Who are we worshipping?

[PloughBoy]

Adam was cast out because of disobedience. After that 2000 years man was left with his own choices and failed.
Then God chose one man; His descendants would be like the stars in the sky. They would be blessed; if we bless them God will bless us if we curse him , God will curse us.
Jesus descended from the from David and will inherit the Kingdom for ever.

Samuel 7:
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

Everyone walked in the darkness especially in the Old Testament “they sat in darkness”. Until Jesus came, they who sat in darkness saw a great light. Many things were hidden in the old, Then He came and shown a light upon the old. And great was that light!

 

[Hekuran]

I've never come across anyone who worships a church. Money, yes. Success, yes. Self-fulfillment or recognition, yes. Power, certainly. But never anyone who worships the church. Where did you come across it?

 

[rhern53]

The reason, they worship a institutional church, if they worship God, they would speak the same thing on different levels according to their obedience to the Word of God.❤ Because sin blinds us to the truth of Gods Word.

not necessarily so, it is all in God's Hands. We must worship i spirit and in truth.
the worldly understand things of the world but cannot understand the things of God.
Those filled with the spirit try to follow spiritual things but when they are taught by a confused church they cannot be liable for the error. Church traditions tend to worship within man made guideline and therefore place barrier, placing themselves in a box. they stifle the Holy Spirit from opening their eyes: "many will come to me saying Lord, Lord did I not do this or that in your name? The Lord will say away from me you doer of iniquity, I never knew you."
"Test all thing and hold fast to that which is good." you say this very well: be like The Bereans.

our concern is finding truth. Every thing we need to know are already written, Inspired by God. do not listen to those who will twist or spin the Word .
I am not perfect question my answers, force me to give you scriptural passages.

Thank You Lord Jesus

 

[rhern53]

Everyone walked in the darkness especially in the Old Testament “they sat in darkness”. Until Jesus came, they who sat in darkness saw a great light. Many things were hidden in the old, Then He came and shown a light upon the old. And great was that light!❤

Yes this is so true. there is so much mystery in scripture, we are forced to dig hard and deep.
Jesus would not give anyone the Game plan as in the book of Luke 9:
Luke 9:45 King James Version (KJV)
45 But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.

It was Hid from them, Why????

Luke 18:
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

 

[PloughBoy]

I've never come across anyone who worships a church. Money, yes. Success, yes. Self-fulfillment or recognition, yes. Power, certainly. But never anyone who worships the church. Where did you come across it?

Idols, comes in all forms. And God will destroy all idols! You remember AD 70. People worship institutions all the time. Jesus said upon this Rock I will build my “congregation” He did not say “Circe” [church]. He said: “congregation”. Just speaking the true. Watch people they always say, my church this, my church that, my pastor this, my pastor that, come here my pastor, come to my church. If they talked about Jesus that much in the world and replace the word church with Jesus, It would be more living sacrifices. And Sanctification, which is the will of God, for our reasonable service.

 

[Sue D.]

Well , the idea is that people will hear about Jesus Christ in their church from their pastor. from God's Word.

Looking at Matthew 16:16 - 18 vs 18 "'on this rock I will build My church..... " the Rock being the fact that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God. " (NKJV)

 

[PloughBoy]

But the word church never came from the lips of Jesus, He said “congregation”. You remember you said the Holy Scriptures” has not been corrupted. I agree! “But translations have”!

 

[Sue D.]

Yes this is so true. there is so much mystery in scripture, we are forced to dig hard and deep.
Jesus would not give anyone the Game plan as in the book of Luke 9:
Luke 9:45 King James Version (KJV)
45 But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.

It was Hid from them, Why????

Luke 18:
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

God's Word isn't really all That hard to understand. The Gospel unto salvation is simple enough for even a child to understand.

It's Also true that the mind of God is infinite and we are finite human beings. Which means that no one will ever understand all of God's Word., but much of God's Word is able to be understood.

Some years ago there was a pastor at a church we'd gone to. One Sunday morning he was encouraging everyone To read And Study their Bibles at home. Then he proceeded to name all the Bible helps that would be useful.
Well -- he knew that most of the people had jobs and family. Not a whole lot of time To do that much Bible study. Then he suggested that the church library had those various study books available. Well -- most people don't really have time To come to the church at other times than the church services. He was -- in effect -- saying that since he, as pastor Does have the time To study. That why not simply listen to him when he preaches and take notes.

That really soured me on that pastor. But we'd Also noticed that 'over time' he wasn't really preaching doctrine. It's very possible to teach / preach God's Word and never touch on doctrine.

Eventually we left that church.

 

[Sue D.]

But the word church never came from the lips of Jesus, He said “congregation”. You remember you said the Holy Scriptures” has not been corrupted. I agree! “But translations have”!

So you're saying that even the NKJV has been corrupted? The Matthew 16 passage -- it's all in Red Lettering -- meaning the very words of Jesus Christ were being spoken. It's Jesus who was answering them using the word "church".

A version is not the same as a translation. And besides -- it was the words of Jesus being read.

 

[rhern53]

But the word church never came from the lips of Jesus, He said “congregation”. You remember you said the Holy Scriptures” has not been corrupted. I agree! “But translations have”!

Mr. PloughBoy please understand Jesus was talking about His Chosen people, not a building.


The word church take from the Greek word ekklesia which means : a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly.


This has nothing to do with a building.


What is important is that Jesus was talking about the people from all over the world who are call out of the world one by one and separated from the world to seek the Lord and to spend eternity with Him.


Church buildings are full of all kinds of people. It is the individuals (personal relationship) of whom only God spiritually recognizes as His son or daughter. More that likely there are many in the church groups who are not spiritually filled.

ekklesia are all the people, the called out of the world Paul called it the body of Christ, Jesus is the head we are the body

 

[PloughBoy]

I understand fully what the word “Ekkelesia” means. I just want you to look at the word “church” it was “high Jack” it never came from the word “Ekklesia” ! We understand the meaning, but the word “church” came from the word “Circe” and Paul use it in Acts, a couple of times. It always refer to pagan Greek Gods and Goddess temples. I ‘m just say go deeper into the word, “circe” and church. And you go deeper keep going deeper the means is there. You will see it plainly. Be a Berean. Then you can see how “Constantine” started to have Christian services in pagan “Circe” [churches] and decide to break up trouble disputes, concerning what day to have church services, He decide The SUN DAY. I’m not lying ! I been studying this stuff for over forty years, dithering it out myself, not liking many of things but what must a man do. I Agee with what the meaning of “ekklesia” but word “church” that is a whole bags of worms.

 

[Sue D.]

The New Testament church started meeting on the Lord's Day --Sunday -- to honor the day that Jesus Christ rose bodily from the dead.

Let's stick with the word "ekklesia"

In the Old Testament -- Genesis -- since God rested from the 6 days of creation on Saturday -- the Sabboth -- we are to keep it holy. And that was fine -- then Jesus Christ rose from the dead -- very early the 1st day of the week. Sunday -- the Lords' Day. Now -- those who want to continue worshiping on Saturday / Sabboth -- Fine. Just so it isn't done as a 'good work' to help keep our salvation. There are those who feel that keeping the Ten Commandments is equal to their salvation.

The rest of us want to honor the resurrection of Jesus Christ. On Sunday.

There Were pagan worship places for the pagan gods and godesses. Moloch was one and Artimaus was another one. They were Not our God Almighty.

There really doesn't need to be any 'bags of worms'.

 

[rhern53]

I understand fully what the word “Ekkelesia” means. I just want you to look at the word “church” it was “high Jack” it never came from the word “Ekklesia” ! We understand the meaning, but the word “church” came from the word “Circe” and Paul use it in Acts, a couple of times. It always refer to pagan Greek Gods and Goddess temples. I ‘m just say go deeper into the word, “circe” and church. And you go deeper keep going deeper the means is there. You will see it plainly. Be a Berean. Then you can see how “Constantine” started to have Christian services in pagan “Circe” [churches] and decide to break up trouble disputes, concerning what day to have church services, He decide The SUN DAY. I’m not lying ! I been studying this stuff for over forty years, dithering it out myself, not liking many of things but what must a man do. I Agee with what the meaning of “ekklesia” but word “church” that is a whole bags of worms.

The first day of the week being Sunday is the day the Lord was raised from the dead. A miraculous day of celebration!! this should be the we remember The Lord.
it does not matter what anybody says.
why waste your time with Constantine. Satan uses any and all devices to lead us astray. why humor the devil?

it's what is in your heart that counts. when we start looking into evil or satanic thoughts it becomes a problem. Jesus said not to do such things.

 

[rhern53]

The New Testament church started meeting on the Lord's Day --Sunday -- to honor the day that Jesus Christ rose bodily from the dead.

Let's stick with the word "ekklesia"

In the Old Testament -- Genesis -- since God rested from the 6 days of creation on Saturday -- the Sabboth -- we are to keep it holy. And that was fine -- then Jesus Christ rose from the dead -- very early the 1st day of the week. Sunday -- the Lords' Day. Now -- those who want to continue worshiping on Saturday / Sabboth -- Fine. Just so it isn't done as a 'good work' to help keep our salvation. There are those who feel that keeping the Ten Commandments is equal to their salvation.

The rest of us want to honor the resurrection of Jesus Christ. On Sunday.

There Were pagan worship places for the pagan gods and godesses. Moloch was one and Artimaus was another one. They were Not our God Almighty.

There really doesn't need to be any 'bags of worms'.

with all due respect, the ten commandments will not save anyone:
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[PloughBoy]

The first day of the week being Sunday is the day the Lord was raised from the dead. A miraculous day of celebration!! this should be the we remember The Lord.
it does not matter what anybody says.
why waste your time with Constantine. Satan uses any and all devices to lead us astray. why humor the devil?

it's what is in your heart that counts. when we start looking into evil or satanic thoughts it becomes a problem. Jesus said not to do such things.

my God said: be wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove. “ Study to show your

The first day of the week being Sunday is the day the Lord was raised from the dead. A miraculous day of celebration!! this should be the we remember The Lord.
it does not matter what anybody says.
why waste your time with Constantine. Satan uses any and all devices to lead us astray. why humor the devil?

it's what is in your heart that counts. when we start looking into evil or satanic thoughts it becomes a problem. Jesus said not to do such things.

The Word of God says: Study to show Yourself “Approved unto God.....ff. and it also says: Love the LORD thy God with all of thy MIND and strength....ff as well.... Right?

 

[PloughBoy]

You can stick your heart out there without your mind if you want too, since you have a free will!

 

[rhern53]

when you say free will, it sound like you are saying I don't need anyone to tell me what I can or cannot do.

when someone truly submits to the Lord things happen, doors open.

Ask and it shall be given, seek and ye shall find, knock and the door will be open.

are you steadfast free will or do you submit wholly to the Lord?

 

[PloughBoy]

So you're saying that even the NKJV has been corrupted? The Matthew 16 passage -- it's all in Red Lettering -- meaning the very words of Jesus Christ were being spoken. It's Jesus who was answering them using the word "church".

A version is not the same as a translation. And besides -- it was the words of Jesus being read.

Some words like church was a replacement for a reason. It all had something to do with leadership and control of the body of believers, mainly the Roman Catholic Church. Get it church. The real word Jesus said: my “Congregation” and the gates of hell will not prevail. King James regained also his authority over the church. At one time the church had the authority over the King. By the new translation he regain his authority. Men like power, just like Satan.

 

[rhern53]

You can stick your heart out there without your mind if you want too, since you have a free will!❤

when you say free will, it sound like you are saying I don't need anyone to tell me what I can or cannot do.

when someone truly submits to the Lord things happen, doors open.

Ask and it shall be given, seek and ye shall find, knock and the door will be open.

are you steadfast free will or do you submit wholly to the Lord?

 

[PloughBoy]

when you say free will, it sound like you are saying I don't need anyone to tell me what I can or cannot do.

when someone truly submits to the Lord things happen, doors open.

Ask and it shall be given, seek and ye shall find, knock and the door will be open.

are you steadfast free will or do you submit wholly to the Lord?

I am sorry when I used the term “free will” It had a little irony in there. Because of the doctrine of free will controversy.