The Invitation.

[B-A-C]

There is a theme in the new testament of Jesus reaching out to people. Calling people. Trying to reach people, and asking His disciples to do the same.

Rev 3:20; 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Jesus is knocking at the door of people's hearts. But it's up to us to open the door. Some people refuse to open the door.

In both Matthew and Luke, Jesus says He is reaching out to the lost in Jerusalem, to cover them, to protect them...

Matt 23:37; "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
Luke 13:34; "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it!

... but they were unwilling, they would not have it. Some people refuse Jesus.

Jesus sends His disciples out to spread the gospel.... He tells them if they accept your message, that's great, but if they don't wipe the dust off your feet and let them be.
Jesus doesn't tell His disciple to beg people to be saved. Just give them the message and move on.

Matt 10:14; "Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.
Mark 6:11; "Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, as you go out from there, shake the dust off the soles of your feet for a testimony against them."
Luke 9:5; "And as for those who do not receive you, as you go out from that city, shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them."
Luke 10:11; 'Even the dust of your city which clings to our feet we wipe off in protest against you; yet be sure of this, that the kingdom of God has come near.'

They actually did this in one case at least.

Acts 13:51 But they shook off the dust of their feet in protest against them and went to Iconium.

Some churches teach a doctrine called "irresistible grace". They believe people cannot say no to God if He offers them salvation. But the Bible teaches just the opposite over and over again.
People can and do resist the Holy Spirit.

Acts 7:51; "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.

The main verse used in "irresistible grace" doctrine is...

John 6:44; "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

But it doesn't say no one "will", it says no one "can". The choice is still up to them. Just because they hear the gospel doesn't mean they will accept it.

Rom 10:14; How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15; How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"
Rom 10:16; However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"
Rom 10:17; So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Rom 10:18; But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."

Some churches preach, well God must not want everyone to be saved, because everyone doesn't hear the gospel. Verse 18 above says the gospel has gone out to all the earth,.. to the end of the world.
So everyone has heard the gospel, why isn't everyone saved? I personally don't know of anyone, not one single person... who has never heard of Jesus. Now many of them aren't Christians even though
they've heard the gospel. Some haven't heard the "real, full, truth" of the gospel, and perhaps that is true, because many of them don't want to.

Even the apostle had hard hearts and unbelief at times.
Mark 16:14; Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen.
Mark 16:15; And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
Mark 16:16; "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
Mark 16:17; "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
Mark 16:18; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Jesus is trying to reach people. The 'Great commission' (really our ONLY commission) is to share the gospel with others. I've done many times in my life.
Some receive it, some reject it. Even some of my very own children reject it. ... but they've heard it, more than once.

Matt 22:2; "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son.
Matt 22:3; "And he sent out his slaves to call those who had been invited to the wedding feast, and they were unwilling to come.
Matt 22:4; "Again he sent out other slaves saying, 'Tell those who have been invited, "Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and my fattened livestock are all butchered and everything is ready; come to the wedding feast."'
Matt 22:5; "But they paid no attention and went their way, one to his own farm, another to his business,
Matt 22:6; and the rest seized his slaves and mistreated them and killed them.
Matt 22:7; "But the king was enraged, and he sent his armies and destroyed those murderers and set their city on fire.
Matt 22:8; "Then he *said to his slaves, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
Matt 22:9; 'Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.'
Matt 22:10; "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.
Matt 22:11; "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
Matt 22:12; and he *said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless.
Matt 22:13; "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Matt 22:14; "For many are called, but few are chosen."

A lot of people were invited to this wedding. Some people believe this is just the Jews... but even if it is, that doesn't affect the point of this story.
Because the people who invited were "unwilling to come". Notice is doesn't say the king wouldn't let them come, it doesn't say the king didn't offer them an invitation. (in fact He did).
It says they were "unwilling" to come. Just like Jerusalem was "unwilling" to accept Jesus. Over and over again in the Bible, Jesus is offering an invitation, He is standing at the door
of people's hearts waiting for them to 'open the door'. But many are unwilling.
In the story of the wedding feast above... one man appeared to be willing, he showed up at the wedding (which is more than the original "invitees" did) but even though he came
to the wedding, he wasn't really dressed for it. Many even today who think they will be attending the wedding aren't really prepared for it.

There is more to say on this... there are more scriptures that support this. But I'm out of time right now.

 

[B-A-C]

1Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Tim 2:5; For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Tim 2:6; who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

It says here that God desire 'ALL' men to be saved. It doesn't say He desire 'some' men, or 'part of' the men to be saved... He desire ALL to be saved.
In verse 6 above, it says Jesus gave Himself up as a ransom for 'ALL'. Not just part of men, not just 'some' men, but ALL, everyone who accepts Him.

2Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Again it says here that God is "not wishing for ANY to perish"... He wants "ALL" to come to repentance. Notice it doesn't say "some", "part of" or "half of".
It says He doesn't want anyone to perish.

.. to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

Matt 19:18 Then he *said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS;
Matt 19:19 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
Matt 19:20 The young man *said to Him, "All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?"
Matt 19:21 Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
Matt 19:22 But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.
Matt 19:23 And Jesus said to His disciples, "Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Again Jesus is offering this man a way. Jesus is giving the invitation here. ... but the cost is too high for this man.
"he went away grieving". Why didn't he go away rejoicing? Because he rejected Jesus's offer. Now some believe perhaps later this man changed his mind... but I notice
in the next verse Jesus says... "it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom".

.. to be continued ...

 

[B-A-C]

Luke 14:26; "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
Luke 14:27; "Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
Luke 14:28; "For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?
Luke 14:29; "Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,
Luke 14:30; saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.'
Luke 14:31; "Or what king, when he sets out to meet another king in battle, will not first sit down and consider whether he is strong enough with ten thousand men to encounter the one coming against him with twenty thousand?
Luke 14:32; "Or else, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace.
Luke 14:33; "So then, none of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions.

It doesn't cost anything to get saved. But being a Christians costs everything. There is a price. Jesus paid the biggest price anyone could pay.. and yet He says...
anyone who wants to follow me... has to carry his "OWN' cross. Jesus doesn't carry that part for us.
Jesus tells them... don't start something you can't finish. Who starts building something without sitting down and figuring out the cost involved.
For some people (like the rich young ruler above) the cost is too high. Jesus says here "calculate the cost" to see if you can complete it before you even start.
Why would Jesus tell us to "count the cost" to follow Him?

... to be continued ...

 

[Samson2020]

But it doesn't say no one "will", it says no one "can". The choice is still up to them. Just because they hear the gospel doesn't mean they will accept it.

Whether you use "will" or "can" it doesn't change the fact that the Father has to call them. There is no "choice" from the individual about the calling of God.

Acts 7:51; "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.

Romans 11:32 "For God hath shut up ALL in disobedience so that he may SHOW MERCY TO ALL."

1Ti 4:9-11 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God who IS
the Savior of ALL men, specially of those that believe. THESE THINGS COMMAND AND TEACH."

Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offense of one (Adam) judgement came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Jesus)
the free gift came upon ALL MEN unto JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE."

Now ask yourself do Romans 11:32 and Romans 5:18 say the same thing? One just explains how and why you were condemned then justified. Or put another
way shut up in disobedience then shown mercy, and all of it was Gods doing/plan.

Lets also ask ourselves about 1Ti 4:9-11 it plainly states that God IS the Savior of ALL men, these things COMMAND AND TEACH, Therefore if he doesn't
save ALL MEN then this set of verses is a lie. We know that this can't be the case so how do we resolve what seems to be a problem? We look at the fact
that God sent his Son Jesus to pay for the sin of the world, ALL OF IT PERIOD. This then means that ALL are saved from sin and the punishment of eternal death
that comes from it as Romans 5:18 states. The only real problem is understanding when God will allow ALL MEN to understand what He has done for them
through the sacrifice of his only begotten Son.
When death has been destroyed is exactly the same time the final person will have been made alive in Christ and Romans 11:32 will have been fulfilled.

1Co 15:22 " As in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive."

All of these verses say the same thing that ALL will be made alive in Christ, ALL are justified unto life because of Jesus' righteousness,
ALL will have mercy shown to them.
And ALL of this is by the design of God.

 

[B-A-C]

1Co 15:22 " As in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive."

But ONLY if they are ... "in Christ".

1 Corinthians 15:22
(AMPC) For just as [because of their union of nature] in Adam all people die, so also [by virtue of their union of nature] shall all in Christ be made alive.
(ASV) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
(CSB) For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
(GNB) For just as all people die because of their union with Adam, in the same way all will be raised to life because of their union with Christ.
(Greek NT TR) ωσπερ γαρ εν τω αδαμ παντες αποθνησκουσιν ουτως και εν τω χριστω παντες ζωοποιηθησονται
(GW) As everyone dies because of Adam, so also everyone will be made alive because of Christ.
(HCSB) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
(ISV) For as in Adam all die, so also in the Messiah will all be made alive.
(KJV) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(KJVA) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(MKJV) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
(MSG) Everybody dies in Adam; everybody comes alive in Christ.
(NAS77) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.
(NASB) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
(NIrV) Because of Adam, all people die. So because of Christ, all will be made alive.
(NIV) For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
(NLT) Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life.
(RV) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

[B-A-C]

As many times as the Pharisees fought with Jesus, one conversation stands out.

John 5:38; "You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.
John 5:39; "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;
John 5:40; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.
John 5:41; "I do not receive glory from men;
John 5:42; but I know you, that you do not have the love of God in yourselves.
John 5:43; "I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, you will receive him.
John 5:44; "How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God?

The Pharisees knew the Bible, but yet they did "not have His word abiding in" them. They were even searching the scriptures looking for something.
Jesus tells them in verse 40... "you are UNWILLING to come to me"... so that you MAY have (eternal) life. (emphasis mine)
Jesus tells them why they won't accept Him. In verse 44 He says, how can you believe ... when all you want is glory from one another, you don't seek the glory of God.

Heb 11:6; And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Some people seek, fame, fortune, love, family, loyalty... whatever... But God rewards those who seek after Him.
Jesus is giving them the invitation, but other things are more important to them, they are UNWILLING to accept Him.

 

[Samson2020]

But ONLY if they are ... "in Christ".

1 Corinthians 15:22
(AMPC) For just as [because of their union of nature] in Adam all people die, so also [by virtue of their union of nature] shall all in Christ be made alive.
(ASV) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
(CSB) For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
(GNB) For just as all people die because of their union with Adam, in the same way all will be raised to life because of their union with Christ.
(Greek NT TR) ωσπερ γαρ εν τω αδαμ παντες αποθνησκουσιν ουτως και εν τω χριστω παντες ζωοποιηθησονται
(GW) As everyone dies because of Adam, so also everyone will be made alive because of Christ.
(HCSB) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
(ISV) For as in Adam all die, so also in the Messiah will all be made alive.
(KJV) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(KJVA) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(MKJV) For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
(MSG) Everybody dies in Adam; everybody comes alive in Christ.
(NAS77) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.
(NASB) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.
(NIrV) Because of Adam, all people die. So because of Christ, all will be made alive.
(NIV) For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
(NLT) Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life.
(RV) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

Yes, the point is that ALL will eventually be in Christ and be made alive, only question is when. Your looking at it still as if it were up to individual choice, but it's not,
thank God, he started it by the condemnation for Adams sin, then rectified it by crucifying Jesus, because it was his choice to put Jesus as the preeminent Son
over everything, this could not happen if there were no fall and need for rectification of sin. In doing so ALL SIN was paid for thus ALL will be made ALIVE in Christ.
And as Jesus was the sacrifice for sin he has the preeminent position forever.

You were born into condemnation, you did not choose it right? This was Gods doing.
So why now do you need to feel self righteous about being justified by the righteousness of Jesus by your own WORK of faith? You did nothing to deserve initial
condemnation and you did nothing to deserve life. It was all the Fathers doing.

 

[B-A-C]

You were born into condemnation, you did not choose it right? This was Gods doing.
So why now do you need to feel self righteous about being justified by the righteousness of Jesus by your own WORK of faith? You did nothing to deserve initial
condemnation and you did nothing to deserve life. It was all the Fathers doing.

I did nothing to deserve the 'initial condemnation' correct. But I do lots of things to deserve it since then.
I did nothing to deserve the 'initial salvation' either. But I do lots of things that cost me now.

 

[Samson2020]

I did nothing to deserve the 'initial condemnation' correct. But I do lots of things to deserve it since then.
I did nothing to deserve the 'initial salvation' either. But I do lots of things that cost me now.

Of course you didn't and do because you were born separated from God and were used as a tool of Satan to bring offence to others. If you were not a sinner
then there would be no need for your salvation and this is by design. You were part of the Mystery of Iniquity that is required of you to experience as both
a sinner and now as one who forgives the sinner.

You might want to expand on the phrase initial salvation. Your either born again or not. There is no starting point to salvation and life then obtaining something
better later. The only thing you can achieve to is overcoming the world and growing up to be just like your older brother Jesus. And you couldn't even begin
that process and understand what and why you were doing it unless you were born again first.

I would be interested in hearing about YOUR COSTS?

 

[B-A-C]

I would be interested in hearing about YOUR COSTS?

Certainly, I'm pretty Arminian in this respect. But that's another thread. For now I would like to stick to Jesus inviting people.

 

[Brother-Paul]

There is a theme in the new testament of Jesus reaching out to people. Calling people. Trying to reach people, and asking His disciples to do the same.

Rev 3:20; 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Jesus is knocking at the door of people's hearts. But it's up to us to open the door. Some people refuse to open the door.

That is so true as we know brother, but so many a frightened of change, concerned about what they cannot see or work out for themselves. The won't open the door because the light shining underneath and in the reveals is to bright, they are used to the darkness. Better the devil you know many say, but they do not know the devil!

It is an interesting door that Jesus knocks on, it only has one handle, it is on the outside, He can only knock, we have to open it.

I have often found in life many doors stand in front of me, I do not know which to open, but I always seem to open all the wrong ones first.

Bless you brother

 

[Brother-Paul]

A lot of people were invited to this wedding. Some people believe this is just the Jews... but even if it is, that doesn't affect the point of this story.
Because the people who invited were "unwilling to come". Notice is doesn't say the king wouldn't let them come, it doesn't say the king didn't offer them an invitation. (in fact He did).
It says they were "unwilling" to come. Just like Jerusalem was "unwilling" to accept Jesus. Over and over again in the Bible, Jesus is offering an invitation, He is standing at the door
of people's hearts waiting for them to 'open the door'. But many are unwilling.
In the story of the wedding feast above... one man appeared to be willing, he showed up at the wedding (which is more than the original "invitees" did) but even though he came
to the wedding, he wasn't really dressed for it. Many even today who think they will be attending the wedding aren't really prepared for it.

There is more to say on this... there are more scriptures that support this. But I'm out of time right now.

It could be the Jews, but the wedding feast I believe is the same one Jesus invites us all to. The wedding Feast of the Lamb, for all saved souls.

What a feast it will be, what a banquet, what a start to our new live with the Lord for eternity.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Whether you use "will" or "can" it doesn't change the fact that the Father has to call them. There is no "choice" from the individual about the calling of God.

Greeting Samson2020,

I do not see this as you do brother.

God calls us, we do not call Him, Jesus stands at the door of our heart and knocks, he does not force His way on us, it is our choice whether we accept God's invitation, it is our choice whether we open the door or not. If we do we are not condemned, if we don't we are condemned already becaue we haven't accepted God's one and only son who died for our sins. John 3:18-21

Your decision appears to me, I could be wrong on how you are thinking brother, but your thought appear to me that God knows who will be saved, it is those whose name is in the Book of Life and the Lamb, so God knew from the beginning. It is true by this he did/does know and has done from the beginning, but he still doesn't want any to perish, the choice is ours.

Shalom

 

[Samson2020]

Greeting Samson2020,

I do not see this as you do brother.

God calls us, we do not call Him, Jesus stands at the door of our heart and knocks, he does not force His way on us, it is our choice whether we accept God's invitation, it is our choice whether we open the door or not. If we do we are not condemned, if we don't we are condemned already becaue we haven't accepted God's one and only son who died for our sins. John 3:18-21

Your decision appears to me, I could be wrong on how you are thinking brother, but your thought appear to me that God knows who will be saved, it is those whose name is in the Book of Life and the Lamb, so God knew from the beginning. It is true by this he did/does know and has done from the beginning, but he still doesn't want any to perish, the choice is ours.

Shalom

So in your opinion God has abdicated his throne in favor of YOUR CHOICE instead of whet he created you to become?

 

[B-A-C]

So in your opinion God has abdicated his throne in favor of YOUR CHOICE instead of whet he created you to become?

It's not my opinion if it's scripture.

Matt 7:13; "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Matt 7:14; "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

But He is on the throne, no matter what I do.

 

[Brother-Paul]

So in your opinion God has abdicated his throne in favor of YOUR CHOICE instead of whet he created you to become?

Psalm 47:8 (NKJV)
God reigns over the nations; God sits on His holy throne.

Psalm 9:7-12 (NKJV)
7 But the LORD shall endure forever; He has prepared His throne for judgment.
8 He shall judge the world in righteousness, And He shall administer judgment for the peoples in uprightness.
9 The LORD also will be a refuge for the oppressed, A refuge in times of trouble.
10 And those who know Your name will put their trust in You; For You, LORD, have not forsaken those who seek You.
11 Sing praises to the LORD, who dwells in Zion! Declare His deeds among the people.
12 When He avenges blood, He remembers them; He does not forget the cry of the humble.

Psalm 146:10 (NKJV)
The LORD shall reign forever-- Your God, O Zion, to all generations. Praise the LORD!

Shalom

 

[Samson2020]

, but he still doesn't want any to perish, the choice is ours.

So God is sovereign but he allows you to choose him?

 

[B-A-C]

So God is sovereign but he allows you to choose him?

That is what makes Him sovereign. A ruler that has to force you to choose them does not truly own all of you.
You could hold a gun to someones head and make them say things or do things. But do they truly believe these things in their heart?
God wants us to "choose Him". He doesn't want to force us. He is still sovereign whether we choose Him or not.
His being God doesn't depend on anything we do.

If God being "God" depends on anything I do.. that gives me power over Him.

 

[Samson2020]

God wants us to "choose Him". He doesn't want to force us.

1 John 4:19 "We love him because he FIRST LOVED US." The age old question of the chicken or the egg, which came first? Without the giving of faith you could
not choose to follow the Lord so it was he who chose you so that you could follow along. And if he chose you and you did not choose him then who's to say how many
he can choose.

Did he force you to participate in sinful acts by the condemnation brought on by Adams error? Yes. Was that for your own good or his? Is the knowledge of good and evil
necessary for your spiritual education and future existence?