Free will discussion 452,637

[B-A-C]

Genesis 2:15; Then the Lord God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it.
Genesis 2:16; The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
Genesis 2:17; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

That seems like a pretty cut and dried plain and simple thing to me. "You shall not eat". if you do ... "you will surely die".
I don't think Adam misunderstood. I don't think he didn't know the consequences. I don't think he didn't believe God.

Man today knows what sin is. We "know". Man today knows what the consequences are. Oh sure there are some who deny God and the consequences of sin, but they know what the consequences are.
Now maybe they say they don't believe in God, or the Bible, or heaven and hell. But they know what these things are, even if they don't believe in them.

Even Christians know these things... at least we should. What makes it worse for us, is we say we believe in God and the things he says, but we sin anyway. At least non-believers have an excuse.
We know the Bible, they don't... we know the consequences and we sin anyway.

Adam knew everything you know. You know everything he knew about sin. The wages of sin is death... plain and simple.
So you can blame what Adam did on ignorance if you want to.... but what's your excuse? Every time you time, you're doing the same thing Adam did.

The Bible only mentions the "one sin" that Adam and Eve committed. How many times have you sinned? (Yes, I'm no better, I'm in the same boat with you).

It's easy to say.. "well, I would've never done what Adam did"... really? Every time you sin, you prove that you would have.

 

[Rockerduck]

Hello BAC,
"
Adam knew everything you know. You know everything he knew about sin. The wages of sin is death... plain and simple.
So you can blame what Adam did on ignorance if you want to.... but what's your excuse? Every time you time, you're doing the same thing Adam did."

God created Adam a super being with super intelligence (he named all the animals) and through Adam's fall, disease and death were imputed to us through his seed. This also allowed Satan's power to to permeate this world.

Ephesians 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Adam had a great incite on God's plan for mankind from God Himself. Adam's sin was not a small oops, forgive me, it was massive.

My sin's are forgiven through Jesus Christ, and my burden's and sin are nailed to the cross and gone forever.

 

[PloughBoy]

Freedom of choice!!!
NIV Genesis 2:17 "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for 'when' you eat from it you will certainly die".
I would have thought that if Adam had freedom of choice the scripture would read 'If' you eat from it, rather than 'when' you eat from it, don't you think?

Adam and Eve, did have the "Freedom" to chose "GOD", for they were "perfect" and there was no "Sin in them" sin was no where to be found. This world was not "tainted" not even a speck of a dirt particle Wouldn't harm your eye.

Many Christian do not understand the argument concerning the doctrine relating to the "Freedom of the Will"! And it has become "futile" to explain to them, because seeing those words and the influence of this world's lens. and by looking at a short paragraph that some other Christian who was dull of hearing the unadulterated truth. And took off running screaming I know, I know I know, but only carrying a pocket full "leaven" and thinking it is "the good seed" and the seed sprouted up and produce "shoots" and have given us a lot of Mis- understanding the "biblical concept" of the discussion pertaining to the freedom of a man's will. Not knowing of the argument of the concept is the very element we must understand in our evangelistic efforts, so that many in their endeavor will not feel so discourage and unnecessary suffering upon the necessary suffering we must endure. For many of my earlier of years, I was like many for maybe 10 years because of the Pastors and other Christians was saying, and using patch up scripture to confirm Then God thought it was fitting to move me beyond the teaching and the doctrine of men into the Doctrine of "Sound Doctrine" which the Bible teaches. Comparing what the churches teaches and what the Bible teaches! And I understood the "Bondage of the will" in the fall of Mankind! And I understood the "Freedom of the will" that came also to. Mankind in that very fall, But a different kind of "The Freedom of the Will" that Man had before "his fall"! So now I understood, the arguments, that one side was trying to convey to the other side, how Man lost his will in the Garden of Eden to choose, the things of GOD neither desired to do so, But they fell in love with the wages of unrighteousness, So if a man loves something, His will is to choose something he loves. "Men loves darkness, rather than light"! Even if that darkness will harm him and destroy him!

That is why we are saved by "the Grace of GOD" but we must be Drawn by a "Irresistible grace", "No Man "CAN" come to Christ unless the Father draws [Greek word is "drags"] Him"! A "Irresistible drag"! Who can Resists Gods will! Your will cannot supersede His will. Not in a "million light years"!


Now a Christian most know this truth because that Christian has not lost his corruptible body, But now that Christian has a "Spiritual body" as well, the two are living in the same body! And theses Bodies are warring against one another! The same Flesh it is wanting to feed itself with it's desire's. " Men loves darkness rather than light" you have in you still, the "sweet desires of your lusts". The sweetness of the aroma of your deepest desires. Every little "jot & tittle" and you also have a new nature, that hungers, for a different kind of feeding, and if you do not feed it with right truth, it will become weak and carried about with "every wind and and doctrine" and cannot produce the fruit it should bear, "your personal fruit that belongs to you and no one else, it is the fruits of a child of GOD is suppose to bear, That is "like the Fruits of your Father" that is in Heaven! For all your fruit must come from Him.

American Standard Version (Eph. 4:14).
"that we may be no longer children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error;"


Sorry for the short bar.

 

[Trevor]

Adam and Eve, did have the "Freedom" to chose "GOD", for they were "perfect" and there was no "Sin in them" sin was no where to be found. This world was not "tainted" not even a speck of a dirt particle Wouldn't harm your eye.

 

[PloughBoy]

Genesis 2:15; Then the Lord God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it.
Genesis 2:16; The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
Genesis 2:17; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

That seems like a pretty cut and dried plain and simple thing to me. "You shall not eat". if you do ... "you will surely die".
I don't think Adam misunderstood. I don't think he didn't know the consequences. I don't think he didn't believe God.

Man today knows what sin is. We "know". Man today knows what the consequences are. Oh sure there are some who deny God and the consequences of sin, but they know what the consequences are.
Now maybe they say they don't believe in God, or the Bible, or heaven and hell. But they know what these things are, even if they don't believe in them.

Even Christians know these things... at least we should. What makes it worse for us, is we say we believe in God and the things he says, but we sin anyway. At least non-believers have an excuse.
We know the Bible, they don't... we know the consequences and we sin anyway.

Adam knew everything you know. You know everything he knew about sin. The wages of sin is death... plain and simple.
So you can blame what Adam did on ignorance if you want to.... but what's your excuse? Every time you time, you're doing the same thing Adam did.

The Bible only mentions the "one sin" that Adam and Eve committed. How many times have you sinned? (Yes, I'm no better, I'm in the same boat with you).

It's easy to say.. "well, I would've never done what Adam did"... really? Every time you sin, you prove that you would have.

B-A-C, You said; God said something, and used guotations marks, in other words by your words and quotations , you are without error, by using strong emphasis! And below, is a listing of what you said: Now my question is, did you give your words clear thought before you printed those quotes? If yes, where do you find those findings in the word of God?

Look at your quotes.

Genesis 2:15; Then the Lord God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it.
Genesis 2:16; The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
Genesis 2:17; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

That seems like a pretty cut and dried plain and simple thing to me. "You shall not eat". if you do ... "you will surely die".

"where did you find those quotes and who said those words? These quotes are not listed in Genesis 2:15,16 or 17.

Read your words: Again. And your English syntax.

Genesis 2:15; Then the Lord God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it.
Genesis 2:16; The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
Genesis 2:17; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

That seems like a pretty cut and dried plain and simple thing to me. "You shall not eat". if you do ... "you will surely die".

Where did you find the "if". Did you put the "if" in what God had said, by your own preference.

But I will be kind, I know exactly where you got that, "If" from! You got it from a "Paraphrase" Bible. In which is not not a "Translation" of "The Word Of GOD"! A Paraphrase is not The Word of GOD or A Translation of the Word of GOD!


I speak the Truth! Don't you know, Satan is the "Prince of This World" He is The Ruler of All the Kingdoms of This World" given to Him by "The Father" Satan is not "Sovereign" God is! We are are to Learn! And to instruct. And make "Disciples of Christians" We do not make "Disciples of Sinners", We Do not cast our Pearls before pigs!


New American Standard 1977
“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."! "These are the words of Jesus Christ". Our wisdom is "Hidden from the world"! I will declare it again, and again, The Word of GOD is for The Elect of GOD! And not the people of This world but for "A Peculiar People", Strangers in this World! Only the "non, and nominal Christians" do not understands this or these words that I speak, because they are none of His and they know not the language that we speak! Yes we are "Foreigners" to them! And we are "Few" in numbers "Scattered through out this world" from every tribe and language. As one people in GOD! That this world knows nothing about and we are among their mist. Strangers in a Foreign land, even in our own household! They have no idea what we are.

 

[Trevor]

Adam and Eve, did have the "Freedom" to chose "GOD", for they were "perfect" and there was no "Sin in them" sin was no where to be found. This world was not "tainted" not even a speck of a dirt particle Wouldn't harm your eye.

Sin was nowhere to be found? So there was no serpent in the garden?

 

[B-A-C]

That seems like a pretty cut and dried plain and simple thing to me. "You shall not eat". if you do ... "you will surely die".

Where did you find the "if". Did you put the "if" in what God had said, by your own preference.

I didn't put the "if" in the quotes. It is between two sets of quotes. The quotes were what was in the Bible. What was between the quotes was my commentary.

 

[Trevor]

Hello Trevor,
" That's a bit harsh on Adam and Eve, don't you think Rockerduck?"

Adam and Eve ignored God's command (will) not to eat of the Tree and then fell for the devils trap and rebelled against God's (will)command and suffered the consequence. That can happen to you today, Stay in God's will and don't rebel against it..

Rockerduck, God is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent, so he had to have known, before the creation of the world, that if he put Adam, Eve, the forbidden fruit and the serpent in the garden, what the outcome would be. And so he must have intended the outcome, otherwise he would not be the infallible God we know him to be.

 

[Curtis]

If Adam's Job was to "guard" the garden then what was he supposed to guard it against?

Gen 2:15 And the Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to tend and guard and keep it. (AMP)

 

[Curtis]

Adam was never deceived he knew exactly what he was doing.

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Adam's transgression was by letting the serpent into the garden which God told him to guard! Adam's sin was not in what he did, it is in what he did not do!

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

 

[PloughBoy]

I didn't put the "if" in the quotes. It is between two sets of quotes. The quotes were what was in the Bible. What was between the quotes was my commentary.

Ok, because "GOD" never said: "if you do you shall surely die". He said: "when you". And not "if you".

 

[Curtis]

Joh 12:32 And I, if and when I am lifted up from the earth [on the cross], will draw and attract all men [Gentiles as well as Jews] to Myself. (AMP)

Attracting and drawing ALL men is no guarantee of salvation if men choose to not believe.

 

[PloughBoy]

Sin was nowhere to be found? So there was no serpent in the garden?

Sin and the Serpent is two different things. Sin is sin and a "serpent" is a serpent". Or are you referring to "The Adversary" and " A Adversary is A Adversary" who God made.

 

[Trevor]

Sin and the Serpent is two different things. Sin is sin and a "serpent" is a serpent". Or are you referring to "The Adversary" and " A Adversary is A Adversary" who God made.

Forget it Ploughboy.

 

[Trevor]

Adam's transgression was by letting the serpent into the garden which God told him to guard! Adam's sin was not in what he did, it is in what he did not do!

Hi Curtis, can you show us where it is written that Adam allowed the Serpent into the garden of Eden?

 

[Curtis]

Hi Curtis, can you show us where it is written that Adam allowed the Serpent into the garden of Eden?

To you was the "serpent" a good thing to have in the garden? Who would we say was the serpent?

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Who was Adam to "guard" the garden against?

Who is responsible for not giving "a place" to the devil?

Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

 

[Trevor]

Genesis 2:17; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”
That seems like a pretty cut and dried plain and simple thing to me. "You shall not eat". if you do ... "you will surely die".

Hi B-A-C, 'For in the day that you eat from it you will surely die'. In the NIV it says 'for when you eat of it you will surely die'. How can you translate that into, 'if' you do you will surely die?

 

[Trevor]

To you was the "serpent" a good thing to have in the garden? Who would we say was the serpent?

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Who was Adam to "guard" the garden against?

Who is responsible for not giving "a place" to the devil?

Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

It still doesn't say that he allowed Satan into the garden, to say he let him in is conjecture.

 

[Curtis]

(CEV) except the one that has the power to let you know the difference between right and wrong. If you eat any fruit from that tree, you will die before the day is over!"

(ERV) But you must not eat from the tree that gives knowledge about good and evil. If you eat fruit from that tree, on that day you will certainly die!"

(GNB) except the tree that gives knowledge of what is good and what is bad. You must not eat the fruit of that tree; if you do, you will die the same day."

(NIrV) But you must not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you do, you can be sure that you will die."

(NLT) except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die.”

 

[Curtis]

It still doesn't say that he allowed Satan into the garden, to say he let him in is conjecture.

It takes much more "conjecture" to say Adam did not!