleuontes) occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, and does not occur in the Septuagint. The word is derived from κάπηλος kapēlos, which signifies properly a huckster, or a retailer of wine, a petty chapman; a man who buys up articles for the purpose of selling them again. It also means sometimes a vintner, or an innkeeper. The proper idea is that of a small dealer and especially in wine. Such persons were notorious, as they are now, for diluting their wines with water (compare the Septuagint in Isaiah 1:22) and for compounding wines of other substances than the juice of the grape for purposes of gain. Wine, of all substances in trade, perhaps, affords the greatest facilities for such dishonest tricks; and, accordingly, the dealers in that article have generally been most distinguished for fraudulent practices and corrupt and diluted mixtures. Hence, the word comes to denote to adulterate; to corrupt, etc. It is here applied to those who adulterated or corrupted the pure word of God in any way, and for any purpose. It probably has particular reference to those who did it either by Judaizing opinions, or by the mixtures of a false and deceitful philosophy. The latter mode would be likely to prevail among the subtle and philosophizing Greeks. It is in such ways that the gospel has been usually corrupted:

(1) It is done by attempting to attach a philosophical explanation to the facts of revelation, and making the theory as important as the fact.

(2) by attempting to explain away the offensive points of revelation by the aid of philosophy.

(3) by attempting to make the facts of Scripture accord with the prevalent notions of philosophy, and by applying a mode of interpretation to the Bible which would fritter away its meaning, and make it mean anything or nothing at pleasure. In these, and in various other ways, people have corrupted the Word of God; and of all the evils which Christianity has ever sustained in this world, the worst have been those which it has received from philosophy, and from those teachers who have corrupted the Word of God. The fires of persecution it could meet, and still be pure; the utmost efforts of princes, and monarchs, and of Satan to destroy it, it has outlived, and has shone purely and brightly amidst all these efforts; but, when corrupted by philosophy, and by "science falsely so called," it has been dimmed in its luster, paralyzed in its aims, and shorn of its power, and has ceased to be mighty in pulling down the strong holds of Satan's kingdom. Accordingly, the enemy of God has ceased to excite persecution, and now aims in various ways to corrupt the gospel by the admixture of philosophy, and of human opinions. Tyndale renders this passage, "For we are not as many are which choppe and change with the word of God" - an idea which is important and beautiful - but this is one of the few instances in which he mistook the sense of the original text. In general, the accuracy of his translation and his acquaintance with the true sense of the Greek text are very remarkable.


and from Vincent's Word Studies

Which corrupt (καπηλεύοντες)

Only here in the New Testament. From κάπηλος a huckster or pedler; also a tavernkeeper. The κάπηλοι formed a distinct class among the Greek dealers, distinguished from the ἐυπόροι merchants or wholesale dealers. So Plato: "Is not retailer (καπήλους) the term which is applied to those who sit in the market-place buying and selling, while those who wander from one city to another are called merchants?"
The term included dealers in victuals and all sorts of wares, but was especially applied to retailers of wine, with whom adulteration and short measure were matters of course. Galen speaks of wine-dealers καπηλεύοντες τοὺς οἴνους playing tricks with their wines; mixing the new, harsh wines, so as to make them pass for old. These not only sold their wares in the market, but had καπηλεῖα wine-shops all over the town, where it was not thought respectable to take refreshments. The whole trade was greatly despised. In Thebes no one who had sold in the market within the last ten years was allowed to take part in the government. So Plato, speaking of the evils of luxury and poverty: "What remedy can a city of sense find against this disease? In the first place, they must have as few retail traders as possible" ("Laws," 919. The whole passage is well worth reading). The moral application of the term was familiar in classical Greek. Lucian says: "The philosophers deal out their instructions like hucksters." Plato: "Those who carry about the wares of knowledge, and make the round of the cities, and sell or retail them to any customer who is in want of them, praise them all alike; though I should not wonder if many of them were really ignorant of their effect upon the soul; and their customers equally ignorant, unless he who buys of them happens to be a physician of the soul" ("Protagoras," 313). Paul here uses the term of those who trade in the word of God, adulterating it for the purpose of gain or popularity. Compare 1 Timothy 6:5


Bless you ....><>
 
I submit that handling the Word also includes grabbing it in your mouth and swinging it as the sword it is. Use it to swiftly swack that swine the devil.
 
I submit that handling the Word also includes grabbing it in your mouth and swinging it as the sword it is. Use it to swiftly swack that swine the devil.

Swinging any sword at any living thing requires perfect judgement, as it is an act of severance between a thing and another thing.
 
When did Jesus tell anyone to take up their sword and swing it at their neighbor?
Hmmm You may want to read my post there. Nobody said anything about taking a sword to ones neighbors... and....I was talking about the sword of the Word. But you are just testing me...right? LOL
 
Hmmm You may want to read my post there. Nobody said anything about taking a sword to ones neighbors... and....I was talking about the sword of the Word. But you are just testing me...right? LOL

I am showing you something important.

I would like to share with you what I have learned; the sword of 'The Word' can damage human souls in the most terrifying way when it is treated like a weapon, because it is a sword of Judgement.


It is also the most painful sword there is.


Whenever a sword is taken up for a fight, is it not for destroying?


The edge of a blade is for severance; to cut that which it meets. When you say to take up the sword and swing it, at whom will you swing it? Can you show me the devil that you speak of? Will your blade reach the devil? if you swing your sword, which is your tongue and your words, and your intent, whose ears will receive those things that are in your heart? Is it not man, like myself, and those around you, who will hear you, and receive the intent of your blade in their soul? Which is why I have said to you, can you show me the devil? Swords destroy those things which they meet with; blessings are like rain, and curses are like swords.
 
I am showing you something important.

I would like to share with you what I have learned; the sword of 'The Word' can damage human souls in the most terrifying way when it is treated like a weapon, because it is a sword of Judgement.


It is also the most painful sword there is.


Whenever a sword is taken up for a fight, is it not for destroying?


The edge of a blade is for severance; to cut that which it meets. When you say to take up the sword and swing it, at whom will you swing it? Can you show me the devil that you speak of? Will your blade reach the devil? if you swing your sword, which is your tongue and your words, and your intent, whose ears will receive those things that are in your heart? Is it not man, like myself, and those around you, who will hear you, and receive the intent of your blade in their soul? Which is why I have said to you, can you show me the devil? Swords destroy those things which they meet with; blessings are like rain, and curses are like swords.
Comparing the Word to a sword, or calling the Word a sword is metaphorical...If it severs something its sin. Which we do NOT need. If it destroys, it destroys sin in our lives, which we need to do. When you swing the sword, you are speaking the Word. You are NOT speaking your own words.
If I speak my words..." I have dementia, which is fatal. I am dying."
Or I can speak Gods Word, swing my sword at the enemy the devil..."By Jesus stripes I WAS healed, which means I AM healed. I command my body to line up with my Fathers Word and BE healed." Which one do you think would actually work to my advantage? And used properly, who gets hurt?


2 Timothy 3:15-17 King James Version (KJV)
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures (Word), which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture (Word) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

There is not one mention of hurting people. I would rather believe God than anybody else...wouldn't you?
 
@twcstp111
@Admon Mikha'el

Hello there,

Forgive me for coming in on this, but I can appreciate both sides of this argument. However it is important, I think, to acknowledge whose sword it is, and consider therefore who has the authority and grace to wield it in righteousness and with sensitivity.

It is the sword of the Spirit, He wields it with the advantage of foreknowledge, as One Who knows the secrets of men's hearts. Mankind can and does do damage when they use it as a weapon without either the righteous judgement or sensitivity to wield it with accuracy and with due care.

Ephesians 6:16 is descriptive of the warfare against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places; in Hebrews 4:12 the Sword is used in the hand of the Spirit to expose flesh from spirit in the life of the believer . The gentler action of the word of God is described in Ephesians 5:26, as 'washing'. Otherwise it is used for mutual edification, comfort and joy in the spirit (Ephesians 5:18-20; Colossians 3:16; Hebrews 5:14).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Last edited:
@twcstp111
@Admon Mikha'el

Hello there,

Forgive me for coming in on this, but I can appreciate both sides of this argument. However it is important, I think, to acknowledge whose sword it is, and consider therefore who has the authority and grace to wield it in righteousness and with sensitivity.

It is the sword of the Spirit, He wields it with the advantage of foreknowledge, as One Who knows the secrets of men's hearts. Mankind can and does do damage when they use it as a weapon without either the righteous judgement or sensitivity to wield it with accuracy and with due care.

Ephesians 6:16 is descriptive of the warfare against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places; in Hebrews 4:12 the Sword is used in the hand of the Spirit to expose flesh from spirit in the life of the believer . The gentler action of the word of God is described in Ephesians 5:26, as 'washing'. Otherwise it is used for mutual edification, comfort and joy in the spirit (Ephesians 5:18-20; Colossians 3:16; Hebrews 5:14).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Thanks Chris....I was talking about us using the sword of the Spirit as we are told to do....

Ephesians 6:16-20 King James Version (KJV)
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
 
Sorry wrong reference given - Ephesians 6:11-12.

:rolleyes:
Well! That was confusing! You need a real bible...one that does not cut out the importans stuff...Notice vs 17 I gave more than the usual three verses because it would have been an imcomplete sentence.

Ephesians 6:16-20 King James Version (KJV)
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
 
Thanks Chris....I was talking about us using the sword of the Spirit as we are told to do....

Ephesians 6:16-20 King James Version (KJV)
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
Hi there @Admon Mikha'el,

Yes, the armour of God. However, Admon, is this armour, and the weapons used, offensive or defensive ? Looking at the verses that come prior to this description of this spiritual armour, it says:-

'Finally, my brethren,
be strong in the Lord,
and in the power of His might.
Put on the whole armour of God,
that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
but against principalities,
against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places.'

(Eph 6:10-12)

* We are to STAND, against the wiles of the devil.
* We are to be strong - IN THE LORD.
* And in the power of - HIS MIGHT.
* The armour is Gods, it is He that equips us.
* We WRESTLE NOT against flesh and blood.
* But against - principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world and spiritual wickedness in high places.

Yes, it is a spiritual battle, with spiritual armour, and the only combat position and action, is to STAND and WRESTLE and PRAY . Also, the only part of the body not covered by armour is the back, so no way are we going to turn and run away, yes?

Romans 13:12-14 is informative concerning this battle too, I believe :-

'The night is far spent, the day is at hand:
let us therefore cast off the works of darkness,
and let us put on the armour of light.

Let us walk honestly, as in the day;
not in rioting and drunkenness,
not in chambering and wantonness,
not in strife and envying.
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ,
and make not provision for the flesh,
to fulfil the lusts thereof.'


Interesting!

Also 2 Corinthians chapter 6 , 1 Corinthians 9:26-27 and 1 Timothy 6 give directions about fighting the good fight of faith, and it would seem that the fight is largely an internal, and personal one, the spotlight being on the plank in our own eye, rather than the splinter in another's eye.

I have appreciated being able to consider the nature and form that this battle takes

Thank you.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour/
Chris
 
Well! That was confusing! You need a real bible...one that does not cut out the importans stuff...Notice vs 17 I gave more than the usual three verses because it would have been an imcomplete sentence.

Ephesians 6:16-20 King James Version (KJV)
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
Hello again, @Admon Mikha'el,

I think we have covered that very nicely (even though superficially) between us.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
I think so too.....So ...we DO use our sword of the Spirit as an offensive weapon against the enemy Satan...
Hi @Admon Mikha'el,

I think of the way the Lord Jesus used the word of God when He was being tempted of the devil (Matthew 4; Luke 4 and Mark 1:13), and at the same time I find myself comparing that with Satan's temptation of Eve in the garden of Eden (Genesis 3), and Satan's use of Scripture in both cases, coupled with references in 1 John 2:16 to, '... the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, ... ' , each of which was used by Satan on both occasions. Also of course Eve's failure to correctly use the words of God which left her weak and vulnerable and open to suggestion, and the Lord's correct use of it which led to victory over Satan.

I think too of the need to be experienced in the use of a sword for it to be of any use as a means of defence, and in this relation I think of the words of Hebrews 5:14, 'But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.' How important it is to become acquainted with God's word, and to use it, so that our senses are exercised by it.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Greetings,

sometimes we can stop at 'face value' and render passages from the Bible as isolated and formulate thoughts, myths, traditions and doctrines while forgetting to dig a little and seeing the depth and riches provided to us in Scripture and hence discover what may be a more accurate understanding of how that said passage is to be seen and heard.

One problem we do have is trying to fit the Bible into the English language along with the Western thought patterns and ideologies, which will hinder the person who cares not to discover that which is yet to be revealed to them. That does not mean that any one person is especially lazy or reckless, as we can all swallow that which a physician gives us in faith that it is safe and health rendering.
Teaching appears to be a common thing in this day and age, while we overlook or ignore that teaching is a very serious affair before the Lord and a position that should be accompanied with full appreciation of the consequence of teaching error; this leading to a vast number of voices declaring either the one acceptable tradition or either the multitude of empty and misleading menus for confusion, resulting both in what could be taught and so learned, escaping the masses who would otherwise delight to know that which is laid before them in Scripture; rendered growthless and in effect fruitless and barren in and about the word.

It is a bit like the fishermen who resigned to have nothing in their nets. Or a woman who accepts that her coin is lost.

precept upon precept, line upon line.

Does the passage find itself embedded in the beginning and can we then see the pattern in the tapestry throughout the all? Or do we see it more as a puzzle with missing pieces and content ourselves through our imaginations of what we want the masterpiece to look like?

Do we prefer traditional understanding over rapturous enjoyment of the wisdom of God revealed by His Word?

Get excited about what you haven't yet found - except ye become as little children....

But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto Me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:14


Bless you ....><>
 
Greetings,

sometimes we can stop at 'face value' and render passages from the Bible as isolated and formulate thoughts, myths, traditions and doctrines while forgetting to dig a little and seeing the depth and riches provided to us in Scripture and hence discover what may be a more accurate understanding of how that said passage is to be seen and heard.

One problem we do have is trying to fit the Bible into the English language along with the Western thought patterns and ideologies, which will hinder the person who cares not to discover that which is yet to be revealed to them. That does not mean that any one person is especially lazy or reckless, as we can all swallow that which a physician gives us in faith that it is safe and health rendering.
Teaching appears to be a common thing in this day and age, while we overlook or ignore that teaching is a very serious affair before the Lord and a position that should be accompanied with full appreciation of the consequence of teaching error; this leading to a vast number of voices declaring either the one acceptable tradition or either the multitude of empty and misleading menus for confusion, resulting both in what could be taught and so learned, escaping the masses who would otherwise delight to know that which is laid before them in Scripture; rendered growthless and in effect fruitless and barren in and about the word.

It is a bit like the fishermen who resigned to have nothing in their nets. Or a woman who accepts that her coin is lost.

precept upon precept, line upon line.

Does the passage find itself embedded in the beginning and can we then see the pattern in the tapestry throughout the all? Or do we see it more as a puzzle with missing pieces and content ourselves through our imaginations of what we want the masterpiece to look like?

Do we prefer traditional understanding over rapturous enjoyment of the wisdom of God revealed by His Word?

Get excited about what you haven't yet found - except ye become as little children....

But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto Me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 19:14


Bless you ....><>
Hello @Br Bear,

My grandchildren, knowing that I spend time in Bible study, and that I get excited about what I discover, also think that I must know all there is to know by now, but Oh dear no!! I feel that I have only scratched the surface. There are things that I have a fuller understanding of than others, but even so, I know that even those things that I believe I know and understand have depths yet to be plumbed. There is nothing more exciting than putting on your miners helmet and taking a pick and shovel and prayerfully going down into the depths of God's Word. Yet if the search does not lead to Christ, then it has not achieved it's purpose, for He is the subject of all Scripture, isn't He? All roads must lead to Him.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Back
Top