I read the Bible. While you memorize your teachers' doctrines.
The Trinity
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I read the Bible. While you memorize your teachers' doctrines.
William L. P.
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I really hate getting into this debate because it is so complex but I read and studied everything I could find that people used to support both sides of the arguments about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I prayed for over 20 years because I felt it had to be that one was right and one was wrong. I was told something that caused me to go back and start all over and look at everything I had read and studied already. "There is a truth in the Trinity" I tried to question the response and was told "You have what you need"
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
I have seen it argued this should read: and the "Word was a" "god" or "God" "The Bible does reference angels as gods". As I am sure you already know. Jesus is unique the Bible says he is:
Colossians 1:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
17 and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.
Before "all things" but not God the father
This means God the father created Jesus as Jesus is like his father in everything.... is he also not a God but "still in subjection to God the father" "he said the father is greater than I"
there are many verses that give status to Christ's position: Isaiah 43:10 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Matthew 11:27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
He was given "ALL power and authority" He told the apostles when you have seen me you have seen the father. In every way he did what God the Father ask of him he did nothing on his own he even said so.
HE has ALL power and authority this is saying he is like God in every way except one. You worship only one" God the Father"! I nor anyone else can fathom the vastness of God the Father: he is eternal in all directions
It was said: he knew you before the creation of the world! He has always been and will always be his knowledge has no bounds his power no limits. Yet we stumble on his creation because it exceeds our understanding.
There is little doubt Jesus and Jehovah are separate as is the Holy Spirit but there is a connection that exceeds our ability to understand.
It is more than God speaks thru the Holy Spirit or Christ they are bound together but separate. Christ COULD be tempted, but God could never be tempted by his own creation. So I will say this nether view is completely
right or wrong. One more thing one of Christs final acts will be to give everything back to the Father.
If a person really wanted to they could spend 1000's hours reading everything you can find, and on the internet there is many many verses each side quotes and there is merit in most of them. What I have learned is
not to argue this subject and just accept Gods word as it is written if it sounds in conflict with other verses it is because " I " lack the understanding, But Gods word is always correct! And if not then the belief in God is worthless,
if he cannot even maintain the integrity of his own word The Bible. And that I cannot believe. No matter how you believe it is complex and there is far more than what meets the eye. This is the constant: You worship only
one "God the Father" and salvation is thru one: Jesus Christ there is no flexibility in this. God willing this will be of help to someone.
God bless you
Bill, you know Jesus created and sustains the universe, right?
Demily
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The reason why Christ could be tempted is cause >>>flesh <<<<
The reason God (jesus spirit) couldn't be tempted is because
>>>spirit<<<<
Matthew 26:41 (KJV) Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
The reason God (jesus spirit) couldn't be tempted is because
>>>spirit<<<<
Matthew 26:41 (KJV) Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Butch5
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Where do you see the Trinity in the Bible?
Where do you see the Trinity in the Bible? The Bible does speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But, they are not one being.
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: (Deut. 6:4 KJV)
One, not three.
The apostle Paul said,
5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.1 (1 Cor. 8:5-6 KJV)
He said, "to us there is one God", the Father. He didn't say there are three.
If you'd like to see where the Trinity came from look at the creeds. The Apostles Creed says nothing of a three in one God. In 325 the Nicene Creed came into being, nothing about a three in one God. In 386 the Nicene Creed was revised and still nothing about a three in one God. However, come the fifth century or so we find the Athanasian Creed which states that there are three coequal co eternal beings that are all God. So, the first we see of this doctrine in church history is in the fifth century. Interestingly, the same writers said in the Athanasian Creed if you don't believe what they wrote you cannot be saved. Sounds like a control issue to me, Millions before them didn't believe their doctrine.
Samson2020
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Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom."
I didn't want to say it earlier but God has no beginning nor end so when he speaks of there will be no Gods formed before me nor after me there is no such place that can be found as God exists outside of time. But the verse in Isaiah speaks to the past and the future but not the present.
Ad as you can see from the verse above God calls Jesus God but it has to be read
Samson2020
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in context to see why this happened and when it happened ( at his glorification ). Jesus the Man BECAME A LIFE GIVING SPIRIT. What is the definition of a God? This is what the Father gave to hom (life within himslef) and this is exactly what he gives to us.
Demily
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I've showed you most scripture I've lived by since it was revealed, I've done what I think is best and that's all I can do. I really hope that you find out the truth and accept scripture for what it says, I'm sorry but I am done here. Have a good night
Zechariah 6:12: Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH.
This settled the question for me.
A tree is one thing. A branch is one thing. And the two are one thing.
Samson2020
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Psalms 82: 6 "I have said, ye are gods; and all of you are the children of the most high." Repeated by Jesus in John 10:34 The Hebrew word ELOHIM was interpreted as gods (plural) and fits with the saying "all of you are the children of the most high" So if God himself calls us gods shall we call him a liar? Or accept that we do not yet understand his
PLAN/WORD for ALL men yet?
The only thing that I have tried to show was the fulfillment of the WORD/PLAN by the MAN Jesus who began the reconciliation of ALL THINGS by his death for our sin.
It was a MAN Adam that brought in death and it must of necessity be a MAN that fulfilled the LAW as the LAW was written for MEN not GOD.
I think we all just need to hear you agree that Jesus created the universe.
Samson2020
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I love your adversarial approach to everything that goes over your head. It makes me chuckle.
A perfect MAN in Adam was created by God who then disobeyed God thus the condemnation.
Of necessity a perfect MAN (JESUS) had to fulfill the law by not giving into disobedience thus in came the resurrection of the dead.
This is the reversal of the curse. A man brought it in and a man had to take it away through obedience.
Is the Law written for GOD? No! it was written by GOD for man to show him what sin was and in doing sinful acts what the penalty was-DEATH
Jesus on the other hand fulfilled the Law in loving God more than the world therefore did not commit sin and the reward was life eternal. And has been given the authority to give that same life to us by the Father though we did not earn it as he, grace.
Someday God will let you know where you came from. Same place as ALL of us including Jesus, then you will understand who it was that fulfilled the words of God
when he said let there be light. Who made it happen? You would say only Jesus. But is it not true that the leader of the group is given credit for the finished product
even though others were there to help? Remember we are ALL children of the most high and God is the Father of us all. The question you need to ask yourself is who was
US before WE became man?
Jesus refers to us as brothers and friends and God as the Father of us ALL. God refers to us ALL as his children. Ponder that for awhile if you can find the patience.
Wait. You disagree that Jesus created and sustains creation?
Samson2020
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Col 1:3 "We give thanks to the GOD AND FATHER OF our Lord Jesus Christ...."
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning GOD CREATED the heaven and the earth."
Col 1:16 "For by him (Jesus) were all things created that are IN heaven and that are ON earth......ALL things were created THROUGH HIM and for HIM."
Col 1:17 "And he is before all things and in him all things consist.
Col 1:19 " For it pleased the FATHER that in HIM (JESUS) should all fullness dwell."
Col 1:20 "And by him to reconcile ALL things to himself...."
1 Co 15:27 "For he (God) has put all things under his(Jesus') feet. But when he (God) says all things are put under him (Jesus)," It is evident that he (God) who put all things under him (Jesus) is excepted.
Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God.
Jesus always referred to US as brothers and friends. YOU need to figure out who you were before WE were MAN.
John 1:11 " He came unto his own (brothers), and his own (friends) received him not." If he calls you his brother and or friend it means he knew you before he came to earth
but you did not know him by the design of God. And if you are his brother or friend then you existed with him when all things were created that are IN heaven and ON EARTH
and ALL that was created THROUGH HIM for you were with him. YOU JUST CANT REMEMBER Because it has been removed by the wisdom of God.
Hebrews 11:14 "For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly if they had BEEN MINDFUL of that country from whence they came out,
they might have had opportunity to have returned."
MINDFUL- conscious or aware of.
Hope you will read and understand.
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning GOD CREATED the heaven and the earth."
Col 1:16 "For by him (Jesus) were all things created that are IN heaven and that are ON earth......ALL things were created THROUGH HIM and for HIM."
Col 1:17 "And he is before all things and in him all things consist.
Col 1:19 " For it pleased the FATHER that in HIM (JESUS) should all fullness dwell."
Col 1:20 "And by him to reconcile ALL things to himself...."
1 Co 15:27 "For he (God) has put all things under his(Jesus') feet. But when he (God) says all things are put under him (Jesus)," It is evident that he (God) who put all things under him (Jesus) is excepted.
Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God.
Jesus always referred to US as brothers and friends. YOU need to figure out who you were before WE were MAN.
John 1:11 " He came unto his own (brothers), and his own (friends) received him not." If he calls you his brother and or friend it means he knew you before he came to earth
but you did not know him by the design of God. And if you are his brother or friend then you existed with him when all things were created that are IN heaven and ON EARTH
and ALL that was created THROUGH HIM for you were with him. YOU JUST CANT REMEMBER Because it has been removed by the wisdom of God.
Hebrews 11:14 "For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly if they had BEEN MINDFUL of that country from whence they came out,
they might have had opportunity to have returned."
MINDFUL- conscious or aware of.
Hope you will read and understand.
"The heavens are the work of your hands"
Just agree that Jesus is God the Creator, and we can start talking about what the Father is.
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