If the church is “Raptured” in this generation, what are the people left still, in the “Institutionalized church”, called?

Greetings,

Samson2020 said:
Maybe you just can't stand me. And so whatever I say you find an argument with it.
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should one agree or disagree with that?

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let us ALL remember that we are known by our fruit and with that in mind, may we all be more prayerful about how we use the forums, to the glory of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
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Bless you ....><>
 
Dave M said:
dear brother I have a confession at one time this was true of me, please forgive me,,

the lord is showing me how to humble myself and remove this pride I have.
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Forgiveness is always given. And was really never required as I found no fault with you or any other and hold no grudge for mine own sake against any one.
 
Samson2020 said:
Maybe you just can't stand me. And so whatever I say you find an argument with it.
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Br. Bear said:
Greetings,



should one agree or disagree with that?

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let us ALL remember that we are known by our fruit and with that in mind, may we all be more prayerful about how we use the forums, to the glory of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
===============

Bless you ....><>
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It was just a question. Maybe I should have used a question mark in the punctuation?
 
PloughBoy said:
Brother, go even back further to “circe” deeper in to “circe”.

This is the word used in most English versions as a rendering of the New Testament's Greek word ekklesia. Ekklesia really means "a calling out", a meeting or a gathering. Ekklesia is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew qahal, which means an assembly or a congregation. Neither ekklesia nor qahal means a building. Tyndale, in his translation, uniformly translated ekklesia as "congregation" and only used the word "churches" to translate Acts 19:37 for heathen temples! Whence the word "church", then? Ecclesiastical sources give the origin as kuriakon or kyriakon in Greek. However, to accept this. one has to stretch your imagination in an attempt to see any resemblance. Also, because kuriakon means a building (the house of Kurios=Lord), and not a gathering or meeting of people, as the words ekklesia and qahal imply, therefore this explanation can only be regarded as distorted, even if it is true. Our common dictionaries, however, are honest in revealing to us the true origin. They all trace the word back to its Old English or Anglo-Saxon root, namely circe. And the origin of circe? Any encyclopaedia, or dictionary of mythology, will reveal who Circe was. She was the goddess-daughter of Helios, the Sun-deity! Again, another form of Sun-worship, this time the daughter of the Sun-deity, had become mixed with the Messianic Faith.



Some interesting facts emerge from the study of the word circe. The word is related to "circus", "circle", "circuit", "Circean", "circulate", and the various words starting with "circum-". The Latin pronunciation could have been "sirke" or "sirse". The Old English word circe may have been pronounced similarly to "kirke", or even "sirse".



However, Circe was in fact originally a Greek goddess where her name was written as: Kirke, and pronounced as such—just as in numerous similar cases of words of Greek origin, e.g. cyst and kustis, cycle and kuklos, cylinder and kulindros. The word "church" is known in Scotland as kirk, and in German as Kirche and in Netherlands as kerk. These words show their direct derivation from the Greek Kirke even better than the English "church". However, even the Old English circe for "church", reveals its origin.



Let us rather use the Scriptural "Assembly" or "Congregation", and renounce the word that is derived from Circe, the daughter of the Sun-deity!
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Greetings brother

I am aware of most you state here but cannot agree with all as you put it.

First take the words of Jesus here...

Matthew 16:18 (NKJV)
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

GREEK STRONG's NUMBER #1577
Greek Word: ἐκκλησία
Transliteration: ekklēsia
Phonetic Pronunciation: ek-klay-see'-ah
Root: from a compound of <G1537> and a derivative of <G2564>
Usage Notes:
English Words used in KJV:
church 115
assembly 3
[Total Count: 118]
Note the emphasis is church is ekklesia, with assembly used only 3 times out of the 118 time ekklesia is used in the KJV

from a compound of <G1537> (ek) and a derivative of <G2564> (kaleo); a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both) :- assembly, church.

Vine's Exloratory Dictionary of New Testament Words: Assembly, Congregation
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

Now this is what I read brother, taking in mind that the word Church, ekklesia, is only in the New Testament, the Jews of the Old Testament had their Temple not a church.

Jesus made clear at this very early stage... and on this rock I will build My church.

So we have, this important message from lour Lord, using the word Church, His Church, what He says He will call My Church, at this point in the New Testament.

Now we know from the Root, that word meaning are carried over form OT to NT, hence the consideration of, Assembly and Congregation, these terms being used in the OT by the Jews. We should not be surprised by Jesus using meanings that were familiar with the Jews, He was a Jew, He came to His own first.

But we should take note, I believe, that Jesus is saying to Peter, from now...

Matthew 16:18 (NKJV)
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

So this is why in the NT the word Church is used 115 times, and assembly only 3. The word Church is not in the OT, Jesus is making clear, He has moved away from the Jewish Temple, My Church, Jesus' ekklesia, is built on a sure foundation of which He is the Head.

I am aware of the other terms you state, kirk, kirke, kirche, cerce, and circus. Some of these are anglo-saxon times, the Scotish kirk dates back only around 14th century. To consider these is misleading. We need to go back to the beginning and that is when Jesus told us what He will call 'My Church' it is clear to me this is ekklesia.

Now to make clear the other word mentioned previous for church which was 'kuriakon', this word again is Not in Scripture, it was introduced by the Roman Catholic Church to name the building a church. The Greek for the word mention is actually Kryiakon, though sometimes quoted as kuriakon. It IS NOT in scripture, it was introduced by the RCC.

To be right with our Lord regarding 'His Church', we only need to look back at the Greek for the passage above, which is in the NT only and comes from the word ekklesia, no other word is used for our Lord's Church, and it is the Body of Believers, saved souls worldwide.

We must not get confused with other countries and other countries languages, we must not get confused with the Church being a building, it is Not a building, it was never called a building in scripture, we must also not confuse Church with anything in the Old Testament. The term Church our Lord uses, comes from the OT meaning of assembly or congregation, therefore an assembly of saved souls, a congregation of saved souls, these are the Church our Lord says is His.

Churches today call their build a church, people talk of my church (that is an insult to what our Lord says is 'My Church' His Church)

Churches today have assemblies or congregations true but they them selves are not the ekklesia, only the born again, only the saved souls are the ekklesia.

So taking your last comment brother, I would change it to say,

Let us rather use the Scriptural "Church" or "ekklesia", and renounce any other word. Let us follow Jesus teaching at all times.

Blessings
 
Samson2020 said:
I havn't found yet where the early congregations celebrated a DAY for the resurrection of the Lord, rather they celebrated his resurrection EVERY DAY.
As their entire hope was based on that.

It is the "church" that does the yearly DAY routine like Christmas, Easter etc... that at least draw attention to the birth and resurrection so I gotta give em that.

Ps. Anybody ever seen a rabbit lay an egg? Or reindeer fly? No wonder the children of today think the older generation are all liars and have no faith in what we say.
The cute traditions of men that caused us to lie to our children when we didn't know any better!
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This is the post of yours that I'm referring to. So - maybe - let's not continue in this. You said that I pick apart things that you say -- well. -- that Ii don't like you?! Well consider what you're saying.
 
Is it strange crimes has gone down in the “UK” but domestic crime has gone up 120% in homes under the stay home order, men being assaulted by women, women being assaulted men, most likely children against parents, parents against children. And we are having “covid-19” pandemic. Pretty soon people might pay attention about that 1 seal might be broken I was talking about and smoke signals leading into the 2 Seal that is to be broken.
 
John 14:27
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives.

John 13:34
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
 
PloughBoy said:
Is it strange crimes has gone down in the “UK” but domestic crime has gone up 120% in homes under the stay home order, men being assaulted by women, women being assaulted men, most likely children against parents, parents against children. And we are having “covid-19” pandemic. Pretty soon people might pay attention about that 1 seal might be broken I was talking about and smoke signals leading into the 2 Seal that is to be broken.
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Very true brother

It is amazing in the worldy jungle, how people get on better when they are apart.

The world is upside down and only Jesus can turn it right way up
 
Brother-Paul said:
Very true brother

It is amazing in the worldy jungle, how people get on better when they are apart.

The world is upside down and only Jesus can turn it right way up
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If this were true, then God would not be in complete control, but since he is sovereign over all it's going just as he planned. "Ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars
but let your heart be not troubled FOR THESE THINGS MUST NEEDS BE."

We must also remember that a mans enemies are those of his own household.
Could it be that the closeness is creating an environment of offenses that must be forgiven, thereby creating an environment for maturity for the few who can see it?
 
Brother-Paul said:
@PloughBoy

Regarding your comment of 'the whole world' above meaning 'the Roman Empire'.

Putting aside the situation with John in Revelation for a minute and looking at the Gospels, Jesus always referred to souls on earth as either, belonging to Father, Son and Holy Spirit, OR, belonging to sin, 'the world' and the devil.

God created the Heavens and the Earth. (Jesus was there in the beginning).

Jesus refers to the world as the none believers whose father is the devil.

I welcome your comment brother
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When i read Rev . I do not limit my mind to the Roman Empire . As it is written to those not only of the present , but of the future .

And also if we view these words in such a narrow vision . Then where scripture states that God, is God of all Mankind , or the whole world . Then we will only see Him as God to a small region and not what the Scripture truely means. All of the World
 
Dave M said:
1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Revelation 6:17
For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”
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You should add the phrase just before this . To get the whole picture . The last Seal reads , Run and hide , for the great Day of the Lord is come.

Mankind was still on the Earth. No one left . No one even saw it coming .
 
Bill said:
The last Seal reads , Run and hide , for the great Day of the Lord is come.

Mankind was still on the Earth. No one left . No one even saw it coming .
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of course people were still on earth, doesnt mean no rapture, doe not mean there is a rapture.. I lean towards a rapture and respect those who dont. I would not bet on one though

one thing is certain, even if there is a rapture or if there is not, we believers will be tested to the fullest, the events leading up to a rapture (if there is one) will test us to the fullest, we must cling to the word of God like never before, and grow as strong as possible in our walk, serving others, spreading the word, warning everyone, praying fasting.. I have such urgency on my heart now, yet piece as well, Bless you brother
 
Samson2020 said:
Matthew 24:29-31 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and
the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the
Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory: And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together his ELECT from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

For comparison:

Rev 6:9-11 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them THAT WERE SLAIN FOR THE WORD OF GOD, and for the testimony they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long O Lord, holy and true , dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to every one of them; and it was said unto them that they should rest yet for a little season, UNTIL THEIR FELLOW SERVANTS ALSO AND THEIR BRETHREN, THAT SHOULD BE KILLED AS THEY WERE SHOULD BE FULFILLED.

Rev 6:12-13 " And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal , and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair and the moon became
as blood, And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth..........."

I don't see the stars of heaven falling to the earth more than once. These two accounts are descriptions of the same event. That event brings the gathering of the elect
and it is IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION. And it is apparent from the 5th seal opening as to why this will not occur until AFTER.
THE FELLOW SERVANTS AND BRETHREN THAT HAVE THE WORD OF GOD AND A TESTIMONY SHOULD BE KILLED AS THOSE SOULS UNDER THE ALTAR WERE.

Now if you add Daniel 11:32-36 "And such as do wickedly to the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the PEOPLE THAT DO KNOW THEIR GOD SHALL BE STRONG
AND DO EXPLOITS. And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: YET THEY SHALL FALL BY THE SWORD, AND BY FLAME , BY CAPTIVITY, AND BY
SPOIL, MANY DAYS. Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. AND SOME OF THEM OF UNDERSTANDING SHALL FALL, TO TRY THEM, AND TO PURGE, AND TO MAKE THEM WHITE, EVEN TO THE TIME OF THE END; because it is yet for a time appointed."
"And the king shall do according to his will: and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every God, and shall speak marvelous things against
the God of gods........
added to show that it is during the second half of the anti Christ's seven yr period that this takes place.

ROMANS 12:1 " I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you PRESENT YOUR BODIES A LIVING SACRIFICE, HOLY, ACCEPTABLE UNTO GOD,
WHICH IS YOUR REASONABLE SERVICE.

Hope this helps settle the question in your mind as to when and why. Laid out almost entirely by scripture not opinion.

Now for opinions sake I would say that the pre-tribbers ,who have it wrong, will be the great falling away when they see the tribulation taking place and will lose what faith if any they had. These will also betray the true Christians, as they will now believe the whole thing was a lie. Example is Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy that your parents told you about but when you grew up you found out that both were a lie so can you believe anything they said that requires faith as you have not experienced it yet?

On the other hand those that do know God by experience don't care as to when they leave or how, they are just here to do their Fathers will whatever that may be.
"I come to do thy will O God" The MIND OF CHRIST.
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Try this and see if it adds to your understanding.
 
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