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Predestined?

Hi Enxu -- the book of Enoch was deleted because of that particular teaching did not agree with the rest of Scripture. Messiah was Jesus Christ in the flesh AND was God in His divinity. He Had to be in order to provide for our salvation.

You have shared that you have experienced 1st hand, God's forgiveness. God has done a wonderous work in your life. Delivered you and your family.

But -- you Also need to recognize that Jesus Christ being both human AND divine while here on earth is not only True, but Necessary.
Also I have in my spirit a feeling that this heresy of Jesus being both Spirit and Man (dual natures) during His earthly ministry is a sinister attempt by the antichrist spirit to prepare the church to be deceived and to receive the false Messiah, the final Antichrist, who will indeed be both spirit and flesh in his nature. How is this possible?

Look at the book of Jude, which I will now quote:

Jude 1:14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones,

Here Jude mentions Enoch and a prophesy Enoch made. Our current Bible does not contain any texts about Enoch’s prophesy, but there is a book called the Book of Enoch, which is exactly the book that Jude quoted in his epistle.

What is written inside the book of Enoch? One major theme is about fallen angels having sexual intercourse with human women and begetting offsprings with both spirit and flesh in their nature. This is also mentioned in the Book of Genesis:

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth at that time (and also immediately afterward), when those divine beings were having sexual relations with those human women, who gave birth to children for them. These children became the heroes and legendary figures of ancient times.

In the Old Testament, sons of God referred only to angelic beings because no human being was born again in the Spirit at that time so no human being can be called sons of God. By the accounts of both Genesis and the book of Enoch, there was an event in times when women had sexual intercourse with spirit beings and begat offsprings with both spirit and flesh natures (dual natures). But this dual nature of both spirit and flesh is against the very order of God. That is why only Noah and his family was saved and the rest was destroyed by the flood.

If you study again the very first time God spoke about the enmity between the woman and the serpent (Satan), what did God say?

Genesis 3:5 I will put hostility between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will strike your head, and you will strike his heel.

This means there will be two offsprings, one offspring of woman (flesh) and one offspring of Satan (dual nature of flesh and spirit). Satan’s offspring was to be born directly from him in a fleshly form because this fallen angel will have sexual intercourse with a woman just like the fallen angels did in the time of Genesis. Jesus, the seed of a woman was therefore offspring of flesh and the seed of Satan is the offspring of dual natures of flesh and spirit.

This is why the book of Enoch is hidden from the church, because were it to be taught in the churches the sinister plot of Satan wanting to deceive mankind (including the church) with a dual natured spirit-flesh Messiah would be exposed!

So by teaching the damnable heresy that Jesus was both flesh and spirit as a Man, the church is being prepared to be deceived by the seed of Satan, who will claim himself to be God and Messiah, and this man of perdition will indeed be both flesh and spirit!

I'm familiar with the book of Enoch. I don't think it's legit. I believe the sons of God are men. The book of Enoch was likely written a few hundred years before Christ. It's also possible that Jude is quoting from some other document and that the Book of Enoch also quotes from that document. We don't know.
 
It was deleted from the Canon for a Reason. Probably because it gives false information.
 
Believers are immediately brought into the Lord's presence at death. Unbelievers are taken and put into hades to await judgment.

Luk 23:42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
Luk 23:43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Jesus told the thief on the cross next to him that he would be with him in "paradise" that day! His body surely could not go where his spirit could!

Act 7:58 Then they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul.
Act 7:59 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”

Stephen saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God while being stoned and said, "...Lord Jesus, receive my spirit...” He did NOT say receive my body!!

I think I already addressed these. Concerning the thief, there is no punctuation in the original texts. It's added by the translators and they put it where they believe it goes. I believe they have the comma in the wrong place.

43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." (Lk. 23:43 NKJ)
And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise."

Notice I moved the comma from before the word today to after it. The sentence now has a completely different meaning. No longer does it indicate that they would be in Paradise that day. Remember, the thief wanted to be remembered in the kingdom. So, either Paradise refers to the Kingdom or Jesus didn't answer his request. Jesus wasn't in the kingdom that day.

Regarding Stephen, yes he called out, Lord Jesus, receive my breath. The breath of life goes back to God at death.
 
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I think I already addressed these. Concerning the thief, there is no punctuation in the original texts. It's added by the translators and they put it where they believe it goes. I believe they have the comma in the wrong place.

43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." (Lk. 23:43 NKJ)
And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise."

Notice I moved the comma from before the word today to after it. The sentence now has a completely different meaning. No longer does it indicate that they would be in Paradise that day. Remember, the thief wanted to be remembered in the kingdom. So, either Paradise refers to the Kingdom or Jesus didn't answer his request. Jesus wasn't in the kingdom that day.

Regarding Stephen, yes he called out, Lord Jesus, receive my breath of life. The breath of life goes back to God at death.

the book of Hagi talks about God stirring up peoples spirits,

Haggai 1:14
So the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua son of Jozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of the whole remnant of the people. They came and began to work on the house of the LORD Almighty, their God,
 
the book of Hagi talks about God stirring up peoples spirits,

Haggai 1:14
So the LORD stirred up the spirit of Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and the spirit of Joshua son of Jozadak, the high priest, and the spirit of the whole remnant of the people. They came and began to work on the house of the LORD Almighty, their God,
It does. The word there is ruach, which means wind. The translators apparently think it's a figure of speech. What is the figure?
 
It does. The word there is ruach, which means wind. The translators apparently think it's a figure of speech. What is the figure?

ruach: breath, wind, spirit
Original Word: רוּחַ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: ruach
Phonetic Spelling: (roo'-akh)
Definition: breath, wind, spirit
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from an unused word
Definition
breath, wind, spirit
 
ruach: breath, wind, spirit
Original Word: רוּחַ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: ruach
Phonetic Spelling: (roo'-akh)
Definition: breath, wind, spirit
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from an unused word
Definition
breath, wind, spirit
Spirit is a figurative usage. What's the figure.
 
Notice I moved the comma from before the word today to after it. The sentence now has a completely different meaning.
The problem is "you" moved the "coma"! I checked 35 different translations, and none of them move the coma. The "literal" translation says...

Luk 23:43 and Jesus said to him, 'Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou shalt be in the paradise.' (YLT)

Who should I trust you or hundreds of scholars?

Luk 23:42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
Luk 23:43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
 
The problem is "you" moved the "coma"! I checked 35 different translations, and none of them move the coma. The "literal" translation says...

Luk 23:43 and Jesus said to him, 'Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou shalt be in the paradise.' (YLT)

Who should I trust you or hundreds of scholars?

Luk 23:42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
Luk 23:43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
It's not a problem. As I said, there is no punctuation in the original text. It's simply up to the translator. If all of those translators believe that man is a spirit and goes to Heaven when he dies, where do you think they're going to put the comma? They're going to put it where they "believe" it should be. However, it's strictly their opinion. Their placement of the comma contradicts other passages of Scripture. We know from Scripture that Jesus was laid in the tomb later that day so He wasn't in Paradise. Also, as I said, the thief wanted to be remembered in Jesus' kingdom. If paradise isn't in the Kingdom then Jesus didn't answer his request. However, we know that Jesus did answer his request. Jesus told one of the churches in Revelation that to the overcomer He would give to eat from the Tree of Life which is in the Paradise of God.

7 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God."' (Rev. 2:7 NKJ)

Paradise isn't some place in the earth. There's nothing in Scripture that indicates that there is a paradise, garden, inside the earth. That idea comes from people conflating this event with the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. People say that Paradise is Abraham's bosom. The Scriptures don't indicate that it's just people conflating passages.

In addition to all of that, there's nothing in the passage of the thief that says they were alive later that day. We know that both Jesus and the thief were crucified and died. Even if we grant that they went to Paradise that day, nothing in the passage says they were alive.
 
We know from Scripture that Jesus was laid in the tomb later that day so He wasn't in Paradise.
People who die physically don't wait to be buried before they are either brought instantly into God presence or hades.
 
7 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God."' (Rev. 2:7 NKJ)
When does a person overcome? At the end of their life, or in this life?

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Where did God translate every single overcomer to?

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
 
People who die physically don't wait to be buried before they are either brought instantly into God presence or hades.
People who die physically are dead. The breath returns to God and the body to the dust, or the grave, Hades. No one goes to the presence of God.
 
People who die physically are dead. The breath returns to God and the body to the dust, or the grave, Hades. No one goes to the presence of God.
I am so sorry about your hopelessness in this life.

If I thought and believed like you, I would not be a very happy camper! Neither would be anyone else!
 
When does a person overcome? At the end of their life, or in this life?

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Where did God translate every single overcomer to?

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion. The only point in my posting that passage was to show that Paradise is in the Kingdom. I wasn't referring to the overcomers.
 
Since that's what you want to believe -- apparently you're free To believe it.
 
I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion. The only point in my posting that passage was to show that Paradise is in the Kingdom. I wasn't referring to the overcomers.
Only "overcomers" are in the Kingdom of God where the tree of life is!!

Pro 3:13 O the happiness of a man who hath found wisdom, And of a man who bringeth forth understanding.
Pro 3:14 For better is her merchandise Than the merchandise of silver, And than gold—her increase.
Pro 3:15 Precious she is above rubies, And all thy pleasures are not comparable to her.
Pro 3:16 Length of days is in her right hand, In her left are wealth and honour.
Pro 3:17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, And all her paths are peace.
Pro 3:18 A tree of life she is to those laying hold on her, And whoso is retaining her is happy.

Pro 15:4 A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Pro 15:4 A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.

Pro 13:12 Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.

The word, "right" means, "to have authority, or power to do something"
 
I am so sorry about your hopelessness in this is life.

If I thought and believed like you, I would not be a very happy camper! Neither would be anyone else!
Why? My understanding of the Scriptures all fits together. I used to believe similar to what you believe. It couldn't make sense out of what the Scriptures said because it seemed there always verses that didn't fit with what I believed, or worse flatly refuted it. I don't have that problem any more. It's actually quite refreshing. Likewise it gives me a greater appreciation for what God has done. It gives me a greater appreciation for what Christ has done.

I've seen so many Christians looking lost when someone asked them what will we do in Heaven? They can't answer the question because they don't know. They don't know because the Bible doesn't say. The Bible doesn't say because people don't go there. I don't have that problem anymore. Did God choose who would be saved? If so, was it anything man does, or did He look down through the corridors of time and see what everyone would choose? I don't have that problem anymore. Hey, can you explain the Trinity to me? Ummm. I don't have that problem anymore. Can you tell me why people would burn for eternity when they only sin for a little while? I don't have that problem anymore.

Let me ask you question. If man is a spirit, why can't people communicate with someone who is in a coma? A coma would affect the body not the spirit so why can't anyone communicate with that person?
 
Only "overcomers" are in the Kingdom of God where the tree of life is!!

Pro 3:13 O the happiness of a man who hath found wisdom, And of a man who bringeth forth understanding.
Pro 3:14 For better is her merchandise Than the merchandise of silver, And than gold—her increase.
Pro 3:15 Precious she is above rubies, And all thy pleasures are not comparable to her.
Pro 3:16 Length of days is in her right hand, In her left are wealth and honour.
Pro 3:17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, And all her paths are peace.
Pro 3:18 A tree of life she is to those laying hold on her, And whoso is retaining her is happy.

Pro 15:4 A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Pro 15:4 A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.

Pro 13:12 Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the desire cometh, it is a tree of life.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates.

Notice the difference between "a" and "the". They're two articles. A is indefinite and the is the definite article. The definite article "the" refers to a specific Tree. A refers to any tree. The tree of life is the one that was in the Paradise of Eden, yep Eden is a Paradise. Jesus said that He'd give to eat of it, to those who overcome. So, once again we see the Paradise of Eden.
 
If you want to understand the "trinity" then you have to ask God himself to show you. You will never ever learn it on your own!!
That was point. So many things people can't explain. It's because they're not there.
 
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