The only person that has been to Heaven is Jesus!

[PloughBoy]

“No one has ascended to Heaven except He who descended from heaven, the Son of Man” (John 3:13 ESV). Now, Heaven, is not “Paradise” they are not the same. Heaven and “Abraham Buxom ” are not the same. Because IMO, Jesus does not cause confusion, men do. When Jesus says, Heaven He means Heaven, when Jesus says; “Paradise “ He means paradise, and when He says; “Abraham Buxom ” He means Abraham Buxom. I don’t have to go to “Harvard Divinity School” or “Oxford” to understand that.
And where ever I am at, God is there, whether in the body or out of the body I’m in the presence of the Lord.
open for discussions

 

[Dave M]

No one has ascended to Heaven except He who descended from heaven, the Son of Man” (John 3:13 ESV)

It is interesting that Jesus said this before he Rose out of that tomb. Could it be he prepared the way for people to go to heaven?

Because it seems to me in the book of revelation there are people of every tribe and nation standing before the thrown of God, and I am sure the thrown of God is in heaven. There are also souls under the alter of God.
so I would have to say people go to heaven since Jesus has made the way for us. Also I would have to wonder who the elders are that are in heaven now?? I mean elders are supposed to part of the church so I would have to say they were human on earth at one time, clothed in white garment refer to saints declared righteous I think.

Revelation 6:9
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.

Revelation 4:4
Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clothed in white garments, with golden crowns on their heads.

Revelation 7-9,,13,,14
After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”

14“Sir,” I answered, “you know. ”So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


But I agree people did not go to heaven before Jesus came into the world they went to Abrams bosom.

 

[PloughBoy]

That is the future you are looking at in Revelations. Revelations are snapshots in the pass and future events. Those are Revelations. That is one of the reasons one most read the whole Bible as a whole a number of times. To see the puzzle. Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Zechariah, Malachi, Hosea. Isaiah, history of King David and Abraham he look for a city made without hands. So many riches in Old Testament that the New Testament unlocks. It is a journey that many Christians find hard to take,! They rather take the wide and easy road than the hard and narrow. But it is worth every bit. True riches that will not parish unlike worldly riches that parishes away, the fashion of the world. Go for it. Leave those bits a pieces alone march on across the beginning to the end. It will not take long.

 

[B-A-C]

2 Kings 2:11; As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven.

2 Cor 12:2; I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven.

 

[Dave M]

That is the future

does it matter?? it shows people are in heaven just as BAC post show it

 

[PloughBoy]

Ok, 2 Kings 2:11 the word heaven is sky also notice small “h”. Elisha, cannot see into “Heaven”! All of Heaven is Holy! Elisha saw him go into the sky [heaven]. In a whirlwind [tornado] a vision of chariots of fire, a vision chariots of Israel . Small letter not capital “c” or “f” or “h”. Remember in the front of all of our good bible translations, it tells us the meaning and how to read the English syntax , remember. If it is a bible translation written in English language There are rules in reading, especially in Bible Translations And God has made it possible for us. We do not need a priest. Everyone can be a “Theologian”!

 

[Dave M]

I have to wonder why the bible tells us our citizenship is in heaven if we dont go there?

Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

I wonder whear all the saints that come with Jesus on his return, come from, if they are not with him in heaven

1 Thessalonians 3:13
So that he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.

Bible Zechariah 14:5
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

 

[PloughBoy]

I am going give you snap shots here. Many Agee many don’t . Those of us who Agee with this position was not taught this by man but obtain this by reading the scriptures then we saw how we agreed

Pre- tribulation view.
There is the Rapture of the church this is not the 2nd coming because He never comes down to the Earth. The Trumpet sounds we are caught up into the sky, dead in Christ are raised 1st. Those of us who has not die are caught Up with them I will say, with them. There we will meet Him in the sky. “Those who was asleep and those who have not die on the earth. We are taken to Heaven for our “coronation”, our “celebration”. “Awards”, “crowns”, “Wedding” feast”, During this time while we are there for 7 earth years, The 144,000 are witnessing on earth, many are dying violent deaths for their believe in Jesus is Lord and the Son of God. They have to be faithful until death. The real church is in Heaven. After the 7 years, we the church comes back to earth with Jesus to Reign on the Earth for A 1000 years. Now this is called the 2nd coming, because He comes down to earth to Reign. He is the King of kings, we are then a Kingdom of kings and Priests to Reign with Jesus on the earth. Then after the 1000 years Satan with be set lose, for that Great War,, take note: now Jesus, He will rule will the “Iron Scepter” some will except Jesus in thousand year reign some will not, they will be deceived by Satan upon His return, some because they will not except Jesus reign no matter what. Jesus will and His army will cast that false prophet, the Devil, demons , and Hell into the lake fire. Then the “Great White Throne” judgement. Where the dead , great and small, male and female will be awaken to be judge. those are the books that will be open. And if their names are not written in “THE BOOK” in which it will not be. They will cast into the lake of Fire. The universe will be purified.. The whole “Cosmos”. All “galaxies” Then God will make all things brand new and we will Reign with Jesus the “Universe”. “ This is the inheritance of the Saint”. Forever and ever, and ever, we will be like God, we will never die. I giving you snapshorts

 

[Hekuran]

I have to wonder why the bible tells us our citizenship is in heaven if we dont go there?

Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

It wouldn't have seemed odd to the people in Philippi. It was a Roman colony, so there were many Roman citizens - yet very few of them would have visited Rome. Citizenship is about allegiance and identity not about location.

The Thessalonians passage - the fifth chapter tells us where the saints who have died are. They will rise from their graves at Christ's appearance.

 

[Dave M]

It wouldn't have seemed odd to the people in Philippi. It was a Roman colony, so there were many Roman citizens - very few of them would have visited Rome. Citizenship is about allegiance and identity not about location.

how would you explain the souls under the altar? surely the location of the alter is heaven

 

[Dave M]

2Cor. 5:8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

at home with the lord I would have to say is heaven

 

[PloughBoy]

Snap shorts of the future. You have the church, in which is a bad name I think, because it is “circe” the word church should be “congregation”. The congregation of the Lord. The Rapture is Old Testament saints and New Testament saints. “These are the “congregation “of the Lord. There will be people dying during the 7 year great tribulation.. there will be dying during the thousand year reign. We read our bibles to know GoD, not to know things, in return God reveals HIS truth to us. Are we in Love with God or are we in love with knowing more than the next man. We study to show our selves approve unto to God. He knows our intentions, He knows whether we play “leap frog” in His Word and “skip rope” with words we don’t understand. We only fool ourselves. When we let some so called pastor or so called biblical teacher, chew the word then spit it out in the mud and trample it under their feet then we drink the muddy water. I believe most christians have not even read (Ezekiel 34)! Chapter. If you have not shame on you. God put it there for you, you will find Jesus there, The Shepherd of your soul. “Faithful are the wounds of a friend” Please Ezekiel 34. Good translation. ESV, ASV,

 

[Dave M]

whear do you think you go when you die?? do you think we soul sleep?

 

[Dave M]

for the believer in Jesus Christ, the Bible tells us that after death believers’ souls/spirits are taken to heaven, because their sins are forgiven by having received Christ as Savior (John 3:16, 18, 36). For believers, death is to be “away from the body and at home with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). However, passages such as 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 describe believers being resurrected and given glorified bodies. If believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, what is the purpose of this resurrection? It seems that while the souls/spirits of believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, the physical body remains in the grave “sleeping.” At the resurrection of believers, the physical body is resurrected, glorified, and then reunited with the soul/spirit. This reunited and glorified body-soul-spirit will be the possession of believers for eternity in the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21-22).

Second, for those who do not receive Jesus Christ as Savior, death means everlasting punishment. However, similar to the destiny of believers, unbelievers also seem to be sent immediately to a temporary holding place, to await their final resurrection, judgment, and eternal destiny. Luke 16:22-23 describes a rich man being tormented immediately after death. Revelation 20:11-15 describes all the unbelieving dead being resurrected, judged at the great white throne, and then being cast into the lake of fire. Unbelievers, then, are not sent to hell (the lake of fire) immediately after death, but rather are in a temporary realm of judgment and condemnation. However, even though unbelievers are not instantly sent to the lake of fire, their immediate fate after death is not a pleasant one. The rich man cried out, “I am in agony in this fire” (Luke 16:24).

Therefore, after death, a person resides in a “temporary” heaven or hell. After this temporary realm, at the final resurrection, a person’s eternal destiny will not change. The precise “location” of that eternal destiny is what changes. Believers will ultimately be granted entrance into the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Unbelievers will ultimately be sent to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not they had trusted Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Matthew 25:46; John 3:36).

What happens after death? | GotQuestions.org

What happens after death? What happens when a person / someone dies? Where does your soul go when you die? Where do Christians / believers / unbelievers go when they die?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Dave M]

Citizenship is about allegiance and identity not about location.

actually heaven is a place, and our allegiance and identity is in Jesus Christ, very important to understand that

 

[PloughBoy]

You all over the place. There is no where in the bible that it says explicitly when you die you go straight to Heaven. No where. When you say soul sleep, there are many different types of interpretation on soul sleep. In which I will not go there. Jesus said explicitly that: “no one has ascended into Heaven, except he who descended from from Heaven, the Son of Man” (John 3: 13). How plain is that. Jesus did not lie, He is the truth.
So “Lazarus “ went to heaven when he died and stayed there for 3 days and then he came back.? Jesus when He died, did He also go to heaven and stay there for 3 days then He came back here? Through out the Bible it says they went to sleep. David went to sleep, Daniel went to sleep....etc. And they did not sleep in the ground in their bodies. They went to sleep in God! Call it, Abraham buxom call it paradise. But when that day comes they will awaken out of their sleep. In a resurrected body. God is always with us. He will never leave us , the Bible says never leave us alone, if this body dies, it dies not us, we have eternal Life, Jesus said :if you believe in me you will never die, believeth thou this? You only have gone to sleep in the arms of God, with sweet dreams. Until the alarm clock sounds, that is when the trumpet sounds. Now is that good news.

 

[Hekuran]

actually heaven is a place, and our allegiance and identity is in Jesus Christ, very important to understand that

I didn't write very clearly. It was possible to be a perfect Roman citizen and never leave Philippi. What mattered was to obey Roman laws and give allegiance to Caesar. In the same way I can be a citizen of heaven without going beyond London.

 

[Hekuran]

I'm not sure what happens between death and the final resurrection. The Bible talks of 'sleeping', and also Paradise, at home with the Lord or Abraham's bosom.

Whichever, my hope is in being raised in glory.

 

[Dave M]

let us not forget about the two witnesses in revelation. they are killed and raised from the dead, and in a whirlwind taken to heaven

Revelation 11:12
Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them.

Also let us not forget the apostle Paul went to heaven

2 Corinthians 12:2
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows.

 

[PloughBoy]

Yes and how long were they dead? Since they were dead for those days where were they? They were sleep.